Unauthorized suite

[Gumby]

Say you have an unauthorized suite. What are the pros and cons to having it recognized by the city?

Thanks!

Edit: Why would anyone in their right mind want to turn it into a legal suite?

Or what risks do I run if I choose to continue renting out an unauthorized suite?

[Sky_High]

There's pro's?

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by Sky_High

There's pro's?

Haha good point...

[TheNewGirl]

You can use a legal suite as reported income for your mortgage or other loans/credit.

Also the land lord has more protection with a legal suite.

You can get tax write offs on the your improvements/repairs on the suite.

Cons wise you have to pay tax on the income.

As a renter it doesn't matter really, you're protection extends under the tenancy act regardless.

[TRDood]

Does the landlord gets insured under house insurance if the tenant burns down the house? Liability issues?

[jACEDesignsLtd]

do people report to the City about unauthorized suites?

[ruthless]

Originally Posted by jACE

do people report to the City about unauthorized suites?

In some instances yes...

In our neighbourhood there were two new houses being built and I guess someone reported them. Then a city bylaw officer came and checked every house for a suite...and how many suites each had etc.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by jACE

do people report to the City about unauthorized suites?

If your tenants caused problems (too noisy, make a mess, take up all the parking, etc) and your neighbours weren't forgiving, they could complain to the city.

[quasi]

At the end of the day people are going to do what they want and they can't really police it unless they want to hire people who do nothing but enforce it. I will say though it does fuck up neighborhoods. There isn't enough parking, people aren't paying there fair share for garbage collection or contributing enough in taxes to the schools among other things. This of course doesn't help the overcrowding because they can't properly judge how many people live in an area. Personally I'd love to see them crack down on them and have home owners with suites pay more property taxes to offset the extra burden they're putting on the neighborhood and city but it will never happen so do what works best for you I guess.

[melloman]

My neighbour has rented out his entire house and sectioned it off into 3 suites.. it wasn't bad until the new 2 downstairs tenants.. pretty much I'm calling the city once the upstair neighbour moves out in June. Way too annoying and loud.

[Glove]

I cant stand people who do nothing but complain to the city all day,

we were doing reno's on my house and someone fuckin complained, I dont even know why, everything we were doing was legal.

I wish I fucking knew who it was, mind your own god damned business.

IMO anyone who complains to the city should need to put it in writing and sign it, and it should become public record. Way too many people at home with nothing better to do, they should atleast be accountable for their complaints.

[melloman]

Depends on time and place.

And if you have everything legally, doing everything the legal way, there shouldn't be a problem with the city anyways.

[ruthless]

Originally Posted by Glove

I cant stand people who do nothing but complain to the city all day,

we were doing reno's on my house and someone fuckin complained, I dont even know why, everything we were doing was legal.

I wish I fucking knew who it was, mind your own god damned business.

IMO anyone who complains to the city should need to put it in writing and sign it, and it should become public record. Way too many people at home with nothing better to do, they should atleast be accountable for their complaints.

Originally Posted by melloman

Depends on time and place.

And if you have everything legally, doing everything the legal way, there shouldn't be a problem with the city anyways.

+1 mello

If everything is by the book, then the neighbors can complain all they want...

but usually for small reno's people don't get permits so...

[Gumby]

I came across some info from Leah Coss' blog. She's a mortgage planner in Vancouver. This entry, from Sep 19, 2011, talks about unauthorized/illegal suites, and here's the gist of it:

The only difference between having an authorized and an unauthorized suite is simply that you’re paying higher property taxes. Now, a lot of you are going, ” I’m not going to pay higher property taxes.” Well, you know what? You need to because, as taxpayers, if you don’t pay for them, the rest of us are.

Why the city wants you to pay higher taxes is because you have two separate dwellings, which means two separate families producing twice the amount of garbage. Now the garbage service is having to work twice as hard, and you’re not paying for that. The same with water, things of that nature, that you pay to the city part of your taxes. But, by having two separate dwellings, you need to be paying more. Hopefully, that makes sense to you. In a lot of cases, if the city’s going to come by and do a checkup on your suite, and you don’t want that suite getting ripped out, then, guess what? You’re going to have to pay those higher property taxes.

But for some cities, for example Vancouver, there are somewhat a few more hoops that you’re going to need to jump through. For example, if you’re going to have a separate living dwelling in the basement or as a duplex or something like that, you’re going to need a certain amount of sprinklers in certain places. You’re going to need windows. You’re going to need a separate entrance and different requirements like that. Definitely go to your city and see what other requirements there are there.

But if the city does find out that you have an unauthorized suite, then they can make it so that you have to rip it out. What are they going to do to make you rip it out? The kitchen. [chuckles] Without a kitchen in there, a basement suite is going to be hard to rent out.

To avoid this altogether, or to at least take the steps of finding out what you need to do to make it authorized, just go to your city. Find out what needs to happen. Are there sprinkler requirements, window requirements? How much more of property taxes would you have to pay? Because if they do inspect, you’re going to have to rip it out anyway. If you rely on that income, that could put you into big, big trouble. As well, it’s important to know that not all lenders, such as Scotiabank and such, will lend on homes with unauthorized suites. They don’t want anything to do with them if you’re relying on that money in the basement suite.

[Selanne_200]

As a home owner with a illegal suite before and got checked by the city because of a complaint (which is stupid because tenants were quite, they only parked in front of my house, never party, no noise), the cost of taking out the kitchen is quite costly. You have to cut the range wire back i believe 6 inches into the wall, breaker for the stove taken out and a dummy breaker put in, your kitchen sink's waterline would have to be cut off, plumbing taking out and capped and sealed, hood fan taken out etc. Not to mention, some of the work requires a city permit so you can't even do it yourself.
Yes you have to pay higher property tax for a legal secondary suite, but as others mention, there are benefits to it, be glad that city of vancouver actually allows a secondary suite, you can't have one in burnaby to rent out even if you're willing to pay.

[melloman]

Originally Posted by Selanne_200

You can't have one in burnaby to rent out even if you're willing to pay.

Didn't know this. Thanks.
Currently living in Burnaby with my dickhead basement suite neighbours and the whole house is technically illegal. It'll be fun to see him fined and evicted.

[Gumby]

Guess I should confess that I'm interested in buying a house with an unauthorized basement suite. I would be willing to buy it IF I can successfully get a permit for it. If there are code violations requiring expensive modifications, I want to find out before buying it.

Given that the suite is currently illegally rented out, the seller will tell me to GTFO if I submit an offer "subject to an inspection by a city bylaw officer"!

So, any advice?

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by melloman

Didn't know this. Thanks.
Currently living in Burnaby with my dickhead basement suite neighbours and the whole house is technically illegal. It'll be fun to see him fined and evicted.

i can picture your face during the process...something like this->

[surreyjack604]

I hate when people rent out both basements and fuck parking up. faggots.

[melloman]

Originally Posted by Gumby

Guess I should confess that I'm interested in buying a house with an unauthorized basement suite. I would be willing to buy it IF I can successfully get a permit for it. If there are code violations requiring expensive modifications, I want to find out before buying it.

Given that the suite is currently illegally rented out, the seller will tell me to GTFO if I submit an offer "subject to an inspection by a city bylaw officer"!

So, any advice?

Advice would be the norm.. before going through with payment the house has to go through a full Inpsection. That's just standard and if he denies then there's something DEFINATELY wrong. Never buy a house without a THOROUGH inspection.

I can see that if nothings wrong, then apply for the permit for the suite. But I'd read all the FAQ's and see if you can see any problems yourself.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by melloman

Advice would be the norm.. before going through with payment the house has to go through a full Inpsection. That's just standard and if he denies then there's something DEFINATELY wrong. Never buy a house without a THOROUGH inspection.

I can see that if nothings wrong, then apply for the permit for the suite. But I'd read all the FAQ's and see if you can see any problems yourself.

Oh yeah, I'd never buy a house without first doing a house inspection.

The problem is that a home inspection is only an examination of the current condition of a house. It is not a municipal inspection, which verifies local code compliance. But I guess it's close...

Shit, I didn't realize buying a house would be so stressful...

[melloman]

The thing is, they inspect the plumbing and everything to make sure its up to code.. if everythings is up to code, then it shouldn't be an issue getting it legalized.

The only things to make sure would be:
-Seperate entrance
-Bedroom has a big enough window for emergency exit (dependant on percentage compared to size of occupancy)
-Smoke detectors (2 IIRC)
-6' 6" headroom in 60% of the suite and at all exits/entrances

Assuming it's in Vancouver: Licences & Inspections, By-law Administration and Records Services, Secondary Suites Program

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by melloman

-6' 6" headroom in 60% of the suite and at all exits/entrances

The Secondary Suite PDF document says 80%.

Now the other part - calculating the maximum allowable area using the lot size & Floor Space Ratio (FSR) seems impossible given that city policies are stated in square metres, whereas floor plans are measured in square feet!

Edit: Ok maybe not impossible, but certainly one hell of a math problem!

[melloman]

1 square foot = 0.09290304 square meters

[Glove]

Originally Posted by ruthless

+1 mello

If everything is by the book, then the neighbors can complain all they want...

but usually for small reno's people don't get permits so...

it wasnt a small reno, pretty big one,

but we were doing everything legally, then when the inspector came,

we literally had to drop our tools and go through 2 weeks of paperwork MID project. it was fuckin rediculous, everything was eventually passed with no problems,

but why the hell would someone complain anyway? I just dont get it, why do they care what im doing to my house?