The Decline of our beloved Honda

[satek]

No surprise here...never really liked them in the first place anyways

[Kidnapman]

"Nothing gold can stay"

and btw Satek, what caused you to side with nissan after your 2 previous hondas?

[z-33]

hondas are whack anyways. If your looking into purchasing a honda civic/accord you should be purchasing one due to its styling/fuel efficiency. Too many people buy them to do them out bodykit,exhaust,rims, intake. Its a day to day car. if u want a daily/power buy something like a 335 or a 350/g35 or 7. if thats out of ur budget get a skyline or some other jdm import.

[see.lai]

We love to have our fuel efficent vtec screaming cars.

[LiquidTurbo]

IMO, Honda's biggest mistake was killing the DC2/DC5. How else do you get a generation of young guys to be loyal to your brand when you don't have these types of cars?

[teggy604]

its great that honda is still racing, but they are not focusing in that direction anymore.
but who knows maybe few generations later that might change.

[dee242]

Originally Posted by Great68

Except that these days 4-cylinder turbos are becoming the norm. Unless Honda gets on the turbo train soon, I think that they'll fade away.

honda should stay away from turbos and all this hybrid bs and keep making unbreakable na 4cylinders

[dinamix]

honda is sick of 17 year old riceboys butchering their creations.

they are still the leaders in the moto R&D.

[TRD Rs200]

still loving my dc2... but newer Honda's are ...

[CorneringArtist]

Honda has recently started into the turbodiesel game in Europe. I'd actually kinda like to see that come over to North America, but the chances of that happening are probably zero due to emissions regs.

[too_slow]

Originally Posted by LiquidTurbo

IMO, Honda's biggest mistake was killing the DC2/DC5. How else do you get a generation of young guys to be loyal to your brand when you don't have these types of cars?

But but but.. that would cheapen the brand!!!
(Acura Canada then gives us 1.5 decade worth of rebadged Civics)

[Tapioca]

My 92 GS-R creaked over speed bumps and was starting to rust when I sold it, but the fundamentals were there: low hoodline, great visibility, functional controls, quality materials (far superior to what Euros of the day were offering), and of course a buttery smooth transmission. Sure the engine had no torque, but when wound up all the way to the redline, it was always fun. One Honda I would like to own someday would be a Gen 1 Legend Coupe with a 5-speed. The Gen 1 Legend was probably the best car that Honda has ever made.

Honda offers none of these attributes in its current lineup of cars. The mainstream consumer wants safety features, convenience, and comfort. Driving enthusiasts (which represent a small portion of the market) stick with old cars, or buy Euros. Yes, some blame should be put on Honda, but some of it should be on the mainstream car buyer too.

[teggy604]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

My 92 GS-R creaked over speed bumps and was starting to rust when I sold it, but the fundamentals were there: low hoodline, great visibility, functional controls, quality materials (far superior to what Euros of the day were offering), and of course a buttery smooth transmission. Sure the engine had no torque, but when wound up all the way to the redline, it was always fun. One Honda I would like to own someday would be a Gen 1 Legend Coupe with a 5-speed. The Gen 1 Legend was probably the best car that Honda has ever made.

Honda offers none of these attributes in its current lineup of cars. The mainstream consumer wants safety features, convenience, and comfort. Driving enthusiasts (which represent a small portion of the market) stick with old cars, or buy Euros. Yes, some blame should be put on Honda, but some of it should be on the mainstream car buyer too.

agreed. the sport compact cars were only a very small portion of profit for honda. They spent a lot of time in the R&D department for those cars, every detail they could think of to make the engine produce more hp per litre, take those corners a little faster, give the driver total feedback. At the end the car was a great driving machine, but they didnt make much for each car in terms of profit.

[tofu1413]

^ they actually lost money per car on the DC2 ITR!

[Bahhbeehhaaaa]

Originally Posted by tofu1413

^ they actually lost money per car on the DC2 ITR!

why is that? ITRs are such great cars and so is the CTR

[originalhypa]

Originally Posted by z-33

If your looking into purchasing a honda civic/accord you should be purchasing one due to its styling/fuel efficiency.

Don't forget resale value. People still see a value in Hondas, which is why you can sell your 5 year old Odyssey for a 40% loss, while your 5 year old Dodge Caravan is down by 80%.

Honda still makes a good vehicle. The difference these days is that the other manufacturers have really stepped up their game.

Originally Posted by too_slow

(Acura Canada then gives us 1.5 decade worth of rebadged Civics)

Que?
By that logic, an STI is just a rebadged Impreza.

The ITR is a prime example of Honda taking the best DC2 chassis off their line, and changing it enough that it's almost impossible to take a GS-R and turn it into an ITR. Trust me, I've tried

[Traum]

Originally Posted by loong

I agree that Honda has lost their ways in terms of producing cars that feel alive and worth driving. However, as an employee of a Honda dealership the amount of new car buyers that pass through the service department is fairly impressive. Civics and CRV's are being delivered by the hour, and in Honda's point of view that's all the matters; money.

Honda has established themselves in the general public's eyes as one of the most reliable car manufactures next to Toyota. And for a family looking to purchase a vehicle for themselves or their child, that's what they will look for.

Their attempt to relive their sports car days failed miserably with the CRZ. The car has no 'life' to it and does not capture that raw driving spirit that we as enthusiasts are craving for.

Your remarks are entirely correct. However, I just have to question if these people are purchasing their new Hondas based on objective research, or if they are just continuing to drink that "Honda reliability" coolaid or other subjective criteria.

Take the current Civic, for example. The car has been universally panned by all automotive reviews that I have read. IIRC, sales of the car hasn't lived up to Honda's expectations, nor does it compare to the previous gen Civic. Even Honda has openly acknowledged that they messed up, making the car too cheap. When I sat in the car for the very first time, I couldn't help but immediately notice how incredibly cheap the interior was, to the point of being revolting. Every time I see a new Civic out on the street, I keep wondering to myself -- why did this guy not consider something else?

Additionally, from a layman's point of view, it seems to me that in general, the percentage of new / new-ish Hondas on the street just isn't what it used to be. I continue to see tons of older Civics and Accords on the road, but I hardly see the newer ones anymore. As a matter of fact, I'd say I see more recent model Bimmers and Mercedes than Civics and Accords. And no, I don't just hide in Richmond all the time.

[loong]

^I don't think the people purchasing the new Honda's are using objective research when a large majority of the customers purchasing newer Honda's are existing customers that have owned a Honda in their past.

I completely agree with the quality of Honda's being produced these days. I've been in enough of the new models to tell that production quantity was more important than quality.

Honda is currently attempting to enter into the sports compact market again though. They are now offering their 'HPF' model on the new accords and civic si's. Enkei has also worked a new contract with Honda in which enkei wheels will be offered through the business office prior to the delivery of your car. I personally think that Honda has lost that customer base already, and the enthusiast market has moved on to other brands that offer more of what they want at the same price.

[tofu1413]

Originally Posted by Bahhbeehhaaaa

why is that? ITRs are such great cars and so is the CTR

each one they sold, it apparently costed more to build it than what they sold it for!

early 95' spec cars had their engine head port polished by hand! and those heads were contracted by a small machine shop to do the porting!

[!Aznboi128]

Originally Posted by Juwlzx

I beg to differ guys...
Temple of VTEC Rumors and News - The bags come off! 2013 Accord plug-in Hybrid revealed in Torrance

2013 Accord

really? the new 2013 looks like the same accord from 2008.

Sorry but Honda lost all imagination when building cars, they're all simply boring now.
And I've had 4 Honda's in my life and I still have mad love for dc2-r but there's nothing they're making that attracts anyone

[heleu]

Editorial: The Accord Might Not Make The 10 Best List Come December | The Truth About Cars

Here's a rebuttal to the car and driver article.

For those too lazy to read, it basically says that we (enthusiasts) do not represent most of the market. Honda still appeals to the masses even though of its apparent lack of innovation.

Examples include new Accord using V6 (most other competitors switching to turbo 4). With as much attention as the Kia Optima/Hyundai Sonata are getting with their 2.0T, Sonata sales are still insignificant compared to Camry/Altima sales, both which offer the V6.

[Bahhbeehhaaaa]

I've noticed a few of the EGS 92-95's 5 speed if taken care of and gently driven, they can easily achieve 600k+ on original tranny and block. Why is that? Such a cheap car and yet is soo durable? Is it because of the weight of the car?? or the materials that was used to build the EG?

[RRxtar]

to go contrary to the mass of revscene, i don't think killing the DC2R started the downward slide for honda.

someone mentioned that honda is persuing a different demographic now. that is true, but the problem is they aren't doing it right, especially in the Acura line. the TSX is their best selling car and they are axing it from the line up because its taking sales away from the TL. instead of making the TL more appealing to buyers and actually try to compete with the high end 3, low end 5 series, they are making the TL even less desirable (smaller motors and worse handling). regardless of whether or not a middle aged professional is looking for a sports car or not, nearly every man out there wants something they can at least pretend is faster than the other guy.

And as for brand loyalty. Honda is still selling cars because the generation buying cars remembers how good the Hondas were in the 90s. What happens when the next generation doesnt buy entry level Hondas anymore because they arent appealing? If they don't buy their first honda, will they buy their second? Brand loyalty goes both ways

[dinamix]

Originally Posted by Bahhbeehhaaaa

I've noticed a few of the EGS 92-95's 5 speed if taken care of and gently driven, they can easily achieve 600k+ on original tranny and block. Why is that? Such a cheap car and yet is soo durable? Is it because of the weight of the car?? or the materials that was used to build the EG?

ive seen corollas and ford focus do the same

[godwin]

Honda painted themselves in a corner.

For high price and performance cars, FWD layout even with any AWD, is just not sporty enough for most buyers.

They concentrated on high rev 4 cylinders.. however high rev is incompatible design wise to FI engines... so they have to start all over again.

I blame their Acura division, and the wishy washy drivetrain commonality strategy. infiniti G, Lexus GS, IS all doing just fine. That brings another problem is Honda is now way too small and not partnering with other companies to spread out development cost.

Originally Posted by heleu

Examples include new Accord using V6 (most other competitors switching to turbo 4). With as much attention as the Kia Optima/Hyundai Sonata are getting with their 2.0T, Sonata sales are still insignificant compared to Camry/Altima sales, both which offer the V6.