NHL IS BACK! The Official 2012/2013 Canucks & NHL Thread

[7seven]

Shea Weber’s Massive Flyers Offer Sheet Is A CBA-Beating Masterpiece

by Barry Petchesky

The Predators have been poking around for weeks, looking to see what they could get in a trade for star defenseman Shea Weber, who's a restricted free agent. The fruitless talks have been maddening for Weber, and for all the teams waiting on Nashville, and last night the Flyers put an end to it all. They signed Weber to a 14-year, $110 million offer sheet, and the Preds now have seven days to match.

It's a ballsy move by Philly. Offer sheets, like what we've just gone through with Jeremy Lin, simply aren't done that often in hockey. (One of them nearly led to a GM barn fight.) It's seemingly a weird gentleman's agreement thing, and GMs get righteously pissed when they're used, even though they're totally above board. Interestingly, it was the Flyers who used the first offer sheet with a salary cap in place, agreeing with Ryan Kesler in 2006. Then-GM Bob Clarke said:

"It was sort of an unwritten rule that you didn't sign any Group 2 players because the other team would match. In today's (salary cap) world, you may not match. You may take the compensation. This is the first one (offer sheet), but it's not going to be the last."

Let's take a moment to applaud Paul Holmgren and Shea Weber for an exquisite offer sheet, the details of which are a master class on big contracts in the dying days of the current CBA. With labor talks ongoing, the NHL's financial landscape is going to look a lot different by opening night—but Shea Weber is going to be a happy man in orange and black.

This deal is frontloaded, like all the other massive deals signed in recent years. Nick Kypreos has the details: $14 million a year for the first four years, $12 million each of the next two, $6 million in years seven through ten, then wee little payouts of $3M, $1M, $1M, and $1M. The point? Salary cap relief for the Flyers. The cap hit gets averaged out, so even in those lucrative first few years, it'll only cost Philly about $7.85 million against their cap. Even if he never plays the last few years of the deal.
Yes, this pisses the NHL off to no end. They put their foot down on Ilya Kovalchuk's similar deal, but they probably can't touch this one—until frontloaded contracts are likely abolished in the new CBA. The Flyers got this one in under the wire.

(Just like the big deals for Zach Parise and Ryan Suter, Weber's deal ends when he's 40. An NHL amendment, passed after the Kovalchuk mess, forbade long-term deals from running past a player's 41st birthday. Again, nice work, Homer.)

Any 14-year deal, never mind the player's age, might not be legal after the new CBA is in place. Owners are beating the drum hard for term limits on contracts, and one report has them aiming for a five-year maximum. There's a good chance no team will ever be able to lock up a superstar for their entire career on a single deal—but that won't be retroactive. Weber would be Philly's until 2026, something no team would be able to say if they traded for him this year then signed him as an unrestricted free agent next summer. And Weber might be the last 26 year old to be set for the rest of his hockey life.
What's in it for Weber? This is the truly brilliant part of Philly's offer, and also relates to something the owners are fighting hard for in the new CBA: salary rollbacks. The owners claim they're paying too much money (and yet sign players to $110 million contracts without blinking, but that's not the point.) They're pushing for leaguewide salary rollbacks starting next year, which would even affect existing contracts. How to protect Weber's $110 million from becoming something less than $110 million?
Signing bonuses. Weber will actually only make $1M in salary each of his first four seasons. But he'll receive $52 million in signing bonuses over those four years, and $68 million over his first six. And signing bonuses cannot be touched by any proposed salary rollbacks. True, guaranteed money.

The signing bonuses also mean Nashville has almost no chance of matching the offer. They could match, and try to trade Weber to get something for him. But as Kypreos points out, they'd have to keep him for a full year before attempting to move him, and pay him $27 million for just that one season.

Flyers fans should be sending their front office mash notes today. Preds fans? Well, if your team doesn't match, you'll get four first-round draft picks as compensation. Which, from a perennial playoff team like the Flyers, isn't much. Probably a lot of teams kicking themselves today about not having used offer sheets over the last six years.

Shea Weber's Massive Flyers Offer Sheet Is A CBA-Beating Masterpiece

[Tim Budong]

a character guy can only give you so much
what the radio speculates is that Nashville could take the picks and send it back to philly for some roster players

[GrapeDrink]

[QUOTE=UFO;7979568]As ridiculous as these contracts seem, I'd rather them get rid of no trade/movement clauses over restricting terms on contracts.

Really? I kinda disagree there I think its fine to give out NTC it gives the player signing the deal some closure I guess and its only been in a few situations where its soured the team and usually those were the long ass deals. Like for example in SJ vlasic just got a new 5 year extension with a NTC and I don't see an issue he just wants to make sure he doesn't get flipped to columbus lol. I think the problem is when GMs give them out to players they know they have no interest in keeping through out in the entire term, and it just becomes almost a trick to get a small paycut and eventually they just go well too bad buddy. I think that happened with Dan Boyle in Tampa, where he had a NTC but management was just like well too bad we going to send you down or something along those lines.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by kwy

Keep Manny..he seems like a great character and locker room guy. Plus, he's a great defensive zone sacrificial lamb/center.

Manny can't even see anymore, he's a liability everywhere but the dot

[TPMarko]

the NTC clause isn't that big of a deal especially if they can limit contracts to max 5 or any other reasonable number of years.

[MR_BIGGS]

Originally Posted by hypediss

will someone educate me how this is different than the kovulchuk contract nhl vetoed and penalized on last year.
these contracts are getting out of hand...

Kovulchuk is Russian.

Rumour has it, Preds wanted Courtier, Shenn and another peice for Weber. I don't understand why Gillis would make it known he was thinking of submitting an offer sheet on Weber. Now that Philly has, what does he have to gain from making this information known?

I think the Preds will match it. They have said all along that they would match any offer sheet. This contract could cripple a team, but a lot of teams could take on the contract and make themselves better. Maybe he matches then trades Weber a year later?

[Verdasco]

If they do not sign it, i can see nashville being unpopular with suiter and webber gone, gm losing job, team losing fans, not making it into the playoffs. THEY MUST AND HAVE TO MATCH IT even if you have to do 26mil first year

[Mike Oxbig]

Isnt Weber's contract front loaded in the first few years? If the preds gonna keep him and THEN trade him, they already paid 1/4 of his contract then trade him? Not sure if its a good deal for preds unless weber is planning to stay there forever

[rsx]

4 1st round drafts isn't that bad

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by rsx

4 1st round drafts isn't that bad

If it was Edmonton maybe. 4 Philly draft picks isn't much to go with

[trancehead]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

If it was Edmonton maybe. 4 Philly draft picks isn't much to go with

exactly
these are bottom tier 1st rounders
most likely >20th pick overall

thats nothing for a star in Weber whose been established...and is only 26
and philly is already stuffed in the cupboards with grade A prospects

edit: or maybe RSX meant that its not a bad deal for Philly LOL.

[trancehead]

Originally Posted by EmperorIS

Luongo's contract aint so bad now

Originally Posted by TPMarko

it never was that bad. it was just the media painting a shitty picture all the time.

most retards i argued with used to claim "WE ARE PAYING 10 MILLION DOLLARS TO LUONGO THIS YEAR"

they they barely have any concept of Salary Cap nor Cap hit from contracts

so the media takes these idiots, give them a good spin, and now you have a widerange of complete morons roaming the city

5.33 caphit/ year for a top tier goalie is a steal considering the world of Scott Gomezs et al

[UFO]

[QUOTE=GrapeDrink;7979721
Really? I kinda disagree there I think its fine to give out NTC it gives the player signing the deal some closure I guess and its only been in a few situations where its soured the team and usually those were the long ass deals. [/QUOTE]

Well players need to understand its a business and they are assets as much as anything and I think most do. If he gets signed to a contract long or short with NTC, they can take the extreme of holding out until they get moved to a team he approves. If you sign a deal that's your commitment to stay with the team and the team commits to you by giving you big money and promising not to trade you. Getting a NTC then asking for a trade to a team of choosing is prima dona-ism at its finest.

IMO players with NTC asking to get traded is on a similar level as GM's signing him to a big contract then deciding he doesn't want to keep paying that contract after a year or two. If you want out then fine, you waive your NTC in asking for the trade and get shipped to wherever the GM can get the most in return for you.

[Obsideon]

Originally Posted by Spoon

Thought the canucks were trying to get rid of Malholtra too. How's that going to help.

That's what they said about Raymond but he managed to get Garrison over here

Originally Posted by MR_BIGGS

Kovulchuk is Russian.

Rumour has it, Preds wanted Courtier, Shenn and another peice for Weber. I don't understand why Gillis would make it known he was thinking of submitting an offer sheet on Weber. Now that Philly has, what does he have to gain from making this information known?

I think the Preds will match it. They have said all along that they would match any offer sheet. This contract could cripple a team, but a lot of teams could take on the contract and make themselves better. Maybe he matches then trades Weber a year later?

I think the Preds should take the hit and match it. Weber can get so much more in return than just 4 late 1st-round draft picks from the Flyers and ensure they can at least be competitive the following year instead of re-building for the next 5 years. Losing their most offensively gifted foward (Radulov) and their top defensive pairing all in 1 off-season will implode the team. If he goes to Philly I'm pretty sure he will be a Flyer for life, if he gets pulled back into Nashville, there's a slim chance he might be traded to Vancouver or another team the following year because he will obviously be disgruntled (ala Dwight Howard and the Magic fiasco).

Rinne is gonna get destroyed next season.

Here's a pipe-dream scenario:
NSH matches and sucks up the $26m first year then trades back for:

Edler - obviously a poorman's Weber, but should be able semi-fill in the enormous gaping hole that Suter/Weber leave behind to to create a core of:
Slowfooted defensive rock - Hal Gill
Developing young talent in Ekholm and Ryan Ellis and hopefully an improved Jonathan Blum.
Veteran Kevin Klein.
OR
Kesler (same hometown as Legwand) - Chances are he instantly would become the alpha male in the forward corp centering the first line and makes the top 6 look much better. Rolling 4 line centers of Kesler, Fisher, Legwand and Gaustad looks pretty good on paper. Although overpaying Gaustad to play the 3rd or 4th line could be a mistake. I think it was a mistake in the first place already.

Then throw in Raymond, with a team that has Erat and Kostitsyn as their other top LW options, MayRay doesn't look so bad on the 1st or 2nd line with lots of speed to play with Fisher or Legwand.

Add Ballard in who could fit into the top-4 much more smoothly than in Vancouver plus a couple draft picks & cash consideration and I don't see why they won't pull the trigger on this deal.

Nashville has their backs against the wall in this situation, lose their superstar captain for 4 low-end draft picks which would not improve them in the foreseeable future or keep him and pay out the ass when their franchise is already losing money year after year.

[Ludepower]

Originally Posted by UFO

Well players need to understand its a business and they are assets as much as anything and I think most do. If he gets signed to a contract long or short with NTC, they can take the extreme of holding out until they get moved to a team he approves. If you sign a deal that's your commitment to stay with the team and the team commits to you by giving you big money and promising not to trade you. Getting a NTC then asking for a trade to a team of choosing is prima dona-ism at its finest.

IMO players with NTC asking to get traded is on a similar level as GM's signing him to a big contract then deciding he doesn't want to keep paying that contract after a year or two. If you want out then fine, you waive your NTC in asking for the trade and get shipped to wherever the GM can get the most in return for you.

Dont star players deserve prima dona status? Nothing wrong with a NTC clause...it's for players who've earned that right.
It's the GM fault for agreeing to it...after the deal is signed...the ball is in the players court.

[Obsideon]

But obviously that's a moot point, we just have to wait and see what Nashville does. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't match. Look what happened to the Knicks and Jeremy Lin, yes the Offer-Sheet was ridiculous, $25million for 3 years, BUT... Madison Square Garden Stocks plummeted $27m in a matter of DAYS when Wall Street found out Lin was taking his talents to Texas lol ... not all millionaires are smart sports savvy.

[Ronin]

Yep. Manny Is still elite at being Manny. Winning faceoffs, dumping the puck and keeping shifts short. He is the perfect 4th liner still but unfortunately he's making 3rd line center money and he's terrible at everything else. You all saw how he played before the eye injury. That was worth $2.5m. Unfortunately what he does now is not worth $2.5m despite the fact that he's awesome at the little things. Nicest guy in the world and a great leader. I hope they resign him when his contract is done but to significantly less money depending on the cap.

I wouldn't be opposed to replacing him for and upgrade but I totally think Manny is the perfect complement to Max Lappy on the 4th line. Put some muscle on their line but a guy that can at least skate. Don't need that line to score but they absolutely cannot get scored on so they can reliably reduce the minutes the Sedins and Kesler and whoever our new 3rd line center is spend in our own zone do they can take a breather.

Guys that say Manny is useless don't get it.

[Ronin]

Preds are done if they don't match. Rinne demands trade. Watch ticket sales plummet. Team moves. GG new Nordiques.

[OGCStrike]

St. Louis Blues ‏@StLouisBlues
BREAKING NEWS: The Blues have agreed to terms with T.J. Oshie on a five-year contract. Details coming to St. Louis Blues soon #stlblues
Posted Image


[Signing] Wild sign Matthew Dumba
http://wild.nhl.com/...s.htm?id=638169

[jeedee]

Originally Posted by Ronin

Yep. Manny Is still elite at being Manny. Winning faceoffs, dumping the puck and keeping shifts short. He is the perfect 4th liner still but unfortunately he's making 3rd line center money and he's terrible at everything else. You all saw how he played before the eye injury. That was worth $2.5m. Unfortunately what he does now is not worth $2.5m despite the fact that he's awesome at the little things. Nicest guy in the world and a great leader. I hope they resign him when his contract is done but to significantly less money depending on the cap.

I wouldn't be opposed to replacing him for and upgrade but I totally think Manny is the perfect complement to Max Lappy on the 4th line. Put some muscle on their line but a guy that can at least skate. Don't need that line to score but they absolutely cannot get scored on so they can reliably reduce the minutes the Sedins and Kesler and whoever our new 3rd line center is spend in our own zone do they can take a breather.

Guys that say Manny is useless don't get it.

Agree with you 100%.

However, I hope we can land a two-way 3rd liner, that can score and play defense.

I wouldn't be opposed to Manny being an assistant coach for the Canucks or something along those lines.

[RRxtar]

The Philadelphia Flyers' 14-year, $110 million offer sheet to restricted free agent defenceman Shea Weber early Thursday morning caught the hockey world by surprise.

However, for Weber and his representatives, the possibility of life away from Nashville opened up on July 4.

"The marketplace changed on July 4 there," Weber's agent Jarrett Bousquet told TSN Radio 1050's Cybulski and Company on Thursday. "The other contract [of] Shea's old defence partner (Ryan Suter) re-set the market."

With Suter inking a 13-year, $98 million contract with the Minnesota Wild as an unrestricted free agent, Bousquet felt that the price of a two-time Norris Trophy finalist like Weber had just gone up.

"When that happened we saw 13-year deals coming and 14-year deals coming, which Shea was able to sign under the 'Kovalchuk rule,'" Bousquet said. "We all sat down and looked at the different options and thought, you know, if there is a 14-year contract coming down the pipe at some point, we need to be ready for it and we need to know that you want to play there for the next 14 years."

The choice for Weber to look elsewhere is a direct result of what Bousquet believes is a philosophical change in direction from the Predators in the wake of Suter's decision to sign with the Wild.

"When things changed in Nashville and we felt that everything was set back a year or two and it looked to be more of a rebuilding situation," he said. "We thought we'd just take our time. In that time frame – in three or four days – other teams exercised their rights under the CBA to contact us and make some offers."

As a restricted free agent, Suter has been eligible to sign an offer sheet since the calendar turned to July and to some, it was just a matter of time before he signed one.

"Is anyone surprised that an offer sheet came in for Shea Weber?" TSN Scout Craig Button asked later on Cybulski and Company.

"Shea Weber - arguably – is the best defenceman in the National Hockey League. I'm not talking about the Norris Trophy or who was the best this year. What Shea Weber brings to a team is unique."

Seeing an opening on their blue line with the potential loss of captain Chris Pronger, the Flyers put up big money - $56 million over the first four years of the contract – to try to lure Weber to Philly.

While the money grabbed headlines, the opportunity to play for a perennial competitor was attractive to Weber and his team.

"He'd like to play with the Philadelphia Flyers because we all feel that he's just another piece in the puzzle to take them to the next level," Bousquet said. "He doesn't want to go through a rebuilding process again."

He added that his client wouldn't have signed the offer if he weren't ready to close the book on his career in Nashville.

"I don't think you sign an offer sheet unless you're pointing in that one direction," Bousquet said.

But Button was quick to point out the flip side of the strategy, one that could lock Weber into being a Predator for a long time to come.

"If you're exercising your rights under the CBA then you know Nashville can exercise their rights under the CBA and match," Button said. "When you sign this offer sheet, there's no way that you don't want to be in Nashville, because the percentages are very high – like almost 100 per cent – that [Nashville] is going to match the offer sheet."

The strategy was set in attempts to scare Nashville off from immediate cash commitments, but the importance of a player like Weber cannot be lost on an organization such as the Predators.

"It's not just Weber," Button said. "Weber is so unique that he makes everyone around him better. So it's not just that you lose Shea Weber. You're losing the capabilities of everyone else on your team."

"I don't think you can overcome Ryan Suter and Shea Weber losses in any type of short term."

Predators general manager David Poile has been in this situation before.

As GM of the Washington Capitals, he was faced with the opportunity to match an offer sheet submitted to then-Capitals defender Scott Stevens by the St. Louis Blues.

While Poile's Capitals would receive two compensatory draft picks, the loss of a future Hall-of-Famer was a sting to the organization.

"It didn't turn out very well for him," Button said. "Now I'm not going to tell you it turned out terribly, but it didn't turn out very well."

While the Caps would draft long-serving NHL defenders with both picks, selecting Brendan Witt and Sergei Gonchar, the leadership gap was wide.

"You just don't replace impact players like Scott Stevens or Shea Weber."

Button stressed that the four compensatory picks Nashville would receive for opting not to match could yield quality players, those bodies would not realistically be of help to the Predators until 2017 and onwards.

Weber's camp, however, knows that a change is coming to the economics of the NHL in the form of a new collective bargaining agreement.

"With the uncertainty of the new CBA, we felt as though when the offer sheet came we felt that it was just too good of a deal to pass on," Bousquet said.

Button agrees that the money Weber has been offered involves a big up-front commitment from the Predators. However, the salary cap obligations the deal would carry are only marginally higher than what Weber cost the Predators in 2011-12.

Under the offer sheet, Weber's annual cap hit becomes just north of $7.85 million per season, versus a $7.5 million cap hit this past season.

While the 14-year duration of the offer sheet is a heavy commitment, Button does not believe the Predators will back down.

"They had that money for Ryan Suter on July 1," Button said. "So the bottom line is - to me – [Poile] can take his time, maybe make someone sweat it out, but he has got to match it."

looks like weber fully intended not to re sign with nashville. and the offer sheet was written to scare nashville out of matching it with so much money up front.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by Ronin

Yep. Manny Is still elite at being Manny. Winning faceoffs, dumping the puck and keeping shifts short. He is the perfect 4th liner still but unfortunately he's making 3rd line center money and he's terrible at everything else. You all saw how he played before the eye injury. That was worth $2.5m. Unfortunately what he does now is not worth $2.5m despite the fact that he's awesome at the little things. Nicest guy in the world and a great leader. I hope they resign him when his contract is done but to significantly less money depending on the cap.

I wouldn't be opposed to replacing him for and upgrade but I totally think Manny is the perfect complement to Max Lappy on the 4th line. Put some muscle on their line but a guy that can at least skate. Don't need that line to score but they absolutely cannot get scored on so they can reliably reduce the minutes the Sedins and Kesler and whoever our new 3rd line center is spend in our own zone do they can take a breather.

Guys that say Manny is useless don't get it.

Manny has a bigger impact in the room than on the ice.

[Gilgamesh]

From a guy that likes observing prospects before a draft, those 4 first rounders are enticing, even if they are going to be 20-30 picks. Nashville is actually not bad with their draft picks, since they are able to incorporate prospects into their system. They're going to need size on their D with the loss of suter and weber.
But yeah, they're going to be set back by at least 2-4 years, especially since they're a low-budget team.

[dbaz]

apparently its not even 4 firsts anymore, because of the way they structured the contract the aav is lower. also because of the rise in the cap the money for each section has risen.so like 5.5-6.5 mil last year is now 6.-7.5 this year or w.e(not exact numbers but same theory). therefore its not 4 firsts but 2 firsts a second and a third.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Ludepower

Dont star players deserve prima dona status? Nothing wrong with a NTC clause...it's for players who've earned that right.
It's the GM fault for agreeing to it...after the deal is signed...the ball is in the players court.

That really depends on your belief of what elite athletes deserve. Nobody IMO deserves prima dona status, they are just playing a damn game. On the flip side, if a team can't move/trade a player with a NTC, then he can get sent down and buried in the minors. As an elite athlete do you really want to play with plugs and kids while you are making millions and millions but knowing legit pro teams do not want you?

I have no problems with NTC's themselves, but the way that NTC's can be exploited by players. NTC's are a team commitment to the player not to move him, but the contract length is a player commitment to the team to provide his services for them. If a player wants out of his team, but then cites his NTC and says he will only move to 3 out of 30 teams, that's pretty bogus. You don't want to get traded and play for Edmonton or Columbus? Suck it up buttercup, you're a pro athlete making millions of dollars a season and you are the asset of the team which holds your rights.

Yes its partly GMs fault that NTC are handed out like candy. Similar to how these mega year big money deals are also handed out while owners are asking for 5 year max non-front loaded deals with the new CBA. But if the options are there, you know agents are going to push GMs for them.