Just thought I’d share my experience in dealing with Staff’s Auto so that others may be able to make an informed decision for themselves.
As you might see by my other posts over the years (and on other forums as well), I do all my own work, or, with my certified mechanic brother. So you can imagine my nervousness as I had to swallow my pride and reluctantly hand the keys over to another shop.
I did so as we had diagnosed that it was my turbo has been burning oil. Unfortunately neither myself nor my brother have the equipment to rebuild and balance a turbo. Don’t know why I didn’t do it before, but searched old posts by the previous owner’s user name and found it had been in the car for 10 years; 7 of those with me. A pretty good run considering it’s a daily driver on an oil cooled Turbonetics T3/T4.
After searching around, I went with Staff’s Auto in North Vancouver for the rebuild. They quoted me $300 to rebuild it & that they’re able to rebuild turbo’s in-house, and they’re 5 minutes away, so, no-brainer.
1st visit:
I booked a time to drop it by and was able to explain to a head mechanic the modifications/aftermarket done to my car. They build race cars (saw 2 on the hoists in various stages) and weren’t intimidated. Showed a few things and why I did the things I did, etc. and they seemed to nod their head in agreement.
I got a call the next day stating that my brother and I were in fact correct in that it’s the turbo. I was told the exhaust side of the turbo was “just soaked” in oil and was described that “the turbo just got tired”. I was now told the rebuild was going to cost $600 (twice the original quote), OR, they happen to have a new, identical turbo on the shelf that was ordered “by mistake a year or two ago” and collecting dust, for $700. Talking it over with my brother, might as well go for the new one for $100 more (and have some warranty at least or something). Looked online, and the cheapest I would’ve been able to source one myself would’ve been $800. Didn’t think I was getting ripped off so gave them the benefit of the doubt, and went with the new one. I asked why the quote increased and I was advised that there was more work needed now that they’ve looked at it, but offered no further detail.
I get a call the next day telling me it’s done, but that there must’ve been a lot of oil that leaked down and in the exhaust because the shop filled with smoke the moment they fired the car up, so may have to drive and burn it off. I thought this was a bit strange cause it was never THAT bad before as they’re describing now, but was just glad the new turbo was in and done.
I picked up my car that night and it was smoking pretty bad; worse than before. I was advised to make a run to Squamish and back on the Sea to Sky to really burn things off. I didn’t have the time (nor felt like burning that much gas) to head to Squamish and back, so decided a good alternative was to make a spirited run uphill to Cypress. The whole way there, and back, I was followed by this opaque, blue cloud that was something out of a Stephen King novel. It’s like I couldn’t escape the damn thing.
This was mid-week, but gave them the benefit of the doubt, and kept driving the car. By the weekend it was worse. So much so the car was embarrassing to drive! It was so bad it actually worried traffic and other drivers around me. I’d have people in other cars flailing their arms in scared concern telling me and pointing to the back of my car that there’s something wrong or that my car’s on fire. Got a thumbs down from a passenger in a new Impreza in front of me; not cool.
I noticed that they had drastically overfilled the engine with oil as well, past the full line on the dipstick. I thought this might have something to do with it, so drain it and topped it off properly but no change (had about 1.25L left over; only recall leaving 4L with them. Left a new filter with them too). By the weekend I was ¼ above full on the dipstick in these few days, and the interior wreaked of burnt oil. Had a burnt popcorn smell with a nauseous quality to it. Never before had I burnt this much oil and had a cloud chasing me wherever I went. It otherwise drove fine ironically. If you took the mirrors off and didn’t look behind you, you’d be none the wiser. It was still pulling good vacuum and you could still eat off the spark plugs I had changed a month prior (seeing if a bit of a tune up was culprit as part of previous troubleshooting).
I took the charge pipe off and clamped the air filter right to the intercooler. Drove around for a day but no difference. It used to be, with the old turbo, that it’d puff more and more blue as time went on, but only while warming up and under boost. Once warmed up and driving normally she’d behave just fine. But now it got so bad to the point where I didn’t even want to drive my car. Talked to my brother about it and logic would dictate that if the only thing changed was the turbo then it therefore must be the problem. Our best guess was either the exhaust seal/ring somehow “dried out” (for lack of a better term) from sitting on the shelf too long, or with my luck the guy on the assembly line at Turbonetics sneezed as mine passed by and there was no seal/ring or wasn’t installed properly.
2nd visit:
First thing the following Monday I called the shop and told them it’s worse then before. I sensed they got defensive over the phone and immediately diagnosed that it’s not the turbo and now somehow must be the engine. I rebuttalled that the engine’s just running too smooth and nicely to be the issue. Vacuum hasn’t changed, gas mileage hasn’t changed, and my plugs showed no signs of anything abnormal. I informed them the engine was overfilled with oil and asked if that could’ve had anything to do with it; to the response that they only put in the oil I had left with them. It took some convincing, but they agreed to have another look and I dropped it off that day.
I got a call that Tuesday that it was the turbo, again, and sent it off to a place called ADP, again (not familiar with who or where they are). Turns out the rebuilding was being sublet out this entire time to them as well. But I was advised that they’d send out the new turbo that day or the next and that it’d be looked at under warranty.
That Wednesday, I get a call from the shop saying that the ADP didn’t find anything wrong with the turbo, and so the issue must be my engine, again. They then proceeded to explain to me that they’ll put the turbo back in and they’ll rebuild the engine for me. The stated that they rebuild these engines all the time and they can just “pop new rings in, no problem”. I’m sorry, but we all know that, although do-able, rebuilding a boxer is more time consuming. They claimed that the issue must be that the oil rings got stuck and weren’t expanding up against the cylinder walls. “Happens all the time with these engines” I was told. They also advised that Honda’s are notorious for this as well. I’ve owned 4 Civic’s in the past, along with friends with Civics, and never heard of this. I’ve never seen any posts on any Subaru forum I’m a part of regarding such an issue either. It almost kinda sounded made up actually. I scoured online and found online one person with this issue with a Subaru engine, and it only happened because the engine he had salvaged from the wrecker had sat outside for 2 years and wasn’t drained properly.
I insisted they try a troubleshooting technique I thought of over the weekend (and surprisingly agreed to it) and they inserted the oil feed line into the drain line, without the turbo installed, and see if oil would still burn (completely eliminating the turbo out of the system). Sure enough they confirm that the engine was not burning oil, like I thought. I asked if oil was overflowing out the drain line (seeing if anything was clogging it up) and they said they didn’t notice anything.
In the meantime on my brother’s advice, with the turbo out, it took a bit of convincing as well but managed to ask them to replace the exhaust side seal/ring in the turbo anyway, for peace of mind for everyone involved. While they would do this, the shop now also insisted that suddenly the drain back line from the turbo to the oil pan was too low, and I was explained that the turbo’s fine, and that there’s good pressure going in, so it must be the drain line suddenly. They felt it was sitting below the oil line, causing oil to back up in the line into the turbo and seep out the seal.
Now, after 7 years of this setup under my ownership, I was confused as to how suddenly this is now an issue. They offered to relocate the drain line higher on the oil pan and patch it since the car’s up on the hoist; and for an extra fee of course. I called my brother, who felt I had already spent enough with them, and after some relunctant hummin’ and haw’in’ we agreed to go for it, so that if there was still an issue I could again return it to them. I called them back and told the shop to go ahead. Though we felt this may have been a ‘make work’ job. A job that’s not 100% necessary, but still billable. I asked them if the oil pan wasn’t too thin for them to work with and the re-assured it was not and that “we do this stuff all the time”.
I got called 2 days later that the turbo is back in with a new exhaust side seal and that the drain line’s been mounted higher. I asked if it filled the shop with smoke like last time and they said it so far hasn’t. They then proceeded to say “Well, one of the 2 [drain line relocation vs replacement of the oil seal] solved the problem!”. I raised a bit of an eyebrow and thought, ‘What, you don’t know?’. But I was just glad to have my car back again that night and not have it be an embarrassment. Before after the new turbo was put in, about a minute of idling the smoke would start billowing out. I idled it outside their shop for 10 minutes and had minimal smoke by comparison this time.
I drove away and kept an eye on any smoke in my mirror and once in a while they’re still be some smoke visible here and there. I thought this time I’m actually burning off what’s been pouring into the exhaust this past week.
3rd visit:
The next day I go to leave for work, and now I have a large puddle of oil running from out underneath my car. I left a similar pool of oil at my parking spot at work and in my parents’ driveway as well. Clean oil, left right under where the engine would be. Glanced up and you could see oil drops forming on the tip of the drain plug. Ugghhh… fine, I’ll take it back. Maybe 3rd times’ the charm.
I called again this time informing them of the leak. And again there was some defensiveness on their part and was advised that they noticed “a lot of oil on the frame rails” last time my car was up on the hoist. I’m like, ‘Frame rails?!’ I advised the shop that I wasn’t in the habit of pouring oil down the walls of my engine bay, but did recall a CV boot blow up on me about a year ago, and that there might still be some grease here and there where I couldn’t get my hand in to clean it. After this extra convincing they once again agreed to look at my vehicle. In an attempt on my part to make it more worthwhile on their part, I also offered to drop off a new fitting for the drain line while they were at it seeing as how the pan had to come off.
Brought it in later that day, and was informed the fitting I had brought in couldn’t be used as the threads were NPT and the pan is too thin to work with. I agreed but suggested a nut be used to hold the fitting on and was advised such fittings do not exist in NPT, so brought it back home with me. I was told that if it is the pan they’d bring in the ‘correct’ fitting(s) for me, but I was left a bit confused as to how earlier the pan wasn’t too thin to relocate the drain line, but was now too thin to change the fitting I got.
I get another call the next day. They said they found the leak and that it is from the oil pan. They re-sealed it to the block properly (no oil pan gasket in my case) but the patch they made when relocating the drain line was leaking and that “no matter how many times we hit it, there’s a pinhole that won’t go away” because the pan’s too thin to work with. They advised me to find another oil pan and they’ll change it out and re-do and/or change the fitting for the drain line as well.
I now found myself at the end of my rope. I thought, ‘So now they want me to find and pay for another oil pan that they buggered up? I’ll just fix it myself at home with JB Weld...’ So I asked them, ‘So... are you going to charge me for this?’ They say, “Well ya, it’s our shop time.” I said, ‘Well that’s disappointing’. They then replied with, “But there’s this great stuff out there called JB Weld!” I though to myself ‘I think he thinks I may not know as much as I do.’ I advised him I’m familiar with the product and they advised they could patch the oil pan with it while it’s up on the hoist. I asked again if I’d be charged for this and I was advised again that I would as this would take up the shop’s time. This I found, was my last straw. I though to myself, I will just do this myself at home.
I then told them to take the car off the hoist, and leave it outside for pickup, and that I will be repairing this myself. I picked up the car that night and wanted to discuss their workmanship at this point, but thought I first wanted my car back in my physical possession and wanted to take care of the leak.
Brought the car home to find this:
This is why you take art in high school. So you can paint JB Weld, onto oil pans, with a screwdriver, cause of someone else’s poor weld. Fixed it myself, for free, and in 20 minutes, to this. No, not be pretty, but stopped the leak. Hardest part was just waiting for the stuff to dry.
Showing this work they’ve done to a few people drew laughter, except from a ticketed welder friend who nearly came out of his skin. This is the work they charged me extra for pushing my bill’s total even further into the 4 figure range.
Needless to say, I wasn’t satisfied with the way this who deal went down. I thought about it for a couple of days, drew pieces of advice from people I trust, and called them back (as I said I would to update them on my self-fix).
4th visit:
I called and let them know that I fixed the leak myself and now it’s now taken care of. They then invited me to come back once I found another oil pan they’ll re-do everything for me for another additional fee.
Here is where I thanked the shop for their time and thanked them for putting up with me, but advised them that they’ve done enough. I explained to them that every time I bring the car in it comes back worse. I told them that my oil pan’s leaking, from their weld, from a relocation of a drain line that may or may not have been necessary. I told them I’m now even starting to question if the turbo needed replacement and the original could’ve just been rebuilt; and if I was simply ‘sold’ a turbo that was inconveniencing them. I then approached them with my offer that I would like all the funds associated with the oil pan/drain line work refunded as this still isn’t fixed and that I’d like my old turbo back. I didn’t pound my fists on the table asking for everything, but essentially half the work that was done. I felt this was a reasonable solution. They advised me they wouldn’t be able to do this. I told them that they’re welcome to take this stance, however I would then be calling back Visa to let them know that negotiations have failed and that I’d be filing a chargeback for the whole amount and filing a claim with the BBB. There was about 30 seconds of silence and I was told to let them call me back in an hour.
I get a call the next day with minutes left on Friday that they have agreed to my offer. Being that the weekend was coming up, I said I could make it in next week. I show my face after the weekend and they did present me with a business cheque for all the money associated with the work done to and with the oil pan and drain line. I asked for my old turbo back and I was now being informed that they had to return to the turbo as a core to Turbonetics. I asked that my new turbo was new and not remanufactured, and I was then informed that Turbonetics wants their product/materials back. Even though I still owned my old turbo, I felt this was the best/most I could get back of the situation and by then was so uncomfortable being in and around this shop and its staff, that I sacrificed it and left it behind. I could’ve probably sold it for about $200 in its condition and get a bit more back in my pocket.
Upon leaving I was told that what the shop should’ve done from the beginning is “do our own diagnosis”. I took this as a bit of an insult on my brother’s and I abilities to troubleshoot and retorted with, that in hindsight, I should’ve just bought a turbo online and just swapped it out myself.
I completely regret the entire, month-long situation and should’ve stuck to the same plan as always of doing my own repairs.
I have since held onto my unusable fitting, ordered a non-existent ½” NPT nut I found online and ordered a new oil pan from the dealer as they’re surprisingly cheap. Currently I’m still getting noticeable puffs blue here and there while the car’s warming up while I drive. Though not as bad as previously when the turbo first started leaking earlier this year. Oil pan’s not leaking though! I’ll update this post with my once my fix with my bros is done.
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