Contractor help past finish date

[Glove]

the whole time im reading this thread, im just wondering,

why in the hell did you hire these guys in the first place?

just by looking at people and talking to them you should be able to tell if their crooks or not

[Jas29]

I did not hire them my grandparents did I got involved after he was already hired
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[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by Glove

the whole time im reading this thread, im just wondering,

why in the hell did you hire these guys in the first place?

just by looking at people and talking to them you should be able to tell if their crooks or not

That's a mighty bold statement.

I'm sorry, there are 100's of people that continuously send money to aid the millions of nigerian princes out there desperate in their search for North Americans to aid in transferring capital.

As a contractor, I can tell you that I've had people hand me checks, and cash with a set of purchase orders and contracts that I drew up myself. As a landlord, I have new tenants hand me cash and checks upon signing a lease that I printed off my own computer. Now, obviously, I'm not out to rip people off, but what about me says that to people? A gleam in my eye? My shoes?

Maybe if you could provide tips of what to look for in people, the whole con industry would disappear over night.

In short, it fucking happens. Not a single contractor that I know, and I deal with plenty, but not a one starts a job without a check in their hand, or a visa number in their terminal(actually, my paving guys didn't need anything, which I found weird), unless, they have worked for people before and know they are good for it. And many a contractor has an equal amount of stories about customers that didn't pay.

I had one. We all have. Mine was waiting on a Nigerian scam to pay him money so he could pay off the money he owed. No fucking joke. He meets me in a bar and slides this piece of paper over to me that describes in detail all this money he's got coming. I had to bite my tongue. He took all the money from the job(I was a sub-con) and sent it to them, hoping to have it back to finish the job. His business partner was out 15k I think on his visa that was maxed with parts and supplies. I took the hit and walked-I couldn't handle that much stupid.

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by Glove

the whole time im reading this thread, im just wondering,

why in the hell did you hire these guys in the first place?

just by looking at people and talking to them you should be able to tell if their crooks or not

Sometimes it's easy to spot a sketchy GC, but other times it's not. There are a lot of people out there that are great at looking very professional and saying the right things. However, once it comes to the build and how they interact with their subs, then the truth can start to slowly come out.

Good GC's will usually not push their services and will give out a list of previous clients in order to show their work. A bad GC is like a used car salesman; sleek talk and just pushy enough to usually get their way regardless of what their client wants.

[highfive]

Originally Posted by Jas29

The problem with this is i wont have any money left over to complete the job once i pay the subs that have done there work like the company that provided the carpets and tiles is all done. I can afford to pay them with out losing money but what do i do if other people come after me for money that i don't have like the company that provided the the cabinets and counter tops

Also i don't think the liens will affect my grandparents because they do not have a mortgage on the house and they are not planning on selling it unless the lien will affect other things but to my understanding it shouldn't affect them

That's when you list out the work finished and the payments made to the contractor.

Carpets - Done - Paid to Contractor on X Date. (Show proof of contractor signing the receipt)
Cabinets - Partial Finish - Not Paid Yet.

etc.

The problem is that sub contracts can lien your grandparents property. And not being an asshole, but if anything happens to your grandparents or they are going through the stages of planning a will or change of ownership. That lien will be a problem for you.

It's just better to get the sub contracts AND the contractor on site and list what's been paid and what's not. If the contractor is shady, call him out on it that the money has been paid and that the sub contracts should go after him.

I remember in business law that even if a contractor runs, the house is still liable for works/materials done.

[Jas29]

So i talked to my lawyer today and tried to follow the steps in which he told me to take by calling the contractor and trying to take care of it before escalating the situation.

It didn't work i called him and he called me a stupid kid and that i don't know anything and i should shut up. Then i told him i changed the locks on the door and if he comes to the property again it will be considered trespassing which caused more yelling and swearing at me and that he will only talk to my dad or grandfather he then yelled some more and hung up

tom my dad is going to call him and tell him exactly what the lawyer said and see if he agrees with it.

The lawyer told me to offer him this

1)That i will keep 10% of the total of the project for 56 days after the completion date to make sure no liens are taken out on the property (liens can be taken out up to 45 days after the work is completed)

2) That the contractor and my grandparents go through the house and see how much work is left to do and we hold back that amount in till it is complete

3) That he signs a paper prepared by the lawyer stating that all subs are paid in full by the contractor and that he takes care of liens that are put on the house

(Note: #1 and #2 added together equals the total amount that he is due)

Edit: Highfive i know where u are coming from and they have already taken care of their will and are were in okay shape before this started my grandfather has been prescribed anti-depressants by his doctor for stress so this is taking a toll on them and that is 1 of the reasons i stepped in

[GLOW]

that's a tough situation hope it works out for you.

[Jas29]

Update: He called my dad in the morning and my dad told him we aren't doing anything till our lawyer tells us too... He said those are fighting words and that he's going to keep bothering us day and night he also threatened me telling my dad that he's going to rough up your son.

We told the lawyer and he said I can apply for a restraining order or get a police report made
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[Lomac]

Originally Posted by Jas29

Update: He called my dad in the morning and my dad told him we aren't doing anything till our lawyer tells us too... He said those are fighting words and that he's going to keep bothering us day and night he also threatened me telling my dad that he's going to rough up your son.

We told the lawyer and he said I can apply for a restraining order or get a police report made
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Funny how threat of force is usually someone's last resort when they know they don't have a legal leg to stand on.

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by Jas29

Update: He called my dad in the morning and my dad told him we aren't doing anything till our lawyer tells us too... He said those are fighting words and that he's going to keep bothering us day and night he also threatened me telling my dad that he's going to rough up your son.

We told the lawyer and he said I can apply for a restraining order or get a police report made
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police report first. my friend had harassment/threat issues before & it's very important to leave a paper trail of evidence/reports of his actions. this could be ongoing and if/when it really builds up you want the history documented for a strong case. so far it sounds like he gave you a threat of bodily harm and harassment. hope it works out for you and you can get this scumbag out of your life.

[Ferra]

Getting a lien registered and enforced is fairly expensive, most contractors won't bother if they are owed less than $1000-$2000. Most of them have no idea how the construction lien works...they just like to use it as an empty threat
To enforce the lien, they have to take you to court within 45 days of the lien registration..(superior court only, no small claim court, which means they have to hire a lawyer and more $$$)
Reason why there is usually a 10% holdback for 45 days in construction project is so that the owner can use the holdback money to pay off any unpaid subcontractor and liens


Exactly how much work is left and how much money is still owed?
At this point, If i were you i really wouldn't let him come back to finish the project...

[Jas29]

he called us yesterday night like 10 times only answered 4 times recorded the first 2 then went to go file a police report but the police station was closed. He was drunk

8500 is still left to pay him probably a bit over 4500 left to do

he also took out the banister on Thursday we then changed the locks later that day

[quasi]

Originally Posted by Gridlock

As a contractor, I can tell you that I've had people hand me checks, and cash with a set of purchase orders and contracts that I drew up myself. As a landlord, I have new tenants hand me cash and checks upon signing a lease that I printed off my own computer. Now, obviously, I'm not out to rip people off, but what about me says that to people? A gleam in my eye? My shoes?

Maybe if you could provide tips of what to look for in people, the whole con industry would disappear over night.

In short, it fucking happens. Not a single contractor that I know, and I deal with plenty, but not a one starts a job without a check in their hand, or a visa number in their terminal(actually, my paving guys didn't need anything, which I found weird), unless, they have worked for people before and know they are good for it. And many a contractor has an equal amount of stories about customers that didn't pay.

Everything I've seen has been the complete opposite and I've been doing this for a long time. Never any money up front, usually don't see any money until at least 45-60 days after starting a job. I like the way you've experienced a lot more, the subs have all the risk they finance the job yet they are last to be paid. It's such a fucked industry.

Maybe we should get out of commercial and into residential.


OP, sounds like you have your ducks in a row. Don't back down and keep doing what you're doing. I'm sorry your grandpa is having such a hard time with his reno this contractor sounds like a complete fuck. My mom actually hired some contractor to do her bathroom earlier this year and it was a total clusterfuck. She used a company who's name I can't remember and they sent out a subcontractor to do the work on there behalf. The guy they sent out estimated it and did the work. He totally fucked it up, 3 weeks into the bathroom reno he wasn't even half done and she complained about his shitty workmanship, he was doing so much wrong. Company comes out, see's work and fires the guy. They have to rip out all the work he did and restart and send someone else out. On top of all that when the guy priced it he priced it way to low. I estimate for a living and IMO that company probably lost at least $6,000 on my moms bathroom renovation but to there credit they finished the job and at the end of the day everything was made right. Even in bad times there are still people out there who stand behind there work and the end product.

[Jas29]

the lawyer told us its going to cost us to much to sue him, he said he would tell us to sue him if the bill was higher

so it looks like we are out of luck

[Lomac]

How about small claims court?

[quasi]

Originally Posted by Jas29

the lawyer told us its going to cost us to much to sue him, he said he would tell us to sue him if the bill was higher

so it looks like we are out of luck

It's a catch 22 really. If it was a larger amount even if you won you probably wouldn't get any money because this guy would just deplete any assets and reopen as Dipshit Contracting 2013 LTD. Generally speaking if you can use companies that have been around for a long time with a good reputation you might pay a little more but you get what you pay for.

These are the kind of companies I compete with a lot of time with my bids. It's a joke because they'll price a large commercial job like a highrise for less then my cost. Materials are a fixed cost and everybody pays close to the same. Labour again although can be slightly different and on tight bids can make the difference but the fluctuation isn't that huge.I constantly see people bidding at or below my cost and you know damm well they aren't making any money and if even the slightest thing goes wrong they are losing their shirt not to mention they have nothing to cover there overhead. It's funny but at the same time it's not because you know damm well there going to go bankrupt but the next day there back in business under a new name and people still sell to them, it's mind blowing.

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by quasi

It's a catch 22 really. If it was a larger amount even if you won you probably wouldn't get any money because this guy would just deplete any assets and reopen as Dipshit Contracting 2013 LTD. Generally speaking if you can use companies that have been around for a long time with a good reputation you might pay a little more but you get what you pay for.

These are the kind of companies I compete with a lot of time with my bids. It's a joke because they'll price a large commercial job like a highrise for less then my cost. Materials are a fixed cost and everybody pays close to the same. Labour again although can be slightly different and on tight bids can make the difference but the fluctuation isn't that huge.I constantly see people bidding at or below my cost and you know damm well they aren't making any money and if even the slightest thing goes wrong they are losing their shirt not to mention they have nothing to cover there overhead. It's funny but at the same time it's not because you know damm well there going to go bankrupt but the next day there back in business under a new name and people still sell to them, it's mind blowing.

even big developers make shell companies too

[Jas29]

it looks like my brother has scared him into doing the work, he told my brother to make a list and he will do everything on the list and nothing more and we are okay with that just want to finish it so our grandparents don't have to worry about it, its taking a toll on them

Edit: well he did some of the work and now he called again and told us to give his money and we said the same thing then 3 hours later he called and said he took out all the cabinets so now we are going there to check if he did or not and then going to file a police report for theft and for making threats to a child

[Jas29]

Canadian laws are a joke dispatcher said its not considered theft since he was allowed into the house... They are now coming to file a police report for threats to a minor

Edit: nvm they are to busy
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[GLOW]

unfortunate that no one was there to monitor his work to ensure he did not do damage/theft to the home. now you'll have to change the locks as well if they still have the keys.

i'd check with the cop when they come to make a report for threats if what he did was indeed theft or not. i question if police dispatchers are police officers which leads me to question their knowledge of the law as an expert.

[Jas29]

We have pictures of everything inside the house and now took pictures showing the things that were missing

Edit: he called and told us he took the stuff

Edit: 7 hours since non emergency number was called so far no 1 has come to make a report or tell us whats going on
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[Jas29]

still no police report but 2 liens put on the house now

4000 + tax + fees from the painter
and
8000 + fees from the contractor -Bittu Dhillion- JD bros renovations also runs under Arsh Plumbing and heating LTD

[GLOW]

what is the next step? go to court to show proof of payment to the GC?

[G-spec]

Cut your ties with these idiots now !

They already committed more than one criminal offence, and yet you keep asking them to go back and finish the work..... do you REALLY want these guys in your house again, do you REALLY trust them to do anything right at this point ?

You don't owe them any money because they haven't finished the project, it's that simple....
Use the money to find a reputable contractor that will finish the job without stealing and threatening in their tactics.

And tell them to go fuck themselves and sue you if they want, the judge will laugh at them if it even ever gets to in front of a judge, and in this case unfortunately it would end up as a civil case not a criminal one, which is unfortunate because there is obviously a criminal element there with the stealing.

Dont believe a word the police dispatchers or any of those idiots tell you, if you want real answers go pay a lawyer for a simple sitdown that will explain to you everything you need to know, it beats coming in here asking us for advice.

[Jas29]

Gspec thanks for the response and me and my brother told my grandparents not to allow them into the house the first time he threatened but my grandfather became sick and the rest of the family told us to try to get the contractor to do the work so he doesn't become more sick.

The criminal part of the case that comes in is him taking stuff out that was in the house to begin with and that he wasn't supposed to change in the first place. The dispatcher said we allowed him into the house so its not a theft but we asked if u hire a maid and she steals ur jewlery is that not considered theft and she didn't know what to say

We have talked to a lawyer and know what steps to follow. He also told us that once a contractor puts something into ur house he cannot legally take it out and that it is a criminal offence

I'm posting in this thread to keep a log and some of the responses in this thread are helpful
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