How much you make a year?

100k/year per person in Vancouver would let you survive comfortably.

I'm just thinking for a family who wants a house to raise kids in and a good private school, 100k isn't going to cut it

That's without even considering the nice BMW or yearly family vacation or college fund!

I apologize for offending anyone, I've had peeks at "the good life" and it is truly shocking how well the other side lives

Honestly, no matter how much I make, I still can't "afford" the things you've mentioned. For a dude like you, I can't imagine you bringing your kid to private school either.

The thing is, you don't need to go to a good private school. My wife and I are extremely happy and grateful that we had public (free) education and we wouldn't trade it for anything. "NO RAGRETS" as the tattoo say lol. We loved our elementary and high school in Richmond and the different cultures/backgrounds of friends that came along the way. I need my kids to learn to be poor before they can learn to attain wealth or else you'll never know how to keep that money and just piss it away on shit. I've been to private schools in HK before I immigrated to Canada that cost roughly $3k/month cad with a hefty debenture, and we're talking about the early 90's here. Aside from knowing a bunch of spoiled kids with rich parents, I don't see any perks in going private.

You also don't need a house to raise a kid. You need good parents to raise a kid and what I found is the less money you have, the better parents you'll be. Think hard about this.

Anyone nowadays can lease a BMW if that's the thing you strive for in life and vacations can simply be camping within the province. Just open your eyes and see all the great (almost free) stuff you can do locally. Vancouver truly is one of a kind.

Your peak might have only lasted for a very short time and let's be honest, you were coked out most of the time right? You wouldn't even know the first thing about living the "good life." The other side could be "living well" but that has nothing to do with being happy or comfortable with life. Mo money mo problems son.

Mind sending me a free copy of your book? I'd love to read it.

Sorry if I went OT on this thread.

Back on topic. Wife and I decided that we will rent and will officially be moving back during Chinese New Years. Thanks 4444 and noclue for the help and Jason for being jason.

Those that just "good life" in your opinion. But it's not good life for general.

If by good life you are suggesting having everything at your disposal, that's not good life. It's just materialism.

Higher income simply allows one to access more stuff.. but it doesn't make one happy.

Back on topic... I'm also moving back to Van to stay relatively closer to family (my wife and son is in SoCal most of the time and the flight from east to LAX is horrible and I'm tired of catching redeyes.) Should I buy or rent?

My family makes a decent income, but with the price in Vancouver being so high, I'm not sure of pouring that much money into it. Nevertheless, I am not seeing much rental options for 3br house/townhouses. They either ask some outrageous rent or are quite old.

Good luck but be prepared to find a lot of rental ads that say "no pets" or "pet ok with damage deposit" and then they say no when they find out you own 3 dogs.

Just for shits and giggles, I did a search for the keyword "seafair" on CL and most of the ads say no pets.

One of the biggest reasons I want to purchase a place is to not deal with the hassle of trying to find a pet friendly place, and without bullshit restrictions on breeds/sizes. That "vicious" pitbull mix over in my avatar has ruled out more than a few hundred places when me and my wife have been looking for places to rent.

you're right. Its not going to be easy and that's why I have to rent a house instead of a townhouse or condo. Especially for bigger houses, they're more acceptable of pets because honestly, who else would rent a house this big? I got a good 6 months to find one so I think it should be fine. Thanks for the heads up tho.

Since building a house in Vancouver is a typical 2 years endeavor. As long as you sign a long lease and have good relationship with the land lord. I don't see any problems. Large houses rentals are plentiful.

IMO the only reason private schools are advantageous is if you want to send your child to the ivy leagues. If not, public secondary is good enough here. I think people send their kids who are not bright enough to benefit from private schools just to brag to their friends.

If your family is in socal, why not live up the bachelors lifestyle one more time? Rent a 1bed in yaletown and live like multicartual!

i cannot make solid decisions on anecdotes, and that's all that Vancouver has, anecdotes, stories, 'I heard' etc.

and, it's always 'different here' - i bet it's different in London, Singapore, LA, San Diego, NY, etc. all the other popular, overpriced cities (to name a few).

personally, I see the main driver being cheap money, I can prove that in the states based on transparent data, we know shit all in Canada

this is where racism comes into it, and Vancouver has a real xenophobia issue - most large cities in Canada have a monster chinese language community, i.e. richmond and huge parts of Vancouver/Burnaby. These are Canaidan residents and citizens. Why else would bus advertising in Richmond be in Chinese? bc companies want to make it easy as heck to sell, and if that means pandering to the buyers (i.e. Canadian-chinese residents), so be it.

i'm not saying there aren't foreign investors, there are, there are in every desireable city, but this is yet another anecdote, it is not proof of anything. equating chinese language websites with 'all buyers are chinese' is a stretch.

and the main result of all of this, no matter what the truth is, is that renting in vancouver isn't that expensive - if you're priced out of a good neighbourhood in Vancouver, what would you rather do, buy a place in surrey and commute 2 hrs each way, or rent in the 'hood of your desire. this is totally an individual choice, but to me, i'd rather enjoy my life than worry about me not owning real estate... there are other assets (that i think are better) to invest in, so rent and invest the saved money between owning and renting.

life is simple when you want it to be

i totally agree with your points, but to give perspective of someone that wants to have financial independence as soon as possible, i'll just say this, earning less than $100K per year in Vancouver, living what I define as a good life, does not leave much excess for investing for that later time of financial independence.

Now, don't get me wrong, i have very high standards, many of which Vancouver could not fulfill - but i also wasn't raised in Vancouver, so my expectations are different. And some people want to be able to retire at 50, 55 age range - i think that's VERY difficult to do in Vancouver. So i suppose it's all down to what you want. Completely agree, the free things are great in vancouver, parks, coast line, community (kind of)... but i know multicartual wants a life of ho's, blow, and whatever else, i want a life of great lifestyle, huge culture, see the world, and retire VERY young - sub $100K i couldn't get that, equally you moved away from Vancovuer for a reason and it worked out great for you.

but your point is fully taken and accepted, some of us just want way more than the average, but others just want safety, good education, security, healthcare, non harsh climate, vancouver gives you that in droves.

I wonder why when the americans were buying up vancouver and whistler properties like it was on a 2 for 1 sale during the clinton dot com boom, nobody whined and resented them? Or when Albertan "oil money" bought up property in the Okanagan and yaletown in 2004-2007? But you see some Chinese kid with a Ferrari and hear about how some mainlanders bought a $5m house in point grey people resent them. The media spins it like that as well.

FYI 2nd or 3rd generation CBC's have mainlander sounding last name's as well.

i agree with the above entirely (both).

i didn't go to private school, but through a lot of hard work and thankfully a good brain, I have done very well. My journey would have been a lot easier with a private school name to get me into an Ivy league school - way more doors would have been opened.

i'm unsure whether my children will attend private school, as you do get the toffs in private school, and I came from nothing attaining everything i have through hard work and sacrifice. my children will do the same.

that is stupidity on the part of the landlord.

one of my tenants has 3 dogs. so what, we took a damage deposit, they've been my best tenants going on 3 years now. What's the worst they can do? it's all tiled floors, maybe chew a bit of drywall, that's hardly a huge cost to replace/paint.

mind you, i had another tenant with a little yappy shitty dog that they used to lock in one of the bedrooms, and that dog fucked up the carpet - oh well, replaced carpet in 1 room, couple hundred bucks, their damage deposit covered that (they were shit (no pun) tenants)

i think people that overlook owners with dogs are idiots - most dogs are great, and it's easy to de-dog a place, shampoo carpets, wash walls, air out for a weekend...

but people are short sighted. humans usually do WAY more damage to rentals than pets.

A good tenant with a dog will always take good care of the place just so he/she can stay longer and not have to find another place.

A bad tenant does not need a dog to fuck your place up. He/she can and will do so no matter what.

I see your angle on this subject. You're more focused on the opportunities/financial freedom of this city rather than the natural beauty and social services of this community. I agree with you 100% and I'll even add that if you ever consider yourself a risk taker or business person, GET THE HELL OUT OF VAN and try your luck elsewhere before you lose the passion, strength and money.

Here's what I've gathered over the years. Vancouver is probably the worst place to start a business and try to turn a profit. It is so easy to get a "decent" paying job that requires no risk, no investment, no stress, and still give you what I call and consider a comfortable life in Vancouver.

Here are the reasons why.
1) Wages
2) Taxes
3) Economic rate of return

1) Wages: No matter what type of business you plan to start, you'll eventually require employees. Employment is extremely expensive here and most of the time, your employee will pocket more change than you by the end of the day. My friend who owns a semi successful food court joint told me this, "dude, the dish washing lady drives a Benz, how the fuck am I gonna make money?"

2) Taxes: Taxes are so high and ridiculous, it deters entrepreneurism and just forces people to max their intentions to screw with the system. We get taxed for everything in BC, you don't care much because you just got use to it all your life. Try living some where else that doesn't tax you every opportunity it gets. ie HK. I just bought a car, and I still can't believe I had to pay 12% on used. Seriously, in a car's lifetime, you'll be able to tax the full value of the car. Just forces people to screw with ICBC and in return requires a lot of employees to keep things in check and in return cost you the tax payer more money to feed those mouths. You continue to pay for it again and again and again. This is just a recent example on taxes.

3) Economic rate of return:
If you start your business and you find that you make less than what you use to get in the open market, then you've failed. You're wasting good time and money on something that doesn't give you a better return compared to just getting a job.

If you start a business and you make the same as you would in the open market, you've failed. You just bought yourself a job, that's all. That money you invested could have been utilized better by doing anything else.

If you start a business and make more than what you would in the open market, then you need to calculate your ROI based on money and time invested. That's the business part of the business. It's not about how much you make, it's about how fast and efficient you can make it compared to anything else you can do or invest in. Maximizing your potential for gains and increasing your net worth, these two things basically sums up financial success.

With all that said, these are the reasons why I left right after post secondary. It really sucked to leave and my wife and I dream about moving back everyday since the first day 8 years ago. Vancouver is a great place to work if you're not a risk-taker and require stability. If you take "money making" out of the equation, Vancouver is the best place in the world and I'm not just comparing HK to Van.

well said. finally someone who actually gets it!

i got out, but i actually went to a higher tax jurisidction (21% VAT - the european way), and the top tax rate is over 50% (most expats get great tax reductions, though), but then again you get a full (and i mean FULL) pension, and the healthcare here is amazing, so you get what you pay for.

i agree entirely about starting a business, it's too much risk in BC, though ironically, the corporate tax rate isn't bad at all, the personal tax is bad, and the consumption tax not great - you pay a lot relative to what you get. I feel i pay an awful lot where i am, but get an awful lot in return (partly being absolute peace and happiness in the ppl here, which actually is worth quite a lot as you get older)

I do a lot of business in SE asia, and boy, is that the place to own a business, most places we pay 0-5% on corproate income, singapore is 17%, but if you're paying anything above 10%, you're doing it wrong! if you're good enough, you can get 0% tax in singapore for a while.

The US needs to totally rejig their tax system, 30/35% on corporate is a dead model, even japan is now going from 38% to 35% with plans to go sub 30%, UK is 20% tax rate, Netherlands 25%...

but yes, your point is well taken, being a start up with employees is tough in BC, but being an employee is only good for people with no desire - if you have desire and are a top performer, you can get so much more elsewhere

Such an interesting last few pages in the thread.

NKC One, I also grew up in the Seafair area, and went to school at Hugh Boyd. I'm probably about the same age as you, but I stayed in Vancouver after university.

My family income is over $100K. We're comfortable and happy. I own (lol, well the bank owns mostly) a 3 bedroom townhouse, and we have two older cars. Is it a good life? Well, depends on how you define it. We can eat out pretty much anywhere we want, take overseas vacations every year, and have fun with friends. But we definitely don't buy very many luxuries and don't drive new cars. I'm always shocked by how many friends drive luxury cars and make $1K lease payments; they must not be saving any money or are powered by parents.

So for once I actually agree with multicultural; if you want to live luxuriously in Vancouver, you need to make more than $100K. But as NKCOne put it, money does not equal happiness. I had some friends from Australia come over and they were shocked how cheap BMWs were here. In Australia, they have huge import tarriffs on import cars, and a mid level 3 series is easily 100K. They asked why everyone doesn't drive a 3 series - well, a lot of people do drive them here, but it doesn't make people any happier.

In terms of jobs, I don't fully agree that you can't be successful owning your own business here. I know some plumbers and dentists making $300K+ a year here, but they definitely work hard. I do agree that there is far less opportunity for employees because of the lack of head offices and industry. We can't all work for lululemon, lol. The way I see it, if you want to earn well north of six figures, you need to be either in high end sales (be it recruiting, engineering, real estate, wine or whatever), or be rich and connected enough to be part of the old boys club here.

Occasionally, I do dream of working overseas, or even in Calgary, to make waaay more money and have more job satisfaction. But then I ride my bike, smell the air, see the trees, and I realize I have it pretty good in Vancouver, even with all the costs.

^ I agree with your comments. If you make $250K+ you can live a pretty fun lifestyle that includes nice living arrangements, toys, and some money to go out and have fun. However, you if you make $60K a year, you can still live a very nice life in Vancouver. You might not be ripping around in a nice Porsche, but you could have a nice BRZ. You might not be wasting a ton of money doing bottle service at Bar None, but you could be drinking some nice bourbon with friends at Spanish Banks. Don't get me wrong, Vancouver is stupid expensive, but the sheer physical beauty and things you can do (Grouse Grind, beaches, Granville Island, quality inexpensive restaurants) in Vancouver that don't cost allot of money are still really awesome. I am older now and make more money, but I wouldn't say that I am allot happier because I make more money. When it is all said and done, it is my family, friends, and great city I live in that makes me happy. If someone said to me you can make 2x your current income, but you have to live in Regina, I would say no thanks. Nicer material things in the big picture are really not that important (maybe for your ego only).

Because wife and kid comes back whenever they have a chance. Wife doesn't like SoCal all that much and is there only because of an important grant for her career/research. And they often have some break between one part of research to the next.

That plus my parents/in-laws come here every so often since they are all retired.

I think given my budget and location preference (not crossing bridges), I like what I am seeing online in Burnaby near Edmonds station. Any one has comment about that area?

its not really anecdotal. i have seen data for myself. but to post it on the internet would get most of us in trouble as that information is sensitive. like i said, the data is all there, the government just needs to report it, but they wont.


it is based on cheap money. im not denying that. I'm sure that's the number one factor contributing to the increase in price. ild say the second factor is our house horny culture where everyone has to OWN their home.

but to tell me that when you see thousands of foreign money buying million dollar homes and 3 or 4 half a million dollar condos doesnt affect the market is untrue. These people are pumping hundreds of millions into the market place.

:suspicious:
Not sure if you're serious because you drive an Aston Martin.


So a V8 rumble doesn't make all your worries go away? Just Kidding.