Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[hi-revs]

This is why i moved to coquitlam

[Carl Johnson]

Originally Posted by Gululu

no, i wouldn't cast a doubt based on this. massive cash flow has always been flowing out of china since the 80's. define massive. what % in terms of GDP. also the people are really aware (not like they don't know its happening) and the government is cracking down ferociously. and really its not all that bad that these wealthiers are leaving, even if they had parked the money inside china, the people wouldn't benefit a penny from them.

last figure i saw was around $465 billion u.s. in 2011. i can only imagine this figure has risen in the subsequent years after. you don't hear any other country's elites leaving in exodus beside China. the story of China just doesn't add up with 50% of economy in investment.

they CCP can do all it can in manipulating the data and media but the end result will be the same. whether the anti-graft campaign or should we just label is political purge as it's more appropriate will be successful or not is beside the question.

bottom line, the easy money in china has already been made. the smartest and most successful chinese knows it and they are taking their capital to safe harbor like vancouver real estate. the only worry is that the basic fundamental doesn't support the real estate price and once the flight capital stops coming in which inevitably it will, the bottom falls out in this city.

[GLOW]

won't it only bottom out of the money that came in starts leaving? similar to when all the people went back to HK after china took over back in the late 90's. even then the drop didn't seem too big

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Carl Johnson

bottom line, the easy money in china has already been made. the smartest and most successful chinese knows it and they are taking their capital to safe harbor like vancouver real estate. the only worry is that the basic fundamental doesn't support the real estate price and once the flight capital stops coming in which inevitably it will, the bottom falls out in this city.

I don't think we'll see a fire sale in housing - values will eventually plateau, but the Chinese aren't converting their houses to cash to move to another safe haven. Are there safer havens in the world than Canada? We have stable government, robust institutions, good social programs, a temperate climate, and a policy of multiculturalism. And permanent residency is still relatively easy to obtain.

[Carl Johnson]

price going sideway is a possibility but i think it's overly optimistic given how stretched valuation have gotten in this town. and given how financial markets work the faster something goes up the quicker the decline as well. all the positives you laid out about stable government and so on makes sense, but this province has 60 billion dollar in debt and given the current teacher's strike, I'm not sure how sustainable BC's finance really is. I really view the teacher's ongoing job action as a harbinger of things to come. The nurse union and a bunch of other public unions are watching the development closely i'm sure.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Carl Johnson

price going sideway is a possibility but i think it's overly optimistic given how stretched valuation have gotten in this town. and given how financial markets work the faster something goes up the quicker the decline as well. all the positives you laid out about stable government and so on makes sense, but this province has 60 billion dollar in debt and given the current teacher's strike, I'm not sure how sustainable BC's finance really is. I really view the teacher's ongoing job action as a harbinger of things to come. The nurse union and a bunch of other public unions are watching the development closely i'm sure.

I think you missed my point. The Chinese who have bought houses in Vancouver are not going to sell because the province is in debt. These people buy things in cash.

How many jurisdictions in the world have zero debt and offer the same perks that Canada and Metro Vancouver offer for the corrupt Chinese official looking to park his money and to educate his children in peace?

[Carl Johnson]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

I think you missed my point. The Chinese who have bought houses in Vancouver are not going to sell because the province is in debt. These people buy things in cash.

How many jurisdictions in the world have zero debt and offer the same perks that Canada and Metro Vancouver offer for the corrupt Chinese official looking to park his money and to educate his children in peace?

This is not 1990's where the chinese dictionary doesn't even have a definition for mortgage. today almost all chinese use some kind of leverage in buying a real estate locally or back home in china. keep in mind many chinese elites made majority of their wealth in real estate so they are indeed very sensitive to the trend of Vancouver real estate and pay close attention to it. lastly, you need to stop thinking vancouver is the only place these "astronauts" can and will stay.

[Graeme S]

Not just a hot topic here, either:
Comment: Beware the media's 'yellow peril' in property reporting | SBS News

If you are a regular reader of the Australian media you will have undoubtedly noticed that people from Chinese backgrounds are brazenly buying houses and investing in property in this country, and as a result they are apparently destroying your children’s future.

With headlines such as 'Cashed-up Chinese are pricing young out of the property market' (SMH, 14/3) and 'Chinese rush for Australian homes here to stay' (SMH, 6/8), the Fairfax papers in particular have been making it clear that the Asian hordes our forefathers feared are once again becoming a threatening presence. But this time, instead of weird languages and customs, they’ve got loads of cash.

If countries were constructed the same way as school-yard cricket teams then second-generation Chinese would be first picked every time.
Media hysterics are often fueled by ingrained cultural traits, and in Australian culture buying a house is arguably the primary objective of The Game of Life. So anything (or anyone) that could place an obstacle in front of this objective causes grave concern (whether these obstacles are real or perceived). And of course, grave concern is the product that the media most loves to sell.

However, this concern is based on a superficial assessment of the situation. As Bernard Keene wrote in Crikey:

'There are legitimate grounds for concern about housing affordability, but they’ve got little to do foreign property buyers, whether Chinese, Canadian or any other ethnicity (sic, Canadian not being an ethnicity). They’re related to land supply, planning laws, development approval processes, NIMBYism, the balance between local councils and developers financing the necessary infrastructure for new housing, and tax expenditures that encourage investment in existing housing stock.'

Which actually makes anything that expands the number of dwellings available a significant factor in keeping house prices stable. Without this increased investment demand would far outpace supply and affordability would be non-existent.

Of course, with the vast majority of people in Australia either being homeowners or hooked on the dream of an ever increasing asset, the government is incentivised to maintain this array of protectionist measures. It’s the basic maths of democracy.

It's an old narrative, but without the playfulness
What is driving this media narrative of fear about Chinese property investment and immigration is the rise of a new world player. Our previous two world hegemons (the UK and the US) have shared our physical features, so we haven’t needed to be suspicious of them. Especially as our own history is so intertwined with both; first as a colonial offshoot, and secondly as regional Deputy Sheriff.

But the anti-Americanism that has come with US world power has always had a playful tone to it, knowing that these were our tribal cousins. Whether or not the rise of China will share the same playfulness looks unlikely if media outlets like Fairfax continue to pander to this anxiety.

Whether Australia is receiving direct immigration, or simply investment in the property sector from Chinese investors, the outcomes are actually greatly positive.

The myth of foreign investment is that it sucks money out of the country, never to return. Yet, even if this was entirely true, there’s a moral lapse in believing that local people are of greater worth than those in other regions of the world. It may be a human instinct to favour this kind of tribalism, but it’s hardly advantageous to the species as a whole.

Despite China’s recent growth in wealth, it is still a much poorer country than Australia on GDP per capita terms. Surely we as humans wish to continue to lift people out of poverty, regardless of which country they reside in? The fact that China’s growth has also been so massively beneficial to Australia is the beautiful win/win of economic exchange.

While most anti-immigration narratives focus on a irrational fear of “importing problems”, it seems with Chinese immigration the opposite is the case.

Second-generation Chinese have become the most enfranchised group in the country: educationally, skillfully, financially, and socially. If countries were constructed the same way as school-yard cricket teams then second-generation Chinese would be first picked every time.

But rather than rejoice at all this wonderful talent we have in the country, there is a failure to see how this increases our capabilities overall and instead we have developed an angst that whitey may not get picked.

The idea that the success of an individual comes at the expense of someone else is a long disproven economic fallacy, however, the myth remains. Articles such as one in The Age last December titled 'Chinese Buyers In Rush For Melbourne’s Prestige School Zones' (19/12/13) irresponsibly perpetuates this fiction.

Whether Australia is receiving direct immigration, or simply investment in the property sector from Chinese investors, the outcomes are actually greatly positive.
That we live in a globalised age where people with means are able to move relatively freely adds a physical presence to China’s rising power. That this human capacity is transferring itself to Australia and increasing our own prosperity and global influence seems to be ignored.

Of course, China itself has a recognisable soft power issue, and that this rubs off on people of Chinese background is not surprising, but it is also not fair. The actions of a state should never be used to condemn individuals. Particularly the actions of a non-democratic state.

However, fearing Chinese immigration and investment still reeks of conspiracy theory, some kind of strategic plan by the Chinese Communist Party to undermine countries from within. It’s fanciful. It gives these people no credit for wanting to be invested in their new home or region of business, or no credit for wanting to leave an authoritarian regime for an open liberal-democracy.

Due to the increasing wealth of Chinese people, and the fact that China is a country that limits its people choices, Australia will continue to be an attractive option to live, buy and invest. A media narrative that employs a means-tested racism and superficial blame game to demonise this phenomenon risks fuelling a nasty social reaction.

[GLOW]

"yellow peril"?
<daswaisis.gif>

[nckukqwewoob]

east during rush hour is a parking lot

[multicartual]

Originally Posted by Carl Johnson

once the flight capital stops coming in which inevitably it will, the bottom falls out in this city.

[4444]

Ironically, it's the top that falls out when the china money slows, which will result In the local money getting scared resulting in the bottom falling out

[Mr.C]

Originally Posted by 4444

Ironically, it's the top that falls out when the china money slows, which will result In the local money getting scared resulting in the bottom falling out

It wouldn't be too much of a big deal, actually, because let's face it; for those who are able to weather a storm, if you lose 30 or 40 percent on the few million you parked in a house, it's not as bad as losing everything. Life goes on.

But you're right, if this starts happening, the little guys will panic, and that's where the real problem lies.

[CRS]

If there are going to be 10 new towers by brentwood, how does brentwood 1/2 stack up?

Anyone know where the other locations of the towers will be at?

[alphaspec1mens]

Originally Posted by 4444

$3K rent for a $2M property.

the homeowner isn't that smart

you never purchase real estate and the rent doesn't cover all the housing expenses every month

my parents own a few apartment building complexes and they rent out to tenants and every month it cash flows

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by alphaspec1mens

my parents own a few apartment building complexes and they rent out to tenants and every month it cash flows

My parents this, my parents that...

Fuck, you are pathetic...

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by Gumby

My parents this, my parents that...

Fuck, you are pathetic...

he does stuff on his own:

Originally Posted by tiger_handheld

what kind job you have?

Originally Posted by alphaspec1mens

tenant rentals from apartment buildings i can go through life without a job but i do work

i go to the gym and spend time with gf on my free time

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

I don't think we'll see a fire sale in housing - values will eventually plateau, but the Chinese aren't converting their houses to cash to move to another safe haven. Are there safer havens in the world than Canada? We have stable government, robust institutions, good social programs, a temperate climate, and a policy of multiculturalism. And permanent residency is still relatively easy to obtain.

I personally been to Beijing and HK for about 3 weeks. and I totally agree with you about the stable gov, good climate and most of all you actually feel like home. When I was in Beijing our tour guide told us there are certain things we should never ever spoke about in public. Also is very crowded you literally have to fight/line up to get what you want in Beijing/HK. Like literally even as simple as going to the washroom to shit, if you went during rush hour, be prepare to line up for a good 5 to 10mins, take the bus during rush hour you have to wait as long as 30mins, eating out 40+ mins.......... Basically you have to fight for everything.

[alphaspec1mens]

Originally Posted by Gumby

My parents this, my parents that...

Fuck, you are pathetic...

its my $ too. I am the guy who goes help collect it

I probably get more from rental $$$ than you working your job 160hrs a month

[SoNaRWaVe]

seriously, stop trashing threads.

all you do is go collect money? that is such hard work.

you don't get money from rentals, your parents do. then you just ask your mommy and daddy for the money.

we all earn and make more money than you ever will even if its 9-5 or its minimum wage. its an illusion that you make more money than us simply because your parents "give" it to you.

[4doorVIP]

Originally Posted by alphaspec1mens

its my $ too. I am the guy who goes help collect it

I probably get more from rental $$$ than you working your job 160hrs a month

Professional alphamooch

[alphaspec1mens]

Originally Posted by 4doorVIP

Professional alphamooch

its called investor

[4doorVIP]

Originally Posted by alphaspec1mens

you are the guy who pays me rent

IF I was; I would be paying your mommy and daddy, silly alphamooch

[4444]

Originally Posted by alphaspec1mens

its called child of investor

Fixed for accuracy.
Go away.

[Carl Johnson]

China to try former senior planning official for corruption

BEIJING Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:43am EDT



Liu Tienan, then head of the National Energy Administration and deputy chairman of China's National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC), attends a news conference about Spring Festival transport in Beijing in this January 8, 2012 file photograph.
Credit: Reuters/Stringer/Files

(Reuters) - A Chinese court will next week try a former deputy head of its top planning agency with corruption, state media said on Friday, after allegations against him were posted online and as the government pursues a high-profile campaign to root out graft.

Liu Tienan was sacked in May last year. Luo Changping, deputy editor-in-chief of the investigative magazine Caijing, posted accusations on his microblog in late 2012 that Liu was involved in a number of illegal activities.
Liu's trial will open on Wednesday in Langfang in the northern province of Hebei, close to Beijing, the China News Service said, without providing further details.

Liu is accused of abusing his government positions and taking bribes, China's state prosecutor said in June.

He had been deputy head of the National Development and Reform Commission, a powerful body that sets broad economic policies and approves major investments, and also head of energy regulator the National Energy Administration.

Liu is certain to be found guilty as the Communist Party controls the courts, which do not challenge party accusations, especially in graft cases. It has not been possible to reach him for comment.

State media reported that Liu had taken bribes for helping a businessman to defraud banks of loans of more than $200 million in 2011 for an investment in Canada and that key information on Liu's case initially came from a former mistress in Japan.

President Xi Jinping, who became president in March last year, has made fighting pervasive corruption a central theme of his administration, warning the problem is so severe it could threaten the party's very survival.
(Reporting by Ben Blanchard; Editing by Nick Macfie)
China to try former senior planning official for corruption | Reuters


Wouldn't surprise me at all if some of that 200m went into local real estate. as chinese property market deflation accelerating, vancouver will be right behind it.