Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by freakshow

I don't know a lot about the industry, but wouldn't you just use that '1% realty' company?

On buy side, you want higher commission for bigger kickback.

On sell side, 1% works for the most part. There's arguments realtors won't visit your house because of low commission but majority of folks nowadays look for their own deals. So that helps a lot.

Originally Posted by Badhobz

he doesnt take home 45-50k though, remember he has to pay his brokerage usually half of that and then the rest is tax deductible.

its not a great gig if you ask me. Too much dealing with people and you gotta suck a lot of dick both metaphorically and physically

Brokerage recently only take 20-30%. Being tax deductible is normal, everybody pays taxes.

Originally Posted by Badhobz

I think she was worth the $ we gave her. She gave me a huge fruit basket as thanks and i enjoyed eating her lychees

Screw the fruit basket, hand me the red envelope with $3-7K kick back so I can buy another beater!

[Eff-1]

We're actively shopping for a detached home in an area that's high demand, and our budget is entry level. I have a lot of thoughts on realtors.

- If you're a selling agent, and the home is borderline desirable or better, you literally do nothing. List the house. Do an agent open plus a couple public opens. Set an offer date. Cash in.

- If you're a buying agent, you also literally do nothing because the inventory is too scarce. When a home pops up, your buyers have no options really. You view it once, and if you like it, you put in an offer at asking, or very close. Otherwise you wont' get the house. It's not brain surgery. All the realtor does is shuffle some docusigns back and forth and if they're lucky, they cash in.

- If you're new agent hoping to cash in, good luck. The inventory is too scarce. With so few listings, it's cutthroat competition getting them.

Given our market conditions, and the average house price, the commision % for a RE agent is way too high for what the work entails.

Yes, I know there are costs that have to be factored in, but when I see 6 or 7 Tesla/MBs/BMWs parked in front of every agent open that I've been to, that argument is a tough sell. They are clearly not hurting.

[hud 91gt]

Every realtor has a new leased car. It’s a write off plain and simple.

My mom is a realtor. We sold our place recently, and decided to use another realtor(she’s on the island). I did the math, and honestly it wasn’t worth the hassle to list ourselves using my mom’s licence. Yes, we took off a “referral” commission of 25% of the seller agents commission. But the marketing required, the fact that he showed up to every single showing (turning on lights to my exact desired level) yadda yadda is worth it sometimes. If you have have an average place, that works with the $/SqFoot model then I’d agree, what’s the point. If you need to sell your place to get that extra $, or some other unique situation they can be very handy. We also aren’t talking about any of the legal liabilities. You are passing on to your realtor by using one.

In the hot markets? They aren’t worth a dollar. lol. Shit sells itself, and they don’t even put any effort in.

[underscore]

Has anyone actually had them be liable for anything though? At the end of the day it's a sales role so it tends to reward a lot of shady behaviour. On top of that their job is getting easier and easier but their commission is going up which is bs.

Originally Posted by 68style

There's a lot of costs to being a realtor too, the license fee and staging and videos and drones...

Those are probably a couple hundred bucks each? Same deal with the floorplan. But most realtors don't even do it. I've never met anyone that had a place staged but I think that tends to be a few grand?

[6thGear.]

Eons of pages ago I wrote associated costs with being a realtor so I'm not gonna rehash that. Although the 1 thing most people won't realize is an agent is constantly spending. An agent isn't going to make commission and then sit at home. It's back out there out and about which means spending money on potential clients/prospects. Secondly this isn't a "hey its payday this friday". You never know when the next commission cheque is coming ( I get it, not anybodys problem really). Thirdly, all these agents leasing new cars and such. They all have saved up money (or be rich in general) before stepping into the industry. You're not going to get rich right off the bat leasing a new luxury car first year in, hell, I'm still driving my 9 year old Audi S4 and no client has ever looked down on me because of that.

When I have time, I'll post this part up, but REBGV did a stats survey. An agent in the GVRD does average 4 deals a year/$35k commission annually. The rest "10% Medallion agent" makes minimum $150k annually. So some food for thought or discussion lol.

Originally Posted by Phozy

Interesting, I'd welcome a change:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/real-est...nada-1.2031892

The possible change that could come is lower selling commission fee for sellers, but buyers will have to pay buying agent out of their own pockets.

Originally Posted by 68style

Well like when we sold our farm, our realtor pocketed something like $45-50k I can't remember... did I think he deserved $45k? No, I do not... but at the same time, he did hire someone to come out and take aerials with a drone and he did have a tonne of knowledge we didn't have about possibly buried oil tanks and how to get those scans done and legal liabilities for things on the property... and he showed up when my dad dragged his feet clearing shit out to help move stuff on the last possible day before handover. So he didn't do nothing and got his hands dirty... but to say those 2-3 weeks of on/off showings and the stuff he did do was worth a $45-50k pay day IS ridiculous to me. That's most people's entire year of slavery.

You would have known at listing signing what his potential commission would be. Quite easily you could've negotiate that.
You didn't pay for his time or "effort". You paid for his knowledge.

Originally Posted by Gerbs

You can technically release the MLS to the public so we can all have access to the faster system.

But most realtors will block this and gatekeep the industry. My friend who runs a brokerage once said why would we ever let you gets have access to everything and we lose our $300-500K+/year job

No. It's not realtors gatekeeping. It's the real estate board.

Originally Posted by Great68

It's also seems like a line of work where you're always "on". Evenings, weekends, clients don't care.

Some people like that. It's not for me. (I mean, sometimes working evenings & weekends in my line of work happens, but it's an exception, not the norm)

You're correct. 8am or 11pm. Better answer the phone. Or at least send a quick text back. I've been on the phone with an auntie client from 1130pm - 2am before having her talk my ear off. Did I get her listing? YES. Did I sell within her time allotted and price expectations?
YES. Was she extremely happy with me? YES. But what she really valued was my time and listing ear being her confidante. To her that's invaluable.

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

Every realtor has a new leased car. It’s a write off plain and simple.

My mom is a realtor. We sold our place recently, and decided to use another realtor(she’s on the island). I did the math, and honestly it wasn’t worth the hassle to list ourselves using my mom’s licence. Yes, we took off a “referral” commission of 25% of the seller agents commission. But the marketing required, the fact that he showed up to every single showing (turning on lights to my exact desired level) yadda yadda is worth it sometimes. If you have have an average place, that works with the $/SqFoot model then I’d agree, what’s the point. If you need to sell your place to get that extra $, or some other unique situation they can be very handy. We also aren’t talking about any of the legal liabilities. You are passing on to your realtor by using one.

In the hot markets? They aren’t worth a dollar. lol. Shit sells itself, and they don’t even put any effort in.

You don't need a new leased car to have a vehicle write off. Capital cost allowance allows paid off cars / financed cars to be write offs.

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by Eff-1

- If you're a selling agent, and the home is borderline desirable or better, you literally do nothing. List the house. Do an agent open plus a couple public opens. Set an offer date. Cash in.

- If you're a buying agent, you also literally do nothing because the inventory is too scarce. When a home pops up, your buyers have no options really. You view it once, and if you like it, you put in an offer at asking, or very close. Otherwise you wont' get the house. It's not brain surgery. All the realtor does is shuffle some docusigns back and forth and if they're lucky, they cash in.
.

Exactly, buy side there's no negotiations. Seller accepts the cleanest highest offer and if your budget is entry level. You'll have to sit on the sidelines and throw 50+ weak offers.


Sell side, if the seller actually wants to sell, you just sit and wait for offers and pray for something reasonable and it sells. If the homeowner is unreasonable aka wants $100-300K above other comparable, you'll just have to sit and wait for someone to overpay.

There's literally no skill on either side when the market is this scare and competitive. Money does the talking

[hud 91gt]

Absolutely… but a leased car is cheaper. Lol!

[underscore]

Originally Posted by 6thGear.

No. It's not realtors gatekeeping. It's the real estate board.

Who makes up the real estate board?

[donk.]

Originally Posted by Eff-1

.

Yes, I know there are costs that have to be factored in, but when I see 6 or 7 Tesla/MBs/BMWs parked in front of every agent open that I've been to, that argument is a tough sell. They are clearly not hurting.

Every single one of them is a lease with 0$ in the bank

Originally Posted by underscore

Who makes up the real estate board?

InB4 someone missed the joke and answers the self answering question

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by 6thGear.

Eons of pages ago I wrote associated costs with being a realtor so I'm not gonna rehash that. Although the 1 thing most people won't realize is an agent is constantly spending. An agent isn't going to make commission and then sit at home. It's back out there out and about which means spending money on potential clients/prospects. Secondly this isn't a "hey its payday this friday". You never know when the next commission cheque is coming ( I get it, not anybodys problem really). Thirdly, all these agents leasing new cars and such. They all have saved up money (or be rich in general) before stepping into the industry. You're not going to get rich right off the bat leasing a new luxury car first year in, hell, I'm still driving my 9 year old Audi S4 and no client has ever looked down on me because of that.

When I have time, I'll post this part up, but REBGV did a stats survey. An agent in the GVRD does average 4 deals a year/$35k commission annually. The rest "10% Medallion agent" makes minimum $150k annually. So some food for thought or discussion lol.





The possible change that could come is lower selling commission fee for sellers, but buyers will have to pay buying agent out of their own pockets.


You would have known at listing signing what his potential commission would be. Quite easily you could've negotiate that.
You didn't pay for his time or "effort". You paid for his knowledge.



No. It's not realtors gatekeeping. It's the real estate board.



You're correct. 8am or 11pm. Better answer the phone. Or at least send a quick text back. I've been on the phone with an auntie client from 1130pm - 2am before having her talk my ear off. Did I get her listing? YES. Did I sell within her time allotted and price expectations?
YES. Was she extremely happy with me? YES. But what she really valued was my time and listing ear being her confidante. To her that's invaluable.




You don't need a new leased car to have a vehicle write off. Capital cost allowance allows paid off cars / financed cars to be write offs.

It’s a sales job. Like any other sales job you’ve got to grind to continue to get work and clientele.

The downside for more realtor is they don’t have any education or experience that most “professional” sales people have

[68style]

Originally Posted by 6thGear.

You would have known at listing signing what his potential commission would be. Quite easily you could've negotiate that.
You didn't pay for his time or "effort". You paid for his knowledge.

I knew what his rate was, I was just saying I didn't think what he did or knew and the effort committed was worth that kind of payday.

[carsncars]

Saw this article pop up on reddit and basically reminded me of my parents: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/inve...ses-well-into/

James Newcombe, 83, stayed in his roomy home in Georgetown, Ont., as long as he could.

The retired pilot and his wife bought the four-bedroom house in 1982 after moving from another home in the same subdivision. They stayed for years as empty-nesters after their three children moved out, until his wife’s declining health required a move to a retirement home last year.

“The bedroom was on the top floor at home and she couldn’t handle the stairs,” Mr. Newcombe said.

There was no room for the two of them at the facility they preferred locally, so they ended up leaving their friends and long-time community behind and moving to Dundas, Ont., a small town within Hamilton’s boundary, about 60 kilometres south of Georgetown.

“It’s a little hard to move away,” he said. “I would have stayed in the house if we could have,” noting that many of his friends are still in their houses.

Mr. Newcombe’s desire to stay in his family home as long as possible is increasingly par for the course, and the age at which elderly homeowners sell is going up. A Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation report in November found that the sell rate for each five-year age cohort for those aged 75 and over has been trending downward since the early 1990s, putting increasing pressure on the housing market.

The report, titled Understanding the Impact of Senior Households on Canada’s Housing Market, said the sell rate among that age group has fallen about six percentage points in the past 30 years.

Seniors are now less likely to sell their homes before age 85, it said, noting the demographic shift needed to free up a meaningful amount of housing stock won’t start happening for several years. “According to Statistics Canada’s demographic projections, population growth in the 85-and-over age group will be higher from 2030 to around 2040.”

CMHC economist Francis Cortellino wrote a large part of the report, and said “better health and better wealth” is part of what is keeping people at home longer, but so is a lack of options. Those who would be willing to downsize, he said, are often stymied by a lack of housing variety in their communities, so they stay in their homes to remain close to their friends.

“Solutions aimed at increasing supply from existing units (by creating secondary suites or laneway homes, for example) could be increasingly considered.” the report said.

Mr. Cortellino said that in many of Canada’s large cities, seniors living alone or couples over age 75 are more likely than young families to live in single-family homes with three or more bedrooms. (A Globe and Mail analysis of 2021 census data found the percentage of singles and couples who live in homes that have a minimum of three bedrooms increased to 29 per cent that year, from 26 per cent in 2006.)

He said he’s found anecdotally that many people are instead “downsizing from the inside” – only using a small part of their house, often the ground floor, and often closing off or limiting heating in the rest.

Several other reports confirm parts of his findings. Real estate and mortgage company Redfin published a report in January that found that in the United States, “empty-nest baby boomers own 28 per cent of the nation’s large homes [with three or more bedrooms], while millennials with kids own just 14 per cent.”

Buying and selling homes has become very expensive, thanks to elevated house prices

Unable to downsize, more seniors are living in larger homes with empty bedrooms

A September paper by University of Waterloo and McMaster University researchers states seniors are most likely to leave their homes for a retirement home only when access to home care and other services become a challenge. And a Deloitte report from 2022 found “91 per cent of Ontario seniors hope to stay in their own home for as long as possible.”

Real estate economist Diana Petramala wrote a report on the issue in 2018, which posited that “those waiting for baby boomers to downsize may be holding their breath for some time. Boomers are not expected to downsize in a meaningful way until mid-2040.” It noted that while millennials now outnumber boomers, boomers still own more homes, and forecast a deficit of 70,000 “ground-related housing units” this decade to meet millennial demand.

She adds that there’s also a cultural element: Canadians are very driven by home ownership.

“People highly value their homes, not just as an asset, but as a place where they live,” said Ms. Petramala, who is based in Toronto.

The cost of moving – especially for someone living in a home that is paid off – is also a barrier to many seniors who would otherwise consider downsizing, said Julia Chung, certified financial planner and co-founder of Spring Plans in South Surrey, B.C. Other expenses include preparing one’s house for sale, disposal of unwanted items, staging, packers and movers, real estate agent and lawyer fees, property transfer taxes and potential condo fees or monthly fees at a retirement home to consider.

“Moving costs will be higher than most people expect,” Ms. Chung said. Among her clients who are staying in their homes instead of downsizing, “either they find that they would not have the net financial gain from downsizing that they’d expected, or they even might find that it costs more for this smaller home because of the location, amenities, age, and of course, the market that wants the same thing.”

For those with parents at near-retirement/retirement age in detached homes, what are they looking at doing in terms of housing?

My parents live in a 3500+ sq. ft. 5-bedroom home and recognize they can't keep up with the yard work, maintenance, cleaning, etc. indefinitely on their own. It's an 80's era home with good bones but due for some relatively large updates (kitchen/bath). I've been helping them with the initial stages of looking at what's viable for them.

My mom was open to the idea of moving to a new-build townhome in the same area (West Coquitlam) as they would like to stay in the same neighbourhood. However, West Coquitlam 3 bed townhomes - they want space for us when we visit - are $1.3M+ plus. Estimating their home is worth $1.7-1.8M on the market, my parents feel this isn't worth it.

They've thrown around the idea of using the equity from sale of their home to build a laneway on my lot that they'd live in, but while some aspects of that are appealing there are other questions (Partner would need to be fully on board. And what if we want to move? Current house is definitely not my forever home. Also, do I want to go through the stress of the design, permit, and build process?).

I don't think they're open to condo living yet (too many neighbours, my dad needs some patch of garden to tend).

Other thoughts?

In their ideal world they'd move into a new build rancher, but there are no new builds that are (a) not $2.5M+ and (b) massive.

[Hondaracer]

Townhomes have a lot of stairs generally, which becomes an increasingly bigger issue as you get older

[TypeRNammer]

Originally Posted by carsncars

S
They've thrown around the idea of using the equity from sale of their home to build a laneway on my lot that they'd live in, but while some aspects of that are appealing there are other questions (Partner would need to be fully on board. And what if we want to move? Current house is definitely not my forever home. Also, do I want to go through the stress of the design, permit, and build process?).

My laneway house took over two years from the start of discussion to actually living in it

Permits alone from CoV took 8 months

I'm not sure how long it takes for permits nowadays with CoV

But if you do come to a final conclusion on building a laneway house, allow yourself a 2 year buffer time, and be prepared for tons of headaches depending on the builder.

Just a food for thought

[carsncars]

Yeah the townhome stair issue has occurred to them, they've seen one development in Burke Mountain that has a bedroom on main that they like (but don't like the area). Regardless, it leaves even fewer options.

Re: laneway house - if we go that route (and we're far from it) I was bracing myself for 2 years in the best case scenario. That said, the biggest issue is I'm not sure I see myself staying in this house for more than 5-8 years. Theoretically the added equity of the laneway home from a future sale could go towards ensuring our new home has an appropriate suite/laneway as well... but now you're talking about appeasing 4 people when house shopping and further restricting your options.

One option I suggested that my dad shot down was to finish the basement suite in their current home (currently has a wet bar but not full kitchen but is otherwise finished) and rent it, then use the rental income to pay for yard work, maintenance, etc. but they're not keen on managing a tenant (and I honestly understand it).

It's tricky, but I'm glad my parents are thinking about it before it becomes an urgent issue.

[Hondaracer]

Honestly just be like most people and live in the house and let it rot, at least they will be comfortable in a home they are familiar with.

And I’m not trying to shit on your parents but moreso the state we are in that, as you said, it makes no sense for them to make a move when “down sizing” to sonthing else is going to be a substantial portion of the equity they have in their home.

People talk about the “missing middle” all the time but we also haven’t created a scenario where there is acceptable housing for people like your parents to give up their detached home into, what should be, a comfortable situation. So boomers and older all just stay in their home until they physically cannot, and I don’t blame them

[carsncars]

Yeah, I mean we've talked through the above scenarios and basically arrived at your conclusion. Just wondered if there was a better solution we'd missed.

It's unfortunate that this is not ideal for anyone. My parents would rather not be burdened by a large home, but the other options aren't any more appealing. Meanwhile 2 empty nesters take up a 5-bedroom home for another 10-15 years.

In 5-10 years we could see possibly buying the house from them, renovating the basement, and moving them there. But again, that's contingent on my partner being on board with living above the in laws, and Coquitlam is not convenient for the current job. Also, I wonder whether I'd ever feel it's "my" house vs. my parents' house/my childhood home.

[donk.]

Tell em to sell the house and go on a "life at sea" 365 day cruise

1.5mil should get them 25 years worth

[JDMDreams]

Buy a house with an elevator? I have no idea how much the upkeep is but I've seen them in houses and town houses.

[EvoFire]

Unless they don't want close proximity neighbours, maybe a large 2bd condo would be a good alternative? Granted it's probably close to $1m for a good high rise one nowadays.

[Hondaracer]

Depending on how old they are just sell and rent a condo

[Traum]

My MIL was in that situation ~10+ yrs ago when all her children moved out, and she was living alone in their old bungalow. She continued to stay there for about a year, likely digesting the situation and ramifications she was facing. And then out of the blue one day, she just announced to all her children (and their partners) that she is putting the old bungalow up for sale, and that she is looking into buying and moving into some sort of high rise in the same vicinity (the whole around Metrotown).

In terms of value for money, I felt like it wasn't really worth it, but of course I also understood there was a lot more to "just the money". I forgot how much the old bungalow ended up selling for, but bcos the MIL wanted to live in a bigger apartment, the units she was looking at were asking for anywhere between 60 - 75% of how much the house was worth, but IMO, the apartments were nowhere close to being 60 - 75% of the house. But that's how it went down -- she wanted to move out of the house. There was too much space for her. She had no interest in doing garden work. The house would need regular maintenance and upkeep if she continues to live there. She couldn't do the snow shovelings in the odd times when it snowed, which meant her children (or me) would have to go there and take care of it for her. And the single biggest plus that I saw out of the house sale were:

1) she can just lock her apartment door and travel
2) she can use some of the proceeds to support her travels

By "travels", it mostly just meant she goes to Hong Kong for anywhere between a few weeks to a few months. But it was a freedom that she enjoys, and is able to exercise once again after moving into an apartment.

My take from the whole thing was -- in terms of money, she definitely came out on the "losing" end. Had the MIL held on to the house, she would be hundreds of thousands of dollars "ahead" by now, and that's a LOT of money -- probably more money than I would gross over that period of time LOL~ At the same time, her way and qualify of life would also probably be very different, and she probably wouldn't enjoy her retirement life very much.

Originally Posted by carsncars

In 5-10 years we could see possibly buying the house from them, renovating the basement, and moving them there. But again, that's contingent on my partner being on board with living above the in laws, and Coquitlam is not convenient for the current job. Also, I wonder whether I'd ever feel it's "my" house vs. my parents' house/my childhood home.

The wifey and I contemplated on the viability of us moving in with the MIL, and I was the unwilling partner in this case. There were some practical difficulties with the way the house was setup, with the biggest issue being that there wasn't a separate kitchen in the basement. But the other major issue was exactly what you have described -- in my mind, as long as my MIL was still alive, it would still be "her house", and not really "my own home". Over time, I'm sure that feeling would fade, but it wasn't something I was willing to compromise on at the time -- not when there were other options available in front of me.

[EvoFire]

Would there be 3rd path where you guys rent out the house, you can manage the whole rental bit, or even just hire an agency, take out a mortgage on the house to buy a condo? The rent should mostly cover the mortgage if not all of it, and there would be a nest egg for the kids when it does come time?

[JDMDreams]

^^ I was gonna just suggest that. Just rent out the house, income should cover rent for a condo. Or even pay for part of the mortgage on condo if you want to buy

[Eff-1]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...oper-1.7112666

A B.C. Supreme Court judge has ordered a Richmond developer to pay almost $13.1 million for cancelling deals with more than 30 would-be condo buyers before selling the units to other people for higher prices.

chalk one up for the little guy I guess?