Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[Traum]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

I have friends who are in Seattle in tech as well. One who's single and one who's recently had a baby. The single one said once he has kids he'll be coming back but the first step is finding a gf first. We met up with the family with a new baby today before heading home to Vancouver. They aren't sure what they want to do moving forward because obviously the paycheque is nice but they aren't sure about the 60-80k/y tuition for private school, but the cost to move to a good public school area is also in the millions. They have 5 years to figure shit out, the current up and coming problem is finding affordable daycare.

2 questions came to mind:

- What kind of girl does your friend want to / expect to find? Another Canadian expat working in Seattle? Preferably one that wants to move back to Canada? Preferably Vancouver? or at least have family up here? That seems like a pretty big stretch.

- My tech friends in Seattle don't seem to have any problem finding daycare down there -- it's just that it's expensive. From what they have told me, specifically because the US doesn't offer much in terms of legislated parental leave benefits, daycare, including those for infants, are far more plentiful than what we have here in Vancouver. But with the federal daycare subsidy programs, prices seem to be getting cheaper here now, but the funding might actually be too low for daycare centers to operate.

[mikemhg]

Seattle has always been a dump, a depressing and dark city. Too many hills, it's not walkable, a massive highway running through it.

I'll say one thing, we were down there last summer for a concert and stayed a few days, I was surprised how much they've cleaned up the downtown area. They started moving the homeless to the outside of the downtown core, so for that part, you didn't see too many of them in the downtown proper.

That along with the influx of tech offices over the last few years in downtown, it's definitely been revitalized in some areas (South Lake Union) for example.

I wouldn't say Portland has changed much in terms of decline, it's downtown is just dead nowadays, cost of housing has moved more people into the suburbs and across the bridge to the eastern portion of the city (Mississippi Ave) area is bustling.

COVID has pretty much decimated most of the downtown areas in cities of the PNW, this includes Vancouver.

[bcrdukes]

Have you tried riding the SLUT? (South Lake Union Transit)

Re: Portland - Do a quick Google search on their drug problem. Welcome use, they said.

Edit: Correct acronym was Trolley, not Transit.

[68style]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Seattle has always been a dump imo.

I remember going to Seattle on family trips in the 90’s and thought it felt run down then comparatively. It’s just an ugly city to start and then the struggles places like it have gone through in the last 10 years amplified the problems

How's the market in Portugal? What city/cities you looking in?

[pastarocket]

What are your thoughts on Turd's announcement?

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/0...ing-vancouver/

Trudeau called BC Builds “an ambitious and fundamentally practical new housing program.” Announced last week, the program brings together non-profits, local governments, public agencies, First Nations, and community groups to identify underused land across the province, to create and build more homes for means-tested middle-income renters.

The $2 billion funding announced Tuesday comes from the federal government’s apartment construction loan program, and is on top of the more than $2 billion announced last week by the B.C. government.

The money, Trudeau says, “will support, at a minimum, 8,000 to 10,000 new homes over the next few years, with more to come as even more land is secured.”

Vancouver Mayor Ken Sim says addressing the housing crisis is a team effort.

“The reality is Vancouver, the region, the province, and the country is in a housing crisis, and all levels of government need to work together more than ever before, if we are going to make a material impact on this challenge,” Sim said.

[CivicBlues]

I haven't been to Seattle in ages, since probably 2016. But the downtowns of most US major cities are definitely NOT the places to spend a lot of time in. Honestly I can't think of any downtown like Seattle, Portland, SF, LA, Atlanta, Houston, et al. that I'd put over Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal. If you are stateside the general rule is you want to go to some of the more gentrified suburbs (drive and park) or one of the bougie walkable inner neighborhoods NOT the CBD.

In Seattle that's places like Ballard, Pike/Pine, Capitol Hill, Beltown, South Lake Union, Fremont.

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

Have you tried riding the SLUT? (South Lake Union Transit)

Re: Portland - Do a quick Google search on their drug problem. Welcome use, they said.

you had me at SLUT

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by Traum

2 questions came to mind:

- What kind of girl does your friend want to / expect to find? Another Canadian expat working in Seattle? Preferably one that wants to move back to Canada? Preferably Vancouver? or at least have family up here? That seems like a pretty big stretch.

- My tech friends in Seattle don't seem to have any problem finding daycare down there -- it's just that it's expensive. From what they have told me, specifically because the US doesn't offer much in terms of legislated parental leave benefits, daycare, including those for infants, are far more plentiful than what we have here in Vancouver. But with the federal daycare subsidy programs, prices seem to be getting cheaper here now, but the funding might actually be too low for daycare centers to operate.

He's open to suggestions. He dated a ABC and a FOB recently and neither worked out. Might be a him problem as well as finding a girl who would leave is not an insignificant challenge.

Part of the daycare issue is price, the other is getting in to one that they want. The desireable daycares are obviously going to be all full. She works at Microsoft and they have partner daycares, but those are all full with waitlists.

[Badhobz]

thats where he went wrong.

ABC are basically white women. aka too many opinions and... hey shaddup.

FOBS on the other hand are just too fobby and the culture divide is a bit too much. You need a mix of FOBBY qualities and Canadian Born/American Born qualities. Aka you need either a CBC/ABC that was heavily indoctrinated by her parents, (limited to 2nd generation, anything past 2nd gen and youre basically dating a white woman) or you need a fob that came here in elementary school/highschool at the latest. Enough to understand a few simpsons episodes but not too much to start voting or ... god forbid... have opinions on shit and ... shudder.... environmentalism

[carsncars]

Gotta love RE staging sometimes. "And for the main course... a single uncooked artichoke, whole"

[Tapioca]

It was a bit of shock to see what downtown Portland has become since COVID when we stopped for a couple of days last summer. Portland has always been rough around the edges, but the downtown core has taken a turn for the worst.

Re: Seattle. When I was down in Bellevue last summer, I saw a lot of Chinese families in the main park and around the town centre. It makes sense as Bellevue is probably one of the nicer communities in the greater Seattle area.

I've spent a bit of time visiting various states on the west coast over the past couple of years. Roads in most US cities are generally in much rougher shape than up here in Canada. It's not hard to see the impact of lower taxes over time on public infrastructure. It also explains why cars are getting bigger and more isolated in North America.

[carsncars]

Re: US roads

Yeah, some of the highways are pretty rough - thinking of last summer in Southern California. And they don't even have much of an ice/thaw cycle to deal with.

On the other hand I agree with finding drivers in the US better in general. It's a generalization but the truck drivers in general are better behaved. On the I-5 they generally keep to the right, sure you get the occasional semi slowly passing a semi but they have to pass at some point. Meanwhile in Vancouver I regularly see semis barreling down the fast lane/tailgating on Hwy 1.

[EvoFire]

Vancouver never fit into the typical mold of a North American city, and has moved farther and farther away from it.

To stick with housing, Seattle has lots of row homes and small low rises which seem typical to most cities, otherwise it's a lot of 100 year old SFH and most are quite modest in size. Only Vancouver do we have monstrous Vancouver Specials, or giant highrises outside of the core, and or sprawling low rise complexes. Overall living arrangements feel very different.

To put that into perspective, most people I've talked to about housing in Calgary also fits into that mold where it's small SFH or small low rises. The whole thing in Vancouver where we do a SFH with two basement suites are unheard of anywhere else.

Also I didn't realize it, but driving in Vancouver has become VERY Asian/European like in the aggressive behaviours, but minus the actual skill and spatial awareness to not hit everything. I am glad though in that I can drive a lowered vehicle with a lip sticking way out and not potentially lose it on a drive to the store. Yes Cain & co were ridiculous but in Seattle, the roads will do it for you instead of Cain giving you a ticket.

[hud 91gt]

Canadian roads aren’t great either. We just have really nice ones in B.C. The rest of Canadas roads are awful.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

WMaybe we've never been through the residential areas outside of downtown much but holy shit the city feels run down. We stayed in an Airbnb in Columbia City (East of Seatac) and the house we were in was built in 1907(!)

Now more of the I5 is paved in asphalt or my X3 is better insulated than my Highlander, but holy shit the roads are worn down. Random potholes everywhere, residential streets are beat to shit.

The city itself, lots of closed storefronts and abandoned buildings mixed with new condos. I don't get the feeling that people are "poor" but the city is not being taken care of or the money is being spent elsewhere.

Thinking about the place feels like a very Canadian mindset.
+ Columbia city is like comparing east van by the docks or north surrey ... ur in the wrong part of town

Thing is, living in the States has always been about what tradeoffs you're willing to accept to make some sort of a dream happen.

LA is way sketchier and actively dangerous compared to Seattle/Portland, but if you want to be in acting / music / dance, that's where you gotta go to chase that dream.

If you are in your 20s, the freedom to travel, take up your space and figure out who you are living alone, experience Cap Hill nightlife and try a bunch of different hobbies is way easier in Seattle where every new grad's desperate to make friends and find themselves too.

+ people don't spend time in downtown/SLU, nor do they spend time in DTLA. It's all about the neighbourhoods around them.

Seattle's Fremont/Ballard/Greenlake area IMO combine Point Grey beaches with neighbourhood feel of Main Street/Commercial drive. Amazing for early 30s couples with kids.

I don't think people here really think about the roads or whatever, but the single family zoning definitely makes the budget management worse. Thank god the way that Vancouver's zoning for density and development lowers infrastructure costs per capita.

FWIW I drove a lowered S2000 40k km in a year through very hilly parts of Seattle and it was fine ... but I was full throttle a LOT in my mum's RAV4 to keep up with changing traffic patterns.

Healthcare wise, the quality and speed of care was like 10X better than what I could get in Canada. Yes, you have to pay for it and deal with medical billing but you eventually get the hang of it. Just wait till you hit 65 and medicare takes care of you.

You have to be chasing something (maybe it's financial stability, maybe it's a career) for all these tradeoffs to be worth it compared to living in Vancouver... sometimes this leads to unhealthy opinions (i.e. trump supporters) but if you play your cards just right, you can be around very very interesting people.

Again with tradeoffs, where you live here and what's walkable matters a ton. I will judge someone who lives in Cap Hill vs. SLU very differently in Seattle ... same with West LA/WeHo vs. Pasadena mans. Most people live within a 15-20 minute radius ... what's available dramatically changes who you are

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

Vancouver never fit into the typical mold of a North American city, and has moved farther and farther away from it.

To stick with housing, Seattle has lots of row homes and small low rises which seem typical to most cities, otherwise it's a lot of 100 year old SFH and most are quite modest in size. Only Vancouver do we have monstrous Vancouver Specials, or giant highrises outside of the core, and or sprawling low rise complexes. Overall living arrangements feel very different.

Also I didn't realize it, but driving in Vancouver has become VERY Asian/European like in the aggressive behaviours, but minus the actual skill and spatial awareness to not hit everything. I am glad though in that I can drive a lowered vehicle with a lip sticking way out and not potentially lose it on a drive to the store. Yes Cain & co were ridiculous but in Seattle, the roads will do it for you instead of Cain giving you a ticket.

RE: High rises
Depends on if you consider Bellevue / Redmond to be outside of the core .... most people would consider it to be like the Brentwood of Seattle.

The mansions took some time to find - they're in Montlake/Aboretum, Laurelhurst by the water, lakeside by Leschi, and all the way up the west side from Golden Gardens to Edmonds. Again .... local areas and beaches I wouldn't expect tourists to know. I lived in 4k sq ft with water views by UW for about a year.

RE: Driving
I did maybe 5k kms in Vancouver last year ... I felt the driving was still quick relaxed since the road layout is pretty chill...

whereas in Seattle, a very common commute needs u to cut 7 lanes across the highway in quarter mile (520 west to Mercer St), cut 4 lanes just to stay on the highway (Mercer Street I-5 South), and certain onramps require full throttle to make it at the speed limit (405 south to 520 east). The drivers tend to be more aggressive and skilled because they must be to survive.

RE: Lowered Car
Don't think I scraped too much even living in Seattle's hilliest neighbourhood in a lowered s2k. You can't go too crazy with lowering and lip but I really love the car enthusiast scene down there with Avants group, Ferrari/Maserati/Alfa dealer run events, etc.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by Phozy

Ended the trip with some conversations with said buddies. They wouldn't want to raise their kids in America. But ask them if they'd give up the paycheque to come back to Vancouver; that was the more real response.

I'm a bit younger (27) but for me, it's about opportunity. I find that I enjoy the depth and energy that I find here (which is often comes from adversity and struggle lol).

Once you have kids, I feel the American Suburb lifestyle is a LOT worse than Vancouver. You end up driving and being in traffic a LOT more, your childcare, healthcare, and education (which u pay for via real estate/private school) is way worse. I would rather die than battle the 405 shuttling kids between soccer/piano/BJJ in Bellevue.

You have to earn enough to live in a very nice neighbourhood adjacent to commercial center that's rich enough to not have traffic problems and be safe enough to walk on food.

Think Montlake/Ballard in Seattle or Bellevue/Medina on the eastside, Greenwich CT, wealthy outer neighbourhood of Chicago, Park Slope/UES/UWS in NYC.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by pastarocket

What are your thoughts on Turd's announcement?

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/0...ing-vancouver/

Trudeau called BC Builds “an ambitious and fundamentally practical new housing program.” Announced last week, the program brings together non-profits, local governments, public agencies, First Nations, and community groups to identify underused land across the province, to create and build more homes for means-tested middle-income renters.

The $2 billion funding announced Tuesday comes from the federal government’s apartment construction loan program, and is on top of the more than $2 billion announced last week by the B.C. government.

The money, Trudeau says, “will support, at a minimum, 8,000 to 10,000 new homes over the next few years, with more to come as even more land is secured.”

Vancouver Mayor Ken Sim says addressing the housing crisis is a team effort.

“The reality is Vancouver, the region, the province, and the country is in a housing crisis, and all levels of government need to work together more than ever before, if we are going to make a material impact on this challenge,” Sim said.

Again, where does Turd get these numbers from?..

So you think you can build 8000 homes, regardless of what the definition of a “home” is for $250k a peice??

[EvoFire]

First of all it's not only Vancouver but across BC. I think some communities it's totally feasible for a 1 or even 2 bd build to be below 250k.

Taking profit away but adding in gov't red tape, I would say it would come in below market value. Just because a developer is selling a new unit for 550k doesn't mean it cost them that much, if anything I wouldn't be surprised if a new build 1 bd cost wise is closer to 200k for some less fancy builds and the developer makes a huge profit.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Again, where does Turd get these numbers from?..

So you think you can build 8000 homes, regardless of what the definition of a “home” is for $250k a peice??

I think everything they are doing is completely useless, however, these aren't like they are going to be free homes.
2 billion going into it can make things more affordable as taking chunks out of development costs and speeding up supply is the goal. However, we both know that it's just going to mean more money in developers pockets, and they are just going to control the supply anyways.
Also, 10000 new homes when 600000 new people come to the province in the same time period is just pissing on a forest fire.
My new immigration theory to go with the cheap labour for corporate overlords is the propping up of the RE market to look like canada actually has a functioning economy.

[Hondaracer]

Obviously I’m unbelievably skeptical that they can keep costs under $300/sq ft or whatever it would take to even get close to the promise given it will likely be at least some sort of mixed housing

Only time will tell and he almost certainly won’t be around to see what comes of the promise anyways

However, these recent examples of just throwing money at things obviously proves that if there a will there’s a way. And if some party ever got their heads out of their asses and actually kept frivolous spending within Canada we could put a huge dent in the majority if problems we have here. But Ukraine needs dem drones hehe

[Manic!]

$300 a sq is the average rate in Nanaimo. Talking to a cousin who build a really nice house said he could build for less than $200 right now.

When he built the house just before the pandemic he had a guy come in to give him a quote on a glass railing. Guy spend a bunch of time doing measurements, left and later sent him quote. He got an Indian guy from the mainland to do the same. The guy spend 5 minutes looking at it and gave him a price that was half of the other guy.

[Hondaracer]

lol yea.. exactly.

Even with buddy guy quality a private/public joint build ain’t being built at cost.

Or what are they gonna do? Build the sea-can homes littering Vancouver now and call it permanent?

The most likely scenario is this plan will come to pass, nothing will have changed, and no one will remember when this happened because it wasn’t effective enough to enact change.

[Eff-1]

The theory behind the plan is the savings will come from the fact these are being built on public land, not privately owned land that needs to be purchased or leased.

[PeanutButter]

Oh man, I can't wrap my head around this problem.

So this is the situation. We met up with an old friend and I drove by her parent's house a while back as they were building a brand-new house. So I asked Bonnie about the new house. She told me that her brother, Clyde is developing the property by himself (he's putting up all the money). Clyde will stay with his family in the main unit and the parents will stay in the basement, there is no laneway.

I didn't think much of it until quite a bit later. I was wondering what the circumstances would be once the parents passed away. I'm assuming they will divide assets equally between Bonnie and Clyde. But, in 20 years, how the heck would you divide the house up?

I don't know who will be on the title of the property, I do not know if the parents will be paying Clyde any rent.

I would think the only fair way is if Clyde paid out Bonnie right now, 50% of what the value of the property is, but Clyde doesn't have $1M to pay out to Bonnie (assuming the land is worth $2M), nor would Clyde get the financing for additional $1M loan to give to Bonnie.

Do you guys have any idea regarding this situation?