Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[unit]

Originally Posted by Eff-1

We're a family of 3 and been looking for a detached home in North Van for a few months now. Our budget is entry level so, so that means $1.5 - $1.8. To have a chance, your offer needs to be subject-free.

And for that money, you get is a 50+ year old house that has never been updated, with tiny bathrooms, tiny closets, no master ensuite, single pane windows, and no garage. If you're lucky, a carport.

And yet, here we are. We've put offers now on a few places and lost out each time. It's literally every penny we have. Cash. Stocks. All of it. It also assumes we'll be able to sell our condo above a certain amount, once the time comes to list it.

Once we buy the house, we'll be starting all over building our savings. We're really not used to that, we've always had enough disposable income to do whatever we wanted without stress. Now it will all go into the house. The hope is we'll eventually be able to renovate and update it, but not for a long time. Maybe 24 months away.

Yes, there are less expensive areas around, but we love it on the North Shore, my family is close by, our kid goes to daycare here, etc etc. It's our home.

It's mind boggling. What a world we live in.

we did the same thing, nuked literally every bit of savings we had except rrsps. all stocks, savings, everything gone. also had to borrow a bit from my parents for bathroom renos. honestly i don't regret it one bit... having a detached house is a totally different level of freedom than a TH or condo. having a property line that you can do whatever the f you want in is seriously liberating.

[68style]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Work hard your whole life, actually exceed your life goals, save up substantial capital to buy a home you would have never thought you’d have 10-15 years ago, and now use that sweat and hardship to buy some 50 year old dump and “settle” for a half ass housing situation you’ll never pay off.

Canadurrrr

So many people here seem to be in the same situation. You’ve actually killed it at life, people who graduated high school in the early 2000’s or later would have never dreamt of having millions of dollars in assets or grinding for a 200-300k per year job, you’ve exceeded all expectations and killed it.

And now you’re living worse than people who made a quarter of what you’re making 25 years ago.

I mean... it's just Vancouver/some parts of BC/Toronto isn't it? Not Canada as a whole.

Same thign in USA... Boston recently overtook San Fran as the 2nd most expensive place to live I believe... so you want to live in New York, Boston or Bay Area or even Los Angeles, you're going to be a different version of what success looks like than the guy in a suburb of San Antonio with a 4 car garage mansion he picked up for $450k.

That's not a "USA" problem... it's a people's wants and desires problem with a sprinkle of not enough protection of land purchases from foreign investment.

[Eff-1]

I appreciate everyone's comments and I fully expected all of it.

Oh you're moaning.

Move further away.

It will destroy your relationship.

I think for us, the truth is we love where we live, and when we envision our forever home and where we want to raise our kid, it's North Van.

And if that means sacrifices, so be it.

I guess I just never imagined HOW MUCH had to be sacrificed haha.

Maybe it's the right decision. Maybe the wrong one. Time will tell.

I do know we'll both be a lot happier with our own 4 walls and our own backyard in a neighbourhood we feel good about.

Anything less will feel like we "settled" and that's something both my wife and I always said we'd never do.

But you're right. Yes, we COULD move further away. Yes we COULD get a townhouse instead.

But this is what feels right to us. I just never imagined how much money "right" costs

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by 68style

I mean... it's just Vancouver/some parts of BC/Toronto isn't it? Not Canada as a whole.

I do a routine quick search looking at N.Van / Squamish / Coquitlam / Burnaby / Richmond / Delta / Some surrey.

It seems like there's not many amazing homes for $1.5-1.8M.

Someone please post some nice one's so I know which area to look in. But to my knowledge it's mostly older homes at that price range no matter where we go.

Decent homes were in Langley / Chilliwack but they were tiny for suburb standards.

[68style]

Have you considered going somewhere else that's profitable, ie: Ladner or Tsawwassen and living there for like a few years and then making a % gain there that couldn't be attained elsewhere and then going back to North Van for your forever home.

I do hear what you're saying, but at the same time if there's nothing available and everything is sold fast with no inspections at above your budget... that isn't going to change?

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by 68style

Have you considered going somewhere else that's profitable, ie: Ladner or Tsawwassen and living there for like a few years and then making a % gain there that couldn't be attained elsewhere and then going back to North Van for your forever home.

I do hear what you're saying, but at the same time if there's nothing available and everything is sold fast with no inspections at above your budget... that isn't going to change?

By the time interest rates go back down, the net gain of a property outside of the North Shore probably won’t even make up the difference to get back into North Van

[68style]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

I do a routine quick search looking at N.Van / Squamish / Coquitlam / Burnaby / Richmond / Delta / Some surrey.

It seems like there's not many amazing homes for $1.5-1.8M.

Someone please post some nice one's so I know which area to look in. But to my knowledge it's mostly older homes at that price range no matter where we go.

Decent homes were in Langley / Chilliwack but they were tiny for suburb standards.

I mean, I don't know what your definition of "amazing" is, and I only ever looked in Tsawwassen area myself / sometimes Lander, but there's plenty of places in that range these are all in Tsawwassen:

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2...ta-place-delta

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2...ace-tsawwassen

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2...ee-drive-delta

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2...3-avenue-delta

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2...6-street-delta

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2...a-street-delta

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2...crescent-delta

If you want something between $1.1 to 1.4 that's where the pickings are extremely slim and there's almost nothing available or it needs major work... and some newer/larger townhouses creep up into that range let alone detached. THere's at least 2 in the above homes that I would snap up immediately as a super nice place to live if I was in that price bracket... the first link is an absolutely fantastic home... and the 3rd link at walalee drive one is a really nice place if not a little bit too blue and it's been relisted like twice now so you can problaly offer below ask.

[underscore]

All the realtor fees and taxes would hurt pretty badly trying to jump around short term on properties that expensive too.

Originally Posted by 68style

I mean... it's just Vancouver/some parts of BC/Toronto isn't it? Not Canada as a whole.

Without changes I'm guessing it might be wider spread in another decade or so as the people priced out of those areas in turn price other people out of other areas.

[68style]

Unfortunately the culture has shifted people came from abroad with different ideals than your average Canadian about land being the biggest and best form of investment there is... and they turned it into a circus here... but now all the Canadians are also developing that mindset and trying to do the same thing... so it's just getting worse and worse as people with money buy up multiple properties to try and cash in on the same "homes are investments" mentality.

[Badhobz]

Yeah those listings in Ladner are perfect. If you choose to spend more to live elsewhere that’s your choice but I really like those. I could have traded my crap shack in Richmond for one of these and come out quite far ahead. She just has to suffer the drive and that’s not worth to her.

[underscore]

I have relatives who complained about the price of the place they bought compared to what I paid for mine 10 years ago, while they're currently sitting with 3 rental properties and trying to buy more.

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by 68style

I mean, I don't know what your definition of "amazing" is, and I only ever looked in Tsawwassen area myself / sometimes Lander, but there's plenty of places in that range these are all in Tsawwassen:

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2...ta-place-delta

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2...a-street-delta

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2...crescent-delta
.

I'd consider the above "amazing" or nice.


https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2...ace-tsawwassen

If I had to pay $8K / month + $300K Down for this, I'd be pretty depressed. I think that's why people would rather get something for < $3-5K/month in Calgary, build a rental portfolio in different cities and stock away into ETFs.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by 68style

Unfortunately the culture has shifted people came from abroad with different ideals than your average Canadian about land being the biggest and best form of investment there is... and they turned it into a circus here... but now all the Canadians are also developing that mindset and trying to do the same thing... so it's just getting worse and worse as people with money buy up multiple properties to try and cash in on the same "homes are investments" mentality.

I know it’s obviously different from person to person but I have a few friends who’s parents/step parents are KINDA “old money” or are very wealthy from business in the 60’s/70’s/80’s. Some own incredible waterfront homes in west van etc.

Outside of purchasing vacation properties, every single one of them never even considered just hoarding property as any sort of investment tool, as until recently, (last 20 years or so) it was a terrible return for your wealthy individual

Then the money laundering came along and homes became commodified as a tangible asset when your cash was at risk, and that was the end for the vast majority of people.

[noclue]

Depending on the winds, ladner smells like fertilizer or compost from the landfill by boundary airport + tons of bugs from the marsh.

[whitev70r]

Feds just announced that mortgage amortization can now be 30 yrs for 1st time home buyer ...their attempt to help. I guess it can't hurt, means you can have a slightly higher mortgage? But as income increases for owner through the yrs, most want to pay it down asap.

[6793026]

^ just head that too. so yeah... lock it in for 30 years!!!!! PLEASE do so.. at 7.2% right now.. that's going to be EPIC LOL. Why didn't they offer this to us at 2.25% back 2007 or 2011

[68style]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

I know it’s obviously different from person to person but I have a few friends who’s parents/step parents are KINDA “old money” or are very wealthy from business in the 60’s/70’s/80’s. Some own incredible waterfront homes in west van etc.

Outside of purchasing vacation properties, every single one of them never even considered just hoarding property as any sort of investment tool, as until recently, (last 20 years or so) it was a terrible return for your wealthy individual

Then the money laundering came along and homes became commodified as a tangible asset when your cash was at risk, and that was the end for the vast majority of people.

I didn't grow up around many rich people, but I did grow up with tonnes of HK friends in the first wave of "Ahh China is taking over" immigration in the late 80's... and my Dad ended up becoming extremely wealthy, but up until just like 2 years ago when he is now 75 years old he never ever considered owning a 2nd property... too much trouble, not worth it, who wants the hassle and headache, just costs money, risk... etc etc etc

Meanwhile ALL my HK friends their parents were buying up places if they had any extra and they also have that mentality as well.

It's funny cuz NOW my dad is suddenly all interested... after he sold our family farm and how much it increased / tripled in price basically from 2010 until 2023... he wants to do it but his age has left him with no energy to be bothered and he quite correctly assumes that even if he did bother, he's gonna be long dead before anything is realized from it.

[twitchyzero]

how's ladner's flood mgmt? is on par with rmd? has it ever been like abbotsford few years ago?

sandwiched btw richmond for markets/food and pt bob for pkgs also ever slightly more sunshine makes it seem like a great spot

flight school path usually away from residential areas?

[68style]

I think almost all of Ladner and the beachy side of Tsawwassen are at risk of flood. They're at or just below sea level, but it hasn't happened like it did in Abby, this area is not a mountain-fed river... Boundary Bay and ocean.

I have usually looked mostly on the west side of 56 St in Tsawwassen because it's all rocky and significantly elevated.

[Great68]

My parents were never in a position to afford secondary real estate property

[JDMDreams]

Oooo 30y amortization for cmhc and $60000 hbp now

Money machine goes burrrrrr

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/canada-t...omes-1.2057988

[Traum]

I think Ladner is prone to localized flooding, but I can't imagine how it could be as bad as what happened in Abbotsford. Abbotsford's circumstances were very different because it had a whole bunch of factors stacked against it:

- the worst flooded areas were a drained lake
- multiple unrelenting atmospheric rivers came down to hit the region
- the nearby Sumas and Nooksack rivers overflowed and poured water back into the drained lake

Then again, if an earthquake-induced tsunami were to hit the PNW, Ladner would likely see more flood damage than Abby would.

[PeanutButter]

Just talked to a lady at my sons pre-school. her sister-in-law just sold their house for $1.9M and moved to Calgary and bought a new place for $900k, it's a huge house almost brand new. The sister-in-law has baby three on the way and they just felt like it was time.

Not sure if you can ever get over the family and friends thing, but I think they will be sitting pretty until they retire.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

Oooo 30y amortization for cmhc and $60000 hbp now

Compared to a 25 yrs amortization period, how much more money will the bank lend you with a 30 yrs amortization period though?

Even now, a $100k salary on a 25 yrs mortgage can only get you a ~$400k mortgage. Even if I were to just linearly extrapolate the amount (which is almost certainly NOT how the bank would do), you are still only looking at $480k. Throw a second $100k earner into the picture, and maybe you can qualify for $1M over 30 years, instead of $800k over 25 years?

It'll certainly help a certain number of people, but it'd still seem like a drop in the bucket when Vancouver and Toronto prices are so high.

The higher RRSP withdrawl allowance also doesn't seem that useful to me. $60k is still very little money when the end goal is to purchase some sort of RE property. And as far as RRSP is concerned, building up a $60k RRSP buffer is also no easy feat. So how many first time home buyers could actually benefit from this policy change?

[JDMDreams]

Well you need dp, if you want to buy anything, so you might as well take that gift from parents and throw it into rsp to get that tax discount. You will get laughed out of the bank if you have less than $100k dp in Vancouver anyways.

What are you gonna do? make $150k but put $25000 down on $500k and chmc the rest? Most people have income that can borrow should have more than $60000 in dp.