Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[FOREVER]

Been lurking this thread for the past few months...

Already done the "planning" with speaking to a realtor and a mortgage broker just to get a sense of what kind of buying power I have. Know what I need to do, but man breaking the bad news to the tenants in my apartment is currently the most difficult thing for me bleh

(The tenants are a good friend's sibling+spouse and they got in during covid at a below market price for a 2b2b)

[westopher]

If they are friends just give them as much notice as you can. They can't really be mad about that if they have the opportunity to search. If they are, that's a them problem.

[carsncars]

Technically aren't the tenants allowed to stay, unless the new buyer evicts them for "own use"?

[whitev70r]

Originally Posted by FOREVER

Been lurking this thread for the past few months...

Already done the "planning" with speaking to a realtor and a mortgage broker just to get a sense of what kind of buying power I have. Know what I need to do, but man breaking the bad news to the tenants in my apartment is currently the most difficult thing for me bleh

(The tenants are a good friend's sibling+spouse and they got in during covid at a below market price for a 2b2b)

I assume the situation is that you have a 2B 2 Bath condo that you are renting to friends, you are planning to sell to get something bigger, perhaps for yourself?

In that case, selling, I think you can give your tenants notice. Although you can also tell the new buyer how reliable these tenants are and prospective buyer, if for investment, and not for personal use, could choose to keep them.

Don't tell me that if you're selling a condo that you're renting and the prospective buyer is buying for investment and to rent out, buyer can't evict tenant?? If so, the rules are really tilted to the tenants favour. A buyer, even for investment, should have the opportunity to have a fresh start, or keep present tenant if so chooses.

[6thGear.]

You can't evict tenants on the basis of wanting to sell the property. If the buyer is an end user, they ask the seller to give tenant notice on behalf of the buyer. Also, and this is based on past experience, most new potential investors would want to see market value rent from the tenants.

[CRS]

Alternative is a cash for keys for a mutual release.

If you did a friendly deal for the rental, hopefully, the tenants will return the favour.

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

Don't tell me that if you're selling a condo that you're renting and the prospective buyer is buying for investment and to rent out, buyer can't evict tenant?? If so, the rules are really tilted to the tenants favour. A buyer, even for investment, should have the opportunity to have a fresh start, or keep present tenant if so chooses.

This is exactly the case. Selling the place has no ability to remove the tenant unless the new owners are going to move in or make substantial renovations.

-Mark

[blkgsr]

Originally Posted by PeanutButter

Where are you looking to buy and what's the budget?

Coquitlam up on the hill around Mundy Park area

ideally $1.7M (needs some work) - $2.2M max (ready to go)

I'll pay for location, solid house/layout, garage

the rest I can fix/change

[JDMDreams]

Yes it's stupid, you can't evict just cuz you plan to sell, it has to be firm deal and new buyer wants to evict, then you hope and pray that they leave by completion leaving the place in good condition. BS. Or I guess you can live in it for 6 months before you sell? Or did they up it to one year now.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by snowball

Which OEB was this? Many do that Yelp waitlist, just sign up at 8am and sleep in until 30 minutes before your table is ready lol.

Brentwood. Would be about a 30 minute drive in from my house in the hinterland.

Got myself on the Yelp waitlist about 45 minutes before the time I wanted to meet my dad. 2+hours.

Like c'mon.

[SSM_DC5]

Originally Posted by FOREVER

Been lurking this thread for the past few months...

Already done the "planning" with speaking to a realtor and a mortgage broker just to get a sense of what kind of buying power I have. Know what I need to do, but man breaking the bad news to the tenants in my apartment is currently the most difficult thing for me bleh

(The tenants are a good friend's sibling+spouse and they got in during covid at a below market price for a 2b2b)

You can send them my way for RS discount. 2bed 1 bath basement. Brand new. Near Metrotown.

Originally Posted by lowside67

This is exactly the case. Selling the place has no ability to remove the tenant unless the new owners are going to move in or make substantial renovations.

-Mark

So more precisely, the transaction/interaction would be something like this?
Seller informs tenant as a heads up that place is being sold and buyer plans to move in.
Completion takes place.
Buyer gives official notice to vacate.
Buyer waits 2 months for the tenant to leave

This is of course negating any mutual agreements that the parties might make to stray away from what RTB wants the process to be.

[Hakkaboy]

Originally Posted by dark0821

Thanks Mark for the insight, we are just starting to shop, renewal in October~

We were leaning towards keeping it variable, but now looking at it, maybe 3 year fix is the way to go.

Man, Revscene been giving me life advice for almost 2 decades now~~

My mortgage is also up for renewal in October. See anything of interest yet?

[lowside67]

BMO's published 5-year rate has gone down 0.25% in the last 2 days - now at 4.75% for well qualified buyers on a 25-yr am. 3-year is 4.96% and is still my choice. An approval would allow you to hold the rate for 90 days, but if they go down, take the lower rate. My mortgage doesnt actually fund until early August and I had a rate held, and now it's gone down a few points as a result.

-Mark

[immorality]

Where do you see this rates published? When I look on BMO's website, the rates are all over the place, and much higher.

[Alpine]

Originally Posted by blkgsr

Coquitlam up on the hill around Mundy Park area

ideally $1.7M (needs some work) - $2.2M max (ready to go)

I'll pay for location, solid house/layout, garage

the rest I can fix/change

Central Coquitlam is a good area - you should also check out harbour chines/harbour place or chineside/ranch park if you like hills, if you haven’t already.

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by immorality

Where do you see this rates published? When I look on BMO's website, the rates are all over the place, and much higher.

Sorry, should have been more clear, published internally - basically the BMO friends/family rate. I can help get you this rate via a mortgage specialist, no problem.

-Mark

[6thGear.]

Originally Posted by SSM_DC5

You can send them my way for RS discount. 2bed 1 bath basement. Brand new. Near Metrotown.



So more precisely, the transaction/interaction would be something like this?
Seller informs tenant as a heads up that place is being sold and buyer plans to move in.
Completion takes place.
Buyer gives official notice to vacate.
Buyer waits 2 months for the tenant to leave

This is of course negating any mutual agreements that the parties might make to stray away from what RTB wants the process to be.

You don't have to wait till completion day to give notice to tenants. As soon as rescission period and/or subject removal day passes, tenants can be notified. Also, it's good to note. It's not 2 months per say. It's 2 rent periods. If rent is due 1st of the month but notice is given 10 days prior, notice to vacate doesn't start till the 1st when rent is due.

[FOREVER]

Originally Posted by westopher

If they are friends just give them as much notice as you can. They can't really be mad about that if they have the opportunity to search. If they are, that's a them problem.

Originally Posted by whitev70r

I assume the situation is that you have a 2B 2 Bath condo that you are renting to friends, you are planning to sell to get something bigger, perhaps for yourself?

In that case, selling, I think you can give your tenants notice. Although you can also tell the new buyer how reliable these tenants are and prospective buyer, if for investment, and not for personal use, could choose to keep them.

Don't tell me that if you're selling a condo that you're renting and the prospective buyer is buying for investment and to rent out, buyer can't evict tenant?? If so, the rules are really tilted to the tenants favour. A buyer, even for investment, should have the opportunity to have a fresh start, or keep present tenant if so chooses.

Originally Posted by 6thGear.

You don't have to wait till completion day to give notice to tenants. As soon as rescission period and/or subject removal day passes, tenants can be notified. Also, it's good to note. It's not 2 months per say. It's 2 rent periods. If rent is due 1st of the month but notice is given 10 days prior, notice to vacate doesn't start till the 1st when rent is due.

Yup, so the plan is to give them as much heads up as possible. The realtor wants to list near the end of June/early July, and do the prep work before then.

Originally Posted by SSM_DC5

You can send them my way for RS discount. 2bed 1 bath basement. Brand new. Near Metrotown.

Will keep this in mind! They're currently in the Victoria Kingsway area which is close to both of their parents' place. Not sure what they're willing to pay since le gf/wife tried to do an out of bound increase for them to $2400 and they declined it

[donk.]

Originally Posted by FOREVER

Not sure what they're willing to pay since le gf/wife tried to do an out of bound increase for them to $2400 and they declined it

They will be begging for a 2400$ unit once they get evicted

[PeanutButter]

I talked to my uncle again and I told him he should just consider renting instead. I proposed he should live in Olympic Village, the walk score is way higher and it's closer to more amenities and if he wants to go to Kits he should buy some electric bikes and bike the seawall there. I even asked him when's the last time he sat on the beach and he said it's been awhile. I think he liked the idea of living in Kits, but that's not his lifestyle.

So I found this unit at Avenue One, the new Concord building. 2br + den, 2bath.
https://www.rew.ca/properties/557034...-vancouver-bc#

This is wild. There's this unit selling for $1.6M, but there's also the same unit for rent on facebook. Rental is $5,500 per month.
The mortgage + property tax + maintenance fee on the unit is roughly $11,500.
Which means the guys is losing close to $6k a month if he rents the unit for $5,500. This is absolutely wild. I'm sure the owner's cost basis is actually lower than $1.6M, but still, it's crazy.

I asked my uncle about his financing and he told me not to worry, he will not have any issues with financing. If he needs to put 100% in cash down, he will be able to... lol. This guy. He's so ballin.

[hud 91gt]

Olympic village units post olympics were so dirt cheap it was insane. The guy doesn’t have a 1.6m mortgage.

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by PeanutButter

I talked to my uncle again and I told him he should just consider renting instead. I proposed he should live in Olympic Village, the walk score is way higher and it's closer to more amenities and if he wants to go to Kits he should buy some electric bikes and bike the seawall there. I even asked him when's the last time he sat on the beach and he said it's been awhile. I think he liked the idea of living in Kits, but that's not his lifestyle.

So I found this unit at Avenue One, the new Concord building. 2br + den, 2bath.
https://www.rew.ca/properties/557034...-vancouver-bc#

This is wild. There's this unit selling for $1.6M, but there's also the same unit for rent on facebook. Rental is $5,500 per month.
The mortgage + property tax + maintenance fee on the unit is roughly $11,500.
Which means the guys is losing close to $6k a month if he rents the unit for $5,500. This is absolutely wild. I'm sure the owner's cost basis is actually lower than $1.6M, but still, it's crazy.

I asked my uncle about his financing and he told me not to worry, he will not have any issues with financing. If he needs to put 100% in cash down, he will be able to... lol. This guy. He's so ballin.

Accountant here again...

Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but I think you are proposing he keep his house and rent it out, then move into a rental condo to live in? If so, that is definitely the worst of all options.

Under virtually no circumstance does it make sense to own real estate for investment purposes, paying taxes on all the gains it goes up in value, while you don't have a principal residence which goes up tax free over time. Your comments are totally fair about the cost of renting versus owning, but the long term benefit of your principal residence going up in value tax free are huge when you evaluate your total return net of taxes for all other options.

-Mark

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by PeanutButter

So I found this unit at Avenue One, the new Concord building. 2br + den, 2bath.
https://www.rew.ca/properties/557034...-vancouver-bc#

This is wild. There's this unit selling for $1.6M, but there's also the same unit for rent on facebook. Rental is $5,500 per month.
The mortgage + property tax + maintenance fee on the unit is roughly $11,500.
Which means the guys is losing close to $6k a month if he rents the unit for $5,500. This is absolutely wild. I'm sure the owner's cost basis is actually lower than $1.6M, but still, it's crazy.

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

Olympic village units post olympics were so dirt cheap it was insane. The guy doesn’t have a 1.6m mortgage.

It is 100% irrelevant what they paid for it new - the only thing that matters for evaluating their investment returns going forward is the value of the property today.

Whether they bought it for $500k or $1.5M, they could sell it today for $1.6M (for the sake of argument). Therefore, we need to consider what they could do with $1.6M as the alternative to renting it. If you had $1.6M, you could receive $80,000 a year in income just from buying a 0 risk GIC. Or you could probably over the long run gain more like $160-$200k a year in a longer term equity portfolio.

So if you are going to only get $5,500 a month in rent, then subtract strata fees and property taxes, you are probably netting under $60k a year. That means if this thing stays flat in value over the next few years, you've literally lost money versus buying a GIC, let alone taking some risk which is what you are doing with real estate.

And yet they will argue with me all day long about what a great investment that condo is...

-Mark

[PeanutButter]

Originally Posted by lowside67

Accountant here again...

Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but I think you are proposing he keep his house and rent it out, then move into a rental condo to live in? If so, that is definitely the worst of all options.

Under virtually no circumstance does it make sense to own real estate for investment purposes, paying taxes on all the gains it goes up in value, while you don't have a principal residence which goes up tax free over time. Your comments are totally fair about the cost of renting versus owning, but the long term benefit of your principal residence going up in value tax free are huge when you evaluate your total return net of taxes for all other options.

-Mark

That makes sense. I get the feeling he doesn't want to sell his real estate though. It diversifies his portfolio quite nicely, so I think he would rather keep it versus being more capital efficient. I guess at his level of networth, not all of his investments have to be the most efficient.

Though, I suspect if he decides to just rent out his current house, CRA would see that as a business? and it would have to have a deemed disposition on it anyway, so he could claim the principal residence exemption up to this point and then all future appreciation would be taxed accordingly. I think he bought the house for $500k and if it's worth ~$2M or so now, he'll get exempt for that increase?

[JDMDreams]

I think you also have to think about leverage though. No one buys a rental straight cash. They probably only have 20% down and finance the rest. So $ per month with only 20% down ain't bad and it usually pays for the mortgage. You make money mostly on capital appreciation. You for sure will get more than 5% return of your 20% down each month.