Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[supafamous]

The development charges are astronomical nowadays b/c cities are using it to avoid raising property taxes - they are punting a lot of infrastructure costs onto new housing rather than charging everyone an equal rate for infrastructure.

This is Burnaby's fees:



These fees don't include GVRD fees like water and transit. For more: https://www.burnaby.ca/services-and-...unding-program

On one hand, city council will brag about how they kept property tax increases low and then they will raise the development fees on new development to a level that makes it hard to build housing profitably. The vicious circle is if you don't build housing and increase your tax base you'll end up either having to raise property taxes a lot down the road or you ignore critical infrastructure improvements that cause breakdowns. We continue to rob Peter to pay Paul when it comes to property taxes and infrastructure.

Meanwhile anyone who owns land (or housing) reaps the benefits of inflated property values that are tax free.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Well.. all those auxiliary costs are built into the final price. They are just passed on to the buyer its not like the builder just absorbs them

Any idea what "auxiliary cost" are we talking?

Because from the chart Supafamous posted, it doesn't seem to add up as 168.82/m2 is about 15/sqft.

And if AB is able to sell a SFH for 700k and still make a profit, something is seriously wrong here.

Basically, the cost of a SFH today in YVR, just the building cost alone is 1M for a simple house, and that's not accounting for the land cost. There's no way we could ever have affordable housing if the cost per sqft is 350+ just to build and maybe another 200/sqft for land acquisition.

[6793026]

Originally Posted by 68style

My buddy who flips condos for years is caught with his pants a bit down after all these years.. he has a 3 bedroom he had to complete on in New West and he can't even get offers at just under $1M despite the assessed being over $1.2... 3br condos are a tough sell it's townhouse money.

Tons of C - lais and 1st time buyers. C lais can't sell them fast enough cause they can't compete and can't get mortgage, 1st time buyers can't get mortgages and their parents can't help due to lack of income. Reality is hitting hard.

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

^^ I thought about picking up a penthouse unit too. And my realtor advised no. The numbers didn't make sense, it's the most expensive, hard to rent, sell, especially you can't air BNB anymore, fee's are the most expensive. It's easily $600+ a month just for strata.

600 per month is a steal, i'm seeing 1800 sq ft place with with 1800 / month on just strata - of course this is prime location w/ car parks that are elevators (eg// jameson house on georgia).

Originally Posted by Gerbs

My friends drafted his own team of EI builders, when we were golfing he said $300/sqft days are gone, closer to 350-400/sqft actual w/ 10-20% contingency for errors.

He makes < 5% on the flip but 10-20% profit on construction margin. One of the few guys I know that has saved > $1M before 30 without inheritance.

what people don't also consider is the 1 = 1.5M you're borrowing on to do reno; you can't just get a regular mortgage for construction; even if its only taking 12 mths for a build, you're paying 6% if you're lucky... that's another added cost.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by Hehe

Any idea what "auxiliary cost" are we talking?

Because from the chart Supafamous posted, it doesn't seem to add up as 168.82/m2 is about 15/sqft.

And if AB is able to sell a SFH for 700k and still make a profit, something is seriously wrong here.

Basically, the cost of a SFH today in YVR, just the building cost alone is 1M for a simple house, and that's not accounting for the land cost. There's no way we could ever have affordable housing if the cost per sqft is 350+ just to build and maybe another 200/sqft for land acquisition.

All those costs I outlined on the last page, the development fee, hydro etc.

The problem with the hydro and Telus underground infrastructure is you really have no idea how much it will ultimately cost until it’s been designed for your project, you could be at framing stage before you know the final bill

[Harvey Specter]

RIP to anyone who bought a pre-sale looking to flip. Sqft pricess are plummeting, appraisals are coming in much lower, and it’s nearly impossible to find buyers for pre-sale units. Add in the lack of Airbnb demand and stabilising rents, and so called "investors" are left with a $1m shoebox that will continue to drop in value. And good luck to developers trying to sell units in the current market because they relied too heavily on Chinese buyers and mom and pop investors who were drunk on cheap money and maxing out their HELOCs to buy tiny, overpriced units.

And I love how JT decides to give Canadians a GST holiday and mess up the BoC's rate cut cycle. This guy can’t do anything right.

[Traum]

I know prices for tiny condo units -- those 500 sq ft type of thing -- have been dropping for a while since there has been an over-supply of them, and the "investor" buyer pool has fallen through. But are prices also falling for normal units -- something like 700 - 800+ sq ft -- that can be lived in?

I was under the impression that prices for those have remained strong because they are actually useful / practical.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Traum

I know prices for tiny condo units -- those 500 sq ft type of thing -- have been dropping for a while since there has been an over-supply of them, and the "investor" buyer pool has fallen through. But are prices also falling for normal units -- something like 700 - 800+ sq ft -- that can be lived in?

I was under the impression that prices for those have remained strong because they are actually useful / practical.

I can't speak for condos but my BIL's 2 bedroom 1200sf Richmond townhouse just sold for below assessed. Was on the market for around 6 months - got barely any traffic during that time.

Anecdotally, entry level detached in Vancouver is moving slowly at lower prices than I've expected - Van specials going for 1.8m or less.

[68style]

I sold my 638sq ft 1 bed + den condo in < 2 weeks on market but it was also the only actual offer I got. It just subjects removed on the 15th so very recent. It did sell for a hair under assessed though, but thats understandable because the building is punting a remediation around that was estimated at as much as $11k for my unit's share.

[HonestTea]

I'm really curious what the new assessed values come out as in 2025. I see a bunch of sellers refer to their 2024 assessed values as their "list price".

In the past, during the crazy years, assessed values barely mattered since everyone was bidding 10-20%+ on top, but it's much different now that the market has cooled.

[GS8]

I had a look at units for sale in my condo rental.



Good luck selling with 89 & 93 DOMs

This 'kitchen' is approaching microsuite size

Spoiler!

[noclue]

Originally Posted by HonestTea

I'm really curious what the new assessed values come out as in 2025. I see a bunch of sellers refer to their 2024 assessed values as their "list price".

In the past, during the crazy years, assessed values barely mattered since everyone was bidding 10-20%+ on top, but it's much different now that the market has cooled.

They do their assessments in july and the market was slow so people gonna be surprised when they get their assessment in january. Might limit the heloc as well.

[JDMDreams]

Rates have also dropped though so people are able to borrow again, if they cut 0.5% in Dec that should continue to help people out. Cuz everyone who's renewing in 25 will be fucked with higher rates = less money to spend on other things = recession. Can't go to cactus no mo cuz mtg went up by $1000 a month. I know the gov isn't aware of this but I'm sure boc knows, time is ticking and shit isn't looking good

[Hondaracer]

The welfare cheques will make inflation spike and we’ll miss out on another rate cut

[68style]

lol which way you want it? You were asking for costs to be reduced. No carbon tax or refund on GST?

It's the same government coffers you know?

Why does 1 casuse inflation and the other one doesn't? Just cuz you like it better?

[sonick]

"The GST cut and $250 is meaningless won't do jack shit" in one thread and then "it's gonna cause inflation!" In another lol

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by 68style

lol which way you want it? You were asking for costs to be reduced. No carbon tax or refund on GST?

It's the same government coffers you know?

Why does 1 casuse inflation and the other one doesn't? Just cuz you like it better?

Permanent solutions over band aids?

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by sonick

"The GST cut and $250 is meaningless won't do jack shit" in one thread and then "it's gonna cause inflation!" In another lol

Yea.. those both can certainly be true.

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by Traum

I know prices for tiny condo units -- those 500 sq ft type of thing -- have been dropping for a while since there has been an over-supply of them, and the "investor" buyer pool has fallen through. But are prices also falling for normal units -- something like 700 - 800+ sq ft -- that can be lived in?

I was under the impression that prices for those have remained strong because they are actually useful / practical.

My building is seeing a pretty big uptick in units solds per month, in addition to prices being similar to recovering to 2021/2022 peaks, less maybe 1-2%

[unit]

even in commercial here in surrey, vacancy rate is about 4% now. 3 years ago it was under 1%.

[Gerbs]

I think as long as your unit falls in this criteria, it's not gonna drop much and sells quickly
- $450-650K / $660-750K
- 600-750 sqft 1BR or 850 - 1,000 2BR
- Van/BBY
- 2 parking+
- Older units

or

Older TH's under $1.1-1.2M + garage + 3-4BR+

These units are very livable despite older + still affordable for top 20-30% percentile DINKs or top 10% SINK.



It's the retards holding onto new and shiny stuff that are getting owned. The area they bought is also pretty shitty for the price like Surrey, East Brentwood, Deep South Richmond, Edmonds, Coquitlam.
- 2BR's 700sqft for $775-900K, I have 2 friends with this pre-sale in Surrey, complaining they're gonna take a $100K+ loss, why did you pay $1,200/sqft for a 2028 completion in surrey
- 1BR 455-510sqft for $650K-750K
- All 3BR's
- $1.9-2.2M+ Duplexes Also they bought in

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

I think as long as your unit falls in this criteria, it's not gonna drop much and sells quickly
- $450-650K / $660-750K
- 600-750 sqft 1BR or 850 - 1,000 2BR
- Van/BBY
- 2 parking+
- Older units

or

Older TH's under $1.1-1.2M + garage + 3-4BR+

These units are very livable despite older + still affordable for top 20-30% percentile DINKs or top 10% SINK.



It's the retards holding onto new and shiny stuff that are getting owned. The area they bought is also pretty shitty for the price like Surrey, East Brentwood, Deep South Richmond, Edmonds, Coquitlam.
- 2BR's 700sqft for $775-900K, I have 2 friends with this pre-sale in Surrey, complaining they're gonna take a $100K+ loss, why did you pay $1,200/sqft for a 2028 completion in surrey
- 1BR 455-510sqft for $650K-750K
- All 3BR's
- $1.9-2.2M+ Duplexes Also they bought in

The bolded part highlights one of the key differences between an older unit vs a newer one.

Those sizes would be a 2br and a 3br in anything built the last decade, except for some of the high end units (I looked at a presale around Langara back in 2015, 1.3m 1500sqft 3br + den, 2 parking with option for 3rd)

The difference is, the older units are built to be SFH replacements. Whereas nowadays units are built to a price/size/amenity desires. For new immigrants coming from Asia, the small size doesn't pose to be a problem, for everyone of us here who's lived here for 20 years, these new units are terrible.

Here's another difference. Our interior design and construction is still trying to catch up to the new smaller footprints. In HK, my relatives would be custom building all the cabinets and furniture to fit whatever wonky needs or footprint requirements there are, Vancouver local industries aren't built for that. Then there's the huge cost gap, things can be done much cheaper in Asia. My relatives would drop 500k HKD for an all custom reno in a 500sqft condo. You'd probably have to drop 500k CAD to get a all custom reno job in Vancouver for a 2br condo.

[Hondaracer]

^ so that’s this stupid illusion developers use here, which trick the vast majority of buyers.

They stage all these units (ie. a 700 sq fr 2 bed + den) with custom built furniture. This gives the buyer the illusion that they can fit “regular” furnishings in their units

In B.C. and Canada as a whole like you said, no one caters to this. If anything the custom branch is here to build LARGER furniture for custom homes etc. only ultra boutique places to condo style/sized items and they charge $$$$

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

The bolded part highlights one of the key differences between an older unit vs a newer one.

Those sizes would be a 2br and a 3br in anything built the last decade, except for some of the high end units (I looked at a presale around Langara back in 2015, 1.3m 1500sqft 3br + den, 2 parking with option for 3rd)

The difference is, the older units are built to be SFH replacements. Whereas nowadays units are built to a price/size/amenity desires. For new immigrants coming from Asia, the small size doesn't pose to be a problem, for everyone of us here who's lived here for 20 years, these new units are terrible.

All the units in my area / condo are 6xx-7xx sqft 1BR's.

I managed to swipe a 7xx + 200 patio + 100 covered balcony + 2 parking spots for $5xx, they're all selling pretty quick for $6xx+ despite next to skytrain. The interest rates don't seem to affect the price of good units in Vancouver. Everyone wants to be close to the city and reduce commute.

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

The difference is, the older units are built to be SFH replacements. Whereas nowadays units are built to a price/size/amenity desires. For new immigrants coming from Asia, the small size doesn't pose to be a problem, for everyone of us here who's lived here for 20 years, these new units are terrible.

Units nowadays are built to meet a price-quote of $500-650K 1BR. Hence why you see so many 400-505sqft units

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

Everyone wants to be close to the city and reduce commute.

yeah but if you didnt have a expensive place in the city, you wouldnt need to work and therefore no need to commute.