Oh shit this is really hitting close to home.

One of the reasons we moved back to Toronto was because we have a lot of friends and family here.

Twist: we see them even less now than we used to, when we lived in California (FaceTime + flying over to visit).

We thought as long as we were in the GTA, close enough. But it turns out between everyone having their own kids to chase around, and being avg 20+ minutes northeast of us (Markham, Richmond Hill, Scarborough, etc), we see these groups only once every few months.

We have family friends with a same-aged kid who come over at least every other week, but they're sadly also planning to move out that way.

Makes me think maybe we should move too. Though who knows, maybe we'll make new friends as the kids grow up.

Because people show their true colors over the internet, and cover it up in person.

People without kids, that come to your place and are all happy cheery around your kids, are just doing that so you dont judge them. (And ofcourse some actually enjoy others kids).
Then they leave after dinner, look over to their spouse, and say "ah finally, dont need to deal with his kids for another 2 months, reminds me why we dont have any"

My moms family friend, had a second child like 15 years later: for context, im really blunt around people.
Every time there was a family gathering, the mom would always ask me why i dont say hello, hold, or engage with her baby / child. If it crawled on me i would usually have a disgusted face.
Mom proceeded to eventually start ignoring me when i said hi to her, LOL.
Its a two way street, keep your dam drooling baby off me, and you will not have to witness me being disgusted by it.

This is is why people will never be rude around your kids in person.

^If you have kids or want kids, I'd never knock that, and I actually enjoy occasionally hanging out with my friend's kids, especially when they're a little older and able to engage more.

You're right donk, people put on a façade and are usually full of shit.

That's why I like Bill Maher's take on it, he doesn't hide his disdain, he says the quiet part out loud and wants nothing to do with hanging out with your kids :lol

Having kids or not having kids is a life altering decision. Generally people want to convince themselves that they made the right choice so they double down on the perks of those choices. This goes both ways, lots of people with kids seem to think people that chose not to have kids are weird.

I know before I had a kid people who already had kids would always ask me "so when are you having kids??"

It's not for everyone. I waited longer than most people to have a kid but I was at the point in my life where it felt right for our situation. I'm at the age where going to see Nelly doesn't hit the same anymore, taking my kid to the zoo gives me way more enjoyment.

I still have a few nights a year I'll go get drunk with my buddies at a bar but the urge to do that has gone down so much compared to 10 years ago.

Because people like you have this visceral response like this? :lol

You see a lot of this on social media, people with kids losing their minds about someone saying they chose not to have kids because they want to travel, focus on their business, etc.

The comments are jammed with people telling that person they are wrong and they are “missing out” on the joy of parenthood.

My wife bitch aunt is like that “you’ll never know love until you have had a child” oh really? You mean your divorce and raising your child with a step father they hated was “love”? :lol

I’ve never once had a desire to have kids, wife is the same. When someone says my kids are the reason I don’t see anyone and Mike says, he’s glad he’s not hung up by things like that, it isn’t some sort of attack on you, but many like you take it exactly like that..

I experienced this before I had kids when I lived in Victoria - I felt closer to my Vancouver friends even though we didn't see each other as much as we had to make more of an effort to see each other and each time we did it was a bigger deal (like them coming over to Victoria to see me or me coming back just to see them).

Now that we're back I see some of them less - in a way I take them for granted b/c they're just down the road (in the same way I take for granted all the great stuff about Vancouver).

Of course adding kids into the mix complicates things immensely - there's classes/sports etc that your kid has that don't match their kids schedule, maybe the kids don't get along (different ages, gender, interests) - plus all the normal home owner and family stuff that comes up and it's really hard to find time for friends.

Like, I just spent the first 3 days of Easter weekend working on my yard and basically neglected my kid so come Monday I just wanted to hang with her - friends are WAY down the list of priorities for me in cases like this.

If someone says "I chose not to have kids and this is why" that's totally respectable.

But that's not what was said at all (at least until the very end of your last post)

The earlier responses were "That's why YOU shouldn't have kids" and stuff like "If you don't see your friends because of your kids, blah blah blah".

One is a totally fair statement that explains one's rationale.

The other says nothing about one's personal rationale and is only judging another person's decisions.

Well yea when someone says “that’s why you shouldn’t have kids” in that manner I’d say most of the time it’s pretty tongue in cheek

Fwiw, I didn't think Mike's meant "you" like you specifically. Nor even parents in general.

I figure he meant "you" figuratively, as in "This is a strong reason against having kids - to be considered, of course, amidst a much broader set of tradeoffs - for hypothetically some person contemplating whether they should."

Kudos to everyone who doesn't want kids, doing the right thing to stay the course. It's hard enough being a decent parent even when you want to be one. You have to do right by them even in the face of them being complete dbags. No doubt it's rewarding but wow do you ever pay for it lol.

All of y’all’s should have more children so these 3rd world scum don’t overpopulate us and take over. We need population to ensure our values are protected.

That being said, your kids are disgusting entitled little shits that I’ll never hire……. But plz keep making them ! For our sake

i see responses that are without tact on both sides all the time. nowadays people are deciding to have kids less than ever before, so parents shouldn't rub in the whole schtick about people missing out, and likewise people who don't want kids shouldn't be dicks about having extra time/money/freedom by staying dinks.

as for me i won't have kids, i'm not really a kid person who knows how to play with a toddler and make them laugh. that being said i would never be rude to kids or parents with kids, and i actually don't mind hanging out with my friends even if they bring their kid along, it's the only way to stay friends with your friends who became parents. if you value your friendship with your parent friends then you should do the same. what i don't like is going to the kids bdays with 20 kids running around... i will come for the first hour then slip out the door quietly.. lol

https://media.tenor.com/66MlWLOw8gYA...ney-crying.png
I sympathize with you parents. Sniff sniff

I learned what love was by having kids. How much I love some god damn piece and quiet.

Have kids if you're ready and want to, don't if you don't. It does suck when so many smart kind people don't have kids, and the trash crank those little shits out.

That's why we need immigrants. They aren't usually the deadbeats, at least the ones that come here it seems.

I suggest all us non breeders to donate sperm and then infuse with some 3rd world trash to make normal human beings to repopulate western society.

I need some nurses to wipe my ass in another 10 years when I retire.

One of the challenges I've found when it comes to friends now that I have a kid (and I'm also older) is that my friend circle fractures into very different demographics:

- Friends with kids that are about the same age is my kid. Ideally the parents are a similar age to me too (this is a challenge for me sometimes).
- Friends with kids who are not similar ages to my kids.
- Friends with no kids who are in a long term relationship.
- Friends with no kids who are single.

Pre-kid I only had to think about group 3 and 4 and those two groups generally had similar lifestyles (before turning 40 they did) and hanging out together was EASY. Most of us made similar money, grew up with similar families, had few responsibilities, and we were still open to new things.

Managing all 4 demographics is way harder now - some of my no kid friends love kids, some of them don't. The no kid friends like later dinners, the parents gotta wrap up dinner by 7-ish to get the kids to bed or be home by 10p to relive the babysitter. BBQ get together? So and So's kid has a dance thing at 3pm, buttface's kid is going through teen drama, DINK gonna a FEW drinks and maybe smoke some weed. It's really hard to hang out with all 4 demographics at once - you can do it but it's kinda no fun to do it.

Example: I turn 50 in January and I've been thinking about whether I want to throw a party with my friends to celebrate - if I do my kid won't be there, she needs to be in bed by 8-ish. BUT I kinda want to spend my birthday with my kid. I can do both separately but $$$ and time.

Do people make new friends? I guess my kids are young right now, but the thought of making new friends is weird af.

ITT: People justifying their life choices

Becoming a parent forced me to think of people beyond myself and made me somewhat more empathetic in general.

There are some tough days, but it's pretty awesome in general. I've been a parent for 10 years and my children are pretty fascinating and sharp. In my experience, people also treat me with more respect when I reveal that I'm father and sometimes, this increased credibility matters both professionally and personally. I didn't become a parent to get more respect, but this is what I have observed over the past 10 years.

Generally speaking, we're lacking a lot of empathy these days. Are we better off with the increasing vanity and selfishness in society?

Where's your kids CivicBlueballs????? :ilied: <actual scrotum pic

Yes but it's hard and not common. By 30 or so you've pretty much made friends with the people who are your core friends. Anyone else is a guest. You'll never have the same memories to lean on or the same knowledge of their lives (like my newer friends have never met my parents or my brother and vice versa).

I’m hoping to have a kid or kids one day as well, I just know it’ll suck after they grow up a bit and don’t want to hang out with a lame dad. Then it’ll be difficult to reconnect with old friends, which is why most older people have depression and feel lonely.

lol

not to get too personal but growing up I didn't want anything to do with kids of my own or other people's kids. Now, we can't have kids (medical condition - Thanks Universe!! /s) and while that sorta makes things easier for us, I certainly don't begrudge anyone for having kids anymore nor for anyone who actively chooses not to. Changing each other's mind on the subject as to "who is happier" is a non-starter. It's almost as hard as trying to convince a liberal to be a conservative or vice versa. EleGiggle

Guess what I'm trying to say is getting a committed Child-Free person to admit they are unhappy or unfulfilled is about as futile as trying to convince the typical Parent they've wasted their lives. So why bother? Just be glad you have the choice either way.