Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[sonick]

Originally Posted by godwin

Do pray tell how do you know who your neighbors are in a new build? or even an old build? Do you knock on each door in a complex to ask where they are from? or hire a PI?

Sounds like a good idea, but impossible to implement.

Similarly to reading the stories about using gas ranges as heat, reading the strata notes and seeing the names, complaints, and the types of incidents that have occurred in the past would give some idea.

[Timpo]

[Adorkami]

Was looking online at a house in burnaby, went on the market around the end of last week for 799k and before i could get a chance to see it the house was sold for 900k

[subordinate]

Originally Posted by Adorkami

Was looking online at a house in burnaby, went on the market around the end of last week for 799k and before i could get a chance to see it the house was sold for 900k

Just...

I hope Vancouver isn't some freak of a bubble where these Foreign buyers keep snapping up property.

Calgary is starting drop, now that Oil has collapsed.

[Timpo]

look at the income needed for West Vancouver

[Special K]

Originally Posted by Adorkami

Was looking online at a house in burnaby, went on the market around the end of last week for 799k and before i could get a chance to see it the house was sold for 900k

You mean just for land value? $800k-900k just comes with a bunch of wood and nails in Burnaby.

[asian_XL]

your income can be zero to own, all you need is a bank account full of money transferred from China.

[4444]

for those that know, what are the guidelines for banks, what mortgage amount will they give you as a multiple of earnings?

edit: according to the above pic, what is needed is 4.5 - 5.5x income to afford.
historically in the US 5x is seen as over priced, 3x or so is seen as healthy - this is a statement of fact, not opinion.

[GLOW]

am i interpreting the graphic correctly?

for vancouver, a yearly income of 152k is required to borrow 810k for a home with zero down payment?

[AWDTurboLuvr]

Originally Posted by GLOW

am i interpreting the graphic correctly?

for vancouver, a yearly income of 152k is required to borrow 810k for a home with zero down payment?

They make a rule for the housing costs to not be greater than 32% of the household income. It's based on 5% downpayment with fixed interest rate of 2.74%, 5-year amortization. Accounts for property taxes, interest on the loan, and heating. Also includes the mandatory mortgage default insurance.

[Mr.Money]

i was thinking,unless your second generation chinese you should automatically have a out of country tax for land purchases of 400 grand or forfeit it if you can't pay it in a year local bidder gets forfeited land in auction for highest bid.

[SupraMan604]

Corrected:

Originally Posted by AWDTurboLuvr

They make a rule for the housing costs to not be greater than 39% of the household income. It's based on 5% downpayment with fixed interest rate of 2.64%, 25-year amortization. Accounts for property taxes, interest on the loan, and heating. Also includes the mandatory mortgage default insurance.

From my Credit Union, and this is for a non-conventional mortgage that is less than 20% down payment. Maybe why we can borrow more than the banks? Go Credit Unions!

[jasonturbo]

So it seems the spouse and I will be returning to the GVA shortly, started looking at homes to buy/rent this weekend.

I have to say, in North Van and DT Van the prices seem to have climbed a bit over the last couple years, nothing surprising though.

However, I do find it surprising how much the delta in the buy/rent ratio has tightened up considerably - obviously linked to the fact that Vancouver has a vacancy rate of .4%.

As a practical example, when we left Vancouver in early 2013 our rent was about 1750$/month for a home that would cost 450K to buy. At this time it was difficult for someone with a small downpayment to buy a condo for the purpose of renting without subsidizing their tenants. Today, a similar property with a market valuation of say 475K rents for more like 2300$/month, a scenario where it is far less likely for the same landlord under the same conditions to be subsidizing their tenant.

So in the same time period that we've seen say a roughly 6% increase in property values there has been an increase of roughly 30% in rent costs.

Anecdotal I know, but nevertheless, it's reality for me.

For this reason, and for the lack of rental options, it is far more likely that we will buy a home than rent upon our return.

[Harvey Specter]

Timpo's chart is good but bit outdated seeing how the average home price in metro Vancouver is close to a million and usually a million will get you a small lot, not a desirable area and will usually be a tear down.

And on the topic of tear downs, I was sent a listing for a tear down in Fraserview which was listed for $1.7m. Beyond shocking.

[iEatClams]

Not new, most people already know that Financial advisors and bankers were helping the chinese avoid detection and funnel funds out of china.

But then they also had that immigrant investor program that allowed them to bring in a lot of money too before it was cancelled. Then you had the Quebec Immigrant Investor Program where 90% of the "investors" end up leaving quebec to either BC or Ontario.

Canadian bank helping clients bend rules to move money out of China - The Globe and Mail

Some Canadian banks allow wealthy Asian investors to skirt Chinese law by helping them bring in large amounts of money that is often used to buy real estate in Vancouver.

Financial institutions in the area have flagged more than 8,200 suspicious transactions since January, 2012, the year China began cracking down on citizens they suspect of corruption.


Video: How foreign investors are playing China's plunging stock markets
Stephen Harper is promising to investigate how much Canadian housing is owned by non-resident foreign investors, if his Conservatives are re-elected in October. Harper made the pledge Wednesday at a Vancouver event.
VIDEO
Video: Re-elected Tories would track foreign home ownership: Harper
Ninety-six per cent of those transactions were also facilitated by the banks, however, even though the vast majority of that business involved suspected money laundering, according to FinTRAC, the federal agency responsible for tracking money laundering.

These findings, obtained by The Globe and Mail through an Access To Information Request, come as a debate rages over the source of foreign investment and Vancouver’s soaring luxury housing markets. A recent study by Macdonald Realty said 70 per cent of clients who paid more than $3-million for Vancouver houses last year were from China.

It is illegal for Chinese citizens to remove more than $50,000 (U.S.) a year from China without government permission, partly to stop corrupt millionaires from fleeing with their money. But a review of B.C. court cases by The Globe found they have worked around this restriction by sending millions of dollars into Vancouver-area banks through multiple wire transactions of smaller amounts by family and friends.

Banks are legally obligated to report transactions they deem suspicious to FinTRAC, the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada, but do not have to stop them or shut down accounts. The agency’s mandate is to gather and analyze those reports. It will not say what percentage involve this type of foreign investment, but said almost none that do are passed on to police.

The data are raising serious questions among legal experts about the effectiveness of federal laws meant to curb money laundering and transnational crime, and shines a light on a system that is time-consuming and expensive for taxpayers.

“The whole regime is a waste of money,” said lawyer Christine Duhaime, an internationally accredited expert on money laundering who has testified before parliamentary committees. “It seems to be completely ineffective.”


In her experience, Ms. Duhaime said, Canadian police do not have the resources to take on these cases.

“I think they also might face obstacles in China because of political differences between the two countries.”

FinTRAC’s guidelines on what banks should consider suspicious include multiple deposits to a client’s account by third parties, a high volume of wire transfers and frequent wire transfers to a client from individuals who do not have an account with the bank.

A recent B.C. court case heard that CIBC regularly helped wealthy clients move large amounts of money out of China – using several transactions and multiple third parties – even though the bank is familiar with Chinese law.

“This process is often conducted using different remitters in the same Chinese city sending funds to one or more accounts in CIBC, then through a common financial adviser get the funds collected back in one account – to be paid out to a law firm,” testified Kim Clark, a CIBC corporate-security investigator.

That testimony came in an ongoing wrongful dismissal suit by Guiyun Ogden, who was a top-tier financial adviser with CIBC’s Imperial Service unit. Ms. Ogden managed a $233-million (Canadian) portfolio for wealthy Chinese clients in Vancouver.

She helped a client move $500,000 (U.S.) out of China by using friends and relatives to send 10 wire transfers into 10 different CIBC accounts overnight. Ms. Ogden then transferred the money into another account for her client to use as a down payment on a $5.7-million (Canadian) Vancouver mansion.

Ms. Ogden was fired for moving some of that money through her own CIBC accounts. But the bank supported the practice of multiple transactions, according to a 2014 written ruling by Supreme Court of British Columbia Justice Randall Wong.

The testimony from CIBC’s Mr. Clark suggested the practice “enabled the client to say, ‘I am not bringing in $500,000 (U.S.) from China; me and these nine other third parties are each bringing in $50,000.’”

Ms. Duhaime said she has seen other examples of this practice.

“I have seen the bank transaction forms, where $50,000 has been wired out multiple times by several people at one bank in China,” she said. “There is so much money that is being made out of immigrants coming from China to Canada, I suspect no one wants to rattle that cage too much.”

The Globe and Mail asked HSBC, RBC and TD Canada Trust if they also facilitate multiple wire transfers like this from China. None of those banks answered that question specifically except RBC, which indicated it might shut down the account instead.

“Multiple wire transfers may be indicative of suspicious transactions,” spokesman Don Blair said. “Where RBC is of the view that a suspicious transaction report needs to be filed with FinTRAC, we will do so. In addition … RBC may close accounts and terminate relationships.”

In their responses to multiple inquiries by The Globe, all of the banks stressed that they are compliant with the law by reporting suspicious activity to FinTRAC.

In a 2011 e-mail highlighted in the court case, Steven Harvey, national director of CIBC’s anti-money laundering group, advised Mr. Clark the bank “generally [has] no obligation under any foreign law.”

When asked about this practice in general, Ms. Duhaime said, “They are facilitating breaking banking laws in China and they think that’s okay. It’s not. Our anti-money laundering laws say we need to be concerned if someone is breaking the law in another country.”

Canada’s proceeds of crime legislation exists partly “to assist in fulfilling Canada’s international commitments to participate in the fight against transnational crime, particularly money laundering.”

CIBC defended its practices. “It is the responsibility of the remitting institution in China to scrutinize whether the remittance transaction or transactions are in compliance with Chinese laws,” CIBC spokesperson Kevin Dove said.

“We fully appreciate the sensitivity of this issue, but we maintain that the structure of these transactions undertaken by our clients complies with Canadian banking laws and that we have no means or reason to deny them.”

Realtors who specialize in luxury housing say many of their wealthy clients get the money they use to buy homes to Canada though these transactions.

In the Ogden case, CIBC did not report the transactions as suspicious.

Notaries and lawyers are also legally obliged to report suspicious activity to FinTRAC. However, Ron Usher, a lawyer for an organization that advises B.C. notaries on real estate deals, said the banks are the ones that see how the money got to Canada.

“Our members then get that money from the bank – in a Canadian bank draft – and they have no idea that this involves a suspicious transaction,” Mr. Usher said. “… So we really don’t have a system that actually seems to stop anything.”

Other B.C. cases in family court show how millionaires moved their money out of China through multiple transfers into Canadian bank accounts held by spouses and relatives here.

Fang Long came to Canada with her husband, Lin Li, in 2007, but was left alone for long stretches while he did business in China. The couple bought three Vancouver properties, two of them worth more than $1-million (Canadian).

Mr. Li admitted in a B.C. court he transferred more than $3-million out of China into accounts at Vancouver financial institutions, all in Ms. Long’s name. Some of that money was wired by his family members in China in $50,000 (U.S.) increments.

He then fled to Canada. The Chinese government froze his remaining business assets and issued a warrant for his arrest for misappropriating funds.

A recent Department of Finance report, along with the data from FinTRAC, suggests Ottawa is aware money is being laundered through Canadian bank accounts on a large scale.

“There are many sectors and products that are highly vulnerable to money laundering … domestic banks … were rated the most vulnerable, or very high,” the July, 2015, report says.

It said Canada spends $70-million (Canadian) a year on 11 agencies – including FinTRAC – tasked with fixing that.

“We are not seeing many prosecutions or crimes detected. So either it is spectacularly successful or it’s spectacularly useless,” Mr. Usher said.

“We are all enrolled as bit players in this great theatrical production of security theatre … pretending [by reporting to FinTRAC] that we are doing something important.”

[chunk_stir]

Found this great interactive rent vs buy calculator from the NYT - set the Tax section to "0" as it is an American calculation.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...ator.html?_r=0

[heleu]

Originally Posted by chunk_stir

Found this great interactive rent vs buy calculator from the NYT - set the Tax section to "0" as it is an American calculation.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...ator.html?_r=0

Nice interface. But it's mostly dependent on how much your house/property will appreciate over the years.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

Anecdotal I know, but nevertheless, it's reality for me.

For this reason, and for the lack of rental options, it is far more likely that we will buy a home than rent upon our return.

This is what it came down to for us. The rental options are next to nothing. Add having a dog, never mind a large dog, never mind a pitbull looking mutt, rental options are essentially non existent, and hilariously expensive if you can find even one. As much as I wanted to spend most of that down payment on a porsche, I got sick of the rental rat race here. When do you think you will make the trek out here?

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by westopher

I got sick of the rental rat race here.

someone say rat race?

http://www.revscene.net/forums/70509...ming-pool.html

[AWDTurboLuvr]

Originally Posted by SupraMan604

Corrected:



From my Credit Union, and this is for a non-conventional mortgage that is less than 20% down payment. Maybe why we can borrow more than the banks? Go Credit Unions!

The information and requirements for the infographic was originally posted on FP.

Here?s how much money you need to make to buy a house in your city | Financial Post

[jasonturbo]

Originally Posted by westopher

This is what it came down to for us. The rental options are next to nothing. Add having a dog, never mind a large dog, never mind a pitbull looking mutt, rental options are essentially non existent, and hilariously expensive if you can find even one. As much as I wanted to spend most of that down payment on a porsche, I got sick of the rental rat race here. When do you think you will make the trek out here?

Anytime between November 2015 and May 2016. The rental market in Van is horrid and I also suffer from the curse of animal ownership... it's seriously like a fucking petting zoo in my house.

Spoiler!

Complicated situation for us though, between where I am at financially and my current work situation it's probably best we delay the move until early summer 2016.... but I really don't want to endure another Alberta winter.

We're also fixed on a house/townhouse, so the price point we are facing is somewhere between 600K-1.25M.

My spouses grandpa lives in an old home in deep cove in a nice area, I keep telling him how much I love his house so that hopefully he sells it to us for a decent price.

... in reality though I'll tear that shitty old bungalow down in a heartbeat and build some gaudy monstrosity for the neighbors to moan about.

[Dragon-88]

[Traum]

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

My spouses grandpa lives in an old home in deep cove in a nice area, I keep telling him how much I love his house so that hopefully he sells it to us for a decent price.

If that's a place you have an eye for, don't just tell him how much you love his house. Go in and make him a reasonable offer. I've had similar situations arising with friends and family on other (non-house) things, and they almost never took the remark seriously. Granted, sometimes I am not being too serious either. But it has happened enough times that I have since stopped making this kind of casual remarks.

Give him a fair offer and see where that takes you.

[Gululu]

Land assembly of 7 old houses on the Granville Street between 45th and 47th ave sold for just over $22 million to Hui Xiang International Realty Devlopment

Million-dollar land assemblies speculate on zoning changes

[4444]

Originally Posted by Gululu

Land assembly of 7 old houses on the Granville Street between 45th and 47th ave sold for just over $22 million to Hui Xiang International Realty Devlopment

Million-dollar land assemblies speculate on zoning changes

speculation is worse than gambling. at least with gambling you know the odds.