Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[Adorkami]

Trying to buy a house in this market is so damn depressing. One house I bid on went for 50% more than the assessment value, another house I bid 80k over asking but still got outbid by a bunch of mainlanders. I know assessment value doesn't equal market value but just frustrating to see house listed 100k+ above assessed value and then still going above asking. Even a house i saw in Burnaby going for 1,050,000 that would need a bunch of renos went for 1,300,000. I wonder if there will be any changes to foreign ownership after the elections, a 20% increase in housing prices in a year is ridiculous.

[!LittleDragon]

Look for stale listings, there's tons out there despite what the media says. Just be observant when you drive around. Take note of the for sale signs and if they're still there 2 months later, make an offer.

On my route to work....

1016 NANAIMO STREET MLS®-V1138761 for Sale | RE/MAX
66 days on market

2607 Nanaimo St, Vancouver, MLS® V1143352 : EstateBlock.com
36 days on market

2651 MCGILL STREET MLS®-V1143280 for Sale | RE/MAX
38 days on market

2995 MCGILL STREET MLS®-V1138211 for Sale | RE/MAX
70 days on market

2004 LARSON ROAD MLS®-V1140202 for Sale | RE/MAX
59 days

That's just some of the ones I see on my daily commute. What's interesting is if you google an address with the terms days on market, you'll find that different sites will give different numbers. That's from relisting after it gets too stale so it shows up as a new listing. Some sites are even hiding this number now.

Not saying buy a house on a busy route but be observant when you go out. Find an area you want to live in, take a day and explore the area. Take note of which houses are for sale then come back a month later and see if they still have a sign. The longer it's been on sale the better. But remember, people will only pay what the market will bear.

[blkgsr]

well i'm sure glad i didn't sell last april and decided to rent it out while away.

just looked at mls and housing prices in my neighbourhood have almost gone up another $100K give or take

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Adorkami

Trying to buy a house in this market is so damn depressing. One house I bid on went for 50% more than the assessment value, another house I bid 80k over asking but still got outbid by a bunch of mainlanders. I know assessment value doesn't equal market value but just frustrating to see house listed 100k+ above assessed value and then still going above asking. Even a house i saw in Burnaby going for 1,050,000 that would need a bunch of renos went for 1,300,000. I wonder if there will be any changes to foreign ownership after the elections, a 20% increase in housing prices in a year is ridiculous.

You gotta pay to play if you want a 'good' property in van/rich/bby. There's a reason they are popular, and you can't put it just on mainlanders or foreign ownership. Maybe look into an area that's not in as high demand.

Or keep on waiting for the bubble to pop

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by !LittleDragon

Look for stale listings, there's tons out there despite what the media says.

Not saying buy a house on a busy route but be observant when you go out. Find an area you want to live in, take a day and explore the area. Take note of which houses are for sale then come back a month later and see if they still have a sign. The longer it's been on sale the better. But remember, people will only pay what the market will bear.

What you have said is the complete opposite of what I have been seeing, which, I think will be the same as what Adorkami is seeing.

Generally, most houses that go up for sale follow the same formula. List the price at $100K above last year's assessment. Have an open house showing on the weekend and take offers on the following Monday.
Most of the houses that I have looked at are selling for $50K or more above asking price and some are selling within 5-7 days with no subjects.

People are no longer paying what the market will bear. They are paying based on emotions when they get into a bidding war.

Let's look at the listings you posted.

They all share a few things in common.
1) Way above asking price from what other similar units are asking for
2) either very old and in need of reno's or are brand new the buyer will have to pay 5% GST

Listing #1 asking over $1M. While many that I see of that age and yardage are selling for over $1M, they start by asking for $900K or less. In this case, this unit will definitely need some renos.

Here's an example. 2438 Dundas st. Asking price $985K sold for $1.1M and was only on the market for 7 days. And the lot size is bigger than the one you listed.

Listing #2 asking for $1.35M. 67 year old tear down.

Listing #3 asking for $1.468M in a less than standard size lot house that is brand new. So the buyer would have to pay an extra $73,400 in GST if they bought for asking price. Um, no.

Listing #4 $949K, seems like a pretty good starting price for a 41 year old Vancouver special. A few similar units sold for over $1M. We can only guess the owner is waiting for a payday and not willing to take even the asking price since the unit hasn't sold and the owner hasn't lowered the asking price.

Listing #5, $1.149M for a brand new house so the new owner will have to pay GST and the lot size is only 3500 sq ft, which is much smaller than a standard size lot. For that price, potential buyers have other options.

Currently, we are looking for a house and a bunch of brand new Duplexes are selling for $800K to $950K in Vancouver. These are brand new units and the more expensive ones include a 350-400 sq ft illegal rental basement unit.

[!LittleDragon]

Those are just some of the listings on a 25km commute that have a days on market more than 30 days. There are more that are in better shape that I didn't post because the days on market are less than two weeks because they've been relisted but the for sale sign has been up for at least a quarter. Stale listings are definitely out there, finding a good one is like picking an unloved stock. Tune out the hype and be observant.

Bidding wars and emotional buying.... doesn't sound like the MO of foreign money.

[UFO]

Well there's usually a reason these listings go stale. Its easy noting these from a distance, but those immersed in the market will determine the final sale price. There are no bargains in van/rich/bby detached properties

[!LittleDragon]

7040 NO. 2 ROAD, Richmond, British Columbia V7C3L6 - V1138155 | Realtor.ca

70 days on market, under a million, doesn't need a lot of work. I guess people don't believe in starter homes anymore... lol

11891 AZTEC STREET, Richmond, British Columbia V6X1H9 - V1122096 | Realtor.ca

160 days on market, under a million, already reno'd, decent size lot and floor space.

11237 Daniels Rd, Richmond, MLS® V1143511 : EstateBlock.com

37 days on market, under $900k


That's just from 10 minutes of playing with the MLS filters and googling how long they've been listed. I obviously didn't click on every listing I found but they're out there. Keep looking and you'll find what you're looking for. Don't get into a bidding war, it's one of those things in life that even if you win, you lose...

[Adorkami]

The house that i bid over listing price was at $992,000. Had obvious cracks, the balcony was rotted, everything in the house was original (built in 1980) and would easily need over $100k in renos and it sold for $1,310,000 with no subjects. I agree that there are lots of houses that end up sitting on the market but lots of them have negative features like being on a busy road, next to a skytrain route, smell like cat piss(i'm assuming they cant get the smell out otherwise they would show it w/o the smell), need major renovations to update the interior or they are a total tear down.

[melloman]

Some of you guys need a reality check TBH.

If you are looking in Vancouver, Burnaby & Richmond (apparently), EXPECT to pay $1M for a home that either needs work or is a tear down.

It's not the emotions that come into play, it's how bad you want to buy. Lots of people are buying right now with the hope/fear that prices will continue to rise as time goes by. Mainlanders/Foreign investors are now moving into Commercial properties and away from residential as the market has ballooned too far for it to be a smart investment.

Example: My neighbour in Burnaby listed their home on the market for $1.25M. It was worth MAYBE $900k, and was DEFINITELY a teardown. It sold within 3 weeks, for $1.4M with the condition that the current home owner would still live there for another YEAR.

Some people just really want to buy detached while they "still can."

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by !LittleDragon

7040 NO. 2 ROAD, Richmond, British Columbia $ V7C3L6 - V1138155 | Realtor.ca

70 days on market, under a million, doesn't need a lot of work. I guess people don't believe in starter homes anymore... lol

11891 AZTEC STREET, Richmond, British Columbia $ V6X1H9 - V1122096 | Realtor.ca

160 days on market, under a million, already reno'd, decent size lot and floor space.

11237 Daniels Rd, Richmond, MLS® V1143511 : EstateBlock.com

37 days on market, under $900k


That's just from 10 minutes of playing with the MLS filters and googling how long they've been listed. I obviously didn't click on every listing I found but they're out there. Keep looking and you'll find what you're looking for. Don't get into a bidding war, it's one of those things in life that even if you win, you lose...

First unit is sitting empty and no one is buying it even though the price isn't that high. My only guess is the house either smells like cat piss, has a poltergeist, or the owner is waiting for someone to offer them $1M.
A similar unit close to them recently sold for $950K. Similar age unit, similar area and similar yardage.

Second unit. Definitely waiting for a payday as they haven't lowered their price and it's been on the market since May 10.
No point really, as it looks like they may still be living in that house.

Third unit hit the market on Sept 8th asking $929,800. They only lowered their price Sept 22. So there may be some flex on that unit, assuming it hasn't already sold and MLS hasn't been updated yet.

Here's one of my personal experiences last month.
Smaller house in Richmond.
Asking price was in the $670K. Only 1 offer given for $700K but that didn't go through as the buyers couldn't get financing.
We were about to give them an offer but their realtor said the owner won't accept anything less than $700K. We offered $698K and the owners said no. Not a dollar less than $700K.
We didn't love the house enough to give him that much so we walked away. And now the house is sold, someone paid $700K for it.

[blkgsr]

Originally Posted by !LittleDragon

7040 NO. 2 ROAD, Richmond, British Columbia $ V7C3L6 - V1138155 | Realtor.ca

11891 AZTEC STREET, Richmond, British Columbia $ V6X1H9 - V1122096 | Realtor.ca

11237 Daniels Rd, Richmond, MLS® V1143511 : EstateBlock.com
.

holy fuck are these realtors that cheap they're just taking cell phone or shitty pictures???

i had a 1% agent list my house and she brought in a pro photographer that took some great pictures....how do they even remotely think it's ok to post blurry pictures of the kitchen???

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

Asking price was in the $670K. Only 1 offer given for $700K but that didn't go through as the buyers couldn't get financing.
We were about to give them an offer but their realtor said the owner won't accept anything less than $700K. We offered $698K and the owners said no. Not a dollar less than $700K.
We didn't love the house enough to give him that much so we walked away. And now the house is sold, someone paid $700K for it.

I don't understand this attitude at all, a primary residence especially with a wife and or kids is certainly an investment but also has to meet many noninvesting criteria - neighbourhood, schools, design, etc.

The difference between $698k and $700k is literally a rounding error in your payment, you were willing to pay $28k over asking but not $30k?! There is no such thing as loving a place enough to pay 698 but not 700, it's simply not quantifiable. At the end of the day this was just a question of ego - neither of you were willing to lose face over $2k.

You either missed out on buying a house that you wanted because you wouldn't pay $7.39/month more or almost paid $698k for a house you didn't want. Both are scary concepts.

Mark

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by lowside67

I don't understand this attitude at all, a primary residence especially with a wife and or kids is certainly an investment but also has to meet many noninvesting criteria - neighbourhood, schools, design, etc.

The difference between $698k and $700k is literally a rounding error in your payment, you were willing to pay $28k over asking but not $30k?! There is no such thing as loving a place enough to pay 698 but not 700, it's simply not quantifiable. At the end of the day this was just a question of ego - neither of you were willing to lose face over $2k.

You either missed out on buying a house that you wanted because you wouldn't pay $7.39/month more or almost paid $698k for a house you didn't want. Both are scary concepts.

Mark

I already said it in my post. We didn't love the place enough to buy it for $700K.

We weren't even that serious about given them $698K given the fact that they had the place listed for $670K and there was only one offer and that offer fell through due to financing.

At most, we were only going to offer them $650K for their 1200 sqft house.

Oh yeah, since you didn't ask, that house also had a lot of shady reno's. Illegal unit in the attic. Black mold around the illegally installed window in said attic. Kitchen looked like it was from the early 80's including fluorescent tube lights that looked like there were installed as an after thought.

And what the fuck is this lose face thing? We are buying something that is going to cost close to 3/4 of a Mill. For you it might be pocket change, but for others, this is a very big purchase. So no, it's not a matter of face but a matter of we slept on it and felt we didn't love it enough to pay their asking price for it.

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

We weren't even that serious about given them $698K given the fact that they had the place listed for $670K and there was only one offer and that offer fell through due to financing.

At most, we were only going to offer them $650K for their 1200 sqft house.

So let me get this straight... you were "going to only offer them" $650k but then somehow offered them $698k.

My point was simply that there are only two possibilities...
1) You had no business making a $698k offer because you didn't want it
or
2) You should have paid $700k.

You have just clarified that it's Option 1, that's cool. Glad they didn't take your offer because it sounds like you just about made a huge mistake...

You can fail me until you are blue in the face, those are simple facts. I also made an offer on a place and the owners also came back with $2.5k over my asking price... I paid it because we actually wanted the place. And it was $422k so there is really no reason to get all snippy about "$2k not being a lot of money" or something about my income.

Mark

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by lowside67

So let me get this straight... you were "going to only offer them" $650k but then somehow offered them $698k.

My point was simply that there are only two possibilities...
1) You had no business making a $698k offer because you didn't want it
or
2) You should have paid $700k.

You have just clarified that it's Option 1, that's cool. Glad they didn't take your offer because it sounds like you just about made a huge mistake...

You can fail me until you are blue in the face, those are simple facts. I also made an offer on a place and the owners also came back with $2.5k over my asking price... I paid it because we actually wanted the place. And it was $422k so there is really no reason to get all snippy about "$2k not being a lot of money" or something about my income.

Mark

I get your point and I think it totally makes sense. What's an extra 2k when you are spending 698k?

But some people are like that and I call it "personal principle".

I had this friend who is a fuerdai and was looking at a place in West side back in 2009... the asking was 1.58M I believe... he offered 1.5M, and the seller countered with 1.55M. My friend didn't budge and said no. The agent, wanting to get the sales done as he was representing both side worked a deal with the seller regarding his commission to bring the offer down to 1.52M... but no... my friend simply walked away and bought another place for 1.8M.

I asked him why not take the other place for 1.52M? (I thought it had better layout and located on a quieter street albeit a bit smaller) and he said it's a matter of principle. And yes, he agreed the other place was a better buy.

[blkgsr]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

I already said it in my post. We didn't love the place enough to buy it for $700K.

We weren't even that serious about given them $698K given the fact that they had the place listed for $670K and there was only one offer and that offer fell through due to financing.

At most, we were only going to offer them $650K for their 1200 sqft house.

Oh yeah, since you didn't ask, that house also had a lot of shady reno's. Illegal unit in the attic. Black mold around the illegally installed window in said attic. Kitchen looked like it was from the early 80's including fluorescent tube lights that looked like there were installed as an after thought.

And what the fuck is this lose face thing? We are buying something that is going to cost close to 3/4 of a Mill. For you it might be pocket change, but for others, this is a very big purchase. So no, it's not a matter of face but a matter of we slept on it and felt we didn't love it enough to pay their asking price for it.

why the hell would you ever buy it in the first place then???

[EmperorIS]

Originally Posted by Hehe

I get your point and I think it totally makes sense. What's an extra 2k when you are spending 698k?

But some people are like that and I call it "personal principle".

I had this friend who is a fuerdai and was looking at a place in West side back in 2009... the asking was 1.58M I believe... he offered 1.5M, and the seller countered with 1.55M. My friend didn't budge and said no. The agent, wanting to get the sales done as he was representing both side worked a deal with the seller regarding his commission to bring the offer down to 1.52M... but no... my friend simply walked away and bought another place for 1.8M.

I asked him why not take the other place for 1.52M? (I thought it had better layout and located on a quieter street albeit a bit smaller) and he said it's a matter of principle. And yes, he agreed the other place was a better buy.

Your friend has some shitty ass principles.

In fact, holding out like that can't even be defined as a "principle". Its just a stupid person making stupid decisions with the illusion that he's a grown up and with distinctive substance.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by lowside67

So let me get this straight... you were "going to only offer them" $650k but then somehow offered them $698k.

My point was simply that there are only two possibilities...
1) You had no business making a $698k offer because you didn't want it
or
2) You should have paid $700k.

You have just clarified that it's Option 1, that's cool. Glad they didn't take your offer because it sounds like you just about made a huge mistake...

You can fail me until you are blue in the face, those are simple facts. I also made an offer on a place and the owners also came back with $2.5k over my asking price... I paid it because we actually wanted the place. And it was $422k so there is really no reason to get all snippy about "$2k not being a lot of money" or something about my income.

Mark

Your other post came off as pretentious and douchy questioning whether we acted on ego and walking away due to "FACE".
That is what the fail is for.

As for your point, well it's a free market. You can chose to pay the extra $2.5K, or if the realtor was smart, cut $2.5K from their commission and everyone walks away happy, or just walk away.

You also missed a point, and that is the art of negotiations.
House was asking $670K. Supposedly only one offer that couldn't get financing. All that I cared was the house was still for sale and I can offer whatever we like. Whether the owner bites is up to them.
But straight up telling us they are only willing to sell for $700K and no less, well good luck for them. We felt the place was only worth $650K.
Oh yeah, and there wasn't any bidding war on the house so in our opinion, there really was no need to pay above asking.

And this all goes back to all the listings that Little Dragon posted.
You can call them stale for being on the market for > 30 days but until you have put an offer down on them, you really don't know if the owner(s) are desperate to sell or just waiting to get a payday.

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by Hehe

I get your point and I think it totally makes sense. What's an extra 2k when you are spending 698k?

But some people are like that and I call it "personal principle".

I had this friend who is a fuerdai and was looking at a place in West side back in 2009... the asking was 1.58M I believe... he offered 1.5M, and the seller countered with 1.55M. My friend didn't budge and said no. The agent, wanting to get the sales done as he was representing both side worked a deal with the seller regarding his commission to bring the offer down to 1.52M... but no... my friend simply walked away and bought another place for 1.8M.

I asked him why not take the other place for 1.52M? (I thought it had better layout and located on a quieter street albeit a bit smaller) and he said it's a matter of principle. And yes, he agreed the other place was a better buy.

thats not principle that's 'face' his ego was bruised, when the owner said no, and then he was just being petty when he refused the final discounted offer from the seller/agent

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

Your other post came off as pretentious and douchy questioning whether we acted on ego and walking away due to "FACE".
That is what the fail is for.

As for your point, well it's a free market. You can chose to pay the extra $2.5K, or if the realtor was smart, cut $2.5K from their commission and everyone walks away happy, or just walk away.

You also missed a point, and that is the art of negotiations.
House was asking $670K. Supposedly only one offer that couldn't get financing. All that I cared was the house was still for sale and I can offer whatever we like. Whether the owner bites is up to them.
But straight up telling us they are only willing to sell for $700K and no less, well good luck for them. We felt the place was only worth $650K.
Oh yeah, and there wasn't any bidding war on the house so in our opinion, there really was no need to pay above asking.

And this all goes back to all the listings that Little Dragon posted.
You can call them stale for being on the market for > 30 days but until you have put an offer down on them, you really don't know if the owner(s) are desperate to sell or just waiting to get a payday.

I don't get it - you have stated multiple times that you felt the place was only worth $650k. Then why did you offer $698k?

[und3f3at3d]

As many people said, look around and wait for the right one to come up, definitely do not rush and dont buy for the sake of "owning" a place. I feel bad for the people that are grossly overpaying 450-500k for a 2 BR with 800sq ft.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Gumby

I don't get it - you have stated multiple times that you felt the place was only worth $650k. Then why did you offer $698k?

The only thing I can think of is he/realtor made a verbal offer of 698 to test the waters, which was verbally rejected. Because if it was a formal offer on paper and was accepted, he just paid 48k more than what they were wanting/ready to pay

[Alpine]

Originally Posted by und3f3at3d

As many people said, look around and wait for the right one to come up, definitely do not rush and dont buy for the sake of "owning" a place. I feel bad for the people that are grossly overpaying 450-500k for a 2 BR with 800sq ft.

I bought a 1bed and den 650sqft for 450k last year Depending on what you are buying, ie. A detached house in a great location, you will need to rush and not overpay, but pay what the market will bear. The catch is what the market will bear is overpayment in most of our eyes.

[hi-revs]

Bought a detached house in Coquitlam about 2yrs ago. Easily went up $200k today as there are homes in the neighborhood selling for $1.2+

Fuck Vancouver, Richmond, Burnaby. If you still want to own a nice detached home, buy in the "outskirts". Build some equity, then can always buy again in vancouver.

The drive isnt all that bad at all. Took some adjusting. But i wouldnt look back wishing i had spent $600k on a condo in Vancouver and pocket a few hundred grand.

Its always a good time to buy if u ask me because ill be 5-10yrs into my mortgage when this other guy has been waiting 5-10yrs hoping that real estate to drop/crash. At the end of the day, this other guy may or may not own a property. Maybe living at home. Maybe paying someone elses mortgage. Maybe it drops 10-20%. If youre wishing for a 35% decrease in pricing, you gotta relook a few things in life.

Besides, im not one to buy a POS/teardown house now for $1mill and drop atleast another $50-$100k into it to making it look renewed/modern.