Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by Adorkami

Maybe a banker can answer this for me. Is there anyway to take in to account future income when applying for a mortgage? I currently live in an apartment and if I'm able to keep it the rent would create a slight profit (people beside me pay 500/month above my mortgage/strata). Other than being approved for a mortgage I don't see the gain on selling my apartment if I still have enough cash to put a down payment on a house

Disclaimer, I'm a commercial banker, not a personal lender, so my information is only second-hand.

With that said, until you get to private banking or possibly a handful of specialty lenders, it is unlikely that you are going to be able to qualify using the income from your rental property. In fact, under traditional rules, it's the OPPOSITE - you need to qualify BOTH mortgages TOGETHER under your 40% TDS cap - very difficult to do. CHMC also will not insure a rental property so you have to have the minimum down payment, etc.

Buying your first and second rental property are the hardest to qualify for. Once you get to 4 (typically), the bank will look at as a business even though it's held personally, and that will make it much easier because the rental income can be offset against the mortgage and incidental costs.

Hope that helps,
Mark

[4444]

^don't they now allow you to include rental income in your earned income calculation for purposes of mortgages?

i think that is a relatively recent thing.

anything to keep this gas bag afloat!

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by 4444

^don't they now allow you to include rental income in your earned income calculation for purposes of mortgages?

i think that is a relatively recent thing.

anything to keep this gas bag afloat!

Yes, you are correct.
New CMHC rules make it easier for some homebuyers to include rental income in mortgage application - British Columbia - CBC News

[Adorkami]

thanks guys.

[EvoFire]

Does anyone think the new federal Liberal government would make a difference to the real estate situation in the short and long terms?

[StylinRed]

Nope

[sonick]

Decent article: The Liberal Effect | Mortgage Rates & Mortgage Broker News in Canada

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by 4444

^don't they now allow you to include rental income in your earned income calculation for purposes of mortgages?

i think that is a relatively recent thing.

anything to keep this gas bag afloat!

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

Yes, you are correct.
New CMHC rules make it easier for some homebuyers to include rental income in mortgage application - British Columbia - CBC News

I am not sure that will cover the situation the guy was asking for - specifically, I read this:

CMHC will consider up to 100 per cent of gross rental income from a two-unit owner-occupied property that is the subject of a loan application submitted for insurance," the new rules state.

It seems to only supports two occupants in the same space - literally only a duplex or a house with a legal rental suite.

Mark

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

Does anyone think the new federal Liberal government would make a difference to the real estate situation in the short and long terms?

If the Liberal infrastructure and tax cuts stimulate the economy (big IF), then the central bank would have no choice but to raise interest rates.

[4444]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

If the Liberal infrastructure and tax cuts stimulate the economy (big IF), then the central bank would have no choice but to raise interest rates.

as you say, so many ifs.

in general, without looking at anything specific, i would imagine the liberals will hurt the economy, decrease take home pay for the average person, but will increase immigration / turn more of a blind eye to corruption.

but again, maybe i'm being cynical.

[StylinRed]

more of a blind eye than the Cons have?

[4444]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

more of a blind eye than the Cons have?

they're all as bad as each other, and given there may be some severe negative economic headwinds, both from a macro standpoint but also as a result of certain policies that will be put in place, they may have no choice but to turn a greater blind eye.

canada's politicians are ruining what was a great country. i have no confidence that smooth talking justin is anything more than a smooth talker / pretty face for the cameras. i fear canada will be a worse place in 4 years than it is today, and it is a much worse place today than it was 9 years ago (thanks Harper!).

do we have any up and coming political leaders in canada? i look to the conservatives in the UK, and excluding boris, there are some great candidates to take over from cameron when he steps down.

what this means for housing? well, depends if you believe it is local demand based on cheap debt or HAM that drives the market. if it's the former, interest rates will go up as justin issues billions more of government debt (decreasing canada's credit strength, i.e. requiring higher rates on gov. debt as investors become less sure of canada's economic strength and ability to repay) resulting in the end of cheap debt and potentially job losses in the private sector, if it's the latter, then the sky's the limit and we should all buy, buy, buy, and learn mandarin!

[StylinRed]

I doubt Trudeau is anything more than a face for the party too (that's why i didn't vote for him) but my hopes are that the real brains will try to patch things up while propping up our social services aspects, doubtful, but hopefully they'll be able to get things sorted at least

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by lowside67

I am not sure that will cover the situation the guy was asking for - specifically, I read this:

It seems to only supports two occupants in the same space - literally only a duplex or a house with a legal rental suite.

Mark

From CHMC's web page

Treatment of Rental Income for Borrower Qualification Purposes — Homeowner (1 – 4 Units)

Secondary rental suites are recognized as a source of affordable housing offered at a cost that is often lower than those for apartments in purpose built rental buildings.

Effective September 28, 2015:

CMHC will consider up to 100% of gross rental income from a 2-unit owner-occupied property that is the subject of a loan application submitted for insurance. The annual principal and interest for the property including the secondary suite must be used when calculating the debt service ratios.
For 3 – 4 unit owner-occupied and 1 – 4 unit non-owner occupied properties the net rental income (gross rents less operating expenses) can form part of the borrowers’ gross annual income.

I read this as being his case.

EDIT***

I went though a bunch of pages and the wording is very vague but from what I gather, he may be better off selling his apartment, depending on how much down he has for the house.
He will be better off going to a bank and talking to a mortgage specialist.
I read a blip where it says this only applies if the buyer has less than 25% down payment, but then is subject to CMHC mortgage insurance which defeats the purpose of having the rental income to increase the amount that the buyer can borrow.

[The_AK]

I'm not sure if anyone can shed some light on this, but I'm starting to look for my first apartment and noticed some properties in Downtown New West that seem quite decently priced relative to what you would get in Downtown. Is there anything to be aware of or cautious of regarding New West?

[iEatClams]

Originally Posted by The_AK

I'm not sure if anyone can shed some light on this, but I'm starting to look for my first apartment and noticed some properties in Downtown New West that seem quite decently priced relative to what you would get in Downtown. Is there anything to be aware of or cautious of regarding New West?

it's new west.

jokes aside, new west has relatively high property taxes compared to other municipalities. Their tax rate is high cause their tax base is relatively small. Also there's a lot of noise pollution that people dont consider. Many people buy and move next to the river or the train tracks and then complain about the noise. Like FUCK OFF the river and trains were there Way before, you didn't think trains would make noises and rivers might stink during certain times of the year?

Also new west has a lot of low income areas.

[melloman]

Yes there is train noise, yet policies have been implemented that trains cannot sound their horns between 10pm-7am. Other then that it honestly depends where in New West you are particularly looking.

The low-income areas will always be around yet Columbia is being redeveloped and revitalised. It is pushing the problematic people out from New West and Columbia skytrain areas further East towards Sapperton and across the river.

There will always be downsides like "all the hills" or "the noise from trains, skytrain, barges and container/tanker ships" yet you get the same shit in the Vancouver downtown core with traffic noise 24/7.

[HKSR]

Well, I'll add some value to this thread shortly. My condo is gonna be listed tomorrow on MLS. I'll update when it sells.

[jcmaz]

Debatable policies about the train noise. I still hear them every so often at 2-3am (yes I am a night owl). The train noise is most prevalent along Columbia Street and the Waterfront/Quay Area. I would also note down skytrain noise as well. I can't comment about the ships along the Fraser River because I don't live on the Quay, but I can't hear them by the New West station.

If you live by the bus terminals (New West/22nd Street), be prepared to be bothered by the night buses. Those things are pretty loud at night.

Areas around the station isn't THAT sketchy. It's well lit at night and cops do maintain a presence there.

Originally Posted by melloman

Yes there is train noise, yet policies have been implemented that trains cannot sound their horns between 10pm-7am. Other then that it honestly depends where in New West you are particularly looking.

The low-income areas will always be around yet Columbia is being redeveloped and revitalised. It is pushing the problematic people out from New West and Columbia skytrain areas further East towards Sapperton and across the river.

There will always be downsides like "all the hills" or "the noise from trains, skytrain, barges and container/tanker ships" yet you get the same shit in the Vancouver downtown core with traffic noise 24/7.

[Adorkami]

Sounds like I'm going to be a home owner, sellers accepted my offer now I just need to do an inspection. I ended up going with a house that has been on the market for a while and needs a bit of work but it's in north burnaby. Was able to lower the price by 118,000 so I'm pretty happy

[jasonturbo]

Originally Posted by 4444

if it's the former, interest rates will go up as justin issues billions more of government debt (decreasing canada's credit strength, i.e. requiring higher rates on gov. debt as investors become less sure of canada's economic strength and ability to repay) resulting in the end of cheap debt and potentially job losses in the private sector, if it's the latter, then the sky's the limit and we should all buy, buy, buy, and learn mandarin!

Well more and more I'm thinking we will see a lengthy period of low interest rates, I think low rates will become the new "standard rate".

Financially the world is in a strange position, bonds yields are still exceptionally low across the G7 countries - meanwhile equity markets are at all time highs. What happens if/when the stock market has another major mishap? With investors fleeing equities for the security of bonds once again, where can we expect bond yields to go? Down obviously, though I'm not discounting the obvious size difference between equity and bond markets.

Canada is well positioned to maintain low interest rates for an extended period of time given our debt to GDP, bureaucrats could muck things up for another decade before we start to see it impact our bond yields. Barring a situation where the global economy takes off and Canada gets left behind.. but that seems unlikely given the slow down being seen in the emerging markets which have been the major driver of the global economy over the last 30+ years.

I dunno, it's a matter of opinion I suppose, but I wouldn't be nearly as hesitant signing up for a 5 year mortgage today than I would have been in 2010. I expect rates to stay low for a very very long time. (If we surpass a 2% overnight lending rate from the BOC by 2020 I'll be shocked.)

Shit's cray.

[The Hype]

Originally Posted by jcmaz

Debatable policies about the train noise. I still hear them every so often at 2-3am (yes I am a night owl). The train noise is most prevalent along Columbia Street and the Waterfront/Quay Area. I would also note down skytrain noise as well. I can't comment about the ships along the Fraser River because I don't live on the Quay, but I can't hear them by the New West station.

If you live by the bus terminals (New West/22nd Street), be prepared to be bothered by the night buses. Those things are pretty loud at night.

Areas around the station isn't THAT sketchy. It's well lit at night and cops do maintain a presence there.

Debatable is right! I live on the west side of the Quay in the lofts, and yeah some of those train conductors are jerks. So there is definitely noise not only from the guys tooting their horns, but when the trains are shunted together. Luckily for me I face the water so the north side of the building soaks up most of the noise. It's really not that bad to be honest. As for ships along the river, I don't really notice anything except the occasional "chug chug chug" when I leave my windows open. I can't speak for other areas but the Quay is pretty quiet at night and not at all sketchy.

[Mr.C]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

history would say it's safer to assume growth rather than decline imo.

Especially if you're buying relatively desirable places in Burnaby/Vancouver, imo the market is there for you to make money on a home regardless of the situation. a "correction" isnt going to mean that all of a sudden these incredibly sought after homes all of a sudden become unsellable. People will -always- want to live in these areas, and pay a premium for them

The average home price in Vancouver stayed stable for 20 years. It has quadrupled in the last 15. Are you willing to bet your financial future that it will double again? I sure as hell am not.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Mr.C

The average home price in Vancouver stayed stable for 20 years. It has quadrupled in the last 15. Are you willing to bet your financial future that it will double again? I sure as hell am not.

I would argue that at worst, the right type of real estate in Vancouver is equivalent to bonds.

Don't you hold bonds in your portfolio?

[4444]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

I would argue that at worst, the right type of real estate in Vancouver is equivalent to bonds.

Don't you hold bonds in your portfolio?

a bond etf can be bought with <$100.

a house in vancouver >$1M

that, and that alone, is why home ownership as part of a portfolio is a flawed argument, unless you're rich as fuck