Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[will068]

Originally Posted by GS8

The things we do to attain the 'dream'

Pay off your mortgage, live debt free: how one guy did it in 3 years - Business - CBC News

I assume the average Vancouver mortgage would be much higher than what this guy had.

Nonetheless, bravo to this guy though I'm not sure I could do it. My perspective on life differs.

You know the saying: "you can't knock the hustle".

Hats off to the guy.

[4444]

Originally Posted by nah

What a shitty way to live for a good portion of the prime (age 25 - 45) of your life. Life is short, enjoy it and what the world has to offer.

in the end of the day, different people get value and enjoyment from different things.

for me, not owning gives me joy - the idea of debt on an asset that doesn't self cash flow freaks me out (i own real estate without debt, and did own real estate with debt, but the debt coverage was ridiculously high, so no freak out).

others, as this thread has shown, take so much value from owning their home - i can no longer disagree with them as they get value from that, it's their money, their decision, their enjoyment.

this guy, if he gets ultimate joy from financial freedom, and he can achieve that through paying off the mortgage in three years, good for him - i'm sure he's happier in life than 99% of people who like to show their great life on facebook and instagram, but in reality dread the day to day grind (maybe that's what makes them happy, though, trying to social-media one up everyone else).

life is for the living, however gives you maximum enjoyment and pleasure

[Tapioca]

Remember this: once you decide/are obligated to start a long-term relationship with someone (whether it be marriage, common law, or some other form), everything changes. And if you ever decide/happen to bring a child or two into the mix, your life and financial decisions change again.

There are people in this thread who have vowed never to have children. I thought the same myself at one point too, but some people change and so does your perspective on finances, wealth, and your legacy.

[4444]

food for thought...

another property of my parents is being sold, just hit the market for >>$1M in a 'burb of vancouver (no CMHC insurance - and for the record, i'd never pay this much for this property, nor would my parents - more food for thought, about 10 years ago this house was bought for <$1/2M and you couldn't sell it if you tried, now, it'll sell in days in a fog of hysteria - we will return to a time when houses won't sell, but that's a big aside), open house this weekend, loads of people came (i received a comment from a family member of 'a few mainland chinese' which i think is unfair as they may or may not be canadian residents / citizens), will get offers probably today.

For local buyers (who appeared to make up the majority of open house attendees, though appreciating that some will just be nosey neighbours) what is the incentive to be buying these properties at these valuations? I appreciate many who have owned for years will have equity, so the jump up is perhaps not as bad as it seems, though the better time to move up is when supply is high, demand low (that is, you may sell your lower value house for not a great price, but you buy a much more valuable house at a 'not great price'). maybe it is that people that bought >10, 15 years ago have low cost bases and the move up to a new cost base is still reasonable? They rode the wave and won.

looking at the local market, there is literally next to no inventory - why? why are people not listing? are they afraid of moving as they're priced out of the move up? i find this aspect very interesting.

i just find it absolutely amazing how much money my parents will realize from these sales - they baby boomed this one perfectly - our parents will be the beneficiary of this crazy time (is true for a lot of the world), our generations will suffer the consequences.

though i must reiterate my previous points, there is so much more to life than houses and money, part of why my family are liquidating many houses (also, amazing time to do so, in our opinion).

will report, for interest's sake, the end result of the sale - how much over asking / valuation and to whom (assuming i get this info).

[Z3guy]

Originally Posted by GS8

The things we do to attain the 'dream'

Pay off your mortgage, live debt free: how one guy did it in 3 years - Business - CBC News

I assume the average Vancouver mortgage would be much higher than what this guy had.

Nonetheless, bravo to this guy though I'm not sure I could do it. My perspective on life differs.

props to this guy for following through on his plan. Definitely takes allot of commitment and sacrifice. However, wtf was he thinking living frugally during some of the best years of his life? I don't care how much further he is financially, you basically gave up some prime "fun" years of your life so you can be mortgage free? I would rather focus on making more money and living life to the fullest than to work like a dog and live like a hermit. Different strokes for different folks I guess....

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by 4444

food for thought...

another property of my parents is being sold, just hit the market for >>$1M in a 'burb of vancouver (no CMHC insurance - and for the record, i'd never pay this much for this property, nor would my parents - more food for thought, about 10 years ago this house was bought for <$1/2M and you couldn't sell it if you tried, now, it'll sell in days in a fog of hysteria - we will return to a time when houses won't sell, but that's a big aside), open house this weekend, loads of people came (i received a comment from a family member of 'a few mainland chinese' which i think is unfair as they may or may not be canadian residents / citizens), will get offers probably today.

For local buyers (who appeared to make up the majority of open house attendees, though appreciating that some will just be nosey neighbours) what is the incentive to be buying these properties at these valuations? I appreciate many who have owned for years will have equity, so the jump up is perhaps not as bad as it seems, though the better time to move up is when supply is high, demand low (that is, you may sell your lower value house for not a great price, but you buy a much more valuable house at a 'not great price'). maybe it is that people that bought >10, 15 years ago have low cost bases and the move up to a new cost base is still reasonable? They rode the wave and won.

looking at the local market, there is literally next to no inventory - why? why are people not listing? are they afraid of moving as they're priced out of the move up? i find this aspect very interesting.

i just find it absolutely amazing how much money my parents will realize from these sales - they baby boomed this one perfectly - our parents will be the beneficiary of this crazy time (is true for a lot of the world), our generations will suffer the consequences.

though i must reiterate my previous points, there is so much more to life than houses and money, part of why my family are liquidating many houses (also, amazing time to do so, in our opinion).

will report, for interest's sake, the end result of the sale - how much over asking / valuation and to whom (assuming i get this info).

With the way things are going, why list when you can wait another year and hope for another 100k, it's greed to a degree, but also if you're comfortable, why list?

Drove around oak street the other day and it's amazing the amount of property bought up and torn down to build the disgusting wood fram low rises.

However, at the same time there are still soooo many Vancouver specials/mcmansions/fucking dumps in the area that it really got me thinking, a lot of what causes the overvaluation and extreme over payment of property is exactly what you're talking about, the bottle neck of supply.

Besides the foreign money coming in and buying up stock like no tomorrow, I believe that what is also driving up costs are all the people who live in these areas and have some quite some time, who are either: Broke, elderly, inherited the home, or purchased within the last 10 years. People who have grown accustomed to their lifestyle and the area in which they live in. Some older couple in their late 50's/60's and even older are comfortable enough in the area that they would rather be broke or on the border line, than sell out for 1.4 and move to a townhouse in Langley.

One big factor which actually may cause a "correction" in the future, if the numbers the government is providing in terms of the aging population are true is the eventual mass exodus of the people who really do "need" the money to continue living.

Even then though, who knows if the buying power will still be able to outpace the supply, that will always be a possibility.

Sorry for the run on babbling, but driving around south/west van definately stirs up some thoughts in me

[4444]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

With the way things are going, why list when you can wait another year and hope for another 100k, it's greed to a degree, but also if you're comfortable, why list?

as much as you could expect 100K more, we could easily lose 100K. given the absolute craziness of the money made, there's definite value in liquidating today - the listing at this time was always the plan, thankfully a speculative 100K is not needed for my parents' retirement.

given the 100K more is pure speculation, it's never a wise idea to make decisions based on speculation, which leads to an important lesson in investing and asset management - have a plan, continually assess that plan on fundamentals (and other factors), and stick to the plan!

i wonder how many boomers are now off course of their retirement plans bc of the housing situation, for good or bad?

[Hondaracer]

Parents of a good friend of mine made a choice to sell their house in Fraser Heights based on their own kind of hair-brained "speculation" that the market was going to "crash" about 4 years ago now.

Without a doubt that was the worst financial move of their entire lives. I don't even have to know their investment history etc. the house they sold for 600/625 is now worth over 800. And now they are renting paying probably as much as their mortgage was building 0 equity

Goes both ways really and now they are completely priced out of the market and lost a huge chunk of change for their retirement.

[4444]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Parents of a good friend of mine made a choice to sell their house in Fraser Heights based on their own kind of hair-brained "speculation" that the market was going to "crash" about 4 years ago now.

Without a doubt that was the worst financial move of their entire lives. I don't even have to know their investment history etc. the house they sold for 600/625 is now worth over 800. And now they are renting paying probably as much as their mortgage was building 0 equity

Goes both ways really and now they are completely priced out of the market and lost a huge chunk of change for their retirement.

please don't make brash comments like 'worst financial decision ever' or 'building 0 equity' - they may be better off on a cash flow basis, they may have wanted greater flexibilty, they are probably making return on invested funds, if they put it in the S&P500, they would have had approx 70% return (taxable vs. non-taxable residence gain) over that 4 year period (if they put the money in GIC's, then yes, they are idiots) - everything is not black and white. To be honest, in that 4 year period, i think selling may have been a financially superior idea (but i would think that)

for my specific case, my parents owned 9 properties until recently (5 of which were not in canada), they will now be at 4 after this one sells - they're exposed plenty to continued growth in the market, but can also withstand any downturn as they are fully diversified.

selling your one family home vs. one of many is a completely different proposition - it's like a stock, you can't time it, so follow the plan (just hope the plan is really good, sounds like ur friend's parents may have had a shit plan to start with if it truly was a bad financial decision).

[Hondaracer]

Oh I don't doubt their existing plan was bad from the start.

However, to assume that anything but a small minority would have produced a better return than 200k over a 4 year span by essentially sitting on an asset is pretty optimistic IMO.

For the VAST majority of people in the lower mainland who purchased a home or homes 10+ years ago, those are probably the best financial moves they ever made as they currently stand.

[4444]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Oh I don't doubt their existing plan was bad from the start.

However, to assume that anything but a small minority would have produced a better return than 200k over a 4 year span by essentially sitting on an asset is pretty optimistic IMO.

For the VAST majority of people in the lower mainland who purchased a home or homes 10+ years ago, those are probably the best financial moves they ever made as they currently stand.

problem is, they weren't financially driven moves. the average person in vancouver bought because it's what westerners do, it's what we're programmed to do (go to university, get married, buy a house, have kids, hate life working 9-5, retire, die).

just because they have been lucky doesn't mean they will continue to be.

the true winners here are people that sell and move away, people that can materially downsize, or people that own multiple properties (i.e. people that can sell a place and actually realize the gain) - everyone else is just sitting on paper profits, though i guess they can take out lines of credits... but i seem to recall a certain country 10x bigger than canada (population) doing something similar in 2005, i wonder how confident those people are today with that plan.

[Z3guy]

^ jesus Christ can you stop preaching from your soapbox!!!! aren't you bored of saying the same thing over and over?

[Carl Johnson]

Originally Posted by 4444

please don't make brash comments like 'worst financial decision ever' or 'building 0 equity' - they may be better off on a cash flow basis, they may have wanted greater flexibilty, they are probably making return on invested funds, if they put it in the S&P500, they would have had approx 70% return (taxable vs. non-taxable residence gain) over that 4 year period (if they put the money in GIC's, then yes, they are idiots) - everything is not black and white. To be honest, in that 4 year period, i think selling may have been a financially superior idea (but i would think that)

for my specific case, my parents owned 9 properties until recently (5 of which were not in canada), they will now be at 4 after this one sells - they're exposed plenty to continued growth in the market, but can also withstand any downturn as they are fully diversified.

selling your one family home vs. one of many is a completely different proposition - it's like a stock, you can't time it, so follow the plan (just hope the plan is really good, sounds like ur friend's parents may have had a shit plan to start with if it truly was a bad financial decision).

so your parents and you are landlords collecting rent every month. isn't it ironic you are here preaching everyone else to sell and be a renter? all your posts gravitate towards the same old stuff you've regurgitated for the last 4 years.

you say you can accept the fact people take comfort in owning their home, yet you come back every 2 days with the same old preaching about renting and living a "flexible" life. meanwhile you can't accept the fact that renting is only good only for short term and long term wise it is much better to own and built equity.

most people haven't got a clue about stock market and there are way too many frauds in the stock market than owning a home where at least you got a roof over your head.

[Tapioca]

Liquidity and flexibility mean nothing if you get diagnosed with a life threatening disease, such as cancer. Cancer doesn't discriminate. It was pretty helpful having family close by and security of tenure through home ownership when it happened in our family (twice in 3 years).

But I digress...

Anyway, one thing to mention about the boomers is that a lot of them worked in jobs that offered defined benefit pension plans. Cash flow isn't too much of a problem for many, so that may be having an impact on the lack of detached housing stock.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Carl Johnson

most people haven't got a clue about stock market and there are way too many frauds in the stock market than owning a home where at least you got a roof over your head.

Renting works if you're able to find value and if you're disciplined. Unfortunately, most people are not. Even if they are, the difference is siphoned away in management fees and the psychology of trying to "time the market". How many people "out there" invest in index funds and can understand true value in companies? Not many, I'm afraid.

Even if you're someone with multiple passports and stay true to your approach, eventually someone comes along and you want to stay with them for a while. And while you may have been citizens of the world, eventually the human instinct to set down roots takes over. What then? Well, I guess if companions are like other assets, you buy and sell when their return of investment is greatest.

[4444]

Originally Posted by Carl Johnson

so your parents and you are landlords collecting rent every month. isn't it ironic you are here preaching everyone else to sell and be a renter? all your posts gravitate towards the same old stuff you've regurgitated for the last 4 years.
.

not ironic at all, bought when yields made economic sense. buying today in vancouver is lunacy.

i preach fundamentals. i don't preach not owning a property.

[4444]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

Liquidity and flexibility mean nothing if you get diagnosed with a life threatening disease, such as cancer. Cancer doesn't discriminate. It was pretty helpful having family close by and security of tenure through home ownership when it happened in our family (twice in 3 years).
.

you have no idea how close to home what you say is. home ownership has nothing to do with dying from cancer (i am speaking from knowledge).

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by 4444

you have no idea how close to home what you say is. home ownership has nothing to do with dying from cancer (i am speaking from knowledge).

So am I. What's your point, then?

[melloman]

Originally Posted by 4444

not ironic at all, bought when yields made economic sense. buying today in vancouver is lunacy.

i preach fundamentals. i don't preach not owning a property.

Bolded the key statement. Buying in Vancouver is crazy, yet buying in the GVRD is not. Personally I just bought an apartment in downtown New West.

You might think that paying roughly $325k for 730sq.ft. is lunacy. Yet when you look at the projected growth figures, the cities redevelopment plans, and the permits for new construction, you might change your tune.

I love the term flexibility that gets brought up, why is owning a home not flexible? Just for the sake I can not move around, or because I have set monthly payments and a large sum of debt?

Can someone enlighten me?

[sdubfid]

If you need a place to live then you need a place to live. But 325000 for a box in the sky is lunacy to me. Dealing with strata, a few feet from your neighbors who may smell like the food court at the mall. Not to mention it is not working for you, you are working for it and the bank, with no option to rent it out because then you'd be sleeping on the streets.

Sticking near to gvrd area I have seen fourplexes in the Fraser valley on 1/4 acre for ~400000. You could live in one unit, work on your car without getting fined, raise goats and rent out the other 3 units and essentially live for free and make debt your employee.

For example a house in Coquitlam mid 1980s for 160000 would sell today for 1.1million. Two extremes of interest rates and what does that come out to? 6-7%? return on investment annually? Not including any costs. Not super exciting. But if you compare 2005-2012 then return is much higher.

Nobody can predict the future. Maybe Apple and Google will move their offices to new west.

[Harvey Specter]

Sad part is you can't even buy a studio for $325k in downtown. Right now you're looking at $415k+ for a 1 bedroom, with multiple and cash offers you're looking to add another $25k+ on that price. And most of the buildings you do find a unit in this range will be filled with rental units so not the best buildings to live in if you're actually going to make it a home.

[Tapioca]

Considering that the cost to rent the same 1-bedroom unit in New West is roughly 1500/month, it can make sense to buy if you have a sufficient down payment and will hold for 5+years. Value is tough to find in the rental market these days, unless you shack up with roommates, live in an illegal suite, or are willing to accept less-than-ideal accommodation (like a basement with mold). Sure, it's fun living with roommates in your 20s, but when you're in your 30s? Not so much.

There is appeal in buying in the Fraser Valley if you run a home-based business or have business out there. But if you work in Metro Vancouver, a home in New West can make a lot of sense because it's central and well-connected by transit.

[pastarocket]

What a fast presale this was for condos in Squamish:

Sixty-five condos sold in 90 minutes at presale in Squamish - NEWS 1130

It’s the latest indicator of just how much demand there is for condos in our region.

A presale for a new development coming to Squamish sold all 65 of its units in an hour and a half this weekend.

Developer Michael Henson with ParkHouse Squamish Ltd. says it points to the district’s growing appeal.

“Very recently, Squamish went through a big rebranding process and rebranded themselves as being hardwired for adventure,” says Henson. “I think it’s very much about a healthy, outdoor lifestyle.”

The majority of the units actually sold to locals; the developers point out the drive into Vancouver from Squamish is shorter than it is from many of the city’s suburbs.

“We really did something that was upper scale and was on par with anything you’d find in Vancouver,” says Mario Gomes, also with Parkhouse. “Every unit has a fairly large balcony. Almost every unit has a large storage room or den which could be used as a wet room as well, where people come in with their gear.”

Price was also clearly a factor: 60 per cent of the units were priced at under $300,000

[GS8]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

There is appeal in buying in the Fraser Valley if you run a home-based business or have business out there. But if you work in Metro Vancouver, a home in New West can make a lot of sense because it's central and well-connected by transit.

And that is why traffic is supremely shitty through all the major corridors. People priced out of Vancouver and, therefore, move beyond the Bridges because it's way cheaper.

If pricing was the similar across the whole region, I'm sure a lot of those commuters would opt to stay west of the Bridges. Nobody wants to spend 3 hour round trips in traffic a day but if it means buying a larger property at a lower cost compared to Vancouver, then there you go.

The Trishities are bulking up with populace and it's showing. I predict Burnaby-Kingsway-Metrotown like traffic conditions once the Evergreen trains start rolling.

My brother lives in Chilliwack and was telling me what you can buy for $500k. I was fucking salivating lol but he and family all work out there so it works beautifully for them.

[MASTER_J]

So what do you do when I just got married and we want to buy a house in North Bby or East Van, but all decent homes that are aged 25-50 years old are being snagged instantly 100-150k over asking with no subjects instantly after the weekend of open houses? I mean these old 30+ yr old bungalows around rupert/renfrew east van area, that require a pretty big reno job are being listed for 1 million are going for 1.1. Do i just bite the bullet and pay a premium for something that old? 1980s van spec homes are 1.2-1.35 which is rediculous. Bottom line is, do i have to offer 150k over list price with no subjects for 25+ year home IF i want to own a house ......

Parents and inlaws live in North Bby, we plan to have kids so being close to family is essential. I mean we could buy a 3000 sq ft 5 year home in Langley for 800k but the commute and distance is unbearable, plus ive lived in Van/north bby al lmy life. And both my wife and I work in Van.

The idea just sucks paying 1.1 for an old 40+ bungalow rancher home..... i'm praying for some kind of price adjustment some how.. lol