Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[Gridlock]

I think as of right now, one thing that isn't readily apparent in the stats we commonly access is asking price/selling price ratio.

I think we're at the point where you can make an offer on a property, and unlike a few years ago, that offer better not be 20% ABOVE asking just to get their attention, its offering 10-20% BELOW asking, because its been sitting for awhile.

So even though you aren't seeing price reduced stickers in the front lawn, they are there.

My case study house finally sold. It was a full renovate up the street from me. Went from a crack shack to a nice house, "flipped" by the owner. Went from asking 900k when it was first complete, to sitting empty for a year(with healthy holding costs) to a reduced asking price of $739k. Who knows what the actual price ended up being.

I'd love nothing more than to be a house flipper, but with numbers like that, its not worth it in Van anymore.

[Hondaracer]

You have to choose the right properties to flip, many people are still making a tonne of money on reno's, you have to choose your property, be good at what you do, and have connections.

The margins though on building from the ground up and turning a profit are way bigger east of BC however
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[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Ride

Businesses can't afford to be in that area anymore and that's from the city raising property taxes, if the property taxes were reasonable then the rents would be reasonable to do business there. But it seems like it's happening in every area where the city know's there's a potential for development so the taxes start rising and owners are pushed to sell

Comparing what my friends pay in property taxes on their condos in Vancouver and what the rest of us pay in other muncipalities, the difference is striking. You sometimes hear business owners in Vancouver pipe up about how much property tax they have to pay. The share of property taxes between businesses and home owners definitely favours the home owners (ie. Lower taxes for home owners.)

It's no surprise that independent retailers and other interesting businesses are getting squeezed. People may cry about the loss of cultural landmarks (I like the Tiki Bar as much as the next person), but I bet most people would rather save on their property taxes and have condos come in as opposed to forking over more taxes so that niche businesses such as the Waldorf are more viable. And the starving artists who are crying foul? They're all renters anyway and probably don't vote in council elections, so the politicians could care less about them.
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[GLOW]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

many people are still making a tonne of money on reno's,

ya, the contractor

[Hondaracer]

Well yea, you better be a contractor if your Reno'ing to flip
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[4444]

Originally Posted by Iceman-19

Apparently blatent internet sarcasm easily escapes you.

Internet sarcasm doesn't work, not overly concerned that I don't grasp it when there r so many retards on this forum - wouldn't have surprised me if u'd meant it

[4444]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Well yea, you better be a contractor if your Reno'ing to flip
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So you contradicted yourself within 1 page - see what I mean about retards on the forum, case in point

[iEatClams]

I thought this was a very interesting post from Vancouver price drop :


It shows the current housing drop in Vancouver compared to other cities in North America:

http://vancouverpricedrop.wordpress....-january-2013/

Here is an updated chart showing the pace of the Lower Mainlands price drop from peak compared to other regions. In this chart I have combined the data from Vancouver West, Vancouver East, North Vancouver, West Vancouver, Richmond, Burnaby and New Westminster. This is a good representation of the metro Vancouver area and is a more accurate comparison. HPI data is being grabbed from MLS HPI

As you can see, after 8 months we are only above Miami. Our combined and averaged HPI drop from single family homes is now 7.57% with a drop of just 0.19% in January mainly due to 2.1% and 1.0% gains in West Vancouver and North Vancouver in January. The weakest area was Burnaby with an averaged 1.5% drop in the month. Typically HPI prices are stronger in the spring months so it will be interesting to see what develops.

[diesel_test]

Originally Posted by azndude69

I thought this was a very interesting post from Vancouver price drop :


It shows the current housing drop in Vancouver compared to other cities in North America:

Drop From Peak Chart – January 2013 « Vancouver Price Drop

if i can get a $2 million home for $1 million, that'd be great! im waiting 11 more months to see

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by diesel_test

if i can get a $2 million home for $1 million, that'd be great! im waiting 11 more months to see

Except that'll just mean you're buying a one million home for one million, and all your neighbors have two million dollar mortgages on one million homes.

[iEatClams]

Vancouver real-estate firm admits faking investor for TV news

The president of a prominent Vancouver real-estate company said he is deeply sorry that two of his company employees were falsely portrayed as Chinese condo buyers in an apparent marketing scheme.

The company involved, Mac Marketing Solutions, was forced to admit its error after a local blogger noticed something fishy in several recent TV news stories and alleged “media manipulation.”

The Mac Marketing Solutions employees — represented as young women from China — suggested to reporters that their parents were on the way to Vancouver to snap up a condo during Chinese New Year.

In a prepared statement, Ethan Faber, managing editor at CTV British Columbia News, said “we were certainly surprised to learn that two people our reporter approached who told us they were shopping for a condo, were in fact employees of the company. We are doing a followup story.”

A call to the CBC Vancouver newsroom — which also ran a story that turned out to include fake Chinese investors — was not returned.

In an interview Thursday, company president Cameron McNeill said: “I don’t know how the situation came about. I deeply regret the fact that two of Mac’s employees ended up being interviewed, and without us being forthright about their connection with Mac.”

McNeill was asked if the two employees were asked to play roles by bosses.

He said, “I did not ... it didn’t come from the top,” and “I don’t believe it happened on an order.”

McNeill said he was out of town when the interviews took place and he is trying to discover how the employees “ended up” in the situation.

“The fact of the matter is it was wrong,” he said. “I accept full responsibility.”

McNeill was asked if the apparent misrepresentation being alleged throughout Vancouver’s blogosphere — that the company seemed to be seeking to drum up condo sales using employees as Chinese investor actors — could constitute a fraud.

“I don’t believe that it was an absolute contrived situation, and I understand that some people would be angry about it,” he said.

Reporters often field real-estate story pitches and, in recent themes, marketers have focused on the voracious Chinese investor who comes to Vancouver on holiday during Chinese New Year ready to throw down cash.

On Thursday, the Mac Marketing Solutions Facebook page took quite a backlash against that narrative, seemingly from young Vancouverites who are fed up with exorbitant home prices.

Read more: Vancouver real-estate firm admits faking investor for TV news

[iEatClams]

this was the original news story that was false but was originally done to spur up condo demand:

Chinese visitors are arriving in B.C. just in time to ring in the Year of the Snake – and Vancouver condo developers are getting a boost because of it.
Many developers know that catering to offshore buyers during Chinese New Year is crucial for sales.
RELATED STORIES
Snakes, Sales & Celine Dion: it’s Lunar New Year in China
Year of the Snake Celebration at International Village
PHOTOS

Sisters Amanda (left) and Chris Lee (right) are scouting for condos before their parents visit from China to help them buy one. (CTV)
“We know that the sales activity in and around the Chinese New Year is really very good, so we decided to reopen after Christmas and stay open for about eight weeks,” said Madonna McLafferty, sales manager for Evergreen condos in Coquitlam.
McLafferty said Bosa, the condo developer, didn’t sell as many homes last year around this time, “but based on how we’re seeing things come together for this year I think we’ll see a better year for real estate sales.”
Chris Lee, who moved to Vancouver from China two years ago, said she and her sister are looking to buy a hip downtown condo, and now that their parents are in town for two weeks celebrating Chinese New Year, they have financial help.
“If we like this place we have to tell them and they make the decision,” Lee said. “Usually Chinese people like to buy during this time.”
Condo developers embraced the influx of offshore buyers, with some companies bringing in additional Chinese-speaking staff to help sell units.
“The sales team is well diversified,” said Nic Jenson, a condo marketer for Cressey Developments’ Maddox building.
“There's family and friends that come through, they show their moms, they show their brothers, their sisters, their friends, and now that the decision makers are in town we expect sales to start going through in the next couple of weeks,” Jenson said.
But potential Vancouver should put aside fears that affluent offshore buyers will snap up a large share of the condo market, driving up price, he said.
“Don’t kid yourself. These people do live here, they’ve got family here, they’ve got children here,” Jenson said. “Whether they choose to live here now or use it as a rental…it’s an extremely attractive investment for everyone.”

Year of the Snake nets condo sales: developers | CTV British Columbia News

[BurnoutBinLaden]

It is of my opinion that the real estate bubble has hampered the expansion of entertainment and cultural venues in town. Developers have made so much money from skyrocketing land prices that they are able to bankroll local elections. This way, they get their plans approved over, say, a new theatre or arena. Here's an article about it (it's a poorly written one but the underlying message is sound).

This bubble has long lasting and far reaching effects that people might not realize. One of the reasons that Vancouver is no fun city is that all the potential places to have fun have been occupied by condos. It really makes me question whether I want to keep living in this town, and I know that sounds petty but Vancouver is shooting itself in the foot with respect to becoming a world city.

[iEatClams]

Originally Posted by BurnoutBinLaden

It is of my opinion that the real estate bubble has hampered the expansion of entertainment and cultural venues in town. Developers have made so much money from skyrocketing land prices that they are able to bankroll local elections. This way, they get their plans approved over, say, a new theatre or arena. Here's an article about it (it's a poorly written one but the underlying message is sound).

This bubble has long lasting and far reaching effects that people might not realize. One of the reasons that Vancouver is no fun city is that all the potential places to have fun have been occupied by condos. It really makes me question whether I want to keep living in this town, and I know that sounds petty but Vancouver is shooting itself in the foot with respect to becoming a world city.

if you think that's bad, wait until you find out about the City selling the land to developers for dirt cheap! we could have funded the broadway subway, if Vancouver didnt sell prime real estate to developers for cheap.

Not to mention the olympic village fiasco that we are still on the hook for. we're probably lost $500 million from this deal alone.

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by BurnoutBinLaden

It is of my opinion that the real estate bubble has hampered the expansion of entertainment and cultural venues in town. Developers have made so much money from skyrocketing land prices that they are able to bankroll local elections. This way, they get their plans approved over, say, a new theatre or arena. Here's an article about it (it's a poorly written one but the underlying message is sound).

This bubble has long lasting and far reaching effects that people might not realize. One of the reasons that Vancouver is no fun city is that all the potential places to have fun have been occupied by condos. It really makes me question whether I want to keep living in this town, and I know that sounds petty but Vancouver is shooting itself in the foot with respect to becoming a world city.

That's a small piece of a larger picture.

Yes, clubs are destroyed to build condos. That affects a certain amount of people, and makes the city "less fun"

So many businesses are levelled because the primary purpose of the place is to make money. And, they sell out and make money on the land.

Then, you have a group of people that have less disposable income because of their housing that they can't support businesses.

And industry. They started buying the Hastings corridor in East Van. Well, that was primarily an industrial area. It still could be, but its cheaper to move to industrial parks and vacate that area. Meaning, your employees and customers need to commute in. So then you say we need more public transit to support these new areas, when in reality, you had it, but you leveled it to make more bedrooms.

Everyone talks about live-work neighborhoods, but no one is moving in that direction, unless people work small retail and starbucks.

There are a few key areas that could support a fantastic system of local made, real products in an area close to residential neighborhoods. Hastings is one. New West has another. The pressure for development is: condos. Great for the tax base, great for construction...but not really great for life.

[finbar]

^ so true.
My fave mechanic, Salvidge auto, ceased operations on 4th & Fir as his taxes went up 100% year over year. $40K before turning on the lights, that's alot of oil changes.
The condoleers are coming.

[Tapioca]

I think a lot of people, including many working for the typical media rags, are a bit behind the times when it comes to the economy and land use. There is a substantial number of entrepreneurs and start-ups who don't necessarily need a lot of space to run their businesses. Now, I don't roll in the start-up circle, but the number of them in the region is growing by the day to the point where you can't deny their existence and thus their potential impact on the economy.

There are definitely a lot of people living on credit in the city, but there also those who do well and shelter their income through their companies. I've done a bit of reading and this seems to be a explanation put out by some local economists. This may explain why average incomes are lower in Metro Vancouver in comparison to other major cities in Canada.
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[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

I think a lot of people, including many working for the typical media rags, are a bit behind the times when it comes to the economy and land use. There is a substantial number of entrepreneurs and start-ups who don't necessarily need a lot of space to run their businesses. Now, I don't roll in the start-up circle, but the number of them in the region is growing by the day to the point where you can't deny their existence and thus their potential impact on the economy.

There are definitely a lot of people living on credit in the city, but there also those who do well and shelter their income through their companies. I've done a bit of reading and this seems to be a explanation put out by some local economists. This may explain why average incomes are lower in Metro Vancouver in comparison to other major cities in Canada.
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If you do need space, you are screwed.

[BurnoutBinLaden]

Since the focus is on residential developments, office towers have been left behind. AAA office space in the downtown core is $40/sf, and many businesses have been squeezed out of the city, heading into the suburbs.

I wonder what Vancouver will look like in 15-20 years. Will people have learned from their mistakes, or will it be too late?

[iEatClams]

Originally Posted by finbar

^ so true.
My fave mechanic, Salvidge auto, ceased operations on 4th & Fir as his taxes went up 100% year over year. $40K before turning on the lights, that's alot of oil changes.
The condoleers are coming.

I dont feel bad for them at all. I know a friend who had a similar situation for that. Taxes are based on market value, and his property value probably went up over 100%.

One of my buddies basically got lucky, they owned a business. His taxes went up 100%. but a developer came in couple years later and asked to purchase his land for like 7 million dollars or something like that, he bought it for like $1.2 million or something. The property taxes are a small price to pay for the net worth of your property increasing. The guy basically won the lottery.

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by azndude69

I dont feel bad for them at all. I know a friend who had a similar situation for that. Taxes are based on market value, and his property value probably went up over 100%.

One of my buddies basically got lucky, they owned a business. His taxes went up 100%. but a developer came in couple years later and asked to purchase his land for like 7 million dollars or something like that, he bought it for like $1.2 million or something. The property taxes are a small price to pay for the net worth of your property increasing. The guy basically won the lottery.

Point is flying over your head here.

Equity in anything is worthless...zilch, zero...unless you sell it, or borrow against it.

If a person wants to run their business, it doesn't matter if its worth 1 mill, 7 mill or $10. It's a space where they do their business.

In that regard, property taxes DO matter, and they are very fucking high for a business in Vancouver.

So, for those keeping score:

Land? Unavailable and expensive.
Taxes? Sky fucking high

Oh yes, come and open a small business..you are the future employers of Canada!

Sure. The fuck they are.

[iEatClams]

Originally Posted by Gridlock

Point is flying over your head here.

Equity in anything is worthless...zilch, zero...unless you sell it, or borrow against it.

If a person wants to run their business, it doesn't matter if its worth 1 mill, 7 mill or $10. It's a space where they do their business.

In that regard, property taxes DO matter, and they are very fucking high for a business in Vancouver.

So, for those keeping score:

Land? Unavailable and expensive.
Taxes? Sky fucking high

Oh yes, come and open a small business..you are the future employers of Canada!

Sure. The fuck they are.

Yes, that's the thing, he does have the option to sell it, and make millions. So I don't feel remorse for these business owners, as they are the lucky ones. They basically won the lottery.

The ones we should feel for are the ones that want to come in, the ones that want to start a new business, and can't compete because certain areas are too expensive, or rent is too high because of the lack of supply of commercial space due to space being converted to condos.

Yes it's hard for businesses to compete when taxes are sky high. This is the the blame of the Municipality. What happens is they get greedy so they Zone everything to mixed use or residential, instead of commercial or light industrial. When this happens the property value of those lots skyrocket. Cause now it can be developed into a skyscraper.

City can solve a lot of these issues if they dont change the official community plan or rezone any of those prime areas to residential.

The only major areas remaining for businesses outside of downtown is Hastings, which is unfortunately slowly being zoned to mixed use / high density residential.

[iEatClams]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

I think a lot of people, including many working for the typical media rags, are a bit behind the times when it comes to the economy and land use. There is a substantial number of entrepreneurs and start-ups who don't necessarily need a lot of space to run their businesses. Now, I don't roll in the start-up circle, but the number of them in the region is growing by the day to the point where you can't deny their existence and thus their potential impact on the economy.

There are definitely a lot of people living on credit in the city, but there also those who do well and shelter their income through their companies. I've done a bit of reading and this seems to be a explanation put out by some local economists. This may explain why average incomes are lower in Metro Vancouver in comparison to other major cities in Canada.
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It's not just about small space, its also about major offices too. We cant think of just the small start-ups. What about mid-size companies with 20-250 employees? Not many new office towers or office areas being built outside of downtown. And if they are, they are being built in locations with poor transit routes like the industrial parks on Marine down in south burnaby.

Only major office space I can think of is the new metro tower 3 at metrotown, and the development at Renfrew and Broadway. But they could have made more density here as a lot of this space seems wasted. There should be more office spaces going up in brentwood, production way. We need more supply in order to make rents cheaper.

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by azndude69

It's not just about small space, its also about major offices too. We cant think of just the small start-ups. What about mid-size companies with 20-250 employees? Not many new office towers or office areas being built outside of downtown. And if they are, they are being built in locations with poor transit routes like the industrial parks on Marine down in south burnaby.

Only major office space I can think of is the new metro tower 3 at metrotown, and the development at Renfrew and Broadway. But they could have made more density here as a lot of this space seems wasted. There should be more office spaces going up in brentwood, production way. We need more supply in order to make rents cheaper.

There is a AAA class office tower going up in New West above the new civic center(which is a whole other story on how the city is self-financing it)

Metro 3 will soak up a lot of the demand for premium space, so the key is to watch how quickly its filled out. If they can fill it without challenge, then obviously there is demand for more space.

I'm not even talking office space though. I'm talking anything. The Hastings area should stay zoned commercial, and you could have any of 1000 things located within minutes of downtown. Even the small office/warehouse townhouse kind of things(forget the name you'd use) where you could have flooring, and cabinet makers and all that other stuff within minutes of downtown.

The key is zoning it properly, publicly stating that zoning won't change and that kills monetary increases on selling out to condos.

And oh! Don't we have a problem with employment in the DTES? God, having a productive area minutes away would go a long way to solving some of those issues wouldn't it.

No one will build it if they can do the same space, or more space for less money in Burnaby, or Richmond or wherever.

[4444]

Originally Posted by Gridlock

There is a AAA class office tower going up in New West above the new civic center(which is a whole other story on how the city is self-financing it)

Metro 3 will soak up a lot of the demand for premium space, so the key is to watch how quickly its filled out. If they can fill it without challenge, then obviously there is demand for more space.

I'm not even talking office space though. I'm talking anything. The Hastings area should stay zoned commercial, and you could have any of 1000 things located within minutes of downtown. Even the small office/warehouse townhouse kind of things(forget the name you'd use) where you could have flooring, and cabinet makers and all that other stuff within minutes of downtown.

The key is zoning it properly, publicly stating that zoning won't change and that kills monetary increases on selling out to condos.

And oh! Don't we have a problem with employment in the DTES? God, having a productive area minutes away would go a long way to solving some of those issues wouldn't it.

No one will build it if they can do the same space, or more space for less money in Burnaby, or Richmond or wherever.

i wish they turned the DTES into another centre for mixed office/commerical space.

this city DOES NOT need more poorly built condos that will look like arse in 30 years (look at yaletown - looking its age)