Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Hehe

The more correct and important question is, should China go soft on its purchasing power, what's to maintain GVR's RE market?

All the other countries that have rich people, including Canada? I'm not saying its immune to a downturn, but I think after the climbs its had for a consistent length of time, its going to take an absolute anomaly to crash anything here.

[hud 91gt]

Honestly. I don't know what to think of the current market. I've been eyeing it for years. I have full access to realtor information (Mother is a realtor), and watch very closely in the Kitsilano, Fairview markets.

I've been taking it a little more seriously as of the fall, and I honestly am baffled at peoples reactions. Things are moving so quick, there is no rationale in their decision making other then "We have to get this unit now".

I just walked out of a '80's 1 bedroom in Kits. Renovated very nicely, massive outdoor space. The place show's beautifully. The building itself is completely unknown. I ran through the strata minutes yesterday evening (I had them from a unit that sold last week. It sold in a few days which is the norm right now). Needs an entirely new roof. New piping. A depreciation report has been planned for 3 years! 3 Fucking years! It is not complete yet. The strata has some how put it off, year after year due to not enough money in the strata. As of monday, this unit will be gone. Guaranteed. With so many unknown variables, it's nuts. There is a third unit in the building which went up today. I assume it will go quickly as well, although it is in original condition.

As 4444 stated earlier in the thread, people are making offers without any subjects. If you want to be safe, and make this subject to's, the seller will just pick the other offer. It's that simple. People are not acting rational. I'm talking about unit's under $500,000. You know, the type of unit a regular joe can afford(I can't believe I can say a regular joe can afford 1/2mill, it's just the way it is).

I am invited to a friends and family sale for a building which is going up on Main next month. I own a unit from this developer in Victoria. For some reason I feel "privileged" to go and have the ability to put my savings into a unit before the general public. Stretch my finances to the max and put some of my fun money on hold, just so I can get into the Vancouver market. It's insane.

I shake my head speaking to the realtors. There is no time to think in this market. When I don't think when buying stocks. I lose. It's emotional, irrational and just doesn't make sense.

I have an above average paying job for today's standards. I struggle to purchase a decent accommodation in the city. Are dual income families only allowed in the city? Dual income couples only (Kids costs money you know, so does the extra square footage required). Should you leverage your other properties to try and gather as many as you can? Or will it be outsiders only. The ones with money, which clearly aren't making it in Vancouver.

I don't even know what i'm saying. Rather i'm just baffled at what I see. It's just insane. Shit is about to explode, or implode. I honestly don't know which one it's going to be. People are so leveraged it can't take much to push them over the edge.

[Hondaracer]

the people who are going to get hit the hardest are the ones who are leveraged all to hell in buildings you describe there that are going to have massive special levy's come down, no cash in the strata, and no real depreciation report. It will be leaky condo's all over again when someone who can barely afford to pay their mortgage as is is then asked to pony up 50k for a new roof.

imo Depreciation report is #1 by a long shot in determining whether you buy or not. If one does not exist, others can outbid me all day long, in fact, please do.

[Tapioca]

It is crazy that the Strata Property Act allows the deferral of depreciation reports by a 3/4 vote of the members. I imagine that even in the majority of well-managed complexes, owners (or at least the ones who care enough to show up to an AGM) will vote to defer because they don't want their property values to go down.

[UFO]

There are problems with the depreciation report process itself as well. It costs an insane amount of money to do for how often it needs to be done, officially by the books anyways. If your building has had many recent big ticket things done, there is little value in the depreciation report other than the fact you can say you have one... Your key is to look at all the info/minutes/finances as part of the bigger picture.

Personally, I felt the process of mandating depreciation reports to be a bit of a cash grab from within the industry. Really I put as much value in that as a home inspection report

[Timpo]

will Vancouver ever gonna look like China?

[Mr.HappySilp]

^^ we might have more apartments we no way we would build this many highways or bridges. The gov is way too slow to act to build roads like Beijing does.

Actually let me say that again. Our gov lacks the vision to see where Vancouver is going and only cares about getting voted in for the next elections with no future plan. Only band aid solutions.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

^^ we might have more apartments we no way we would build this many highways or bridges. The gov is way too slow to act to build roads like Beijing does.

Actually let me say that again. Our gov lacks the vision to see where Vancouver is going and only cares about getting voted in for the next elections with no future plan. Only band aid solutions.

That's not right... our gov't has a vision... a future where everyone's on bike

[4444]

in real life China doesn't even look like that. the smog eliminates views like those in the photos on a normal day (I was in Shanghai recently, across the river from the CBD, couldn't see the top of the buildings, China is not the future and i think the world economy is starting to realize this now as hud91gt refers to)

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by Timpo

will Vancouver ever gonna look like China?

we have the globe ->science world

we won't have viaducts, we're trying to tear down the one we have

and nope...we have bike lanes...and will have many more...replace the roads with bike lanes and maybe we have a chance

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by 4444

in real life China doesn't even look like that. the smog eliminates views like those in the photos on a normal day (I was in Shanghai recently, across the river from the CBD, couldn't see the top of the buildings, China is not the future and i think the world economy is starting to realize this now as hud91gt refers to)

I was in Beijing for 2 week in Feb and to be honest I didn't see any smog (expect the last day but then it wasn't that bad). So the mask I purchased to use was thrown out. I can say though I don't really like how Beijing looks at night. Too many buildings used those bright red and blue and green lights at night (like how HK was back in the 80s). It is just too bright. Doesn't look pretty at all. I really hope we don't have too many apartments building up otherwise we lost our beautiful view as a city.

[Digitalis]

As someone that likes tinkering with cars I have to ask. What is the motivation for anyone to stay in Vancouver? Stop and go traffic everywhere, everything is a line up.
Combine that with my second hobby which is making food from scratch and that requires land which again isn't going to happen in Vancouver.
This is a great time to be unloading half my assets and pick up a few gt3s and actually enjoy them. Vancouver can keep it's bike lanes and trendy hipsters.

It boggles my mind how invincible people think Vancouver is, until I point out what would happen in an earth quake.
There is no airport for help to land on (because richmond will either be underwater).
All the bridges will be fuxored
Anyway out of the city will also be the way "in" for help to arrive.

[asian_XL]

Originally Posted by Timpo

will Vancouver ever gonna look like China?

Chinese cities can become more Vancouverish, but Vancouvers should never become China-ish, thanks.

[Gululu]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

I was in Beijing for 2 week in Feb and to be honest I didn't see any smog (expect the last day but then it wasn't that bad). So the mask I purchased to use was thrown out.

I was in Beijing for a short stay just prior to Christmas time. The sky was perfectly blue same as here in the Lower Mainland. I find Westerners tend to exaggerate the gray sky, when most of time its not even pollution. It is the typical winter sandstorm, that gets blown to beijing area from arid regions in the northwest.

[hud 91gt]

I use to go to China (Beijing or Shanghai) about twice a month. 75% of the time it was grey. 15% of the time it was blue sky. 10% of the time you didn't want to leave your hotel room. Rather I'd stare at the hotel supplied emergency oxygen mask. Luckily, the one time I went to the Great Wall it was one of those blue sky days. I can look back at my pictures and create an imaginary story of how beautiful the place is.

But were off topic.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Gululu

I was in Beijing for a short stay just prior to Christmas time. The sky was perfectly blue same as here in the Lower Mainland. I find Westerners tend to exaggerate the gray sky, when most of time its not even pollution. It is the typical winter sandstorm, that gets blown to beijing area from arid regions in the northwest.

For what it is worth, the current Beijing US Embassy air pollution real time air quality index gives Beijing a rating of 38, which is quite "good" for Beijing. In the nearby vicinity within the 5 Ring Roads, the numbers range from the low 30's to 60 -- above 50, it seems like the air quality is no longer "good" since the colour changes from green to yellow.

Beijing US Embassy, Beijing Air Pollution: Real-time PM2.5 Air Quality Index (AQI)

I don't remember what level Vancouver starts to consider its air quality to be poor, but for the past few days, our PM2.5 rating has been slowly rising from an average of 3 to 12. As I am typing this up, the AQHI is sitting at 2.

So think about that. 2 vs 30. Or 12 vs 60. Where would you rather be? If you ask the folks in Beijing, I bet you anything that the majority of their bodies will be very brutally honest.

[R1CED`]

anyone have experience in 1/2 duplexes?

I'm toying around with the idea of continuing renting (amazingly cheap) and getting a townhome/duplex in Van/Bby within the next year to rent out as a means to build equity.

I don't have the time/energy for active investing... i keep it simple so it's all minimal stuff like GIC/ETF

For townhouse I can anticipate 20% down but duplex probably only 15%. I think strata fees are bullshit but I don't wanna stretch myself thin either.

I know townhouse growth is classified as condos which has been meh...what about growth of duplexes? Is it a lot more comparable to detached homes?

Where can I get a better idea of all the costs involved? (property tax, insurance etc). Rental costs on CL/PM are all over the map. Property tax I see are $3-4K...that's for the full lot, correct? For 1/2 duplex is it 50% of that? What happens when the other 1/2 of the duplex decides they wanna rebuild/rezone etc?

[SumAznGuy]

Pros of Duplex is owning actual land
Only one neighbour

Cons can't do shit with the land without the other owner's consent
For the most part, shared roof and walls. If you want to replace the roof or paint the walls, you will need their approval before doing anything.
Depending on the unit, layout may be good or sucky.
There are some newer styled duplexes where you share a small wall with a small roof.
There are a few duplexes in coquitlam where the main houses are detached but the garages have a shared roof and wall.

For example, there is a pocket near BCIT that has a lot of duplexes. Think of a street with nothing but duplexes. Look up Norfolk street in Burnaby. All the lots are standard sized and below with duplexes built onto them. They all have 1/2 car garages and the area has high rentals so the street is packed with cars.

We looked at one duplex which ended up selling for $720K. Upstairs and downstairs were seperate 2 bed room units that were being rented out for $1200-1400 each. So estimate monthly income as being $2400-2800.

[JoshuaWong]

I was in Shanghai for a month back around two years ago and numbers and report aside, I thought the skies were very clear around 70% of the time. I did notice a slight smell in some places though.

I also went to Shenzhen a year ago and I thought the air was actually better than Hong Kong in some places, also as clear if not more clear than in Hong Kong.

Beijing might be a different story, I think the geography in that area there is like adding oil to the fire that is pollution.

Originally Posted by Gululu

I was in Beijing for a short stay just prior to Christmas time. The sky was perfectly blue same as here in the Lower Mainland. I find Westerners tend to exaggerate the gray sky, when most of time its not even pollution. It is the typical winter sandstorm, that gets blown to beijing area from arid regions in the northwest.

[Scotsman]

From The Province about "Rent or Own"

Rent or own? In the superheated Metro Vancouver housing market, the choice isn?t obvious | The Province

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by R1CED`

anyone have experience in 1/2 duplexes?

I'm toying around with the idea of continuing renting (amazingly cheap) and getting a townhome/duplex in Van/Bby within the next year to rent out as a means to build equity.

I don't have the time/energy for active investing... i keep it simple so it's all minimal stuff like GIC/ETF

For townhouse I can anticipate 20% down but duplex probably only 15%. I think strata fees are bullshit but I don't wanna stretch myself thin either.

I know townhouse growth is classified as condos which has been meh...what about growth of duplexes? Is it a lot more comparable to detached homes?

Where can I get a better idea of all the costs involved? (property tax, insurance etc). Rental costs on CL/PM are all over the map. Property tax I see are $3-4K...that's for the full lot, correct? For 1/2 duplex is it 50% of that? What happens when the other 1/2 of the duplex decides they wanna rebuild/rezone etc?

Townhouses have increased just as much as detached homes in certain areas of Metro Vancouver over the last couple of years. I'm thinking Vancouver, Burnaby, and the Tr-Cities.

Not all duplexes are created alike. Many new duplexes are indeed strata, even if the owners don't pay on-going fees. The Strata Property Act will apply to these properties which can be a plus or a negative, depending on how well you can get along with the neighbouring owner.

There's no free lunch when it comes to maintenance as you will have to pay for it in money and/or time eventually. The advantage of a freehold is that you do the maintenance on your own terms - you either do the work yourself or you hire a general contractor who may work for less than insured contractors, electricians, plumbers, etc. whom stratas have to hire. However, is the premium of a freehold property over a similar strata property worth the premium to you over the long-term? How handy or resourceful are you when it comes to maintenance? Are you inherently distrustful of strata councils? You could always join the council yourself if you want to have some control over how your property is managed and maintained in the long-term.

[Hondaracer]

Any strata costs you big $$$ long term really, if you were to buy a freehold property with a rental suite, the cost to live in that type of property is almost zero compared to a strata. Especially a bad strata where your money is going no where.

In regards to duplexes, we went to an open house in east Van, I believe it was across from templeton school, brand new construction:



The front of this duplex was listed at 875.

It was 975sq feet if I remember correctly. Essentially a 1br den, it had a tiny little bed room downstairs separate from the living space/kitchen, then upstairs it had a loft style office and a bedroom you could not fit a king size bed in, and even with a queen, there was no room for a dresser. All you have is a small closet and maybe some sort of unit within the closet.

As well, your portion of the "yard" is the front porch and from there to the curb. The back half of the unit gets the back yard, and they each get half of the tiny garage in the back, a single car garage, divided with separate entries.

875 for under 1000 sq feet duplex lol.

I will give them the finishing and construction looked good, but if it didn't it would be that much more laughable.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Spoiler!

Any strata costs you big $$$ long term really, if you were to buy a freehold property with a rental suite, the cost to live in that type of property is almost zero compared to a strata. Especially a bad strata where your money is going no where.

In regards to duplexes, we went to an open house in east Van, I believe it was across from templeton school, brand new construction:



The front of this duplex was listed at 875.

It was 975sq feet if I remember correctly. Essentially a 1br den, it had a tiny little bed room downstairs separate from the living space/kitchen, then upstairs it had a loft style office and a bedroom you could not fit a king size bed in, and even with a queen, there was no room for a dresser. All you have is a small closet and maybe some sort of unit within the closet.

As well, your portion of the "yard" is the front porch and from there to the curb. The back half of the unit gets the back yard, and they each get half of the tiny garage in the back, a single car garage, divided with separate entries.

875 for under 1000 sq feet duplex lol.

I will give them the finishing and construction looked good, but if it didn't it would be that much more laughable.

I wanted to go look at this duplex but the wife didn't like the area so we skipped.
It will sell for $875K.

We looked at the ones on Clark and 12th and the finishings were horrible.
They squeezed 3 bed rooms into the same sq ft. You can barely fit a single bed into the "bed room"
2 car garage but each side gets one car spot.
The tiling was crooked. Looked like it was done by a 5 year old who couldn't color within the lines.

[melloman]

If you guys want to talk about duplex or quads that are TINY look no further than Kitslano.

Buddies mom bought one last year. Old 1900's home, 100% gutted, bit of an addition on the back of the home, and then separated into FOUR units. They put 3 additional staircases in and let each unit have 3 stories (bottom floor is living/dining, then 1bdrm/1bath on each upper floor) and it cost her $750k.

I'd say it was abit over market value when bought, but assumption is that now it's worth about $1mil. Granted location is quite nice at Arbutus & 14th Ave., but I can't see the square footage being anything over 1000.

I would love to own a duplex, but I'm not paying $800k-1mil to own HALF a property. Rather have a condo, and then jump to a home later on in life.

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by melloman

Rather have a condo, and then jump to a home later on in life.

Spoiler!

seriously though...