Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[VR6GTI]

Originally Posted by dat_steve

A close friend just purchased a house with her husband. Doubt they make 6 figures each, but probably pretty close (gross). Only way they could afford a relatively decent down payment was to take out a LOC secured by her parents' house. even then the payments are pretty huge. I'm guessing this is how a lot of people whose families aren't super well off are doing it. Makes me cringe to think of using debt to get more debt.

Ya thats not a good idea

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by 6o4__boi

saw this article this morning

The three-bedroom challenge: Space in short supply for Vancouver families

They could easily buy a 3-bedroom townhouse in North Vancouver or Port Moody and have everything they're accustomed to - access to the water, microbreweries, recreational trails, and green space. There would be no need to fret about not knowing your Mandarin-speaking neighbours.

It's that they don't want to give up the "Kits" lifestyle - whatever that is. I get it - 49th Parallel Roasters is pretty damn good coffee and Lucky Doughnuts are probably my favourite, but one could always buy the coffee in bags and brew it at home in one's Saeco Automatic.

[6o4__boi]

man, if we had $750k budget when we were buying the options would've been pretty endless

apparently to some no $750k condos/housing option in Kits = crisis

[westopher]

You do have to admit that it is legitimately fucking retarded what things cost, but like you said, the examples are a bit hilarious. Like we are talking about what is legitimately the most desirable neighbourhood in the whole country.

[Scotsman]

Originally Posted by 4444

I recall a report a couple of years ago which was either for Vancouver or BC (sorry, can't recall) stating that only 5% of workers earn >$100,000

That's slightly scary that 95% of workers (let alone those that don't work) earn less than $100,000.

Here is what I found from StatCan from 2011 and yes you are correct. Only 5%:

The top 10% of Canadians had incomes over $80,400

According to the 2011 NHS, 10% of Canadians had total incomes of more than $80,400 in 2010, almost triple the national median income of $27,800. To be in the top 5%, Canadians needed to have a total income of slightly above $102,300 and to be in the top 1% required just over $191,100, nearly seven times the national median income.

The top 10% of Canadians made an average income of $134,900, with the top 5% making one third more ($179,800) and the top 1% almost triple that amount ($381,300). Meanwhile, the bottom 90% had an average income of $28,000.

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/...1003_2-eng.cfm

[4444]

Originally Posted by quasi

In my neighborhood I swear I'm the only person within blocks that doesn't have a suite which is not helping the issue as far as density goes here. In order to afford these houses most people need the extra income to help pay there mortgage. If I had to put a suite in my house I'd downsize and move into a townhouse or a condo, no fucking way I'm dealing with that bullshit but that's just a personal decision.

My wife and I both work and make decent incomes, again no way in hell I'd take on a 700 or 800K mortgage on a million dollar home with 300 down. I guess it's the world were living in but I want no part of that crap, I'd pickup and move somewhere else before I did that. I plan to be mortgage free before 50, I hit 40 a few months ago so head down and stick to the plan.

a solid head on one's shoulders! congrats. and i'm with you, have no desire to live with basement renters (unless they were a family member)

i think the issue here is that you're 40, mature, and from a generation that is not entitled. millenials must have that brand new kitchen, hardwood floors, but don't want to work for it, so the mortgage must make up the difference. and, no, rates won't ever raise, because then they won't be able to have (afford) what they want

of course I'm generalizing, but there's no smoke without fire.

[4444]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

Here's the dilemma a lot of young professionals are probably facing right now. You and your partner probably make a decent amount of money, have connections (which can take years to build), and may or may not a small amount of savings or equity from a starter condo. Do you leave and take jobs in a regional centre, like Kelowna or Prince George where there's no guarantee that you'll make the equivalent salary? (one person might, but the other may not) What if you have ailing parents? Do you leave them and take flights into town every couple of months to do stuff, like take them to the doctor or cut their grass? Maybe it's worth the lower cost of living, but these are tough questions.

If you don't have citizenship or the right of abode in somewhere like the EU and cannot qualify for a TN/HB visa in the States, where else would you go in Canada? Toronto is just as bad in terms of real estate. I could fathom a place like Calgary which is at least somewhat cosmopolitan and has recreation nearby, but where else? Saskatoon? Winnipeg? Ottawa? Halifax? Sure, you could raise a family in Saskatoon, or Medicine Hat, but no one wants to retire there. As others on this forum have stated, people from Ontario dream of coming to BC.

If you're already in the market with a condo, do you cash out? Put a quarter of the proceeds into bonds and the remaining into equities and hope you obtain a return of 6-7% after taxes? Rent a basement suite for 1500/month and budget/factor in a move every 3-5 years? Or, perhaps you get on a list for co-op housing, pass the interviews, etc. and hope that a level of government continues to keep subsidizing your rent?

a very good point, only nuance i would say is I believe the toronto market (which is also bat shit crazy) has a more reasonable price to earnings ratio given incomes are that much higher in TO.

but then you'd have to live in TO. When I was looking to leave vancouver, i considered a number of places. None were in Canada as I just couldn't do the cold... i do agree with people that Vancouver has a quality of life premium, but that premium right now is on top of retardedness in housing prices in canada generally!

[Hondaracer]

TO prices aren't nearly as stupid as they are here. Not even close

[Z3guy]

Originally Posted by Scotsman

Here is what I found from StatCan from 2011 and yes you are correct. Only 5%:

The top 10% of Canadians had incomes over $80,400

According to the 2011 NHS, 10% of Canadians had total incomes of more than $80,400 in 2010, almost triple the national median income of $27,800. To be in the top 5%, Canadians needed to have a total income of slightly above $102,300 and to be in the top 1% required just over $191,100, nearly seven times the national median income.

The top 10% of Canadians made an average income of $134,900, with the top 5% making one third more ($179,800) and the top 1% almost triple that amount ($381,300). Meanwhile, the bottom 90% had an average income of $28,000.



https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/...1003_2-eng.cfm

That is really surprising. Since we don't have allot big corporate HQs in BC and have allot of small businesses and a ton of construction going on, my gut tells me most income is not being reported. There is no way in heck anyone could afford to live in Vancouver with that income.

[unit]

well theres always dual income, so if you roughly double those numbers then mid-upper class couples and small families can afford places in the mid to upper 6 figs.

[dat_steve]

well judging by the general tone of the posts on revscene, most members are clearing $150k net working 4 days a week, returning 30% annually on that salary day trading, and laying serious pipe down every weekend.

[westopher]

Lol fuck yes. I had that exact thought rolling through my head.

[Infiniti]

Originally Posted by dat_steve

well judging by the general tone of the posts on revscene, most members are clearing $150k net working 4 days a week, returning 30% annually on that salary day trading, and laying serious pipe down every weekend.

[dat_steve]

damn courtney cox was so fine in the 90's

[buhdeh]

Yeah I wouldn't classify Toronto as "just as bad" as Vancouver. Condos are still pretty affordable (as opposed to 425k 1BR condos in Brentwood) and townhouses can be had for decent prices. Obviously the high-demand areas get as expensive as Vancouver but you also have to remember that pretty much every suit-and-tie office job pays more in Toronto with significantly higher career/earnings growth potential.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by dat_steve

well judging by the general tone of the posts on revscene, most members are clearing $150k net working 4 days a week, returning 30% annually on that salary day trading, and laying serious pipe down every weekend.

Lol!

[iwantaskyline]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

TO prices aren't nearly as stupid as they are here. Not even close

70 story condo's help a lot. We need those in Van, fuck the view.

[4444]

Originally Posted by Z3guy

That is really surprising. Since we don't have allot big corporate HQs in BC and have allot of small businesses and a ton of construction going on, my gut tells me most income is not being reported. There is no way in heck anyone could afford to live in Vancouver with that income.

given most people are employed and not self employed / contractors, i would suggest the majority of income is reported (ignoring immaterial cash in hand / illegal work - ok, illegal may not be immaterial, but not a material proportion of the population partake in illegal cash generating activities).

if you're employed, all employment income will be reported (why would a company risk not doing so, plus they don't get the benefit of deducting wage expense)

if you're a contractor - again, those contracting you will not, generally, want to deal with cash in hand work, if professional / material work involved.

some construction, i can see, but this kind of labour won't be 6 figure (think indian construction crews paying cash in hand for labourors at $15-20 an hour, or so)

how do people live in vancouver? on borrowed money, borrowed time, renting, no savings.

the savings rate in BC is negative - that says a lot.

[Harvey Specter]

Originally Posted by 4444

how do people live in vancouver? on borrowed money, borrowed time, renting, no savings.

Yup.

I would also add that a lot of people who have no business having massive mortgages have gotten their mortgages from crooked brokers or private lenders.

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by dat_steve

well judging by the general tone of the posts on revscene, most members are clearing $150k net working 4 days a week, returning 30% annually on that salary day trading, and laying serious pipe down every weekend.

Some of us make $14/hour, okay?

[ImportPsycho]

Remaining Jericho Lands sold to three First Nations for $480 million

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by iwantaskyline

70 story condo's help a lot. We need those in Van, fuck the view.

so you're saying you don't want a skyline?

[4444]

Originally Posted by Harvey Specter

Yup.

I would also add that a lot of people who have no business having massive mortgages have gotten their mortgages from crooked brokers or private lenders.

wait, what are you talking about, this isn't anything like US circa 2005, remember... canada's banking system is so advanced, conservative, and amazing, people with BS income can't buy million dollar homes with minimal cash (except for all those examples people have on here...)

ok it is different, canadian tax payers are DIRECTLY on the hook for Canada's impending housing faux pas, whereas the US government needed to step in and make their tax payers culpable... either way, the mistakes of the masses become the problem of all no matter where you are

[Hondaracer]

Trump is 70, so is shangrila

Few 50 storey towers at Brentwood now, and 4-6 proposed for Lougheed mall, slowly coming along

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Trump is 70, so is shangrila

Few 50 storey towers at Brentwood now, and 4-6 proposed for Lougheed mall, slowly coming along

For all those buildings you can chop off 10 stories off the actual height because there's no floor 4, 13, 14, 24, 34, 44, 54, 64, etc...