Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[iEatClams]

Originally Posted by StutteR_

Anyone know what the average commission structure looks like these days?

It's usually 2-3% on the first $100,000 and 4-5% on the remaining balance.

Unless you are part of 1% realty.

It's usually 7% on first 100K and 2-3% on the remaining.

The other agent bringing the buyer will get usually 3.25% on first 100K and usually about 1.25% on the balance. Sometimes there is usually a bonus $1-$5 grand or so.

[iEatClams]

If you've done renovations, and took our permits, one thing that helps when you are competing with other similar houses on the same block is to have your realtor show clients the permits and let them know that all the work done meets or was above code.

Many people dont take out permits and yes the vanities and kitchen cabinets look nice, but the structure and the other materials that you cant see are all inferior. Making copies and showing the permits has swayed decisions in the pass for my friend who was competing with another property down the block who also had work done but no permits (and was done cheaply too).

[subordinate]

Originally Posted by iEatClams

It's usually 7% on first 100K and 2-3% on the remaining.

The other agent bringing the buyer will get usually 3.25% on first 100K and usually about 1.25% on the balance. Sometimes there is usually a bonus $1-$5 grand or so.

Jesus...I knew realtors made good coin but that is incredible.

Average detached home in Vancouver is what? 750,000?

@ 2% plus the base, that's 13 + 7 = 21,000?

No wonder more and more people want to do it themselves. How much is a real estate license? UBC states, 1,075 for a basic program. Or take out all the books they recommend and read them yourself, following the curriculum.

[bing]

Originally Posted by subordinate

Jesus...I knew realtors made good coin but that is incredible.

Average detached home in Vancouver is what? 750,000?

@ 2% plus the base, that's 13 + 7 = 21,000?

No wonder more and more people want to do it themselves. How much is a real estate license? UBC states, 1,075 for a basic program. Or take out all the books they recommend and read them yourself, following the curriculum.

That's the total for both buying and selling agent. It's not that much after taxes, transaction fees for every deal to the firm and RE board, expenses (listing fees on MLS, yearly society fee, and then desk fees per month can go as high as 800 at re-max but around 250-300 for firms like Sutton, Royal Pacific, etc), rebates (lots of people ask for a 20-25% cut back), and if the realtor on both sides have to throw in some of their commission to make the deal work (i.e. buyer is short 5k from what seller wants so the realtors split the difference using their commission). As a realtor, you also have to account for the time/expenses dealing people who don't actually buy. There are people that simply go look at houses for months but can't pull the trigger (i.e. can't get financing, have nothing to do). You also need to take 15 credits per year (~3 courses on 3 days) every 2 years for $100 per course but mainly its a time expense.

Also, the market is highly skewed. The top 10% of realtors make like 90% of the sales. Behind all the glamor and the leased cars, there are also an inflated number of realtors around so many are working second jobs. Many people I know who weren't the type to go to school got their licenses. Their in for a big surprise as many have little to no sales still while paying that desk fee. By about 3 years if you aren't making money, its time to leave (sooner if you have a family to support. You need to sell around two properties per year depending on their value to break even).

[westopher]

Originally Posted by subordinate

Jesus...I knew realtors made good coin but that is incredible.

Well with a UBC Sauder school of business degree I'd hope they make that much.
A friend of mine who is in his first year of real estate pulled in 40k in one month, but who knows what will happen for the rest of the year.

[subordinate]

Originally Posted by westopher

Well with a UBC Sauder school of business degree I'd hope they make that much.
A friend of mine who is in his first year of real estate pulled in 40k in one month, but who knows what will happen for the rest of the year.

You're friend was likely very charismatic and a people person with great selling techniques.

[westopher]

He is very much so. He's one of those people that people gravitate to wherever he goes. He told me he knows that was a freak occurrence, but I think he will make a pretty good career out of it consistently.

[subordinate]

Originally Posted by westopher

He is very much so. He's one of those people that people gravitate to wherever he goes. He told me he knows that was a freak occurrence, but I think he will make a pretty good career out of it consistently.

Definitely, his personality is incredibly invaluable. He'd succeed in any sales/marketing career. Definitely a rarity.

[iEatClams]

One thing I am happy to hear is that the # of transactions have gone down about ~30 % from the 10 year average for the last 6 months or so. So many of these realtors will be out of jobs. I know of some people who recently made a career change or are looking for at other occupations. The amount of marketing that the real estate division at sauder does is unbelievable, for the last 4-5 years they have been heavily promoting their real estate division to wanna be realtors, it will be interesting to see if enrollment has substantially dropped for this program.

As a UBC alumni, I don't like my university to be associated with this real estate licensing course. Definitely some ethics and integrity concerns. . . .

[westopher]

While I'm not a fan of the way many real estate agents work, that post makes it sound like you actually take pleasure in people losing their jobs.

[bing]

^I agree. At the end of the day, many of those people who will be losing their jobs are just regular people trying to survive.

[iEatClams]

Originally Posted by westopher

While I'm not a fan of the way many real estate agents work, that post makes it sound like you actually take pleasure in people losing their jobs.

Im sorry if it comes across that way, and im not really happy when people are out of jobs as that person may have a family to support, but such is life, should we bring back employees that work at Video rental stores? People need to adapt. I tend to think of it more as weeding out the people that should not be realtors in the first place. The ones that are truly talented will still remain as realtors and im sure those realtors are happy that there's less "competition". This can go a whole off on a different tangent so Ill stop here.

But hey, a lot of these people SHOULD know the rewards and risks of being a realtor. For the last 10 years, many have been making a killing without doing much work. Honestly, many homes were sold over asking within a few days, and these real estate agents would make $20,000 on the sale for a weekend's work.

Many people saw this and wanted to cash in and become realtors themselves, hoping to get in on the gravy train. I've interacted with 30 + realtors in the last 2 years and I'd say that at least 20 of them provided poor service.

I can even get into the MLS and how they are trying to have a monopoly on real estate listing services. I know there are sites like zillow and for sale by owner but lets face it, real estate boards have a strangle hold on the market which allows them to have these high commision structures.

And lets not even mention the lack of regulation that realtors and real estate agent brokerages have. If this was stocks or financial regulation companies, many of these guys would have their licenses taken away immediately. Remember MAC marketing and the fake news stories on chinese investors? If this was the financial services industry,they would have been stripped of their license and sued. Not to mention how much fake and misleading advertisements the industry has, or the amount of misrepresentation.

--> It bothers me that there is such a lack of regulation for arguably the largest single investment a person will have in their life. I mean when a buyer easily pays over $500,000 for a property, you figure that that industry would be more strictly regulated.

I'm not anti-realtors or anti-real estate industry, I just want more accountability and integrity. . . . just remember folks, "it's buy now or buy never" , or "everyday is a good day to buy".

[4444]

Originally Posted by westopher

While I'm not a fan of the way many real estate agents work, that post makes it sound like you actually take pleasure in people losing their jobs.

it's simple risk, reward - when a realtor can make $40K in a month with no specific skills, education, or ability, you know something is wrong.

every transaction i've dealt with in Canada, the realtor has been absolutely useless, and I could have done everything myself (although as a businessman, i do have a particularly good understanding of how 'things' work). The one's i've dealt with in the US are all specialists in distressed property and provided, what i felt, was value for money on the purchases i make down there.

they want the potential to make tonnes of money hand over fist, but that comes with the risk of going months making $0. i could never be a realtor as i need a solid 6 figure income without question, so i got educated accordingly i can't say i'm excited about the work i do at my job, but i know i'll never be unemployed & have the skill to do many other things after 6pm.

this isn't about taking pleasure from anyone's pain, it is just what it is... risk & reward

i, also, have a problem with the lack of regulation and lack of barriers to entry with respect to higher education and ethics standards, but that's a personal thing

[UFO]

Originally Posted by iEatClams

As a UBC alumni, I don't like my university to be associated with this real estate licensing course. Definitely some ethics and integrity concerns. . . .

Well if you want to look big picture, universities are just businesses like anything else. The bottom line at the end of the day is $$. The fact that they can fill these classes means there's money to be made, if they didn't offer it a different institution would and somebody else would be taking/making that money.

There are ethical concerns well above and beyond real estate licensure courses if you're worried about the integrity of a university, all the way up to the top.

[4444]

Originally Posted by UFO

Well if you want to look big picture, universities are just businesses like anything else. The bottom line at the end of the day is $$. The fact that they can fill these classes means there's money to be made, if they didn't offer it a different institution would and somebody else would be taking/making that money.

There are ethical concerns well above and beyond real estate licensure courses if you're worried about the integrity of a university, all the way up to the top.

Is UBC not an NPO (Not for Profit Organization)? While it is a business, not for profit... But I do agree, more bums in seats, more money for research and other stuff uni's do

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by iEatClams

just remember folks, "it's buy now or buy never" , or "everyday is a good day to buy".

reminds me of the line from repo-men "you owe it to your family, you owe it to yourself"

[minoru_tanaka]

Originally Posted by iEatClams

As a UBC alumni, I don't like my university to be associated with this real estate licensing course. Definitely some ethics and integrity concerns. . . .

Tho I don't think being a RE agent is unethical, I do think it's sad that our city is so focused on just RE. We need business that brings money into the city not something like this that just makes most people just poorer.

And this thread, 4 pages in less than 12 hours about cheap condos isn't about "Thank God there's a place I can afford to live" but instead "I bet I can buy this and make a wack of money off it"
http://www.revscene.net/forums/68310...os-surrey.html

[Ludepower]

Boomers will finance kids' housing purchases, Vancouver's condo king says

Downsizing homeowners will sell their single-family homes, help pay for kids’ purchases, he says

By Tracy Sherlock, Vancouver Sun May 17, 2013


Boomers will finance kids' housing purchases, Vancouver's condo king says

Developer Bob Rennie works on his speech at his Vancouver office ahead of his address at the Urban Development Institute Vancouver’s gathering on Thursday, May 16, 2013. Boomers will continue to drive the Vancouver real estate market, he says.
Photograph by: Arlen Redekop , Vancouver Sun

Vancouver’s real estate market in the next 15 years will actually be two separate markets financed by one chequebook, real estate marketer and “condo king” Bob Rennie told an Urban Development Institute audience in Vancouver Thursday.

Those two markets will be downsizing, aging baby boomers on the one hand and their first-time-homebuyer kids and grandkids on the other hand. But in both cases, the purchases will be financed by the baby boomers, who will be selling their fully-paid-for single-family homes, Rennie predicted.

His remarks at the UDI annual general meeting came on the same day Colliers International reported a 45-per-cent drop in sales of new multi-family homes in Metro Vancouver for the first quarter of the year compared to the same period last year.

“The surge in sales activity that is typically expected during the first quarter of a year did not materialize in 2013,” Colliers’ first quarter MarketShare report stated. The 2,033 new multi-family home sales represented a six-per-cent drop from the fourth quarter of 2012.

Colliers said the major drop in new multi-family sales for the beginning of 2013 can be attributed to several factors, among them the fact that sales in the first quarter of 2012 were much higher than in previous years.

Nonetheless, the report describes the market as “somewhat stressed,” something Colliers attributes to softening investment demand for new multi-family homes and increasing supply on the market. Resales are down 17 per cent in the first quarter compared to a year ago, Brown said.

Colliers does not predict any drastic correction for the Vancouver real estate market. Looking forward, Brown said Colliers expects a modest increase in sales in the second quarter compared to the first.

The steep year-over-year drop certainly failed to dent Rennie’s enthusiasm for Vancouver real estate.

While there is short-term softening, Rennie told the development professionals that 590,000 newcomers will buy the clear-title homes boomers need to off-load over the next 15 years.

Rennie’s speech was interrupted by a visit from Premier Christy Clark, who also addressed the audience and thanked Rennie and developer Peter Wall for their support.

Vancouver real estate buyers are not entirely dependent on only their incomes to buy their homes, he noted. Just 4.9 per cent of Metro Vancouver residents make more than $100,000 a year, while 65 per cent earn less than $55,000 a year.

At Wall Centre Central Park, Rennie’s firm has sold 282 homes, mostly aimed at that 65 per cent, he said.

“The feds, Flaherty and the banks have a really hard time understanding the Vancouver real estate market,” Rennie said. “They’re asking how does a $50,000-a-year income find a $75,000 down payment.”

But Rennie said they’re getting those down payments from their parents and grandparents.

As for the controversy surrounding his less-expensive, scaled-down alternative to a high-end Vancouver Art Gallery replacement, Rennie said Vancouverites are more inclined to spend their leisure time outdoors climbing the Grouse Grind or walking the Stanley Park seawall.

“It’s a huge cultural observation to me and that’s why we have the difficulty — aside from population — in Greater Vancouver. We entertain naturally, which may account for the lack of big city venues,” he said. “We are just different.”

The public outcry over the closure of east-side cultural hub the Waldorf Hotel generated thousands of signatures of support, Rennie pointed out, while the VAG’s new-building petition garnered fare fewer, less than 400.

He said Vancouver should band together with its surrounding suburbs to work on issues like the homeless, affordable rental housing or the maintenance of Stanley Park.

“The region uses these facilities, they’re just in Vancouver. The brand is Vancouver and Vancouver is the franchise,” Rennie said. “Vancouver carries the weight of the region. As long as the region is letting the city solve its problems, it’s going to cost a lot more to do business in Vancouver.”

B.C.’s demographics will mean there are no forced sales, Rennie said, because most of the baby boomers have paid for their homes in full. Even if prices drop a bit, boomers will sell their homes as long as they can stay in the same community and live in a home that meets their needs, Rennie said.

“That has to change what we’re building, and who we’re building it for,” Rennie.

He gave an example of someone selling a Shaughnessy home who was asking for $6.9 million last summer, but settled for $5.5 million this year because the drop in price meant they could still move into a $2.5-million townhome in Shannon Mews on Granville Street, with money left over.

He said the boomers will be luxury shoppers, but also utilitarian buyers. He gave the example of dens, which he said boomers will demand be flexible — they will want a den that can be an extra bedroom, a family room or a dining room extension for large family dinners.

“They want more room, not more rooms,” Rennie said.

While they may be luxury shoppers when shopping for themselves, the boomers will seek convention before they write a cheque for their own children, Rennie said.

“They won’t pay for crazy lofts or crazy green initiatives,” Rennie said. “We have no precedent for this economy, and we have no precedent for this aging, iPhone-carrying demographic.”

The Colliers report also lists several significant projects that will be selling in the second quarter, including Cressey’s Arbutus Ridge and Century Group’s 3 Civic Plaza in Surrey City Centre, and noted that Wall Centre Central Park as a “launch success” and that most of the units in the first offering at the Shannon Mews project have sold.

The report notes the 60-unit Metro townhome project by Mosaic in Burnaby as an indicator for townhouses in that city. It also states that sales have been suspended at the Alba project on East Hastings Street until further notice due to lack of sales activity.

tsherlock@vancouversun.com

Twitter.com/tracysherlock
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

Thanks Renney for stating the obvious. Why dont you explain how people can afford to keep paying their mortgages with 65% of the population making 55k? Let me guess...keep asking parents for help.
A band aid for disaster.

[4444]

That Rennie guy is an idiot - should be illegal what he says (would be if he were talking about shares of a company that he sells) - ppl are too stupid to realize that it's all a house of cards

[godwin]

The thing is by the time the house of card falls.. Rennie and most of us on the board will be long retired.

Originally Posted by Ludepower

Thanks Renney for stating the obvious. Why dont you explain how people can afford to keep paying their mortgages with 65% of the population making 55k? Let me guess...keep asking parents for help.
A band aid for disaster.

[godwin]

Well thanks to the conservative and their small gov policies (small Stat Canada etc).. what Rennie say cannot be illegal, because there is no authoritative gov information to debunk what he spews, so there is no easy way to make what he says is illegal.. Not to mention he sells himself as a "Marketing System".. he is just a salesperson.

Harper and his crew knows how to create a reality distortion field, so basically all his enemies are screwed no matter what they do and normal Canadians are compliant.

Originally Posted by 4444

That Rennie guy is an idiot - should be illegal what he says (would be if he were talking about shares of a company that he sells) - ppl are too stupid to realize that it's all a house of cards

[Gridlock]

Oh shit...too much to type for the tablet, but rennie! What a douche.

Hey! RE prices too high? No problem, well have mom and dad downsize...bonus if we can convince them its for their own good and put them in a single level living situatin or some crap and then spend their 30 year nest egg on a sweet condo from rennie that is overpriced but livable at 300 feet.

With rennie, you are never sure that you want the lifestyle, but the builders can profit at building it for you once youve been convinced.

[quasi]

That article talks about the Alba project, I had pretty much landed that fucking job and then they postponed/cancelled it what a fucking piss off.

[Gridlock]

So I was thinking about this...are we like, kind of screwed?

The baby boomers paid for their parents(took them in, covered bills) paid for themselves, then paid for their children, who, I read in another article...won't fucking leave.

What a distorted system.

[4444]

Originally Posted by godwin

Well thanks to the conservative and their small gov policies (small Stat Canada etc).. what Rennie say cannot be illegal, because there is no authoritative gov information to debunk what he spews, so there is no easy way to make what he says is illegal.. Not to mention he sells himself as a "Marketing System".. he is just a salesperson.

Harper and his crew knows how to create a reality distortion field, so basically all his enemies are screwed no matter what they do and normal Canadians are compliant.

I don't think you should jump on the conservative's back - this isn't a stats Canada thing, as stats can be read and interpreted in many different ways.

The issue is that there is no regulation on real estate with respect to pumping, lying, dumping the stuff.

There, to my knowledge, has never been, and that's the problem