Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[westopher]

Originally Posted by C-One

Look at it from the perspective of you selling the house.

Do you want $2,000,000 for your property or $1,000,001 ?

Look at it from this perspective.
Would you like to:
1. Live in a city with no restaurants, music venues, gas stations, police, doctors, firefighters, grocery stores, etc and have your house be worth 2 million dollars (which is absolutely nothing unless you sell the house and move out of the city)
2. live somewhere nice and have a house worth 1 million dollars.
3. Sell your 2 million dollar house and get the fuck out Vancouver and move to Kamloops.

As long as you live in your house you have 0 dollars anyways.

[hud 91gt]

Originally Posted by C-One

Look at it from the perspective of you selling the house.

Do you want $2,000,000 for your property or $1,000,001 ?

The only people this would really effect are real estate investors, and retirees looking to downgrade(but these people have been riding the upward wave from the beginning). When you sell your home for 2 million that you'd like, you now have to pay 3 million for that bigger lot.

What's the advantage to higher house prices other then bragging how much it's worth?

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by Traum

Getting more money for your house is nice and everything, but as with the case in life, money isn't everything.

Kinda hard to agree or disagree with your story without knowing all the details.
How old is she. Married divorced or widowed.
How old are her kids.

My first question is why isn't she selling her detached house and moving into a smaller older condo and taking the cash and giving it to her kids so that they can buy in Vancouver.

Or how big is her house, and why can't her kids live in her house?

What about selling the house and renting in the boonies and pocketing the money.

[noclue]

lol you guys are seriously underestimating human greed.

They should get rid of this as this is within provincial government's power.
Defer Your Taxes - Province of British Columbia.

It'll force a lot of people with modest cash flow to sell.

[GLOW]

that was put in place to prevent exactly that

[Timpo]

B.C. real estate companies join Christy Clark on trade mission to Asia
'It's bad optics,' says critic, pointing to concern over how foreign investment may be pushing up prices
CBC News Posted: May 28, 2016 8:51 AM PT Last Updated: May 28, 2016 12:23 PM PT

B.C. real estate companies join Christy Clark on trade mission to Asia - British Columbia - CBC News


Premier Christy Clark is leading a 13-day trade mission to Korea, Japan and the Philippines. (CBC)

Representatives of two real estate companies are travelling with the B.C. Premier on a trade mission to Asia, raising questions about the optics of the perceived partnership at a time when many are calling for an end to foreign real estate investment.

The B.C. government lists more than 60 companies taking part in the trade mission to Korea, Japan and the Philippines as part of the province's strategy to create more international trading partners.

Listed among those companies are two real estate brokerages Nu Stream Realty and Sutton West Coast Realty.

This news comes weeks after realtors in Vancouver came under question for advertising property information in China, before the same opportunity to buy was advertised in Canada.

Information about B.C. properties for sale — translated into Chinese from the Multiple Listing Service used by agents —was published through a Shanghai-based company to give clients a jump on bidding, according to the Victoria Times Colonist report on April 13.

Concern over foreign capital and real estate

"It's bad optics," said University of British Columbia business professor Tsur Somerville.

"At a time when people in the Lower Mainland are very concerned about the extent to which foreign capital is driving up prices here and contributing to affordability options, it seems a little bit politically dicey to take [brokerage] firms ... along on a trip to Asia."

The trade mission is not visiting China.

One of the companies, Nu Stream Realty, said it is on the trade mission to promote its commercial real estate division.

"This trip is mainly the commercial purpose. So we don't do any promotion for the residential side," said Anna Zhang, the company's executive vice president for commercial division.

She said one example of the goal of the trip is to find investors for construction projects in B.C.

"We want to promote B.C. and Vancouver particularly as a great place to do business ... we want to attract more overseas investors," said Zhang, who said there are 100 agents in the four-month-old company.

"I am sure it is not the government [of B.C.] paying for it," Zhang confirmed.

CBC News reached out to Sutton West Coast Realty, but the company has not responded.

In a written statement, the province said companies apply to take part in the trade mission and pay their own way on the trip.

"While real estate is not a specific industry sector of focus on the mission, companies in the industry may have an interest in connecting with foreign companies that intend to establish a presence in Vancouver and will require information on site selection, leasing office space, etc.," the statement said.

The province did not respond to questions about how companies chosen for the trip are selected.

[Timpo]

Smyth: Premier Clark fiddles while Metro Vancouver's real estate market burns

BY MICHAEL SMYTH, THE PROVINCE JUNE 7, 2016

Smyth: Premier Clark fiddles while Metro Vancouver's real estate market burns


Martyn Brown, former premier Gordon Campbell's one-time chief-of-staff, is calling on the government to do something about runaway prices in Metro Vancouver's hyper-inflated housing market.

Why is Premier Christy Clark fiddling while the Metro Vancouver real-estate market burns, frying to a crisp the home-ownership dreams of non-millionaires?
Is it because Clark's governing Liberal party is so heavily bankrolled by real estate tycoons and big property-development companies?

It wouldn't be surprising to hear that accusation coming from Clark's political enemies in the NDP, especially with a provincial election less than a year away.

But now it's a former top Liberal government power broker accusing Clark and company of ignoring the region's home-affordability crisis.

Martyn Brown was chief of staff under former Liberal premier Gordon Campbell, Clark's predecessor.

Brown is calling on the government to do something about runaway prices in Metro's hyper-inflated housing market.

“It's out of control,” Brown told me Monday. “People are being forced to abandon the dream of home ownership.”

Brown thinks a massive inflow of foreign capital — especially from China — is distorting the market and the government should step in. He points out other jurisdictions facing the same issue, like Australia, slapped restrictions on foreign property purchases.

Clark, however, has resisted any moves against foreign real estate investment. She also rejected an anti-speculation tax proposed by the NDP and Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson.

Brown sees a reason for the government's inaction: the millions of dollars flowing into Liberal party coffers from the deep-pocketed real estate companies and property barons making a killing in the market.

“They're getting inordinate say and clout over the policies of government,” Brown said. “That's who the government is listening to. It's just wrong.”

The government, of course, denies $12 million in Liberal loot from the real estate sector is influencing their decisions. They argue a housing shortage is the real problem and municipal governments are to blame for not approving enough new home construction.

But I think Brown raises great points and Clark is taking a big political gamble by refusing to effectively deal with the housing crisis.

Consider that 75 per cent of Metro residents think the government should intervene and 43 per cent are questioning whether to leave the region because of the home-affordability issue, according to a recent Angus Reid poll. Those are big numbers and the NDP could potentially capitalize on them in the coming election campaign.

The New Democrats, though, seem a little nervous about the foreign-ownership issue. Perhaps the NDP is worried about being politically incorrect or concerned they will seem to be pandering to racist haters if they propose restrictions on foreign property buyers.

Clark might also be convinced the real estate market madness will not be a big ballot-box issue at election time and people will vote on other issues instead, like her still-unfulfilled promise to develop a liquefied natural gas industry.

But I'd say real estate is the political elephant in the room. The elephant is getting bigger. Clark ignores it at her peril.

[nah]

Originally Posted by Timpo

Smyth: Premier Clark fiddles while Metro Vancouver's real estate market burns

BY MICHAEL SMYTH, THE PROVINCE JUNE 7, 2016

Smyth: Premier Clark fiddles while Metro Vancouver's real estate market burns


Martyn Brown, former premier Gordon Campbell's one-time chief-of-staff, is calling on the government to do something about runaway prices in Metro Vancouver's hyper-inflated housing market.

Why is Premier Christy Clark fiddling while the Metro Vancouver real-estate market burns, frying to a crisp the home-ownership dreams of non-millionaires?
Is it because Clark's governing Liberal party is so heavily bankrolled by real estate tycoons and big property-development companies?

It wouldn't be surprising to hear that accusation coming from Clark's political enemies in the NDP, especially with a provincial election less than a year away.

But now it's a former top Liberal government power broker accusing Clark and company of ignoring the region's home-affordability crisis.

Martyn Brown was chief of staff under former Liberal premier Gordon Campbell, Clark's predecessor.

Brown is calling on the government to do something about runaway prices in Metro's hyper-inflated housing market.

“It's out of control,” Brown told me Monday. “People are being forced to abandon the dream of home ownership.”

Brown thinks a massive inflow of foreign capital — especially from China — is distorting the market and the government should step in. He points out other jurisdictions facing the same issue, like Australia, slapped restrictions on foreign property purchases.

Clark, however, has resisted any moves against foreign real estate investment. She also rejected an anti-speculation tax proposed by the NDP and Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson.

Brown sees a reason for the government's inaction: the millions of dollars flowing into Liberal party coffers from the deep-pocketed real estate companies and property barons making a killing in the market.

“They're getting inordinate say and clout over the policies of government,” Brown said. “That's who the government is listening to. It's just wrong.”

The government, of course, denies $12 million in Liberal loot from the real estate sector is influencing their decisions. They argue a housing shortage is the real problem and municipal governments are to blame for not approving enough new home construction.

But I think Brown raises great points and Clark is taking a big political gamble by refusing to effectively deal with the housing crisis.

Consider that 75 per cent of Metro residents think the government should intervene and 43 per cent are questioning whether to leave the region because of the home-affordability issue, according to a recent Angus Reid poll. Those are big numbers and the NDP could potentially capitalize on them in the coming election campaign.

The New Democrats, though, seem a little nervous about the foreign-ownership issue. Perhaps the NDP is worried about being politically incorrect or concerned they will seem to be pandering to racist haters if they propose restrictions on foreign property buyers.

Clark might also be convinced the real estate market madness will not be a big ballot-box issue at election time and people will vote on other issues instead, like her still-unfulfilled promise to develop a liquefied natural gas industry.

But I'd say real estate is the political elephant in the room. The elephant is getting bigger. Clark ignores it at her peril.

Fuck this bitch...

[A-Dev]

http://www.vice.com/en_ca/video/surreal-estate-part-one

http://www.vice.com/en_ca/video/surreal-estate-part-two

[twdm]

Toronto, Vancouver home price gains unsustainable, Poloz warns - The Globe and Mail

Bank of Canada Governor Stephen Poloz says recent home price gains in the red-hot Toronto and Vancouver markets are unsustainable, increasing the probability of an eventual correction.

Economic “fundamentals” don’t justify a continuation of recent price gains in those two cities, Mr. Poloz warned in a statement accompanying the central bank’s twice-yearly review of risks buffeting the Canadian financial system.

“This suggests that prospective home buyers and their lenders should not extrapolate recent real estate performance into the future when contemplating a transaction,” Mr. Poloz said.

In the report, the bank pointed out that “self-reinforcing expectations” are fuelling both the price run-up and increasingly risky borrowing by some buyers.

Mr. Poloz, who is due to speak to reporters later on Thursday, did not offer any possible solutions to the growing vulnerabilities in the housing market. On Wednesday, federal Finance Minister Bill Morneau said the government is doing a “deep dive” on what’s going on in the housing market, but wouldn’t commit to when he might take further steps to try to cool it down.

In spite of the rising probability of a house price correction, the central bank insisted that the overall risk to Canada’s financial system is unchanged from six months ago, when it released its last Financial System Review.

Prices are now rising at a rate of roughly 25 per cent a year in Vancouver and 12 per cent in the Toronto area, according to the bank. The report identified supply constraints, particularly for single-family homes, as well as foreign buying as contributors to the sharp price gains.

“To the extent that foreign demand reflects buy-and-hold investment, it does not directly increase the risk of a house price correction,” the report said. “[But] foreign demand does contribute to price increases that are driving the rise in household indebtedness.”

The hot market is also causing some buyers to engage in more risky borrowing, according to the report. The bank said 15 per cent of mortgages issued last year went to purchasers with loan-to-income ratios of greater than 450 per cent, up from 12 per cent in 2014. The share of these highly leveraged mortgages accounted for nearly a quarter of all uninsured new mortgages by value last year.

The bank also conducted a stress test of what would happen to borrowers in the event of a regional price correction. It found that a 15 per cent price drop would leave 13 per cent of borrowers owing more than their homes are worth. And a 25 per cent price shock would leave 23 per cent of mortgages underwater.

“While very difficult for the affected households, the small size of the negative equity positions means the losses to lenders and insurers could be limited,” according to the report.

The bank pointed out that Canada’s housing market also remains highly fragmented. Prices are falling in the oil-producing regions dues to job losses, but elsewhere in the country housing markets “appear well balanced.”

The fresh warnings are not the first time the central bank has fretted about house prices and rising household debt. Indeed, the bank pointed out in the report that while “household vulnerabilities have moved higher,” the overall risk they pose to the financial system haven’t changed.

That’s because the economy is continuing to improve and the risk of a recession has decreased, according to the bank.

The other main risks to the financial system are a sharp increase in long-term-interest rates, stress from China and other emerging markets, and prolonged weakness in housing markets. And these remain unchanged from the last financial system review.

The report also said the Fort McMurray fire could be the largest catastrophic claim event in Canadian history, eclipsing the 1998 Quebec ice storm and the 2013 Alberta floods, with total claims of up to $6-billion. Nonetheless, the bank said the burden of claims will be shared by global reinsurers and Canadian banks won’t be “significantly” affected.

Nothing to see here folks. No housing bubble nor foreign money.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

Even home owners aren't liking it when they've noticed their property taxes are getting so high they might be priced out of their houses. Getting upset that housing prices might reflect what people actually earn around here is ridiculous.

Many people, myself included previously, don't realize that property taxes do not increase proportionately with property assessment values. Depending on the city's budgetary needs, your property taxes may continue to increase even if property values correct and drop 20%. And if that happens I'm sure there will be new outrage in the general public about high property taxes AND decreasing property values, imagine that!

Originally Posted by Liquid_o2

He was mentioning to me how nervous his parents are, because they aren't sure how their kids are going to be able to manage with what has gone on. He could care less that his home has gone up by a million bucks. It's not why he bought it.

I'm starting to believe that the millenials' sense of entitlement and expectations that we all like to make light of is due to over parenting; parents trying to be the best parents by giving there kids everything they want while growing up. The parents in the post above need to realize that as long as their kids have some education, good work ethic, drive to self improve, the kids will manage just fine. Just fine does not mean that they will/need to buy their own house, have a fancy car, etc etc. Living/renting in a modest starter condo is just fine, my parents grew up as a family of 8 in a unit smaller than the 'too small' shoeboxes that are currently pushed in new builds.

People have endured hard times throughout history. Many have immigrated to foreign countries with no understanding of language nor a penny to their name. So yeah, pretty sure those kids will be OK one way or another, the parents just have to let the kids find their own way

[Hondaracer]

People are just entitled whiners who are not willing to work hard enough to achieve what they picture as a "need"

As a lot of people and myself already mentioned, our parents and grandparents actually had to try for a living and make do with what they had. My grandma tells stories of my grandpa working 6-7 days a week 10 hour days coming home just long enough to eat and change clothes and go back, while she was at home taking care of 4 kids. She didn't need to go out on the weekends and take selfies for Instagram and long for a beach vacation. She knew the situation she was in and had to deal with it.

These same people came from Europe not only with no money, but owing Canadian immigration $400, same people made enough of a life for themselves to purchase a house and grind out those years of 18% interest. 18 fucking percent interest on a mortgage with 1 income..

House prices obviously aren't the same as they were in those days, but I think people can probably try a bit harder than they are now.

[Liquid_o2]

Originally Posted by UFO

Many people, myself included previously, don't realize that property taxes do not increase proportionately with property assessment values. Depending on the city's budgetary needs, your property taxes may continue to increase even if property values correct and drop 20%. And if that happens I'm sure there will be new outrage in the general public about high property taxes AND decreasing property values, imagine that!



I'm starting to believe that the millenials' sense of entitlement and expectations that we all like to make light of is due to over parenting; parents trying to be the best parents by giving there kids everything they want while growing up. The parents in the post above need to realize that as long as their kids have some education, good work ethic, drive to self improve, the kids will manage just fine. Just fine does not mean that they will/need to buy their own house, have a fancy car, etc etc. Living/renting in a modest starter condo is just fine, my parents grew up as a family of 8 in a unit smaller than the 'too small' shoeboxes that are currently pushed in new builds.

People have endured hard times throughout history. Many have immigrated to foreign countries with no understanding of language nor a penny to their name. So yeah, pretty sure those kids will be OK one way or another, the parents just have to let the kids find their own way

When my mom was born, her family lived in a room about 200 square feet in size and shared a kitchen and bathroom with 7 other families in the Soviet Union.

She knows her kids are going to be OK. I know I'm going to be OK. But what does that have to do with an out of whack housing market, where a house 45 minutes from downtown Vancouver now costs 12x the average household income?

People can make all the references they want, and all the excuses in the world. No matter how this plays out over the next 3 to 5 years, whether the prices correct or no, this isn't going to end well for Metro Vancouver.

[MarkyMark]

There's nothing entitled about this. "Entitled" would mean I expect to live in downtown Vancouver with a view of the ocean just because I was born here. Realistically, I just don't want to live paycheck to paycheck to afford a place that was once considered the boonies because rich motherfuckers think Vancouver is a safe place to keep their money.

If the issue was people take too many vacations and don't work hard enough then this would hardly be news. The cost of housing in the lower mainland is out of control and well beyond just telling someone to man up and work more overtime.

[Hondaracer]

Is a 2 bed room 2 bath condo not a "home" enough for Somone?

Is a 35 minute skytrain ride to get to work not acceptable?

If you work a regular 9-5 job that virtually anyone could be trained to do, do you automatically deserve to own a property as opposed to having to rent? To me it's kind of like the McDonald's minimum wage argument.

[6o4__boi]

lol reminds me of retards who "can't find 3 bedroom/family homes" with $800k+ budget because they only wanna live in Kits because "they grew up there" and "couldn't envision raising their family anywhere else."

there's a prime example of absolute entitlement

[Nlkko]

I don't know if you can call it entitlement, or the economic environment is just changing everywhere. Seems that the American dream of owning a detached houses, a car, a dog, 2 kids and a wife have been dying for a while. We're moving to more density across the board because there are just too many motherfuckers in this planets that everyone is competing for more desirable places such as North America/ Europe, etc.

The gap between the rich and the poor is more and more obvious now, and the middle class once the backbone of North America is going into extinction.

So it's an issue and I believe the government will need to intervene and protect its own citizens from foreign money. Some say the stock market is free, they just haven't a clue. It's heavily controlled and manipulated by the central banks. Leave to its own device, the market will be killed by greed, which is in human nature. Have we not learned about it 2007-2008? Then everyone will suffer, including the guys bragging "I bought early and now have paper value increase so and so". That is why central banks control is there for the stock market, as the government should do the same for RE.

You see the central bank of Canada governor came out and say price is unsustainable and unsafe. That's pretty powerful, that's not some random crook banking execs. I remember back in 2007, Janet Yellen came out and sounded the similar warning about US RE market.

I'm not calling for a crash, but realize we're reaching uncomfortable levels here and just because you bought in 5 years ago, and your paper value increase 2x, it does not mean it should stay that way. That's just your greed talking.

[Liquid_o2]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Is a 2 bed room 2 bath condo not a "home" enough for Somone?

Is a 35 minute skytrain ride to get to work not acceptable?

If you work a regular 9-5 job that virtually anyone could be trained to do, do you automatically deserve to own a property as opposed to having to rent? To me it's kind of like the McDonald's minimum wage argument.

A newish 2 bed 2 bath condo along Lougheed Highway in Burnaby or in the Metrotown area (since the person doesn't have a car and will take Skytrain to work) is $500k to $700k in price right now. Those are asking prices. The average double income family in Burnaby right now earns $79,500. Are you saying that people should be paying 6 to 10 times their annual income to own a 750 SF condo? And should they be having to save up $100,000 down payment to afford this condo? How many couples are able to save that much money in a normal amount of time?

Nobody is talking about entitlement. A person doesn't need a house in Point Grey overlooking the water, or even a 2 bed condo in Yaletown with views of Granville Island. But if we are talking about what every municipality preaches, which is a proper live/work lifestyle with sustainable communities, economic sustainability is a major factor. A couple making $100,000 combined shouldn't have to worry about standing in line overnight with thousands of other people to try and score a 2 bedroom condo in somewhat close proximity to transit without compromising their future.

$800 or $1000 a square foot condos don't make sense. Not for a standard new build condo. $150,000 condo down payments don't make sense. Not when people's incomes don't come even close to being able to afford it.

It still blows my mind that there are people around that are deniers. It's like arguing with anti-vaccinators.

[Hondaracer]

I just sold my 800sq foot surrey condo that I could have thrown a tennis ball from and hit gateway station for a 10k loss at 205

But yea, peeps gotta live on Lougheed doe

Tones of units in central city are selling way below 'value'

There's the new development there on Cambie and 12th offering studios for low 200's..

It's not societies fault you had two kids and now can't afford a fucking 600k Burnaby condo lol...to even post that shit about having to live in Burnaby screams entitlement in itself.

Oh, but older buildings in that area and suites going for 250-300k are completely out of the question as well right?

[Liquid_o2]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

I just sold my 800sq foot surrey condo that I could have thrown a tennis ball from and hit gateway station for a 10k loss at 205

But yea, peeps gotta live on Lougheed doe

That's cause your choosing an outlier of the shittiest part of all of Metro Vancouver. I grew up in Surrey and even I wouldn't live at 108th and King George. That's why I chose Brentwood/Lougheed/Metrotown as examples... not the shittiest, but also didn't choose the most expensive such as Olympic Village, Yaletown, etc.

[Liquid_o2]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

I just sold my 800sq foot surrey condo that I could have thrown a tennis ball from and hit gateway station for a 10k loss at 205

But yea, peeps gotta live on Lougheed doe

Tones of units in central city are selling way below 'value'

There's the new development there on Cambie and 12th offering studios for low 200's..

It's not societies fault you had two kids and now can't afford a fucking 600k Burnaby condo lol...to even post that shit about having to live in Burnaby screams entitlement in itself.

Oh, but older buildings in that area and suites going for 250-300k are completely out of the question as well right?

Sense of entitlement for Burnaby? When did it become Malibu Beach? Was it before or after they renovated the White Spot?

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Liquid_o2

A newish 2 bed 2 bath condo along Lougheed Highway in Burnaby or in the Metrotown area (since the person doesn't have a car and will take Skytrain to work) is $500k to $700k in price right now. Those are asking prices. The average double income family in Burnaby right now earns $79,500. Are you saying that people should be paying 6 to 10 times their annual income to own a 750 SF condo? And should they be having to save up $100,000 down payment to afford this condo? How many couples are able to save that much money in a normal amount of time?

To be fair, Burnaby is no longer a working class suburb. It's a suburb that is for Mainland Chinese and yuppies who are priced out of Yaletown or Kits. I say this as a resident of Burnaby of 8 years.

The average family income for people looking to buy today in Burnaby should not be 80K/year. It should be more like 130K. 2 young professionals - a junior engineer and a bank branch manager, for example. Based on a 10% down payment, that 550K 2 bed/2 bath condo at Tandem, OMA, Perspectives, Brentwood Gate, or Watercolours will cost about 2230 in mortgage payments per month. Combined with a strata fees of about $330 and a property tax bill of $200 per month, you're looking at about $2760 for housing costs.

$800 or $1000 a square foot condos don't make sense. Not for a standard new build condo. $150,000 condo down payments don't make sense. Not when people's incomes don't come even close to being able to afford it.

What's a 10 year old condo in Yaletown or Kits renting for these days? $2500/month? You can start to see why buying a condo in Burnaby, even at these ridiculous prices, can start to make sense.

It still blows my mind that there are people around that are deniers. It's like arguing with anti-vaccinators.

I definitely agree with you it's crazy. It's the perfect storm - persistent low interest rates, inter-generational wealth transfer, foreign money, complicit governments, revenue-starved municipalities, and maybe, just maybe, the fact that Metro Vancouver is actually a desirable place to live and play.

[MarkyMark]

Oh great, so we've restored to a Whalley shoebox as examples of affordable housing. See guys there's nothing wrong with housing costs if you don't mind living in the ghetto. You'll even live a healthier lifestyle with all the cardio you'll get while you're being chased by crackheads!

[Liquid_o2]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

What's a 10 year old condo in Yaletown or Kits renting for these days? $2500/month? You can start to see why buying a condo in Burnaby, even at these ridiculous prices, can start to make sense.

That's the problem. The real estate industry has made the public buy-in to the thought that this is the new normal.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Liquid_o2

That's the problem. The real estate industry has made the public buy-in to the thought that this is the new normal.

I definitely have no love for the real estate industry, but when you distill the factors influencing either market, this is a choice people are faced with.