Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[dat_steve]

Originally Posted by yray

stainless for peasants, built in is best appliance

as long as my serfs are getting the job done, idgaf if they're using stainless, marble, or sabretooth ivory tbh.

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by yray

stainless for peasants, built in is best appliance

especially when they've been tested by general labourers for at best their lunch exploding . at worst...use your imagination

same goes for your bathroom

[Hondaracer]

That Brisbane house is also demonstrating dirt cheap land.

To build that house in CAD you're looking at 750-900k at cost, at a minimum to build.

[UFO]

Traum, I applaud you for your optimism and belief in the system and our politicians.

One thing to note about listening to the demands of the general public; its the same general public that unanimously chose to vote out the largely economically favourable and beneficial HST to 'teach the government a lesson'. So my faith in what the general public wants and its reasons for wanting certain things are considerably lower than many

[Mr.C]

Originally Posted by unit

why live in brisbane when you can swim, ski, and hike in one day!!!

Oh, I dunno.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by UFO

Traum, I applaud you for your optimism and belief in the system and our politicians.

One thing to note about listening to the demands of the general public; its the same general public that unanimously chose to vote out the largely economically favourable and beneficial HST to 'teach the government a lesson'. So my faith in what the general public wants and its reasons for wanting certain things are considerably lower than many

UFO,

I am actually extremely cynical of the system and our politicians. Especially in BC, I hate Crusty and the current Liberals with a passion, and the NDP has been continually proving themselves to be largely ineffective to the point where they almost look invisible.

I agree that the general public doesn't always end up doing / believing the "right thing" -- your HST example precisely proves the point. However, even with the HST debacle, I was glad to see that the margins were sufficiently close, and especially among the pro-HST camp, there was a lot of smart, well-informed, reasonable people pushing for their agenda in a logical, factual manner. In that sense, I know I can at least have more faith in the general public than the politicians. It may take some time to steer the masses towards the "proper" conclusion, but generally speaking, the masses will eventually figure it out.

Getting back to the RE situation at hand, as gloomy as things are looking right now, I will at least say that there are some glimmers of hope on the horizon, with the most recent one being the Bank of Canada governor coming out with a Vancouver + Toronto home prices warning. Going further back, the banks are also realizing the risks involved in the Van-TO markets, and have either taken measures or issued warnings about them. With the banks joining the ranks to call for action, there would have to be some pressure applied on the politicians and levels of government to do more than just half measures.

I just hope there is still enough time, that there would still be a chance for me to afford purchasing my own single detached home instead of simply inheriting my parents rundown bungalow, only to get property taxed to death to the point where I have to sell it.

[4444]

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

Nearly all asset classes are currently inflated IMO, the only exception being bonds, the bond market is going to fucking EXPLODE at the first real sign of economic turmoil.

There will be many deals to be had on Porsches and houses, I think I'll buy both. Maybe Vancouver is super duper special and won't be impacted, and that's okay, I'll just buy something in Palm Springs CA to get my retirement wheels in motion.

Vancouver RE is race horse, ride your winning horse as hard as you can, once he gets hurt nobody wants him, you send him to the glue factory.

all classes are inflated due to the volume of cheap and easy money. bonds are no different.

in europe, people are buying negative rate bonds for the same reason people in vancouver are buying real estate - the expectation of continued capital appreciation.

at some point, over a long period of time, we will have to normalize. this will hit living standards (because we will have to work for what we have rather than just buying it on credit)

at some point the bond market will slowly implode. equity returns will be lower than they have been historically, in many markets real estate will implode. we don't have enough inflation in the developed world through demand, only through money supply - this is a massive problem.

just stay diversified, equities, bonds, real estate, gold (in good allocations) - you can't lose with this as you will always buy low, sell high

[Ludepower]

without 30% down from the parents. Your only chance of owning is waiting for your inheritance.

China money, drug money, real estate industry will keep driving prices up. God help us all.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

Oh great, so we've restored to a Whalley shoebox as examples of affordable housing. See guys there's nothing wrong with housing costs if you don't mind living in the ghetto. You'll even live a healthier lifestyle with all the cardio you'll get while you're being chased by crackheads!

This. It's shocking to me how quickly we feed on each other on a rush to the bottom. People in this thread keep making comments about how "well now Burnaby is a different place", ya we know this, that's a reality, but that change is relatively new, and is one that could have been avoided.

Now we're arguing that families should move into Whalley shitbox for $250k, and that's considered realistic?

This is why I hate this city, we're a bunch of segregated selfish fucks who give a shit about each other. This city has no community, which is so clear why this situation has been able to happen, we're apathetic, we don't hold our government accountable because there is simply no community in this city. It's sad, really. This city has changed so much, and not for the better.

[asian_XL]

Just learned that my neighbour's 30yrs old house was sold 1.7m in Quilchena area.
It was only worth 600k 12 yrs ago! so unreal

[leilomo]

Originally Posted by asian_XL

Just learned that my neighbour's 30yrs old house was sold 1.7m in Quilchena area.
It was only worth 600k 12 yrs ago! so unreal

$1.7M in Quilchena sounds like it's undervalued in today's market...

[westopher]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

This. It's shocking to me how quickly we feed on each other on a rush to the bottom. People in this thread keep making comments about how "well now Burnaby is a different place", ya we know this, that's a reality, but that change is relatively new, and is one that could have been avoided.

Now we're arguing that families should move into Whalley shitbox for $250k, and that's considered realistic?

This is why I hate this city, we're a bunch of segregated selfish fucks who give a shit about each other. This city has no community, which is so clear why this situation has been able to happen, we're apathetic, we don't hold our government accountable because there is simply no community in this city. It's sad, really. This city has changed so much, and not for the better.

I agree for the most part, but don't paint everyone with the same brush. There are some people who genuinely do care about those they have never met.
It's just that we are stuck working 60 hours a week to afford to live here so it makes taking action so hard.

[GLOW]

there are communities as shown by several community centres in vancouver... when the gov't didn't have funds for them to do certain things decades ago they told the communities to group together, fund raise, etc to make it happen for themselves...and they did...and the communities came together to build good community centres/programs, etc. and still do.

in the last few years Vision decided to swoop in and tried to take control with the one-pass and reallocation of funds, etc. fortunately those communities stuck up for themselves and their communities... funny how in the last election the majority of the vancouver parks board who were vision members were not re-elected...unfortunately we could not do the same to moonbeam. i'm glad those community centres tried to create awareness as to what was happening otherwise i wouldn't have known this was happening. i stumbled on to one of those events by accident a couple years back.

Court stops Vancouver park board from evicting dissident community centre associations

[UFO]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

Now we're arguing that families should move into Whalley shitbox for $250k, and that's considered realistic?

Well if families must own, must have 2br 2ba, must live somewhere newer with fancy looking finishes and stainless appliances, and that is their budget, then yes that is realistic. How can you argue otherwise?

While its clear things are overpriced, I'm curious what and where you guys think 250k should buy? 500k?

[asian_XL]

Originally Posted by leilomo

$1.7M in Quilchena sounds like it's undervalued in today's market...

We lived there since elementary school, 400K was the price we purchased. Even my parents are middle class had a tough time paying off the mortgage. I guess I will never live in GVR again

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

This is why I hate this city, we're a bunch of segregated selfish fucks who give a shit about each other. This city has no community, which is so clear why this situation has been able to happen, we're apathetic, we don't hold our government accountable because there is simply no community in this city. It's sad, really. This city has changed so much, and not for the better.

Okay... so what are the pissed off people in this city going to do? Which political party is actively campaigning to bring down housing market? Who do we direct the call to action to? The municipal governments? The province? Federal? Who exactly?

What would you do that would 1. Allow people who want to get in the market to get in and 2. Ensure that people who have bought recently don't go under and 3. Ensure that people nearing retirement who have been banking on the rising equity on their homes to fund their retirement?

I'm personally all ears. Please, I'm waiting for someone to give me a reason to stop my apathy.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by UFO

Why are we talking about new builds or newish builds then? Plenty of units available 10-20yo at more than reasonable prices in good areas for 300-400k, even less, easily affordable for a couple making a very average salary and even for a single.

Do you have an idea what an average household income is?
I'll give you a hint. Its 67000 in Vancouver
A standard rule set by lenders is that your housing shouldn't cost more than 28% of your pre tax income.
$1500 that leaves you for mortgage payments.
That maxes you out at a 350k place, paying the maximum allowable lending amount set by a bank.
Add in your $400 a month condo fees for your poorly managed 25 year old dilapidated building and you are spending 50% of your POST-tax income on just your condo. That leaves you about 2100 a month for transportation, food, entertainment, clothing, MSP, insurance, phone, tv and internet.

But those other things are just entitlement. Why should an average earning person get all those luxuries?

Feel like furthering your education?
Why should you feel like you deserve such a luxury?!

Get injured or sick and can't work?
Too fucking bad, work harder you entitled millennial! You should have saved more money for an emergency even though its completely not possible!


It blows my mind how people don't even care about the world (or our city) being a better place for average individuals.

Again, I'm doing just fine. I'm not some pissed off kid thats mad because he can't get into the game. I'm mad because the game isn't fair for those that didn't have something handed to them.

I'm also mad because people that got lucky feel like those that didn't "just need to work harder and quit complaining."

[kr4l]

^if the average income is $67,000 in Vancouver, and you can't afford a home at a reasonable price of 300-400k now, then please just leave this city because you will never be able to afford a place here, bubble or no bubble, period. People seem to be bitching left and right about this housing market. Yes it sucks. Yes you deserve to raise a family in a house in Vancouver. Yes you work hard and yes it's not fair. But life isn't fair. if you're going to bitch about something, do something about it (not directed to you). Move somewhere else. Raise a family in a 1 bedroom 450 soft condo, do whatever it takes

[westopher]

Originally Posted by kr4l

^if the average income is $67,000 in Vancouver, and you can't afford a home at a reasonable price of 300-400k now, then please just leave this city because you will never be able to afford a place here, bubble or no bubble, period.

The average household income is 67k.
Are you saying that its a reasonable salary to afford a 400k home? Because as I just explained.....its not.

[kr4l]

Then don't buy a 300k-400k home?

Buy something even cheaper. Bet I can find something out there. Won't be glamorous but it's a roof over my head.

But people want new, stainless steel, shit from crate and barrel, swimming pool, strata fee to less than $200 with concierge, big screen tv, $150 phone plans, etc etc

All I'm saying is, live within your means. If your household salary is 67k, you should probably rethink what you're doing as a career if you plan to live a semi luxurious life

Edit: ways to save money. Don't drive. Cancel your data plan, eat out less, stop drinking your crackbucks every morning, cut down on alcoholic beverages and eating out, cut your Telus tv/internet plan etc

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by kr4l

Then don't buy a 300k-400k home?

Buy something even cheaper. Bet I can find something out there. Won't be glamorous but it's a roof over my head.

But people want new, stainless steel, shit from crate and barrel, swimming pool, strata fee to less than $200 with concierge, big screen tv, $150 phone plans, etc etc

All I'm saying is, live within your means. If your household salary is 67k, you should probably rethink what you're doing as a career if you plan to live a semi luxurious life

Edit: ways to save money. Don't drive. Cancel your data plan, eat out less, stop drinking your crackbucks every morning, cut down on alcoholic beverages and eating out, cut your Telus tv/internet plan etc

To be fair, I think the majority of people out there who are seriously worried about buying property likely aren't spending cash on frivolous purchases. There's a reason why I drive a used vehicle, why I buy bulk from Costco, why I don't buy a PS4 or a new flat screen TV. I'm lucky, in the sense that 95% of my purchases I can expense through work (smokes and beer are pretty much the only things I can't expense,) so I'm out very little cash at the end of each month. However, even with that it's still hard for me to justify those housing prices.

I did a MLS search for houses (okay, let's be serious... apartments) in Langley that were between the $200 and 300,000 mark. Each and every one of them were located in a part of town that, frankly, isn't suitable for family living. For an outsider I know they wouldn't know the difference, but for someone who lived there for the better part of 32 years (and still goes back every few weeks), I would never willingly spend that amount of cash to live within a specific set of city blocks.

Originally Posted by kr4l

^if the average income is $67,000 in Vancouver, and you can't afford a home at a reasonable price of 300-400k now, then please just leave this city because you will never be able to afford a place here, bubble or no bubble, period.

$67000 used to be more than sufficient to buy even higher end homes in Vancouver, not to mention the other parts of the GVRD.

Originally Posted by kr4l

People seem to be bitching left and right about this housing market. Yes it sucks. Yes you deserve to raise a family in a house in Vancouver. Yes you work hard and yes it's not fair. But life isn't fair. if you're going to bitch about something, do something about it (not directed to you). Move somewhere else. Raise a family in a 1 bedroom 450 soft condo, do whatever it takes

Have you tried raising a family in a one bedroom, 450 square foot condo? Yeah, doesn't work. And sometimes moving somewhere else isn't feasible because you know what Canada has a real lack of, apart from affordable housing? Legitimate work hubs around the country. And the areas where there are plenty of jobs also share equally expensive property.

[kr4l]

@lomac

I did a super quick MLS search for Richmond and tonnes of properties show up and ridiculously low prices (150k - 200k) they're ugly, but a roof is a roof.

And $67k USED to be sufficient. Gotta get with the times.

I don't have a family because I'm not ready for it. I'll start one when I'm financially ready. If you're not, don't start a family. If it happens, congrats but start living a different life than you are now. Sacrifices need to be made.

My dad emigrated here in the 70's with the cloths on his back, wife and 2 kids. He put a roof on our head and food on the table. He made things work. We also lived in less than 450 sqft. He and my mom both worked 2 - 3 jobs and sacrificed everything for us. If you can't make it work, then you're not trying hard enough.

Edit: I understand everyone's frustrations and concerns about the housing market. I'm not trying to play devils advocate and say "too bad so sad", but bitxhing is not going to change a thing. Well, it might and the bubble might burst, but then people will end up bitching about something else, like why they aren't getting paid xx amount for doing there job, minimum wage, probably the housing market and what's available. The bitxhing won't stop

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by Lomac

$67000 used to be more than sufficient to buy even higher end homes in Vancouver, not to mention the other parts of the GVRD.

That's not really true. The qualifying rules for a mortgage haven't changed much over the past years and interest rates have historically been higher.

Today, a $67k income qualifies you to borrow about $300k given interest rates just over 2%; the average Vancouver detached home sells for $1.8M.

10 years ago, interest rates were about 6% and a $67k income qualified you for a $200k mortgage while the average detached home sold for $900K.

Housing prices have gone absolutely insane, but my point is simply that if your household only earns $67k, you have not been in any contention to buy a house in Vancouver for many decades, let alone "higher end homes". There has been a disconnect between earnings and house pricing for many years in prime areas of Vancouver, it's just that this recent explosion has pushed it out to all the suburbs as well.

Mark

Sources:
http://www.ratehub.ca/prime-mortgage-rate-history
http://www.news1130.com/wp-content/b...2/02/rebgv.jpg

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by westopher

I'm also mad because people that got lucky feel like those that didn't "just need to work harder and quit complaining."

This sums things up pretty well, those who bought in at the right time and are enjoying all the inflated money their house has gained don't want the good times to end, so they tell everyone else to suck it up and deal with it because this is the new normal. So pretty much "don't fuck this up for me just accept that Whalley is good enough for you, if you want stainless steel work harder".

Let's not try and find out why housing is rising at an insanely unreasonable rate, let's just say that your wage that would normally afford much more is only good enough for a piece of shit apartment. "Hey my daddy worked 20 hours a day and wasn't present in my life so neither should you for your kid suck it up buttercup."

[buhdeh]

Originally Posted by Liquid_o2

Sense of entitlement for Burnaby? When did it become Malibu Beach? Was it before or after they renovated the White Spot?

lmao