Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[MarkyMark]

These affordable units are the equivalent to a door crasher TV on boxing day, everyone lines up and leaves disappointed.

[fliptuner]

Trudeau to hold roundtable discussion on local housing crisis - NEWS 1130

While on the Lower Mainland, the prime minister will be spending some of his time talking about one of the region’s favourite topics: housing prices. To get the conversation going Justin Trudeau will be holding a roundtable discussion on Friday.

He says addressing this has to involve all three levels of government, just like the plan he’s announced for transit improvements. “That will involve the kind of collaboration that we’ve shown already on so many different files. This is an issue that is deeply, deeply relevant to folks here in the Lower Mainland and we hear that and we’re on it.”

The federal finance minister has already promised a major investigation into what is propelling the unreachable prices here and what can be done about it.

[Digitalis]

Unless they doubled the price I wouldn't call it unaffordable.

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

These affordable units are the equivalent to a door crasher TV on boxing day, everyone lines up and leaves disappointed.

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by Digitalis

Unless they doubled the price I wouldn't call it unaffordable.

When I went to look at a new townhouse build in Langley they advertised it as "starting from the mid 300's". The first phase sold out before they even opened the showroom, and by then there was one unit that was about 420, but the rest were over 450.

So it still may be affordable to some but it's sure as hell nowhere near what they advertise. But what are we complaining about, its easier to just say "well I drove by this place and it said mid 300s, dat unaffordability doe".

As long as their are 300k 500 sq ft shitholes in Surrey we should all stop bitching and feel blessed to be allowed to live here though.

[Hondaracer]

If you're interested in a unit or project, how about doing your due diligence and getting on the preview/pre-sale/VIP list and showing interest/securing your position to buy?

As opposed to showing up the day or week somthing opens and bitching about units being gone? This is the climate we're in. Sorry if you have to send off a few emails and put in an hour of work to put yourself into a position to buy.

[MarkyMark]

Calm down I wasn't actually planning on buying but I'm interested in the area for next year so I figured I'd do my due diligence and see how the units looked and how true the prices were as well as the demand for them. How's that for being lazy?

But yes, I'm looking forward to camping out a few days early next year just to beat out the people who want to buy a presale and flip it.

[heleu]

Vancouver developers shutting out regular buyers with insider condo sales - The Globe and Mail

Wow. I guess I knew this was happening, but still disturbing. And I've worked with Magnum in the past too.

Major condo developers in Vancouver are shutting out average buyers by selling their most affordable new units privately – to clients of select realtors and “family and friends” – before their advertised sale dates, The Globe and Mail has learned.

The typical sales contracts also allow those insiders to legally flip the units under construction (known as presale) before closing as long as the developer gets a cut from that transaction. Like shadow flipping with houses, flips of presale condos have been controversial in Vancouver. When supply is scarce and prices are escalating, flipping leaves buyers who want units to live in feeling ripped off or shut out.

Several realtors told The Globe deals with insiders are widespread and quietly encouraged by developers. In Vancouver’s wildly expensive market, it is yet another obstacle for people who feel the deck is stacked against them.

Mike Yeung would like to sell his small condo and buy a new one, but said he has encountered nothing but frustration. He said he worries some developers and realtors are withholding inventory from the public to drive up prices and profits.

“At two presale events, I was there in person,” Mr. Yeung said. “Each time, I was informed that all the studio and all one-bedroom condos were already sold out … to the developer’s family and friends.”

Eager buyers camp out in lineups for hours or days before the sales events. Thousands also sign up online to get “VIP” access, only to find out on opening day they had no chance. Several have said they were then invited to buy something more expensive.

“It’s shady and not forthright,” Mr. Yeung said. “It’s a bait and switch – to get you in the door.”

Michelle Ly said she recently tried to buy into several developments.

“Everything in the one-bedroom or one-bedroom-and-den range was gone well before the official presale started,” she said.

“It’s super misleading and it wastes my time. My realtor and I would spend weeks trying to get information out of the developer, signing up for all the newsletters and touching base with their marketing people every other week. I felt bad for people waiting in line for days.”

Two developments were recently promoted by Rennie Marketing Systems, owned by Vancouver’s most politically connected condo marketer, Bob Rennie, an outspoken advocate for increasing supply to cool the market.

Realtor Steve Saretsky contacted Rennie staff recently and said he was told most of the units in The Ellsworth, a new low-rise building in East Vancouver, have already gone to family and friends of the developer. When sales opened Monday at 8X on the Park, also marketed by Rennie, Mr. Saretsky said all the studio and one-bedroom units had been sold privately.

“I think we are being deceived,” he said. “I think it’s giving local people a false hope – that if we keep building and building and building, it’s going to help them to find a home.”

Mr. Rennie said developers advertise to the public as a sort of fallback policy. If the insiders who get first dibs do not buy enough units, they can sell what is left to the next tier of interested buyers.

“Nobody knows whether the person saying they want the studio will take the studio,” Mr. Rennie said.

Mr. Rennie said 3,500 people expressed interest in just 89 units at The Ellsworth, including the realtors and other insiders. As a result of The Globe’s inquiries, he said he now thinks all would-be-buyers should be told what they are up against.

“From talking this through, I think once you get to a certain level of registrants, we should tell people,” Mr. Rennie said. “I am going to suggest that [to developer-clients].”

Developer Magnum Projects, owned by George Wong, promoted its units in recent e-mails by telling the public, “You are eligible for our jump-the-queue program, allowing priority preview, best selection, and prelaunch pricing.” Interested buyers who signed up later received another e-mail saying: “Studios and 1 bedrooms have been spoken for by the stakeholders, family and friends involved in this development.”

The company did not reply to The Globe’s requests for comment.

A spokesperson for Cressey, which built Kings Crossing in Burnaby, confirmed every one of the units in the first tower was sold privately to clients of select realtors, despite promotions to the public beforehand.

Mr. Saretsky and other agents said many buyers with exclusive access are speculators with no intention of living in the units. The contracts usually stipulate if the property is flipped within a set period, the developer takes a cut. Developers put that provision in their contracts several years ago to prevent speculators from flipping new condos and keeping all the profits.

For example, Mr. Saretsky said, one developer he is familiar with takes a cut of 5 per cent of the original sales price. On a condo that costs $750,000 – a typical price for one-bedroom units in luxury buildings – a flip would earn that builder an extra $37,500 without taking any risk, because the property is no longer its financial responsibility.

These types of flips are done by contract assignment, where the original buyer sells the contract to another buyer before closing. B.C. has brought in new rules that limit the practice for single-family homes, but condo presales are exempt.

Toronto realtor Andrew la Fleur said condos are selling out to insiders in that hot market, too. He said he is one of the few agents whose clients get first crack at properties before the public. He estimates 95 per cent to 100 per cent of new condos are sold to insiders that way.

“I think the public is just unfortunately misinformed or uneducated,” Mr. la Fleur said. “Those of us in the industry can see this coming a mile away and we know how to get our clients in at an opportune time.”

However, he said he does not think most units in Toronto will be flipped, because condo prices are not increasing in that city like they are in Vancouver.

[MarkyMark]

I guess I'll add 'date the developers daughter' to my list of due diligence.

[GLOW]

that's where having the right realtor gets you in where you need to be.

[Tapioca]

Unless the location and the home are really unique, I would stay away from new builds. You'll have to deal with deficiencies for the first 1-2 years and a strata that will take a couple of years to understand how the complex works and what it actually costs to maintain the property.

For a condo, the sweet spot is 3-5 years old. For a townhouse, I would say that anything built since 2000 is very similar in construction and layout. Most buildings have been rainscreened since 2002, I believe. The only other major difference I've seen are fewer and fewer newer units with gas lines.

[Hondaracer]

Yea no gas sucks...

Also with older townhomes you may still get central air. Where as anything built in the past 8-10 you're probably looking at strictly baseboard heat

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Yea no gas sucks...

Also with older townhomes you may still get central air. Where as anything built in the past 8-10 you're probably looking at strictly baseboard heat

I never liked baseboard heating - expensive and unsightly. I had it for 8 years and it was never sufficient to heat a condo with floor-to-ceiling windows. Baseboards are cheap to install though and these days, developers have to cut corners to make a buck especially in a multi-family unit. I've seen some new detached houses with baseboard heating and that's unacceptable.

Gas is great... just got to make sure you have carbon monoxide detectors around.

[Hondaracer]

With the new building code introductions central air is going to be the norm again. Good for owners, nightmare for builders lol

[kr4l]

Originally Posted by GLOW

that's where having the right realtor gets you in where you need to be.

I wouldn't call it the right realtor per se, but the right connections can get you things before anyone else. That's a fact of life

[6thGear.]

Originally Posted by kr4l

I wouldn't call it the right realtor per se, but the right connections can get you things before anyone else. That's a fact of life

This. Its also not a new thing for developers to sell units privately. They have been doing this for a years. Sometimes even the sales manager will hold for family and friends.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by 6thGear.

This. Its also not a new thing for developers to sell units privately. They have been doing this for a years. Sometimes even the sales manager will hold for family and friends.

Sounds like tickets for high-profile sporting events (not the Canucks, lol) and concerts!

[4444]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Yea no gas sucks...

Also with older townhomes you may still get central air. Where as anything built in the past 8-10 you're probably looking at strictly baseboard heat

speaking of heating - why does the west coast not utilize european style wall heaters? I believe they're used in the north east US/Canada?

I find they are really effective (especially when you get triple layer ones) - cannot speak to efficiency (but they're run off of the central boiler, so I assume they can be efficient) but am interested if anyone knows the reason why.

Personally, i've never liked forced air heating, and absolutely hate electric baseboard heating

[quasi]

Originally Posted by 4444

speaking of heating - why does the west coast not utilize european style wall heaters? I believe they're used in the north east US/Canada?

I find they are really effective (especially when you get triple layer ones) - cannot speak to efficiency (but they're run off of the central boiler, so I assume they can be efficient) but am interested if anyone knows the reason why.

Personally, i've never liked forced air heating, and absolutely hate electric baseboard heating

As in Radiant baseboard heating? I have that in my house, my last place also had radiant but in floor. I prefer forced air because I least have the option for AC but it wasn't a deal breaker for me either way.

[Nlkko]

I have gas heater built in. Fucking nice in the winter, place is like Hawaii. I can open the door & windows to get fresh air in.

Dirt cheap too.

[4444]

interesting - how come they aren't standard in new builds?

I have wall mount radiators as standard in all rooms, and underfloor in my bathroom (toasty toes = heaven in winter)

living in europe, AC's less of a need - it's never that hot

[4444]

Originally Posted by quasi

As in Radiant baseboard heating?

right, but euro/british style ones are much taller than just baseboard, say 3 -4 feet tall (depending on application)

[lilaznviper]

anyone hear about the development by concord pacific for units under 500k they will pay some of your mortgage and must be age 19-35? any info on that price range on what you will get?

[Traum]

Originally Posted by lilaznviper

anyone hear about the development by concord pacific for units under 500k they will pay some of your mortgage and must be age 19-35? any info on that price range on what you will get?

This is as much as I know:

Developer offers discounts on starter apartments - British Columbia - CBC News

[heleu]

HVAC engineer here.

Electric Baseboards = Cheapest first cost. You still see them in 95% condos. No maintenance, cheap to fix too.

Euro style hydronic (hot water) baseboards are at least 10X the price to install.

Forced air (furnaces, fan coils) are becoming more popular, but still limited to more premium apartments.

In the last 5 years, a lot of cities have gone with district energy - e.g. Richmond, Lonsdale, False Creek; basically, you are forced to go with a water-type system so that the city can sell heating to you. You'll see a lot more hydronic base board and fan coil type systems going forward in the denser areas.

[Nlkko]

I have lived in a fan coil heating condo. And hate it because there's always this draft of air going around that you can't control (unless you turn it off and freeze your balls off).

Furnace (gas heating) is my top preference. You can control the air (by closing the window/door). Cost almost nothing. If the place come with gas stove top too

Baseboard is just $$$$$$ to not freeze your ass off. Guys who rent know there are cheaper place that offer free baseboard heating that always turn the shit down to minimum in the winter so your unit is cold as fuck and you'd have to buy extra portable electric heater which is $$$$ and takes up spaces.