Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[Gumby]

With regards to the new foreign property tax, I understand that the government wants to cool down the housing market.

However, having it go into effect in 8 days, right after the long-weekend, is such a poorly planned policy.

[ImportPsycho]

Originally Posted by twdm

BC brings in 15% property tax for foreign buyers - NEWS 1130
No significant foreign money amiright?
Well don't mind the 15% transfer tax

I don't get it.
Few weeks ago, they released data saying foreign buyer is non-issue as % is so small,
B.C. releases first set of data on foreign home ownership in Vancouver - The Globe and Mail

Now they are saying they'll tax those small irrelevant percentages, thus having zero impact on house crisis?

Doesn't all foreign investors use their family names in Canada, anyway?


Nice try....

[Rallydrv]

^ yeh,, why not,

elections are coming up.. at least they can say

"see u all complained about foreign money.. see we heard u"

[UFO]

Originally Posted by ImportPsycho

I don't get it.

Not much to get. You can call it a smoke screen really. Gov wants to make it look like they are implementing seemingly big measures to appease the locals, without actually upsetting the flow of money. No different from Gregor's planned occupancy tax, it's so hard to monitor and easy to evade it's pointless.

Of all the things we've read about how foreign money is 'legally' brought, all the elaborate involvement of the supposedly regulated governing bodies, banks, brokers, etc etc, you think these new extreme regulations will produce any actual stumbling blocks to would be buyers?

If/when these are regulations are easily sidestepped and cash from this tax is not as much as anticipated, the gov can say 'see we told you all that foreign buyers were such a small and insignificant percentage...'

[Mr.Money]

Originally Posted by Special K

It would be interesting to see how this turns out in the next 6-12 months. How easy would it be to find loopholes to recruit a "relative" or "friend"?

Where is the tax money going??

What about a foreign national selling tax? Grab some money while we are at it.

wont detour organized crime who gathers 1000s of people to bring over 100k in cash each in their luggage (China,Japan) & the government asking no questions in yearly income from the wealthy Canadian with 2 million dollars bought in real estate with illicit funds,they get their 15% cut so its gonna be even more hush hush....whats stopping the seller from adding 15% to cover his own profits now too when he flips the house

How Hard is it to set up a company that looks legit in Asia and wire transfer millions of dirty money Clean to them with a Fake invoice they charged this amount for Service they made up and spent??.....I don't think the canadian goverment is strict on that like the IRS in USA.

Chinese government doesn't give a shit either,They'll take their cut for any housing sales overseas here avoiding Law...money is power,Somebody is getting paid off.

[Carl Johnson]

The first comment from Globe & Mail pretty much sums it up:

Horses left the barn long ago. This tax is five years too late.

If you are renting and are hoping this news will break the real estate bull market, it won't. My suggestion is to buy and stop being a renter if you plan to stay in Vancouver for the long haul. 2008 style crash will not happen in Canada when our banks are incredibly resilient.
Horses left the barn long ago. This tax is five years too late.Horses left the barn long ago. This tax is five years too late.


Horses left the barn long ago. This tax is five years too late.

[Tapioca]

The tax may have some sort of impact on the market, but its effects will take a while to be felt.

It's not a panacea and no, a Vancouver special in East Vancouver will never be 500K again.

[wingies]

Originally Posted by UFO

Gov wants to make it look like they are implementing seemingly big measures to appease the locals, without actually upsetting the flow of money.'

This

[320icar]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

Try to be a little open minded and don't put your GF down for asking the banks.
In fact, I think she has more of a level head than you.
$110K combined income. I am guessing around $6K take home per month.
You should easily be able to be pre-aproved for a $500K mortgage as long as you 2 don't have any debts.
That is about $2500 per month for mortgage payments over 25 years at 4%.

Not sure what areas you *have* to live in but moving out to Port Moody/PoCo opens up a lot of options for you to buy a decently sized town house.

There are still affordable options out there if you are willing to settle.

Take a look at what your needs are and how much you are paying per month in rent.

You are correct. We went to a financial advisor last week to weigh out my options. She has no debts and I have about ~13k or so left on my focus. We'd like to go into Langley near the truck crossing or peace arch. Something on a main vein so I can be in and out of Richmond as fast as possible (all our family and work is in Richmond). We checked out some townhouses being built, range from ~550 to 750k taxes in.

Pre approved for about 550,000 but with no downpayment were still about 5 years out. We work hard for our money and I like to enjoy life. But i guess it's what priorities you have and what you really want. We could buckle down and save about 50k in 3 years (while still living lol) if our expenses stayed the same. Though our families don't have any money we can borrow to put down as a DP.

I remember reading somewhere the percent of people in metro van that get gifted or lent money from families to buy a home is up at 80%, where as the rest of Canada was around 30%. I imagine Toronto would be somewhat similar to us tho

[Ludepower]

Cash rules everything around me.
Everyone turns a blind eye when its slipped into your pocket.
A piece of pie for everyone.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Gumby

With regards to the new foreign property tax, I understand that the government wants to cool down the housing market.

However, having it go into effect in 8 days, right after the long-weekend, is such a poorly planned policy.

I'm going to list my condo for 14% above market value for the next week haha.

[Timpo]

Vancouver’s foreign-buyer tax draws criticism from housing experts
ALEXANDRA POSADZKI
The Canadian Press
Published Monday, Jul. 25, 2016 8:31PM EDT
Last updated Monday, Jul. 25, 2016 8:33PM EDT

Vancouver?s foreign-buyer tax draws criticism from housing experts - The Globe and Mail


B.C. Premier Christy Clark and Finance Minister Michael de Jong discuss amendments regarding housing issues in Greater Vancouver during a press conference on July 25, 2016.
(CHAD HIPOLITO/THE CANADIAN PRESS)

A tax intended to calm soaring real estate prices in Vancouver may be difficult to enforce because the foreign homebuyers it’s aimed at may be able to get around it, experts say.

The B.C. government’s plans to tackle housing affordability in Metro Vancouver with a 15-per-cent tax for foreign buyers came under scrutiny Monday from housing-market observers.

Foreign nationals could avoid the tax, which would take effect on Aug. 2, by purchasing properties through locals – something that is already suspected to be common practice.

“I would be very surprised to see a lot of people buying houses as foreign individuals or foreign corporations,” said Thomas Davidoff, a professor at the Sauder School of Business at the University of British Columbia.

“The question is, will buyers be able to successfully … hide their identity by having a local permanent resident, a local corporation or a local family member who is a citizen through which they can funnel cash?”

Josh Gordon, an assistant professor at Simon Fraser University who has studied the issue, said it’s common for money made overseas to flow into Vancouver’s real estate market through local residents – for example, a foreign national purchasing a home through a spouse or a child attending a Canadian university.

“Canadian permanent residents can buy properties as proxy buyers and they won’t be subject to this tax, because they won’t be considered foreign buyers,” Mr. Gordon said.

Rather than charging a tax to foreign nationals, Mr. Davidoff said he would have preferred to see a policy that provides tax breaks to homebuyers who can demonstrate they’re paying local income taxes.

“Why drag nationality in when the real question is, ‘Are you a local worker?’” he said.

A number of other jurisdictions have imposed rules restricting foreign investment in their real estate markets, including Hong Kong, Singapore and Australia.

In a report published earlier this year, CIBC economist Benjamin Tal said it was too soon to say whether Australia’s rules – which were implemented in last summer and restrict foreigners to newly built houses and apartments – are having the desired impact.

“But there are some early signs from Australia showing that it’s working,” Mr. Tal said, noting that the share of foreign nationals in new housing demand has fallen.

Mr. Gordon said data from other jurisdictions suggests that taxing foreign investment can help cool housing markets by slowing, and sometimes even reversing, price growth.

“But in terms of achieving affordability, substantially reducing prices, generally speaking these types of surtaxes don’t get you there,” he said.

Complicating matters is the fact that it’s hard to assess whether any particular price movement was the result of the tax policy or some other factor, Mr. Davidoff said.

“It’s very hard to hold all else constant in a major city,” he said.

[4444]

Originally Posted by Harvey Specter

The question is do people really want to the RE bubble to burst? Think about the consequences and all the jobs in BC that are linked to RE that will be lost.

there's two ways to look at this:

1) keep status quo, keep all the real estate and related jobs
2) consider the consequence current costs are having on new business coming to vancouver.

read a headline to a forbes article stating the three most expensive places to open an office (in North America): 1) New York 2) San Fran 3) Vancouver.

i didn't read the article, but cannot imagine Vancouver being 3 makes sense.

a bubble cannot live on forever, regardless of all those who say it can and will. if it is because of an outside force, government will change rules (today we saw step 1 of this, more will come when the ndp is voted in), people's perceptions will change, sentiment can swing quickly.

it's a proverbial and literal house of cards.

[Ch28]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

Try to be a little open minded and don't put your GF down for asking the banks.
In fact, I think she has more of a level head than you.
$110K combined income. I am guessing around $6K take home per month.
You should easily be able to be pre-aproved for a $500K mortgage as long as you 2 don't have any debts.
That is about $2500 per month for mortgage payments over 25 years at 4%.

Not sure what areas you *have* to live in but moving out to Port Moody/PoCo opens up a lot of options for you to buy a decently sized town house.

There are still affordable options out there if you are willing to settle.

Take a look at what your needs are and how much you are paying per month in rent.

Friend moved out to PoCo in a newly developed area of row homes and it's actually not too bad. He's right off the highway and his entire 3 floor town house only cost ~320k. Depending on where you're looking at, you can't even get a condo for that price.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Ch28

Friend moved out to PoCo in a newly developed area of row homes and it's actually not too bad. He's right off the highway and his entire 3 floor town house only cost ~320k. Depending on where you're looking at, you can't even get a condo for that price.

Is your friend's townhouse by the Pitt River Bridge and the Mary Hill? If so, that's Fremont Village.

Townhouses at Fremont haven't been 320K in several years. When Mosaic built the first phase in 2010/2011, I believe they were priced from the 330s. They are now pushing into the 600s.

The area is slowly developing, but if you rely on the highway for your commute, it's not bad at all.

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

Is your friend's townhouse by the Pitt River Bridge and the Mary Hill? If so, that's Fremont Village.

Townhouses at Fremont haven't been 320K in several years. When Mosaic built the first phase in 2010/2011, I believe they were priced from the 330s. They are now pushing into the 600s.

Agree - the cheapest newish (like 5-7 years old) row style townhouses in Poco now are still $500K+. The ones in PoMo where I live are now $750-$850K for 1400 square feet. You can't buy a new townhouse even in Pitt Meadows let alone Port Coquitlam for $320K.

Mark

[Hondaracer]

paying 700+ for 1400sq ft of all stairs is so fucking gross :/

but hey, you get some shitty, low-end stainless appliances and cheap garbage quartz counters!

[G]

If the company is owned by foreign investors or foreigners then it will still be taxed accordingly.

So if a shell company is incorporated but the owners are foreigners, then it will still be taxed. If 2 out of the 4 owners are foreigners, then 50% of their deal will be taxed the 15%. But.... with this being said, i'm not sure how they are tracking this stuff...

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by lowside67

Agree - the cheapest newish (like 5-7 years old) row style townhouses in Poco now are still $500K+. The ones in PoMo where I live are now $750-$850K for 1400 square feet. You can't buy a new townhouse even in Pitt Meadows let alone Port Coquitlam for $320K.

Mark

The "Klahanie" tax.

Living down there is nice, no doubt about that.

Rowhomes aren't bad. It's actually a very practical housing type. The stairs actually don't take much square footage. There's just 2 of them, which can be a pain if you don't have a bathroom on the main level.

[fliptuner]

Tricities sucks. Lougheed and MHB are always backed up and you'll be surrounded by rednecks and pig farm.

Langley and Burnaby are much better

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

The "Klahanie" tax.

Living down there is nice, no doubt about that.

Rowhomes aren't bad. It's actually a very practical housing type. The stairs actually don't take much square footage. There's just 2 of them, which can be a pain if you don't have a bathroom on the main level.

the thing with newer townhomes is they have all the living space UP stairs.. a lot of the older townhomes where they didnt have such a premium on space had their main floor at ground level, then the "basement" or lower level was a seperate ground level rear entry

now everyone just has the ground level garage then up to the main floor and up to bed rooms etc.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by fliptuner

Tricities sucks. Lougheed and MHB are always backed up and you'll be surrounded by rednecks and pig farm.

Langley and Burnaby are much better

College Park or Glenayre in PoMo are actually very underrated in terms of location. The Barnet Highway itself is not too busy, so you never have to go through the clusterfuck that is Barnet and Lougheed.

[fliptuner]

Originally Posted by lowside67

Agree - the cheapest newish (like 5-7 years old) row style townhouses in Poco now are still $500K+. The ones in PoMo where I live are now $750-$850K for 1400 square feet. You can't buy a new townhouse even in Pitt Meadows let alone Port Coquitlam for $320K.

Mark

Here's one:
https://www.locatehomes.ca/bc-real-e...5?id=262116013

LOLOLOLOL

A unit like this makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever, unless you love stairs.

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

The "Klahanie" tax.

Living down there is nice, no doubt about that.

Rowhomes aren't bad. It's actually a very practical housing type. The stairs actually don't take much square footage. There's just 2 of them, which can be a pain if you don't have a bathroom on the main level.

For the record... we live in Klahanie but opted for a ground level apartment in one of the low rise buildings instead. I really wish I had my own garage, but the valuation difference between our 1000sqft 2BR/2BA ground floor walkout with 2 parking and a locker and a 1400sqft 3BR/2.5BA townhouse is between $250-$300K. For that, I think the apartment makes much more sense.

Mark

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by fliptuner

Here's one:
https://www.locatehomes.ca/bc-real-e...5?id=262116013

LOLOLOLOL

A unit like this makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever.

I think it will sell for dramatically higher than that. We were looking at those specific units when we bought in Port Moody and they were already mid 400s last year in terms of actual sale price.

Mark