Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[Tapioca]

The average person should ideally have a home and a mixture of equities and bonds/cash.

The problem is that the cost of housing in most parts of the developed world has now come at the cost of saving for retirement and rainy days.

Even if you bought something at the peak of the market (say this month), I wouldn't worry too much as long as you can afford the carrying costs of your property. If you have a 5-year fixed mortgage, that should be a sufficient amount of time for the market to adjust. Even though banks will likely be much stingier now about who they lend money to, I think low interest rates are here to stay in the medium term.

[MarkyMark]

Who's more entitled anyways, someone who missed the boat on housing before it skyrocketed and is now bitching about it, or the people who bought in at the right time and feel that their place jumping up 30+% in a couple years was all their doing and no one should fuck with their pretend money?

[Tapioca]

Coveting thy neighbour?s house

This opinion piece pretty much sums up what most people who grew up in Vancouver in detached homes are feeling and dealing with.

[meme405]

Originally Posted by westopher

Yeah because only entitled degenerate losers think a reasonably priced place to live is realistic right?

That was a big stab. Mostly to get a laugh, but there is some truth to be said about it. The fact is this, people like to claim that housing is not an investment and that everyone deserves a place to live. Absolutely, there is nobody in this world that can deny that everyone deserves a place to call home and part of that definition of "home" involves having a roof over your head.

Unfortunately nobody said that anyone is entitled to afford a roof in Vancouver.

There are plenty of places in BC which people can move to and can afford reasonable housing costs.

The next point most people will point out would be well what if they have to be in vancouver for their jobs. Well the then those individuals will likely have to enjoy a crappy commute, the fact is that this problem exists in dozens of other markets, New York coming to mind, since I have friends who can't afford to live in NY and therefore have to commute from NJ.

I don't proclaim to know the solution to our little dilemma here, but I just find it laughable that people would willingly support the government in actively driving down prices in our RE market.

It seems ass backward, our governments job is to create an atmosphere where individuals can prosper and create wealth, and creating a major hurdle for our economy, seems completely a step in the wrong direction in this regard. I mean it would take one of the only major parts of our current economy which is actually doing well and completely decimate it.

I don't know this was just a stumbling of my own thoughts, I think the tax on foreign buyers is a step in the right direction, I absolutely believe that someone who isn't a resident or citizen who comes here and buys a house needs to pay a big piece of tax on that purchase. However I am terrified at how far others are willing to take this idea of slowing down RE prices. I have friends who are willingly wanting the government to seize back houses from all non-residents and sell them on the open market. I am sorry but that's ridiculous.



With all of the above written diarrhea out of the way. I'd be interested in seeing a couple things:

1. The number of owners to non-owners posting here.
2. Which side of the fence those people land on: Government intervening or Let the market do what it does.
3. If you are for the government doing something do you believe the current path they have taken (15% on foreign purchases) is an adequate one.

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

Who's more entitled anyways, someone who missed the boat on housing before it skyrocketed and is now bitching about it, or the people who bought in at the right time and feel that their place jumping up 30+% in a couple years was all their doing and no one should fuck with their pretend money?

And what about the guy who just closed a couple months ago, and now the prices tank, what happens to him? He wasnt a greedy asshole, just an unfortunate loser. I'm not saying prices settling down is a bad thing as you so imply that all of us owners are. I am against the notion that the values of people's houses (people who in many cases worked very hard to be able to afford that house) should be reduced to fucking rubble just so that someone who failed to work hard or plan, or just had bad luck, can afford a house.

[Great68]

Originally Posted by meme405

That was a big stab. Mostly to get a laugh, but there is some truth to be said about it. The fact is this, people like to claim that housing is not an investment and that everyone deserves a place to live. Absolutely, there is nobody in this world that can deny that everyone deserves a place to call home and part of that definition of "home" involves having a roof over your head.

Unfortunately nobody said that anyone is entitled to afford a roof in Vancouver.

There are plenty of places in BC which people can move to and can afford reasonable housing costs.

The next point most people will point out would be well what if they have to be in vancouver for their jobs. Well the then those individuals will likely have to enjoy a crappy commute, the fact is that this problem exists in dozens of other markets, New York coming to mind, since I have friends who can't afford to live in NY and therefore have to commute from NJ.

I don't proclaim to know the solution to our little dilemma here, but I just find it laughable that people would willingly support the government in actively driving down prices in our RE market.

It seems ass backward, our governments job is to create an atmosphere where individuals can prosper and create wealth, and creating a major hurdle for our economy, seems completely a step in the wrong direction in this regard. I mean it would take one of the only major parts of our current economy which is actually doing well and completely decimate it.

I don't know this was just a stumbling of my own thoughts, I think the tax on foreign buyers is a step in the right direction, I absolutely believe that someone who isn't a resident or citizen who comes here and buys a house needs to pay a big piece of tax on that purchase. However I am terrified at how far others are willing to take this idea of slowing down RE prices. I have friends who are willingly wanting the government to seize back houses from all non-residents and sell them on the open market. I am sorry but that's ridiculous.



With all of the above written diarrhea out of the way. I'd be interested in seeing a couple things:

1. The number of owners to non-owners posting here.
2. Which side of the fence those people land on: Government intervening or Let the market do what it does.
3. If you are for the government doing something do you believe the current path they have taken (15% on foreign purchases) is an adequate one.

Good points.
Even in my 20's when I lived in Vancouver before the massive boom I had no expectation that I could afford a SFH in Vancouver or it's immediate suburbs (Richmond, Burnaby, North Van). I fully expected to be moving into a condo or commuting out to PoCo or something like that.

I'm supportive of the government taking small steps to level off the market a bit, back to historical yearly increases, not this crazy 30% a year bullshit. But I'm very against forced downward pressure on prices.

[Hondaracer]

Manhattan, the island itself, has a population of 1.626 million people

Population of Vancouver is 600,000

for the most part, the prices are very comparable:

415 Main St Apt 10 B, New York City, NY 10044 - Home For Sale and Real Estate Listing - realtor.com®

[Insert the "Vancouver isnt a worldly city like New York is" Comment]

Given What i know, and my lifestyle, in comparable prices i'm still sticking in Vancouver.

People probably commute in far greater numbers into Manhattan than they do to Vancouver, probably for a longer time/distance as well.

Same goes for Toronto, similar pricing, if not slightly cheaper, but also has a far larger metropolitan area.

I think some people in this thread seem to not be able to just simply wrap their heads around the idea that people WANT to be here..

No one i know has moved away.. No one i know whether they rent or own is talking about moving away, even people who have problems finding work or dont have much in terms of job security.

it's a minority who leave the lower mainland, and there's plenty of people waiting to take their spot

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Manhattan, the island itself, has a population of 1.626 million people

Population of Vancouver is 600,000

for the most part, the prices are very comparable:

415 Main St Apt 10 B, New York City, NY 10044 - Home For Sale and Real Estate Listing - realtor.com®

[Insert the "Vancouver isnt a worldly city like New York is" Comment]

LOL the ad you posted is of a place located on Roosevelt Island. Which, although part of the Borough of Manhattan, is only accessible by aerial tram and subway to Manhattan and by road from Queens. I doubt you can find a place like that in Manhattan proper for that price.

Interestingly enough there's a place in Manhattan where you can buy a SFH. It's called Marble Hill and though it's geographically located in the Bronx, it's politically part of Manhattan due to a quirk of history/geography.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marble_Hill,_Manhattan

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

LOL the ad you posted is of a place located on Roosevelt Island. Which, although part of the Borough of Manhattan, is only accessible by aerial tram and subway to Manhattan and by road from Queens. I doubt you can find a place like that in Manhattan proper for that price.

Interestingly enough there's a place in Manhattan where you can buy a SFH. It's called Marble Hill and though it's geographically located in the Bronx, it's politically part of Manhattan due to a quirk of history/geography.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marble_Hill,_Manhattan

here's one a little better, 2 blocks off central park, 1 bed 1 bath bachelor, 1 mill

69 West 9th Street, New York, NY 10011 | Sotheby's International Realty, Inc.

1 mill USD = 1.31 CAD currently

you gotta be a big time fucking yuppy to buy that for a mill lol fuck... although:

First offering in more than fifty years of this sunny mid-century modern one bedroom estate.

lol

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by westopher

Yeah because only entitled degenerate losers think a reasonably priced place to live is realistic right?

What is "a reasonably priced place to live"?
Basic need is shelter. One could always rent.

I'll use CivicBlues as an example since she posted it. Her rent is so low, that the landlord is paying her to live there while she invests her money elsewhere.

I've posted in other threads but I'll post it here as well.
I could have bought a 996 Turbo for $40K about 7 years ago.
Same time frame, I could have bought a 996 GT2 from Weissach.
Dec 2014, I could have bought a 996 GT3.
April 2014, I could have bought a low mileage mint 01 ITR for $16K.
I know, not a need but a want.
But so is home ownership. Can't afford to own, you can still rent.

Wasn't there a huge group of people who were pro-renting at the beginning of this thread?
How many of those people are now home owners?

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by meme405

That was a big stab. Mostly to get a laugh, but there is some truth to be said about it. The fact is this, people like to claim that housing is not an investment and that everyone deserves a place to live. Absolutely, there is nobody in this world that can deny that everyone deserves a place to call home and part of that definition of "home" involves having a roof over your head.

Unfortunately nobody said that anyone is entitled to afford a roof in Vancouver.

There are plenty of places in BC which people can move to and can afford reasonable housing costs.

The next point most people will point out would be well what if they have to be in vancouver for their jobs. Well the then those individuals will likely have to enjoy a crappy commute, the fact is that this problem exists in dozens of other markets, New York coming to mind, since I have friends who can't afford to live in NY and therefore have to commute from NJ.

I don't proclaim to know the solution to our little dilemma here, but I just find it laughable that people would willingly support the government in actively driving down prices in our RE market.

It seems ass backward, our governments job is to create an atmosphere where individuals can prosper and create wealth, and creating a major hurdle for our economy, seems completely a step in the wrong direction in this regard. I mean it would take one of the only major parts of our current economy which is actually doing well and completely decimate it.

I don't know this was just a stumbling of my own thoughts, I think the tax on foreign buyers is a step in the right direction, I absolutely believe that someone who isn't a resident or citizen who comes here and buys a house needs to pay a big piece of tax on that purchase. However I am terrified at how far others are willing to take this idea of slowing down RE prices. I have friends who are willingly wanting the government to seize back houses from all non-residents and sell them on the open market. I am sorry but that's ridiculous.



With all of the above written diarrhea out of the way. I'd be interested in seeing a couple things:

1. The number of owners to non-owners posting here.
2. Which side of the fence those people land on: Government intervening or Let the market do what it does.
3. If you are for the government doing something do you believe the current path they have taken (15% on foreign purchases) is an adequate one.



And what about the guy who just closed a couple months ago, and now the prices tank, what happens to him? He wasnt a greedy asshole, just an unfortunate loser. I'm not saying prices settling down is a bad thing as you so imply that all of us owners are. I am against the notion that the values of people's houses (people who in many cases worked very hard to be able to afford that house) should be reduced to fucking rubble just so that someone who failed to work hard or plan, or just had bad luck, can afford a house.

They're only correcting something they should have done before it got this out of hand. If I'm getting outbid by people that work and live here then maybe I need to take a step back and rethink my career choice. The reality is me and my girlfriend both make more than the average wage here and we couldn't go and buy a house in Langley right now, or if we did a very high percentage of our income would be paying the mortgage.

So why should I sit back and not bitch about foreign money coming here and rising prices to a level where I can no longer afford a place? If foreign money wasn't a factor right now I could afford my own house. People who bought a house before shit got crazy were lucky, that's it. They weren't smart, they got in at the right time and now that its a money laundering hotbed here they are reaping the benefits.

To the people who just bought in and are scared they'll be underwater now, maybe they should ask the people who told them prices will never go down in Vancouver what happened. Vancouver is different right?

If I'm playing poker and everyone has roughly the same amount of chips, and then suddenly a millionaire sits down and puts everyone all in on every hand the game is rigged before you have a chance.

It's not entitlement demanding the government do something about foreign money driving up prices. I live here, I pay taxes here, I vote here, take care of me first motherfuckers.

[Manic!]

Maybe we should ban Canadians from buying foreign property or charge 15% to any Canadian who buys a foreign property.

[westopher]

Other countries already do that.

[kr4l]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

if I'm playing poker and everyone has roughly the same amount of chips, and then suddenly a millionaire sits down and puts everyone all in on every hand the game is rigged before you have a chance.

You make it sound like the game is rigged and not fair, but the way I think of that example would be, how much money can I make off this millionaire?

Life isn't fair. You gotta deal with it. You make a good living with your significant other and can't afford a place in Langley. Ok that's not fair. I get it

I also make a good living with my significant other, but we we made a decision to get a place and the risk of a bubble was to occur. If prices go up, great, if prices drop half, life isn't fair

- to add to it, keeping telling yourself that the people who got in before the boom are lucky. if the prices went the other way, you're going to say the people that didn't buy are lucky. If you don't risk, there will be no reward. Call it whatever you want. I have a roof over my head.

- not trying to be an asshole, but this is how the world works.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by westopher

Other countries already do that.

But what about countries that don't?

[punkwax]

I consider myself smart to have got in when I did over a decade ago. Was young and took on a mortgage I wouldn't have afforded without taking in a couple friends as roomies. Not an easy decision but a smart one.

That said, I'm also lucky based on the gains I've made moving 4 times over the same time period, this last 2 years especially. But I won't base my equity on luck alone. I was smart to get in when I did, which was honestly earlier than I was prepared for but I took the leap.

[Harvey Specter]

So I was following the house below which got listed a few weeks in south Surrey, it was listed for $2.4ish and now they've dropped the price to $1.9m. That's a massive drop so you're already seeing price drops.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/S...olumbia-V4A3Y8

[punkwax]

5000 sqft lot.. nice place but 2.4M was a stretch and I'd bet the sellers knew it.

I have a 13000 sqft lot and would list for less than the new price. Anyone with half a brain knows the value is in the land, not the structure.

My opinion is the price drop isn't related to the recent tax news.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

If I'm getting outbid by people that work and live here then maybe I need to take a step back and rethink my career choice. The reality is me and my girlfriend both make more than the average wage here and we couldn't go and buy a house in Langley right now, or if we did a very high percentage of our income would be paying the mortgage.

Odds are though, it's actually locals who you would be getting outbid by if your eye is on Langley.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Harvey Specter

So I was following the house below which got listed a few weeks in south Surrey, it was listed for $2.4ish and now they've dropped the price to $1.9m. That's a massive drop so you're already seeing price drops.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/S...olumbia-V4A3Y8

In the past year it wasn't uncommon for owners to list at some silly unrealistic (for the time) number, only to receive multi-offers over that asking.

At some point we all know this has to end or at least slow down somewhere, and more realistic valuations come back into play. There are many locals trying to cash in on this craze still while they still can, who can blame them.

[Nlkko]

Originally Posted by punkwax

I consider myself smart to have got in when I did over a decade ago. Was young and took on a mortgage I wouldn't have afforded without taking in a couple friends as roomies. Not an easy decision but a smart one.

That said, I'm also lucky based on the gains I've made moving 4 times over the same time period, this last 2 years especially. But I won't base my equity on luck alone. I was smart to get in when I did, which was honestly earlier than I was prepared for but I took the leap.

You mistook intelligence with luck. It's like me making a dumb ass trade and got rewarded for it out of luck. Hate those type of trade, it teaches me a shitty habit that always cost me later on.

[kr4l]

Originally Posted by Harvey Specter

So I was following the house below which got listed a few weeks in south Surrey, it was listed for $2.4ish and now they've dropped the price to $1.9m. That's a massive drop so you're already seeing price drops.

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/S...olumbia-V4A3Y8

I'll list my place in Richmond for $5mil, then drop it to $2.5mil. Bubble has exploded

[punkwax]

Originally Posted by Nlkko

You mistook intelligence with luck. It's like me making a dumb ass trade and got rewarded for it out of luck. Hate those type of trade, it teaches me a shitty habit that always cost me later on.

I disagree. I recognized the market was trending upward way back then. Could have played it safe like most people I knew and rented but figured it was a smart decision to own my own land instead. No ragrets!

And your analogy kind of sucks

[Sw0op]

you can get a newish house in north burnaby with a similar sized lot for 2.4Mish or a new home w/lwh on a standard lot in vancouver for 2-2.5m

asking prices mean nothing...i've gone through the process recently..you need to find out the sale prices...even if 1.9M was fair value, if you had thrown them that they still may not sign off on it and insist on something closer to their original price (which is what happened on one of the homes me and my fiance put an offer on)

imo you're not gonna be able to judge the affect of this new policy for a few years...the 2nd half of the year is historically slower than the first half i think so it should slow down but it may not be because of the new rules...the real test would probably be the first half of 2017 and 2018.....

fiance and i bought in recently understanding the market was hot and there's gonna be a downturn at some point but we're not gonna time the market and play the game to be subject to external situations not within our controls....but we got in and we'll hammer away at the mortgage...we'll just need to keep our jobs and maintain at least our current pay and hold off on a few things for a few years we wanted until we drop the mortgage to a more comfortable level....hey it's a big purchase..it comes with sacrifices....not everyone can expect to drive a BMW + own a new and nice house + have kids + go to vegas every month + eat at blue water cafe and save $$ for retirement...

plenty of our friends have bought in this year or last as well...from vancouver to surrey and from as low as 150k to about 2M...there's a place for everyone...you just dont need shiny and new and may need to settle outside of your target area

The city is expensive to buy in yes but that's the hand you're dealt with in life..it's a cruel world out there and no one is going to look after yourself except for yourself...it's a good sign though that the government has done something finally...except i think their intention is to cool the market not crash it...so this is good news for your grandchildren if anything...

[Ludepower]

For the people on the sidelines waiting for the crash.
Do you even have enough saved for a downpayment?
Chances are if you did you would of already been in already.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by punkwax

I disagree. I recognized the market was trending upward way back then. Could have played it safe like most people I knew and rented but figured it was a smart decision to own my own land instead. No ragrets!

And your analogy kind of sucks

Well I don't discount your hard work to get to where you are at, there are hundreds of factors that determine people couldn't have done it at that exact moment. After all, there are people that are younger than you. Some 16 year old couldn't get into the market through "hard work and good decisions" at the same time you did. You had the advantage of the year you were born. Thats the part that disgusts me the most about this situation, is people refuse to understand that there is absolutely no hope for a younger generation, no matter how hard they work or how smart they are. You still get the same assholes talking about how entitled they are, when in reality, its the guy who's built up equity from doing absolutely nothing other than having money at the right time thats showing their entitlement.
I'm not lumping you in with those guys because you have a clearly more level head than some in this thread when talking about your position, but its pretty plain to see who thinks they "deserve" to be rich just because they had a down payment a few years ago.