Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[MarkyMark]

We're still assuming that most foreigners were buying here for the mountains and ocean, and not because up until the tax, Vancouver was a great place to park your money with no questions asked and feel safe that it will retain its value.

For the people who truly appreciate Vancouver and what it has to offer, 15% won't do shit to stop a millionaire from buying. For people who just want their money out of China, why buy Vancouver when other places arent charging you anything extra.

[UFO]

Having no experience whatsoever with this, I understand buying investment property in the US is much more difficult than Canada. Then we get into all the elaborate schemes that have been well documented in the recent media coverage, I doubt any of those schemes come even remotely close to working in the US.

And then also, what would be the draw of investing in a place like Seattle? How would a prospective investor be convinced that Seattle could return similar to what Vancouver did? Because if it can't, why would one even bother looking there. And Toronto, sure the price of entry is a bit lower for now, but its still not exactly cheap to own in Toronto and by no means a bargain. So IMO its not as easy as saying 'the foreign investors have moved on'; increased number of searches does not necessarily translate in the real world. And even then, the foreign buyers as a whole are a small % of the actual buyers

On a semi related note, we've noticed that airbnb have been marketing hard on TV and radio recently about their service in Vancouver

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

It's not just about sunsets..a lot of other places in question here like Seattle and TO are fucking dumps.

Toronto is a joke imo in terms of the geographical location and surrounding areas. My two buddies who are developers in the lower mainland just spent a week visiting family in TO and London, they both came back and lol'ed at people actually comparing Van to TO.

I haven't been to TO in 5-6 years but even then I remember it being this ugly sprawling city with no real core or draw for me.

Two things people so vastlyyyyyy take for granted living in Vancouver:

The Mountains
The Ocean

Of course if you just live inside your condo and play video games all day who cares where you live.

Seattle also is a fucking dump compared to Van, and as far as I've seen/been told. The nicer areas are no where near the city's core. So your accessibility is extremely limited.

And as far as a "homeless problem" goes, seattle is wayyyyy worse than Van. I've honestly felt safer walking the streets of St.petersburg at night not knowing the language than walking bar to bar in seattles "core"

so toronto isn't your thing for you and your friends, ok.

but a metro which shares the same neck of woods as the city you're praising can be considered to be a dump? Mountains and oceans aren't exclusive to Vancouver

[!LittleDragon]

Honestly, if you're not familiar with the local architecture, the photos could be of any modern city.

If oceans, mountains, outdoor activities, social activities is what you're looking for then go to Hawaii. Hell, there's even skiing on the big island if you want that too. It's shit for jobs but if you've made a lot of money in Vancouver real estate or if you're looking to get your money out of China, don't overlook Hawaii. It can be as social or as private as you want it to be.

[westopher]

ITT I learned. Nice photography looks nice.
I won't deny Vancouver has some beautiful landscape, however, any of our history we chose to tear down and build cookie cutter mansions and all glass high rises on, so the architecture leaves something to be desired.
It takes about 12 days of walking through the mountains to offset my disgust of 1 minute walking down Hastings. It's a fucking travesty down there, as well as many parts of downtown. No homeless by 2020 eh Gregor? Get moving on that one, because last I counted you are getting more and more by the day.
I do love it here, but it's got it's fair share of problems and then some. Other than its geographical location, it's actually a pretty fucking awful place. Income disparity is massive. Drug use, overcrowded schools, minimal quality job opportunities. I could complain for hours, but I'm going to go walk my dog by the ocean instead.
Find a balance, but be realistic. This isn't the greatest place on earth.

[twitchyzero]

what history do you speak of? I'm not saying monster homes built in the last 20 years has character but they aren't any worse than post-war style nor Vancouver specials. I think the architecture of our glass high rises are fine...one would probably value build quality a lot more.

dtes will remain controversial for the foreseeable future...the way I see it if you aren't active in improving it then you're right there's no point in complaining.

Schools are poorly balanced...high enrolment in surrey but low in Vancouver. VSB is looking to shut down a few schools to improve efficiency.

[westopher]

Well, the west end brothel, St. Paul's is on the chopping block, 100s of beautiful MCM ranchers, churches everywhere. I support densification, but tearing down a single family home to build another is out of hand, and ridiculously wasteful for a supposed "green" city.
Every day a character home is demoed to make a new plastic siding mc mansion.

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by westopher

No homeless by 2020 eh Gregor? Get moving on that one, because last I counted you are getting more and more by the day.

did he make a new promise for the next round of elections? he previously said 2015 and said ya sorry guys it's tough

Vancouver mayor?s promise to end street homelessness by 2015 fails | CTV Vancouver News

[westopher]

Ah sorry, I thought he couldn't have possibly been that "ambitious" (stupid) so I just assumed he gave himself long enough that people would forget such a ridiculous promise.

[MrPhreak]

Vancouver's and Victoria's homeless problem is the result of three things; the first is the warmer climate compared to virtually every other Canadian city; the second is because the hippy/eco/SJW movement is so strong they are spoiled when they pan handle; and finally, because there is an entire industry that revolves around the homeless that literally employs thousands of people on government and charity money.

The next nearest city (excluding Victoria) is Edmonton or Calgary... which they will freeze to death if they get caught outside in the winter for too long. People there also don't give them as much change or food. I was walking past a few homeless people who were passed on sleeping in makeshift camps along the sidewalk today, virtually all of them (and there was a lot) had a foot long sandwhich or other ~10$ food item for when they woke up. In Calgary or Edmonton, it is rare to see people giving anything at all to the homeless... in fact it is discouraged, most of the agencies there want you to donate your money to them instead to help them so they don't use it for drugs or booze. If they setup camp there on a busy sidewalk, the cops come along and shoe them away. The attitude is if you don't create a dependency, they will move on... and from what I've observed most of them do. The attitude here by a large number of people I see, is to try and spoil them with food and money, so life is pretty good (in comparison) and they hang around.

You will never get rid of it in Vancouver because of this regardless of how much money you throw at it.

There isn't much you can do about it. Try to speak out against a system of dependency and you will probably end up as the star of an SJW youtube video as a heartless asshole with no empathy for the plight of the homeless.

[Timpo]

With an election approaching, Christy Clark suddenly cares a lot more about housing
GARY MASON
The Globe and Mail
Published Friday, Sep. 16, 2016 7:54PM EDT
Last updated Friday, Sep. 16, 2016 9:31PM EDT

With an election approaching, Christy Clark suddenly cares a lot more about housing - The Globe and Mail


B.C. Premier Christy Clark and B.C. Finance Minister Michael de Jong during a press conference in Vancouver June 29, 2016.
(John Lehmann/The Globe and Mail)

A story last weekend about fraud and tax evasion being carried out by shady speculators operating in B.C.’s frenzied real estate market was mere hours old when the province’s finance minister issued a news release extraordinary for the swiftness with which it was issued.

Mike de Jong’s statement in response to the disturbing disclosures contained in a Globe and Mail investigation might as well have been titled: Don’t blame us, blame them.

“Like all taxpayers I am concerned about allegations that some are not paying their fair share of taxes,” the Finance Minister said. “For Canadians to have confidence in the tax system, the CRA [Canada Revenue Agency] must diligently enforce the law.”

He added that he was going to communicate “this expectation” to his federal counterpart, Bill Morneau. It was a wonder Mr. de Jong didn’t experience whiplash from the furious, head-shaking tone of his missive.

A day later, B.C.’s NDP critic on the real estate file, David Eby, was holding his own news conference intended to make the point that all of the controversies that have been revealed about the Wild West nature of the real estate market in B.C. were the fault of the provincial government, and no one else. It was a lack of proper oversight that had allowed practices like shadow flipping to flourish. And now fraud and tax evasion could be added to the list, too. Days later, both political parties were responding to fresh revelations in The Globe that banks were giving preferential treatment to foreign clients wanting to invest their (possibly dirty) money in the Canadian real estate market.

All of this is to say, there is not an issue more important to either of the two main political parties in the province than housing. It could be the defining question of the provincial election next May. It clearly is the file that Premier Christy Clark is most worried about as she begins to put her battle plan in place for re-election.

While Ms. Clark has taken measures to mitigate some of the public outrage over escalating house prices, she knows they may not be enough to satisfy the braying mob.

An opinion survey this week by Insights West shows that while most British Columbians support the 15-per-cent tax the provincial government imposed in August on foreign buyers, two-thirds of those polled also believe it will have little impact in terms of helping people get into the market.

The government is aware of that skepticism, too.

Luckily for it, it has scads of money to throw at housing initiatives between now and the election. Mr. de Jong announced on Thursday that thanks largely to that sizzling real estate market, the provincial budget surplus for 2016-17 is now expected to be $1.9-billion – more than $1.6-billion over the original estimate.

The additional revenue has come largely from the property-transfer tax that exists on real estate transactions. He said the government will next week reveal $500-million worth of new imperatives aimed at housing affordability. I’m told that won’t be the end of the announcements either. They will go on for weeks, and perhaps even into next year.

Few would have guessed that more than three years after Ms. Clark had secured a surprise election victory on the back of outlandish promises of liquefied natural gas riches, housing might emerge as the predominant issue of the next campaign. It was widely felt that the Premier would have to deliver at least one of the big LNG projects she promised if she hoped to get re-elected.

Now, it would seem that the failure of Ms. Clark to meet her LNG election pledge may not be as costly as the perception her government fiddled while the Greater Vancouver real estate market burned.

At the rate things have been going, there will be many more developments and scandalous revelations on that front before British Columbians go to the polls.

Meantime, you can be assured the B.C. government will treat any threat to its election chances with an urgency we haven’t seen before.

[hud 91gt]

Obviously a one sided argument but it makes my blood boil. Lol

[buhdeh]

Originally Posted by westopher

ITT I learned. Nice photography looks nice.
I won't deny Vancouver has some beautiful landscape, however, any of our history we chose to tear down and build cookie cutter mansions and all glass high rises on, so the architecture leaves something to be desired.
It takes about 12 days of walking through the mountains to offset my disgust of 1 minute walking down Hastings. It's a fucking travesty down there, as well as many parts of downtown. No homeless by 2020 eh Gregor? Get moving on that one, because last I counted you are getting more and more by the day.
I do love it here, but it's got it's fair share of problems and then some. Other than its geographical location, it's actually a pretty fucking awful place. Income disparity is massive. Drug use, overcrowded schools, minimal quality job opportunities. I could complain for hours, but I'm going to go walk my dog by the ocean instead.
Find a balance, but be realistic. This isn't the greatest place on earth.

Lol, I live in Toronto now but I'm not gonna lie, visually this city is a fucking dump - especially outside of the downtown core.

But like someone else said, if you're a city person it absolutely crushes Vancouver. Personally, I couldn't give less of a shit about going down to look at a nice beach 3 weeks out of the year. Night life, restaurant variety (including far more high-end restaurants), shopping, and having an actual economy that isn't completely built on real estate and tax-funded jobs are things I prioritize much higher than mountains and water.

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by westopher

Ah sorry, I thought he couldn't have possibly been that "ambitious" (stupid) so I just assumed he gave himself long enough that people would forget such a ridiculous promise.

no it was the "sound like a super hero to get elected but have your excuse in place" strategy. it worked...

[unit]

i like vancouver quite a bit but not THAT much.

maybe i'm the only guy who has never taken advantage of our most popular attraction: surfing and skiing all in ONE day! where else can you do that??

[westopher]

Where the fuck are you going to surf?

[Bouncing Bettys]

The internet, duh!. And if you're foolish enough, you can save time and surf while you ski.

[punkwax]

Pretty sure he meant golfing... golfing and snowboarding in one day is something I still have yet to do.

Although technically you could surf Tofino and hit Mt Washington in 1 day..

[!LittleDragon]

Ski on Mauna Kea... then come down to actual warm sandy beaches for surfing?

[Hondaracer]

surfing anywhere up the sunshine coast as well.

i would assume thats what most people kind of refer to, or mount washington/tofino etc.

[unit]

yeah honestly i'm not even sure, but people always make it sound like it's the best for everything outdoor related all in one spot.

i really do think the mountain activities are top notch though.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

surfing anywhere up the sunshine coast as well.

i would assume thats what most people kind of refer to, or mount washington/tofino etc.

You can't surf without waves bra.
Nowhere near the lower mainland to surf.
Agreed about the mountain activities though. Other than being busy, whistler is absolutely incredible.

[MrPhreak]

.

[hud 91gt]

Let's try ski MTB bike and kite all in one day! If your in Squamish.... Guess you could in van too of the wind is up.

[Timpo]

Class-action lawsuit filed against B.C.'s foreign buyer property tax
Chinese student leads court action, demanding repayment of all money paid by foreign national home buyers
By Eric Rankin, CBC News Posted: Sep 19, 2016 8:09 PM PT Last Updated: Sep 19, 2016 8:23 PM PT


Jing Li, 29, is the lead plaintiff in a class action lawsuit filed against B.C.'s additional 15 percent tax on foreign home buyers. (Peter Scobie/ CBC)

It's taken just over six weeks, but B.C.'s controversial tax on foreign home buyers is now facing a major legal challenge.

A class-action lawsuit has been filed in B.C. Supreme Court on behalf of virtually all non-Canadians who have been forced to pay an extra 15 per cent under amendments to the Property Transfer tax act.

If the lawsuit is certified by the courts and succeeds, the province could be forced to repay hundreds of millions of dollars — much of the expected revenue now earmarked to pay for affordable housing for British Columbians.

The additional charge went into effect August 2, brought in by the B.C. government in an attempt to cool down Metro Vancouver's overheated real estate market.

Foreign investors, especially from mainland China, have been blamed by some for fuelling high home prices.

Lead plaintiff a university student

The lead plaintiff in the case is Jing Li, 29, a university student from the People's Republic of China, now living in Burnaby.

In August, Jing told CBC News she was caught in a financial crunch by the imposition of the additional tax.

In mid-July, she cobbled together a 10 per cent deposit on a $560,000 townhouse in Langley by borrowing from her parents and friends in China.

Twelve days later, the new levy was imposed.

The tax added $84,000 to the price of the property. If she backs out of the deal, she will lose her non-refundable deposit of $56,000.

"I can't go forward and also can't go back," she told the CBC at the time.

Now, in the notice of civil claim filed late Monday, Jing represents nearly all foreign buyers in the province who have been forced to pay the additional 15 per cent.


Up to 4,000 Metro Vancouver real estate deals were affected by the quick introduction of a 15% tax on real estate deals, and were not allowed to be 'grandfathered' to avoid the tax introduced before the deal formally closed. (Christer Waara/CBC)

Lawsuit alleges discrimination

The suit argues the provincial government has acted outside its jurisdiction, and that only the federal government has the exclusive power over "the conduct and regulation of foreign trade, aliens and the regulation of trade and commerce."

The lawsuit also claims the additional tax has the "sole effect of discriminating against [foreign buyers] because of their status as foreign nationals."

And that, her lawyer argues, violates more than two dozen international treaties that Canada has signed with nations ranging from Argentina and China, to Russia and the United States — the latter covered by NAFTA, the North American Free Trade Agreement.


Lawyer Luciana Brasil, representing Jing and most foreign home buyers in B.C., says the province "used the wrong tool for the job." (Colin Fode/ CBC)

"The problem here is that the province has intruded into an area of federal jurisdiction" says Luciana Brasil, a partner with Branch MacMaster Barristers and Solicitors, the law firm that has filed the class-action suit on behalf of Jing.

"Because the province chose to use nationality as the basis for the tax, they're intruding into an area of federal jurisdiction. ... They're violating over 30 international treaties that guarantee equal treatment to these citizens and residents of other countries."

'We say they used the wrong tool'

Brasil says there's no denying there's a real estate problem in Metro Vancouver — it's just that the province made a mistake when it imposed the additional 15 per cent tax on foreign buyers.

"The case is not really about whether there's a housing crisis or whether or not there is a vacancy issue ... what we take issue with here is the tool that the province chose to use," says Brasil.

"We say they used the wrong tool for the job. It's like trying to use a screwdriver to put a nail on the wall. It just doesn't work."
None of the allegations has been proven in court. The B.C. government has yet to file a response to the lawsuit.

In order to proceed, the claim will have to be certified as a class action by the B.C. Supreme Court, a process that could take months if not years.

In the meantime, it's expected the province will continue to collect the extra 15 per cent tax.