Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[sonick]

Originally Posted by quasi

Have a look at the Marine Gateway project that's starting. It's basically that, not as large though. The condo's start on the 5th floor, everything below is commercial space for shopping, movie theatre and what not. Two residential towers, one office towers and the skytrain. Priced this a little while back, was really big, took a month just to do the takeoff, a normal tower takes 3-5 days.

Marine Gateway

A real estate guy on my FB posted about this recently...

One bedroom suite starts from $440,000 to $629,000.
Two bedroom suite starts from $695,000 to $1,020,000.
Three bedroom suite starts from $1,000,000 to 1,243,000.
Townhouse starts from $1,239,000 to 1,698,000.

gatdamn didn't know it was that expensive

[godwin]

It is not a new thing.. eg the Quay has been there for over 20 years.. and plenty of people are happy there.

As with everything, don't get stuck with the cheapest units ie lowest floor, next to the garbage chute etc. In the example of the Quay, get the townhosue up front not the high rise against the train yard.

However with new developments on the South side of Columbia in New West. Think about the gong show that is going to happen when the Front Street parkade is replaced!? There is just no good outcome, right now the parkade serves as a bit of shield from the noise and particulate from trucks and rails.

Originally Posted by Gridlock

...what they are trying to do to the rail tracks in New West.

Steps to profit:

1. Buy cheap, shitty, undesirable land
2. Build cool condos on it
3. Market cool condos as being "the next big thing"
4. Leave home owners to deal with the fact that the next big thing has a big ugly thing next door.
5. Profit.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by sonick

A real estate guy on my FB posted about this recently...

gatdamn didn't know it was that expensive

Without knowing which area the units are located, it is meaningless to look at prices alone.

Given the prices, my guess is those apartment / townhouses are in some "nicer" area. DT, Vancouver West, West/North Van, perhaps?

[sonick]

Originally Posted by Traum

Without knowing which area the units are located, it is meaningless to look at prices alone.

Given the prices, my guess is those apartment / townhouses are in some "nicer" area. DT, Vancouver West, West/North Van, perhaps?

Was speaking in regards to the Marine Gateway development, so Cambie and Marine.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by sonick

Was speaking in regards to the Marine Gateway development, so Cambie and Marine.

Gotta be pretty stupid to pay those prices for a unit right next to a transfer station.

[godwin]

I think most people who buy rightly (or wrongly) assume that the place will move sooner or later.. that's part of development eg I remember the development at Terminal and Main the last phase was next to the nasty GreyHound station. Then again, back then the penthouse was only 500k.

With the high rises going up on Oakridge the transfer station will have to either expand or move just to accomodate the population. Either way they will put in new gadgets to mitigate the smell etc.

Originally Posted by Traum

Gotta be pretty stupid to pay those prices for a unit right next to a transfer station.

[sonick]

Donald Trump announces $360M Vancouver hotel-condo tower | CTV British Columbia News

The property, on West Georgia St. in the heart of downtown Vancouver, will be home to the second-highest tower in the city next to the Shangri-La Hotel.

The 63-storey tower will be completed in 2016, and feature 218 luxury residences and 147 hotel rooms.

The building will also have a champagne bar, signature restaurant, banquet and conference space and Vancouver’s first pool bar and nightclub.

Read more: http://bc.ctvnews.ca/donald-trump-an...#ixzz2WhXVFjoR

[dinosaur]

Originally Posted by Traum

Gotta be pretty stupid to pay those prices for a unit right next to a transfer station.

dude...who cares about the transfer station. people gotta be stupid to pay those prices period.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by dinosaur

dude...who cares about the transfer station. people gotta be stupid to pay those prices period.

Depending on location and the unit itself, I'd say $440k for a 1 bedroom suite, and $700k for a 2 bedroom suite could still be a reasonable price in Vancouver (the municipality). But clearly, at the Marine Gateway location, that has to be a ripoff.

Prices for the 3 bedrooms and townhouses are completely out of line. With $1M+, I can buy a nice freakin HOUSE in a decent neighbourhood in Vancouver, with actual land, garage, etc. the full meal deal. At $1.7M, I can buy a freakin new house in a decent Vancouver neighbourhood.

[dinosaur]

I was just surfing around the website and looking at the floor plans, etc....ugly as fuck! the floor plans are really weird and SMALL. $440k for 473 sq. ft. is INSANE!!

All to say you live in Vancouver proper? Oh man...Didn`t know some many people enjoyed being fucked in the ass.

I know I talk about New West a lot and the only reason I am using it as an example again is that Grid and I just happen to have been condo `window shopping` last week, but there is one new building going on up the water front....the 2 bed plus den with 2 bath PENTHOUSE was $500k.

Some of these people who buy these condos need to realize that saving 20 mins driving time is NOT worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Burnaby, Coquitlam, Surrey, Richmond, etc...are all full of affordable housing. I couldn`t imagine dropping that money on something the size of a shoebox...

[sonick]

Originally Posted by dinosaur

I was just surfing around the website and looking at the floor plans, etc....ugly as fuck! the floor plans are really weird and SMALL. $440k for 473 sq. ft. is INSANE!!

Sorry I mis-spoke. The prices posted is for the development at 70th and Granville (where the Safeway used to be).

Considering the fact that it is no longer walking distance to a Skytrain station, makes it even more expensive.

Looking on the developer's site, 1br start at 559 sq ft.

[Gridlock]

Interesting article on condos, and what to do with them when they get old.

spoiler alert? No one knows.

Why do condos even exist? | Market Urbanism

[Traum]

Originally Posted by dinosaur

I was just surfing around the website and looking at the floor plans, etc....ugly as fuck! the floor plans are really weird and SMALL. $440k for 473 sq. ft. is INSANE!!

All to say you live in Vancouver proper? Oh man...Didn`t know some many people enjoyed being fucked in the ass.

I 100% agree that $440k for <500 sq ft is insane. IIRC, there were some new 600-700 sq ft properties in the False Creek area that are asking for $450k - $550k. Still expensive if you ask me, but I suppose that would make sense for some people.

If I were condo shopping now, I would most definitely look outside of Vancouver proper too.

[leilomo]

Originally Posted by Traum

Depending on location and the unit itself, I'd say $440k for a 1 bedroom suite, and $700k for a 2 bedroom suite could still be a reasonable price in Vancouver (the municipality). But clearly, at the Marine Gateway location, that has to be a ripoff.

Prices for the 3 bedrooms and townhouses are completely out of line. With $1M+, I can buy a nice freakin HOUSE in a decent neighbourhood in Vancouver, with actual land, garage, etc. the full meal deal. At $1.7M, I can buy a freakin new house in a decent Vancouver neighbourhood.

I think you're a little out to lunch here. An old house in a decent neighbourhood (ie Kerrisdale, Dunbar, Arbutus, etc) is around the $1.6M mark. New houses in the same neighbourhood go for around $2.7M. I am talking about 33' x 120' lots (approx.)

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by leilomo

I think you're a little out to lunch here. An old house in a decent neighbourhood (ie Kerrisdale, Dunbar, Arbutus, etc) is around the $1.6M mark. New houses in the same neighbourhood go for around $2.7M. I am talking about 33' x 120' lots (approx.)

I think the prices you quote are true for houses in Vancouver West. The prices Traum lists would work once you go east of Main St.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by leilomo

I think you're a little out to lunch here. An old house in a decent neighbourhood (ie Kerrisdale, Dunbar, Arbutus, etc) is around the $1.6M mark. New houses in the same neighbourhood go for around $2.7M. I am talking about 33' x 120' lots (approx.)

So your examples of a decent neighbourhood only consists of probably 3 of the 5 most expensive neighbourhoods in Vancouver? I think you are out to lunch on your definition of decent. When I think decent I think south main.


edit* I cant figure out why it says the a3 fs heading above my post.

[dinosaur]

"decent"

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by Gridlock

Interesting article on condos, and what to do with them when they get old.

spoiler alert? No one knows.

Why do condos even exist? | Market Urbanism

Yeah, that was kind of what I asked a few pages back, and it turns out I was right. Keep and sell but like a hot potato; how long until someone drops it?

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by Graeme S

Yeah, that was kind of what I asked a few pages back, and it turns out I was right. Keep and sell but like a hot potato; how long until someone drops it?

There was another article that I forgot to save the address of about how shitty glass wall condos are, and how many millions its going to cost owners to re-do all the glass in their building.

Apparently Toronto is putting them up like they are going out of style. We actually have quite a few as well. That two-toned building downtown that I can never remember the name of is getting their glass replaced(all dark finally) and its in the millions(going off memory).

Funny enough, in accounting, in a commercial setting where its possible you own a building, but not the land it sits on you actually depreciate the building.

Buy a condo, and we seem to think its value increases.

[godwin]

There are more aging apartments in TO than in YVR. A few younger extended family of mine live close to us in the Yonge & Eglington area. Their 30 year old apartment just have their water system remediated by an epoxy coating on the inside, it is all nice in theory, except since it is the 2nd time the building has done it, now the water flow drop rather dramatically. It is cheaper than digging the water pipes out!

I think the oldest apartment towers around town cluster towards the West End.. and they are in the process of being torn down (since the land is more expensive there). I think the trend in Vancouver is older buildings get bought out by REIT or companies like Hollyburn and get converted to rental units.. then once the ownership gets consolidated and when the good will period with the city is over, they will tear down.

Remember no matter if it is apartment or house, it is still depreciates.. In Vancouver it is the land that appreciates that kind of balances things out. The only bright side about older condos is usually the upkeep is so horrible, the prices are so depressed you can get several in one go.

The way I think about condos to live in is a bit like buying a car.. get in when the apartment is still relatively new (2 - 3 years old).. then sell when you get to about the 7 year mark.

Originally Posted by Graeme S

Yeah, that was kind of what I asked a few pages back, and it turns out I was right. Keep and sell but like a hot potato; how long until someone drops it?

[godwin]

That's the apartment building block of the Wall centre. A friend of the family just rented there 2 bed room for 3200 / month.

Originally Posted by Gridlock

There was another article that I forgot to save the address of about how shitty glass wall condos are, and how many millions its going to cost owners to re-do all the glass in their building.

Apparently Toronto is putting them up like they are going out of style. We actually have quite a few as well. That two-toned building downtown that I can never remember the name of is getting their glass replaced(all dark finally) and its in the millions(going off memory).

Funny enough, in accounting, in a commercial setting where its possible you own a building, but not the land it sits on you actually depreciate the building.

Buy a condo, and we seem to think its value increases.

[godwin]

This illustrates the bitch fight between Coq and New West.

What is fascinating and new (to me) is to move Royal Columbia to Riverview!? I know Douglas wants to have a nursing school at Riverview.. but I didn't know RCH wanted to move? Honestly St. Paul's need to redevelop first then RCH but I guess Providence Health can get money from the higher ups... while RCH can raise money concurrently.

Coquitlam mayor calls for new bridge after crash
A serious crash that shut down North Road during the rush-hour commute Tuesday has the mayor of Coquitlam once again calling for a replacement for the one-lane Bailey bridge that connects his city to New Westminster.

Mayor Richard Stewart said he’s concerned residents in medical need, like the patients in the most recent crash, won’t be able to make it to Royal Columbian Hospital (RCH) in time for treatment because of traffic.

“We simply need that road network to be more forgiving of traffic accidents,” he told the Tri-Cities NOW. “We’re going to have people die.”

He noted that on Tuesday, North Road was shut down, leaving only two options available for people trying to get to the regional hospital, one of which was the one-lane bridge.

He said to replace the current Bailey bridge with another single-lane span is “out of the question.”

BRIDGE WAS SHUT DOWN OVER STRUCTURAL ISSUES

The dispute between the two municipalities over the crossing has intensified in recent months after the bridge, which connects United Boulevard in Coquitlam to Braid Street in New Westminster, was shut down in February due to structural issues.

NEW WESTMINSTER OPPOSES NEW BRIDGE

The mayor and others in Coquitlam have been calling for a complete replacement of the Bailey bridge with a four-lane span, but New West continues to oppose the plan.

Last month, Coquitlam council asked the province to intervene via mediation or arbitration in an effort to ensure that a two-lane bridge is built to replace the existing crossing.

Currently, the bridge sits inside New Westminster’s boundaries and is maintained by that city, but both municipalities split the cost in half. The Bailey bridge was first put in place in 1995.

Two years ago, TransLink and the City of New Westminster rejected a United Boulevard extension.

Stewart said he’s spoken with New West Mayor Wayne Wright, who has told him he understands the concerns.

But the Coquitlam mayor suggested New West isn’t interested in replacing the bridge until traffic issues along the entire corridor are addressed.

CALLS FOR HOSPITAL TO MOVE

Stewart also said he agrees with some residents who question the idea of building a brand new RCH at the current site.

Instead, he suggested a new regional hospital would make more sense in Coquitlam at the old Riverview site.

“It doesn’t make sense at all to rebuild it [RCH] on that site given the enormous transportation challenges,” Stewart said. “You have to be able to get to the hospital.”

THREE HURT IN CRASH

As for the crash, three people were taken to hospital after a dump truck heading southbound along North Road collided head-on with a pickup truck.

Police said it appeared the dump truck driver applied the brakes and somehow jack-knifed into oncoming traffic.

In all, four vehicles were involved in the crash, which occurred around 1:30 p.m. near the New West border.

The two occupants of the pickup received extensive but non-life-threatening injuries.

The dump truck driver was also taken to hospital.

RCMP Cpl. Jamie Chung said investigators spoke with witnesses at the scene and speed is not considered to be a factor in the crash.

He did note a mechanical inspection would be part of the investigation.

The road was eventually reopened by 9:30 Tuesday night.

Click here to read more stories from The Tri-Cities Now.

© Copyright (c) Coquitlam Now


Read more: Coquitlam mayor calls for new bridge after crash

[Carl Johnson]

Anyone else surprised by how much and how fast the mortgage rates have risen the last few weeks? Canadians who have too much household debt and still on variable rate mortgages are gonna feel the full forces of this. When you are the 2nd most expensive city on planet Earth and an overwhelming supply of housing stocks about the hit the market in the next couple years, it just feels that the housing bulls are losing their cases day by day. I can't say this is finally the straw that broke the camel's back but will definitely watch incoming data on how the market adjust to high rates in the 2nd half of this year.

[4444]

Originally Posted by Carl Johnson

Anyone else surprised by how much and how fast the mortgage rates have risen the last few weeks? Canadians who have too much household debt and still on variable rate mortgages are gonna feel the full forces of this. When you are the 2nd most expensive city on planet Earth and an overwhelming supply of housing stocks about the hit the market in the next couple years, it just feels that the housing bulls are losing their cases day by day. I can't say this is finally the straw that broke the camel's back but will definitely watch incoming data on how the market adjust to high rates in the 2nd half of this year.

not at all, 5/10 year treasuries spiked - mortgage rates follow (in the US, it's based on 30 year paper, as they offer 30 year mortgages), and we all knew it was coming - rates are only super low b/c the fed (in the US) has bought all the treasuries at super low rates to flood money into the market to get businesses to invest and grow. How anyone could not see that the US is recovering, slowly, but recovering is beyond me.

i actually think this is the straw that breaks the camel's back - for all the ppl who say 'the chinese are buying up vancouver' - two things, 1, the majority of houses are bought with mortgages, and 2, china is started to see some HUGE slowdown in credit availability - so whether you believe the chinese buying up vancouver story or not, no. 2 harms it HEAVILY. It's not true, anyways - it's a small sect of the sales, but they attract the most headlines - lets not forget until recently it was americans doing the same when the US dollar was worth $1.50 cdn.

so, first, ppl won't be able to afford as much anymore (Remember house prices aren't relevant, monthly payments are), so prices will suffer. Now, there may be a 3 month lag, as those first time buyers looking today should have been prequalified, so will still have their 3% mortgage when they close - having said that, i'd hope that these ppl would think 'fuck that, i'm not buying now, i'll wait' - which will again add pressure to prices as buyers back off. remember, two things drive real estate in most cities - first time buyers, and people buying second properties - the latter is dead as you can't rent them out to cover cash outflows, and number one is about to die even harder

second, people coming up to renew this year (god i hope they blended and extended - if not, what idiots), and beyond will not be able to afford as much as they could before, yet carry a monster mortgage - they may be forced to downsize, bringing on more 'forced' sales, which brings down markets VERY quickly.

all i have to say is, thank god for the end of QE over the next 12-18 months, shows the US economy is on teh right track, and will bring along a US/Cdn dollar range of $1.10-1.15 or so, which is great news for canadian manufacturing, terrible for ppl who shop cross border (unless, of course you moved ALL you money to US at par, which is what everyone should have done - sell canadian, buy american was the winning trade of 2010-2012... i did just that and am reaping the benefits now and into the future - in 5 years, i will probably sell some american, and buy some canadian)

[FARMER]

^

I don't think QE is ending anytime soon (actually, I think it's impossible. The US has far gone past the Minsky Moment. The Fed is the single largest buyer of Treasury's and with the Fed running $1+ trillion deficits/year [and that's not counting the $16+ trillion on-balance-sheet debt and $70-100 trillion in unfunded liabilities] there is no way for the Fed to end QE. Bernanke et al. have been bluffing that they "may taper" ever since they started QE).

Anyways, I think in time even with the continuation (and expansion) of massive money printing ie. "Quantitate Easing", interest rates will rise because the US budget deficit will continue to grow, total funded and unfunded liabilities will grow and investors will start to move out of US debt. The largest foreign buyers (ie. China) have already begun to diversify their portfolios (into gold, Euro bonds, etc.).

And as for the US "recovering," record numbers of people on food stamps (est. 50 million) doesn't sound like much of a recovery to me.