Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[Mr.C]

That article was hilarious.

Clearly they were only signing on the dotted line. Completely innocent. Uh huh. Suuuuuure.

[Hondaracer]

Ignorance isnt an excuse for most things.. and i'd say when it comes to you IMMIGRATING to another country.. you should probably have your ducks in a row..

obviously all the people claiming foul just went to this guy, paid X amount of money, and they were in. If they didnt think that was fishy then they are just morons.

SEND EM BACK!

[Mr.C]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Ignorance isnt an excuse for most things.. and i'd say when it comes to you IMMIGRATING to another country.. you should probably have your ducks in a row..

obviously all the people claiming foul just went to this guy, paid X amount of money, and they were in. If they didnt think that was fishy then they are just morons.

SEND EM BACK!

Especially in the case of the first guy. You don't get to the point of owning a 7 million house by being stupid.

[Ch28]

Originally Posted by wingies

LOL they had no idea what they were signing cuz it was in english? Its your job to know

Im glad that this is happening, I hope the CBSA probe even further and deport even more people who falsify their records in attempts to gain citizenship or PR status

Fuck em and hope they all get deported and everyone involved in that scam gets fines and jail time.

[Anjew]

Definitely jail time for the scammers.

[Timpo]

I don't know if the person who signed the paper should be 100% responsible though, especially when they hired a professional to deal with it.

I know that in that particular case, the professional was unlicensed, but still, I just don't understand why.

I've seen so many tax scandal thing on the news too.
You are 100% responsible, NOT your accountant. But I wonder why.
If you're ignorant about tax, fine, hire a professional who knows what he/she is doing.
But if they make a mistake, why should you be held accountable?

Same as this immigration case, if you don't know what you're doing, hire a professional, but HOW the hell are you supposed to know what's written on the paper is illegal? Isn't this the whole purpose of hiring a professional?

[Mr.Money]

me going to china and signing papers not knowing what the fuck they are cause they're not in English,Sounds pretty fucking Dumb ass dumb,right?

[Traum]

Oh, don't play that I know nothing / I plead innocent card on me. I guarantee you, when a guy has only lived here for 8 months, and his agent set him up so that he appeared to have lived here for 2.5 years, he knows what the heck he has been doing. Esp when his wife and kids are here in Vancouver the whole damn time.

Innocent? Innocent my a$$.

Originally Posted by Timpo

I don't know if the person who signed the paper should be 100% responsible though, especially when they hired a professional to deal with it.

I know that in that particular case, the professional was unlicensed, but still, I just don't understand why.

I've seen so many tax scandal thing on the news too.
You are 100% responsible, NOT your accountant. But I wonder why.
If you're ignorant about tax, fine, hire a professional who knows what he/she is doing.
But if they make a mistake, why should you be held accountable?

Same as this immigration case, if you don't know what you're doing, hire a professional, but HOW the hell are you supposed to know what's written on the paper is illegal? Isn't this the whole purpose of hiring a professional?

[meme405]

Originally Posted by Timpo

the professional was unlicensed

This negates your entire post. If they hired a licensed accountant, or a licensed lawyer and ended up in this situation, then the "professional" would be held accountable as well.

But when you just hire some random fuck, you are bound to get yourself into shit, and since they aren't a professional at all, just some fuck with their name on a business card, you bear the brunt of whatever they fuck up.

And as traum pointed out, these people aren't stupid they know what they are doing.

[IGTBAR]

.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by Timpo

Clients of convicted immigration consultant facing deportation for lying
500 more people under investigation for falsely obtaining permanent residency and Canadian citizenship
By Eric Rankin, CBC News Posted: Nov 25, 2016 9:10 PM ET Last Updated: Nov 25, 2016 9:39 PM ET

Clients of convicted immigration consultant facing deportation for lying - CBC News | Investigates


Pei Jia Li peeks through the doors after his hearing at the Immigration and Refugee Board this week in Vancouver. He was ruled 'inadmissible to Canada' for having fraudulent entry and exit stamps in his passport. (Harold Dupuis/CBC )

One by one, many of the 1,200 former clients of an unlicensed Richmond, B.C., immigration consultant are getting the bad news — they're no longer welcome in Canada because they lied.

CBC News has learned 320 immigrants, who each paid thousands of dollars to New Can Consulting and owner Xun (Sunny) Wang, are now facing deportation to China.

One year ago, Wang, 47, was convicted of one of the biggest immigration scams in Canadian history — making $10 million by filing fraudulent immigration applications for his clients.

In one of his ploys, Wang falsely used his own home in Richmond as an address for 114 of his clients who didn't live in Canada.


Convicted immigration fraudster Xun (Sunny) Wang used his own home in Richmond as a fake address for at least 114 of his clients. (Mike Zimmer/CBC )

His appeal of his seven-year prison term and $900,000 fine was rejected last month.

Three of his former employees will be sentenced in January and three more are awaiting trial. At least three others have warrants out for their arrest.

Now the Canada Border Services Agency says of Wang's 320 ex-clients facing review of their immigration status, approximately 200 could be stripped of their citizenship and 120 could lose their permanent residency status.

Hundreds of other former New Can clients could also be in trouble.

500 more cases being investigated

In an email to CBC News, the border agency said it is continuing efforts to "uncover fraud on approximately 500 cases remaining to be investigated".

That means out of the 1,200 clients of New Can, over 800 could ultimately be sent back to China.

Guo Liang Lin is one of them.

At his recent hearing before the Immigration Refugee Board (IRB), the clean-cut man in his late 40s was ruled "inadmissible to Canada due to misrepresentation."


Immigration consultant Eric Leung, left, and client Guo Liang Lin. Lin admits he signed documents that said he lived in Canada three times longer than he actually had to obtain permanent residency. Lin was working with a different immigration company at the time, which he blames for falsifying records. (Manjula Dufresne/CBC )

Lin was issued an exclusion order, banning him from re-entry into Canada for five years unless he gets permission from immigration officials to come back sooner — something an immigration and refugee spokesperson says rarely happens.

Lin immediately launched an appeal on humanitarian and compassionate grounds, a move that will allow him to remain in Canada for nine to 12 months until his case is reviewed by the Immigration Appeal Division.

Passport 'falsified'

To obtain details of Lin's case, CBC News attended his IRB hearing on Nov. 23.

The board adjudicator heard that Lin, who received permanent resident status in 2010, had spent just seven months in Canada over five years — not the minimum two years required by law.

This allowed him to live and work in China, while keeping his wife, son and daughter in B.C.

But his passport was altered by New Can Consulting, his IRB hearing heard, with entry and exit stamps falsified to make it appear Lin had spent 980 days, or just over 2½ years, in Canada.

Permanent residents are entitled to most social benefits in Canada, including health care.


A page of a passport showing entry and exit stamps that were falsified to meet residency requirements to maintain permanent residence in Canada. (CBSA)

Despite his prolonged absences in the past, Lin says being forced to return to China will unfairly separate him from his wife and children.

"[My] family members are all in Canada," he told CBC News outside his hearing, "So me alone in China, this is a hardship".


Seized passports and stamps used in the immigration scam by New Can Consulting are displayed by the Canada Border Services Agency. (CBSA)

Lin's new immigration consultant, Eric Leung, who is helping Lin with his IRB case, blames the deceptive practices of New Can consulting, saying Lin was an innocent victim who signed documents that were in English, not his native Mandarin.

"My client did not understand English, so they trusted the agent. The agent asked [him] to sign, and [he] signed."

$7-million home

CBC News attended an IRB hearing for another former client of New Can Consulting, Pei Jia Li.

Li, 51, lives in a $7-million Kerrisdale home and drives a luxury SUV.

A permanent resident, he also had fraudulent entry and exit stamps in his passport, his IRB hearing heard — and he, too, was quickly ruled inadmissible to Canada on grounds of misrepresentation.


Pei Jia Li, a permanent resident who has fraudulent entry and exit stamps in his passport, lives in this $7-million home in Kerrisdale, an affluent neighbourhood in Vancouver. (Harold Dupuis/CBC )

Like Lin, Li has filed an appeal.

Li pulled a hoodie over his head and later roared off in his SUV when approached by CBC News.

But his lawyer, Andrew Wlodyka, also blames New Can Consulting for the possible deportation orders now facing 800 of the company's former clients.

"The consultants were absolutely dealing with people who are totally ignorant. They didn't even realize that the consultant was not even licensed," says Wlodyka.


Lawyer Andrew Wlodyka, who represented Pei Jia Li at his admissibility hearing, says the clients of the convicted consultant are victims and should be allowed to stay in Canada. (Harold Dupuis/CBC)

"A lot of these people have actually made a significant contribution to Canadian society. They laid roots here, they've bought property, they've established businesses. So it's a really tragic situation."

"All of the circumstances have to be looked at to determine whether booting them out of Canada is the right thing."

Both Li and Lin have indicated they will argue they weren't responsible for the fraudulent tactics of New Can Consulting. But they could face an uphill battle.

The federal court has ruled that misrepresentation in immigration cases can be direct or indirect. If a consultant misrepresents a client, the client is ultimately responsible for that misrepresentation, since the immigrant has a duty to ensure their information is complete and accurate.

More needed to stop 'ghost consultants'

Still, Lin's immigration consultant Eric Leung maintains his client isn't at fault.

He says the Canadian government hasn't been keeping other immigration consultants honest.

"The problem is there must be somebody doing something to manage those we call ghost consultants or those licensed consultants doing something not right," he says.

Leung believes that while New Can has been shut down and owner (Sunny) Wang thrown in prison, other dishonest consultants are still busy filing fraudulent claims on behalf of clients.

"We should not stop the investigation. We have to find all of them. I personally do think there are always non-stop cheating issues around our country, around B.C. province. Definitely."

If Leung's suspicion is followed up by Canadian immigration officials, it could mean many more permanent residents and Canadian citizens who obtained their status through dubious consultants could be looking over their shoulders in the months to come.

So get your family back to China with you. Simple as that. If you think is unfair that you have to alone in China get your wife and kids to go back with you. Canada owes you nothing. There is something call customer awareness. If you don't check out/review the service you are hiring is your own fault.

This guy knows 100% what is going on. Having false/alter info on his Passport. Yea right I have no idea what happen.

Since he just sign whatever crap is given to him maybe I should give him to sign an agreement that basically said he will give me all his assets to me. Kick his ass out of Canada.

[hud 91gt]

Originally Posted by IGTBAR

I guess what i'm trying to figure out is if most of the people in this thread are watch and waiters or just lookie loos and how serious everyone is about waiting in the sidelines.

At least in my circle of friends, there are a lot of us who are in condos that we are outgrowing with large downpayments/cash in hand and I can see it becoming like circling vultures as soon as prices drop even slightly - which might then drive prices back up.

Personally, I wouldn't be be buying anything until I see an uptrend. Never try and guess the bottom. Buying one unit, while selling the other isn't going to be swaying the market much. More unit's available, but contrasting that there is also more buyers. The influx in price comes from buyers purchasing multiple units, new buyers or outside buyers moving in.

Some will purchase when something comes available out of need. But this market isn't like what was here in the spring. Purchasing a unit, without selling yours first is risky business. You may not get what you are wanting. It may not sell in the timeline required. It may not sell AT ALL. If you are waiting for a miracle. Sell now, rent in a comfortable spot that you can grow into and jump back in when you feel it is right. If you don't do that, external pressures will make illogical decisions.

I'm completely out of the market now, on the sidelines and happy to rent for the time being.

[!LittleDragon]

Originally Posted by Timpo

yeah but people have been trying to lower RE prices, including politicians. (ie. 15% tax for Chinese buyers)

Politicians only do that to make it look like they're doing something. If most people think Chinese buyers are buying everything then they'll slap a tax on them. Prices are still relatively steady because Chinese buyers aren't the problem but to the people, it looks like the Government did something.

The cause of the problem is something something the Government can't do much about and that's cheap money. You're not going to see prices really fall until rates go up. That's starting to happen.

Some say that the current slowdown started happening as early as February before the new tax and regulations came into play. I think it's more of a sign that people are borrowed to the max. Prices have gone beyond the borrowing limits of most Vancouverites.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by !LittleDragon

Politicians only do that to make it look like they're doing something. If most people think Chinese buyers are buying everything then they'll slap a tax on them. Prices are still relatively steady because Chinese buyers aren't the problem but to the people, it looks like the Government did something.

The cause of the problem is something something the Government can't do much about and that's cheap money. You're not going to see prices really fall until rates go up. That's starting to happen.

Some say that the current slowdown started happening as early as February before the new tax and regulations came into play. I think it's more of a sign that people are borrowed to the max. Prices have gone beyond the borrowing limits of most Vancouverites.

Don't think they will raise the rates too much if ppl are borrow to the max. Just image if lets say 15% of the ppl sudden can't afford their mortgage due to the increase rate. You can say bye bye to not only the housing market but a lot of jobs/sector/industry will start to fall as well.

There is really no way to fix it. Do you let a major recession happen and pop the bubble or do you let things ride out now and keep everything current. At least keeping it current only affects those who are having issue going into the real estate market.

[!LittleDragon]

Problem is, government and banks don't control the 5 year mortgage rate. That's determined by the bond market. I'd like to see if Trump follows through with deregulation. If he does, you're going to see money leave the bond market and into stocks. Less money in bonds = rates going up.

Guess everyone can flood over to a variable when the time comes but there has never been a soft landing in any asset class. I think if next spring is a flop then sellers will finally accept the market is done and start lowering their prices before they lose even more money. Especially those with multiple properties.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by IGTBAR

I guess what i'm trying to figure out is if most of the people in this thread are watch and waiters or just lookie loos and how serious everyone is about waiting in the sidelines.

At least in my circle of friends, there are a lot of us who are in condos that we are outgrowing with large downpayments/cash in hand and I can see it becoming like circling vultures as soon as prices drop even slightly - which might then drive prices back up.

RS is not really indicative of the general market of buyers in Vancouver. I would take everything in this thread with a grain of salt.

With that said, people I know in their 30s with kids are still active in the market. Some friends of mine sold their detached home in the Tri-Cities and bought a detached in the Heights recently. Another couple I know with 2 kids has made a couple of offers on detached homes in the City of Vancouver. Detached houses are coming down, so as long as your condo is in a desirable area (downtown Vancouver, Olympic Village, Burnaby-Brentwood, Metrotown), then you might as well put the condo on the market and see what you can get. Negotiate a long close and go all in in that forever home and forget about the short term ups and downs. Attached properties will be next to cool off; personally, if I were still in the high-rise market, I would list now.

Selling and renting is a viable strategy in most markets. However, I think family-friendly housing in this rental market is very tough to come by right now, particularly as you get closer to the City of Vancouver. By family friendly, I mean something with a ground level entrance and 3+ bedrooms.

[will068]

Originally Posted by !LittleDragon

Problem is, government and banks don't control the 5 year mortgage rate. That's determined by the bond market. I'd like to see if Trump follows through with deregulation. If he does, you're going to see money leave the bond market and into stocks. Less money in bonds = rates going up.

Guess everyone can flood over to a variable when the time comes but there has never been a soft landing in any asset class. I think if next spring is a flop then sellers will finally accept the market is done and start lowering their prices before they lose even more money. Especially those with multiple properties.

The Chairman of the Fed has to be a skillful politician. He/She has to appease the president (his/her boss). At the same time, push proper implementation so the money supply agrees with the economy.

In theory, the Fed acts solely on its own. However, you have to be naive to not think that there is no influence by the Presidency at all. (E.g. Obama + backed by Wall Street = QE infinity --> Market rises --> Wall Street gets more $$).

Now in Canada, we follow our big brothers from down south. However, if it is the case where rates go higher in the US but the aggregate Canadian Economy is not uptrending, the Canadian Central Bank will not dramatically increase rates for while.

[Traum]

IIRC, this thread seems to have lumped the occasional rental property issue and question among the discussion, so I figure it would be a good place to post this:

Nine tons of garbage, animal feces and $30,000 in damage left behind by evicted Ontario tenants

Nine tons of garbage, animal feces and $30,000 in damage left behind by evicted Ontario tenants

ELLIOT FERGUSON, POSTMEDIA NETWORK 12.01.2016

A Kingston, Ont., landlord is questioning the law that governs how people rent properties in Ontario after his rental property sustained tens of thousands of dollars in damages.

Simon Andrew rented a three-bedroom house on John F. Scott Road to a couple and their grown son in late 2014.

He said the family “interviewed well” and came with references and seemed like “really nice people.”

His opinion has changed after he said the family proceeded to cause thousands of dollars in damage to the house, including keeping birds and livestock inside where the animals slept, ate and defecated all over the place.

It took Andrew more than six months and a ruling from the Landlord and Tenant Board to finally evict the family.

When the family moved out a couple of months ago, Andrew said he was left with a house full of garbage, rotting food and animal and human waste.

“I could tell you things that no human should know about what happens to mould when it grows on semen,” Andrew said.

“It was a biohazard, it was a fire hazard, it was a health hazard.”

But because the damage was done by tenants who legally rented the house, Andrew said he has little recourse because the dispute is treated as a landlord-tenant dispute under the province’s Landlord-Tenant Act, legislation Andrew said is inadequate to address his situation.

“The law just does not protect people. I’m the victim here,” he added. “If I went to your house and did what they did to my house, I’d be charged criminally.”

Andrew said his neighbours told him the family kept a goat in the house, along with rabbits, chickens and pigeons.

Andrew estimated he removed nine tons of garbage from the house, and months after the family left, the cleanup is still continuing.

The family, he said, used buckets of water to clean the floor and swept the slurry of dirt, garbage and animal feces down the heating vents.

Cleaners had to chisel dried feces from the corners of the walls.

Andrew said the house had also been “grease bombed,” which involves placing a piece of fatty meat in the oven, turning the heat to high and leaving the door slightly ajar. As the fumes from the meat fill the house, the grease from it collects at the top of the walls and runs down.

Among the debris the family left behind when it moved out were overdue bills for thousands of dollars, including bills for $1,400 for utilities, a $1,700 propane bill, and a $2,000 telephone and Internet bill.

Also mixed in with the tons of garbage were used tampons, diabetic needles and trays of urine left in the drawers.

“I rented for 25 years, I’m all for tenants’ rights, but that presumes reasonable people behaving normally,” Andrew said. “There’s no law to stop anyone from keeping a goat in the house.”

Actually, there is.

The City of Kingston’s Animal Control Bylaw states that: “No person shall keep livestock or poultry on any property except in a veterinary hospital or clinic or as part of a cultural, recreational or educational event, including a public or agricultural fair.”

Andrew estimates that repairing the house will end up costing him about $30,000, and he said he is frustrated by the family’s ability to take advantage of the rental system without any consequences.

“They are leaving a trail of destruction of other people’s lives, that’s what they are really doing. They are screwing up my life.”

[Traum]

I'm very surprised that the landlord seems to have no recourse on these tenants from hell. When I rent a unit, I always make sure we go through a property inspection form before the move in, and then again right at move out. I add clause into the supplemental regulations to include how the property needs to be returned to me in a reasonably clean and damage-free state, subjected to wear and tear from fair usage, or the tenant is going to end up with the cleaning bill.

But honestly... wow... it makes no sense that the RTA sides with the tenant so heavy handedly...

[RickyTan3]

Is there a place to report rental scammers?
I was looking at a unit in trump and they where very shady. End result asked for 12 months rent in advanced plus deposit.

Spoke with a few agents and thats not even legal

[Great68]

Originally Posted by Traum

I'm very surprised that the landlord seems to have no recourse on these tenants from hell. When I rent a unit, I always make sure we go through a property inspection form before the move in, and then again right at move out. I add clause into the supplemental regulations to include how the property needs to be returned to me in a reasonably clean and damage-free state, subjected to wear and tear from fair usage, or the tenant is going to end up with the cleaning bill.

But honestly... wow... it makes no sense that the RTA sides with the tenant so heavy handedly...

Even in BC the only way you'd get tenants to pay for those damages would be to take them to small claims, provided they even have the means to pay.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by Traum

I'm very surprised that the landlord seems to have no recourse on these tenants from hell. When I rent a unit, I always make sure we go through a property inspection form before the move in, and then again right at move out. I add clause into the supplemental regulations to include how the property needs to be returned to me in a reasonably clean and damage-free state, subjected to wear and tear from fair usage, or the tenant is going to end up with the cleaning bill.

But honestly... wow... it makes no sense that the RTA sides with the tenant so heavy handedly...

You don't want to know how bad it is. My wife, sister in law, and a good friend all work at the RTA and some of the horror stories they tell us.
That being said, the RTA in BC is actually working to improve things but with typical government red tape, it takes times to fix the system.

In this case, you would think the owner can go after the tenants through small claims court, but in the end is it worth it because there may be no way to collect.

What surprises me even more is the fact that the house wasn't condemned since it was a bio-hazzard.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Great68

Even in BC the only way you'd get tenants to pay for those damages would be to take them to small claims, provided they even have the means to pay.

If they don't have the means to pay, at least the court can issue some kind of salary confiscating requirement, right? The alternative is for the tenant to declare bankruptcy.

Naturally, this is just the law-abiding me thinking out loud. The not-so-law-abiding me would probably like to try something highly illegal to extort the $$$ out of them suckers.

[Great68]

Originally Posted by Traum

If they don't have the means to pay, at least the court can issue some kind of salary confiscating requirement, right? The alternative is for the tenant to declare bankruptcy.

Naturally, this is just the law-abiding me thinking out loud. The not-so-law-abiding me would probably like to try something highly illegal to extort the $$$ out of them suckers.

I imagine garnishing wages is a possibility, but if these are deadbeats on welfare or minimum wage a portion of fuck all is still fuck all.

Not to mention that judges in this country are usually soft of deadbeats like this.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by Traum

Naturally, this is just the law-abiding me thinking out loud. The not-so-law-abiding me would probably like to try something highly illegal to extort the $$$ out of them suckers.

No need to act badass. You ain't D. funk. Leave it to the pro's like him.