Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[nah]

I don't understand how people are carrying these massive mortgages? It's not living if you're house poor...

Sick of the Libs, we just need a change. Yes, I remember the 90s with the NDP but give them 4 years and if they suck we can re-elect the Libs with hopefully new leadership.

[originalhypa]

Originally Posted by donk.

Only one thing will cause a crash. Interest rates rising. Its starting in the US, but it has not hit canada yet.

The feds know this, and it has to terrify them. The US raising it's interest rates is going to have a negative effect on the Canadian dollar. We're already at a 10 year low with the loonie, so another hit is going to hurt us all in the wallets.

But the thought of a Canadian interest rate hike isn't even on the average citizens radar. We're holding a 1.65:1 debt ratio on the national average, and people aren't suspending their purchases. Everywhere you turn folks are driving new cars, and wearing new Jordans. It's insanity. The gov't couldn't turn away foreign money, as it was the only thing keeping our economy going. Of course there is more to a country than it's economy...

I know we have been saying this for years, but something has to give and that is interest rates. Combine a higher rate with a drop in foreign investment and we're in a world of hurt.

[Z3guy]

Originally Posted by originalhypa

This is what I don't get.
If I was an offshore millionaire I would settle in California where you can actually enjoy the weather and the feeling of sun on your skin for 11.5 months a year.

Vancouver has great marketing. But it's depressing here for at least half the year.

if you find it depressing 6 months of the year here, jesus, what do you think about AB, SK, MB, or Ont? Their climates are allot worse than BC for most of the year. Sure Cali has allot more sun than BC, but you also have to deal with smoking hot summers. Allot of asians like Vancouver because of the mild climate.

[Tapioca]

What makes people think that people who live in those high rises around Metrotown actually have mortgages?

The only people who rely on local incomes who live around there are the people who are living in those run down low rises getting demolition notices.

[Hondaracer]

feds wont raise interest rates until RE markets flatten out.. if ever..

people losing their shirts on overblown mortgages will do much more damage to the canadian economy than people being leveraged over their heads on that mortgage imo

I may be in the minority but very few people i know have a mortgage for more than half the value of their home.

95% of my friends parents own million dollar + homes with no mortgage on it
50% of my friends own a place with 40% or less remaining on the mortgage
50% do not own and either rent or still live at home

Even thinking through aquaintances etc. obviously it's hard to know their financial situations but for the most part, the people i know with big money places also make big money (which in general isnt a sign of financial well-being) but no one i know is seemingly struggling to keep their head above water in their RE holdings.

[originalhypa]

Originally Posted by Z3guy

if you find it depressing 6 months of the year here, jesus, what do you think about AB, SK, MB, or Ont? Their climates are allot worse than BC for most of the year. Sure Cali has allot more sun than BC, but you also have to deal with smoking hot summers.

One word...... garbage.
I despise flying into Calgary for business. I hit up the first westjet flight into Calgary in the AM and take a 6pm flight back to Abbotsford. Calgary is far nicer than that craphole Edmonton too. Manitoba is nothing more than angry natives and black flys. Saskatchatoon is probably the most boring place in all of Canada, and the women are ugly as sin.

Having lived in both Ottawa and Montreal, you get used to the cold. It's not that bad actually, because it's usually dry in the winter. Unlike BC where you're soaked to the bone for half the year. Sure, it's pretty living in a rain forest. But there's a reason why the pacific northwest has a higher average of serial killers than anywhere else.


Also, it's spelled a lot.
allot isn't a word.

[Z3guy]

allot (əˈlɒt)
vb (tr) , -lots, -lotting or -lotted
1. to assign or distribute (shares, etc)
2. to designate for a particular purpose: money was allotted to cover expenses.
3. (foll by to) apportion: we allotted two hours to the case.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

95% of my friends parents own million dollar + homes with no mortgage on it
50% of my friends own a place with 40% or less remaining on the mortgage
50% do not own and either rent or still live at home
.

Well assuming your friends are in their mid-30s and their parents are 60-70s then it's not surprising. As a early-mid Boomer you pretty much had to be a major fuck up to not own your own home and have it paid off by now.

Many in our generation? heh. Esp those who bought recently with 5-10% down.

[!LittleDragon]

Most people forget the typical 5 year fixed is not set by the BoC... it's set by the bond market. Government has no control over it.

[originalhypa]

Originally Posted by Z3guy

allot (əˈlɒt)
vb (tr) , -lots, -lotting or -lotted
1. to assign or distribute (shares, etc)
2. to designate for a particular purpose: money was allotted to cover expenses.
3. (foll by to) apportion: we allotted two hours to the case.

arghh!
foiled by my own petard!

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Well assuming your friends are in their mid-30s and their parents are 60-70s then it's not surprising. As a early-mid Boomer you pretty much had to be a major fuck up to not own your own home and have it paid off by now.

I agree 100% with the boomers having a paid off home. I remember in the early 90's when a number of my friends parents paid off their homes around the same time. Everyone showed up with fresh nikes or Doc Martins that year because mom and dad had some extra income freed up.

I'm thinking of my group of friends who are now in their late 30's and early 40's. Many of them have homes that are paid off, or close to being there. Getting into the market in the early 2000's was the defining factor there. My friends and acquaintances who got in later are pretty far behind, having paid twice as much for virtually the same homes.

I feel for the new generation. Either rent, become indebted for life+, or leave your birthplace. Lots of blame to be thrown around, with much of it coming from offshore money. I know you may not agree wholeheartedly with that, but you have to admit it was a major factor.

[CivicBlues]

The foreign investors might have been the spark, but we sure left a ton of dry kindling lying around and are pretty nonplussed as to how to clean any of it up.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Well assuming your friends are in their mid-30s and their parents are 60-70s then it's not surprising. As a early-mid Boomer you pretty much had to be a major fuck up to not own your own home and have it paid off by now.

Many in our generation? heh. Esp those who bought recently with 5-10% down.

yea guess it probably has a lot to do with age as when i think about it now, a lot of the people who used to work for my former company (5-8 years younger than myself) were the ones getting into these big time mortgages with little to nothing down. Some probably did alright but i'm sure some are struggling pretty hard now. Especially considering some of the locations and builds they bought into have not seen the increases most have.

[noclue]

From what I noticed either the no mortgage or little mortgage folks still have debt via toys or that cottage in the okanagan or ski resort. Very hard to resist temptations when HELOC's are only 3%.

[Hondaracer]

in the last few years it's been pretty prime for rec properties

[EvoFire]

There's a lot of talk about foreign money how it is or isn't contributing to the prices/economy, but I don't see a lot of talk about how it's measured.

There are lots of landed immigrants/Canadians who spend foreign money in Canada, is that counted?
Are we only counting those we aren't citizens but live here?
Do we count those who are citizens but don't live here, however still own property in Vancouver?

[donk.]

You know whats a joke?

the beatdown townhouse @ 1174 inlet street in coquitlam that i looked at on the weekend.
Its list price? 420K.

The catch? It reefed of smoke.

Wait, 420k, reefs of smoke, ahhhhh it all adds up now.

Ok, so who would want to buy a teardown townhouse, that smells like smoke. Sends in offer for 395K

Realtor replies:
"Hi i want to follow up they have accpeted an offer for 510K"

Facial reactions as follow.



What. The. Fuck. Vancouver.

[hud 91gt]

Reefed? Was that a play on words or just a complete f%&$ up.

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by originalhypa

The new hotness is $349,000 on a 1/5th acre, in beautiful Hope, BC.



Just 45 minutes past Abbotsford, you can live near the famous rock slide, while eating at Hope's finest restaurants, including the Dairy Queen and A&W. Find fashion bargains at the Fields, and the latest novella at Baker's books. Why not, there's fuck all else to do!

To be fair, Hope isn't that bad. True, there's very little in the way of jobs out there, but it's a decent place for a weekend getaway or for a retired person.

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

There are plenty of nice places outside of the lower mainland but they are still by no means "affordable" for what would ever get me to move

Acerage and a decent 3500sq ft house near 100 mile is still 750-1.5

Two of my uncles live in the kootneys, one in cranbrook, one in invermere. Sure you could get a > 10 year old house nice house for 350k but cranbrook is a fucking dump, and my uncle, who bought his house in the early 90's for the same price my parents did in surrey saw gains from 50k-250k whereas my parents saw gains from 60k to 1.4 (albeit we built a brand new house)

Then drive an hour to invermere where my other uncle has a very nice home on a great property in mostly a transient town for Albertans, and his is worth 800+

Kelowna, Kamloops, etc you can find some value in a big house with a pool for around 500, but that's a big transition for most people.

Originally Posted by PeanutButter

This.

No one should be arguing owning land is superior.

The problem originalhypa, is that no one in Vancouver is willing to sacrifice.

I'm not sure where you grew up originalhypa, but if you grew up in Langley or in that general area, you have friends and family in that general area.

I grew up in Vancouver. All of my friends and family are in Vancouver. It would be socially difficult for me to move to Langley or Abby.

I don't need to be close to downtown as I don't go down there often, but to be distant from my family and friends... I will have a tough time doing that.

If I was brave and had courage, I would move to Alberta and start my life there, as I know my kids would have a better future out there because they would be able to afford a home.

But, I am too selfish and cowardly to move to Alberta. Even though I know for a fact that I could make more money in my field and I could buy a house for a more reasonable price, I will not sacrifice to do that..

It sucks. Being a global city was the absolute worst thing for us. It ruined our entire future.

I moved away from the Lower Mainland a few years ago and into an area where I knew literally one other person. Don't get me wrong; I love the area and I like the fact that I can actually see the Milky Way every night when I walk outside, but it could get fucking lonely at times. You just have to join some clubs or outdoor events and meet people that way.

Land out this way is also slowly creeping up. In Salmon Arm, I lived on a 22 acre plot of land at the top of a mountain that had a 5000sq new build main home and a 1200sq farm hand house. At the time, it was worth $800k. Now, over $1m. That's just over the span of a couple years. I'm now in Kamloops in one of the nicer parts of town with a fantastic view (let's be honest, the only nice parts of town are South of the river... DON'T buy in North Kamloops, sorry tegra_devil ) and in a duplex that's very quickly showing it's age. That's fine because I traveled for work and was only around for a few days every couple months. But even a shitty duplex in this part of town is going for $350,000 when elsewhere in town it'd probably go for maybe 60% of that. Go a little further up the mountain from my place and into Aberdeen or Upper Sahali and you're very quickly hitting the $500-750k range. Even here in Kamloops, where there's very little industry outside of a couple mines and the energy sector in Savona, prices are starting to stretch past the means of the general working public here.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

There's a lot of talk about foreign money how it is or isn't contributing to the prices/economy, but I don't see a lot of talk about how it's measured.

There are lots of landed immigrants/Canadians who spend foreign money in Canada, is that counted?
Are we only counting those we aren't citizens but live here?
Do we count those who are citizens but don't live here, however still own property in Vancouver?

Went to the pre sales event for the apartment. Most people line up getting general info about the whole process, tons of people line up to get extra parking/storage but none line up for the mortgage at all. It seems people don't really need a mortgage at all.

The sad part? 99% is all Asian.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

Went to the pre sales event for the apartment. Most people line up getting general info about the whole process, tons of people line up to get extra parking/storage but none line up for the mortgage at all. It seems people don't really need a mortgage at all.

The sad part? 99% is all Asian.

That doesn't really mean anything. It's also possible that these people are already pre-aproved for a mortgage and go in knowing what their limits are.

[CCA-Dave]

Originally Posted by Lomac

To be fair, Hope isn't that bad. True, there's very little in the way of jobs out there, but it's a decent place for a weekend getaway or for a retired person.

I moved away from the Lower Mainland a few years ago and into an area where I knew literally one other person. Don't get me wrong; I love the area and I like the fact that I can actually see the Milky Way every night when I walk outside, but it could get fucking lonely at times. You just have to join some clubs or outdoor events and meet people that way.

I've now done two moves away from my family / social life. First from Ontario to Squamish, and 12 years later Squamish to Port Alberni. It's not easy, but you got it exactly right. Join some clubs, hit some outdoor events, meet people that way. Heck, with FB these days start a car meet.

I won't live "in the city", so while I did look at Chilliwack on 'the mountain', it's too condensed for me. Agassiz is booming...you may not think it, but based on how much they're building and the commercial businesses that are going in, it's clearly the next "affordable suburb". Hope will have quite a few years before it starts to grow from the move east, but it's not a _bad_ place to live.

It's funny though, the reactions to Hope by city dwellers is exactly how I feel about living in a city. No way in HELL would I move to Burnaby, Langley, etc etc. Maybe Deep Cove...I could probably handle living in Deep Cove. You know, if I won the lottery.

-Dave

[originalhypa]

Originally Posted by Lomac

To be fair, Hope isn't that bad. True, there's very little in the way of jobs out there, but it's a decent place for a weekend getaway or for a retired person.

Very true.
I would take Hope over Chilliwack anyday. But you are limited when you live there, as there are no real jobs within a 30 minute drive. Imagine getting a nice house on 1/5th of an acre there, but have to commute an hour each way to your job in Surrey. It's only a matter of time before you're debating the pros and cons of putting a smith and wesson in your mouth.

But for retired folks, or someone who telecommutes or travels for work, it would be a great option. The land there is quite nice, albeit mountainous.

Even here in Kamloops, where there's very little industry outside of a couple mines and the energy sector in Savona, prices are starting to stretch past the means of the general working public here.

My buddy lives on Partridge in Westside, and while it wasn't a "nice" area, I enjoyed it profusely. His neighbors were very nice, down to earth people. Going out for a bike ride in the evening was just perfect. Folks sitting on their porches sipping a cold one, guys working on their cars, I could get used to that.

But his house is now in the $400k range and climbing. So many people I talk to in their 40's are looking at Salmon Arm, Pentiction, Osoyoos, Merritt, and Kamloops as a future place to live. People who now live in $900k Walnut Grove houses and will have the money to spend. So wish me luck this summer when I head to the loops again to buy a house. I was hoping to get something in the Juniper area near the Bike Ranch. Hopefully by then the south side will have cleaned up a bit.

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

99% is all Asian.

I'm seeing the same thing in Langley. Every week I get a mailer from Nu Stream realty and it's written in chinese characters. Houses that sold two years ago, are now on the market again with realtor names like Gina Ho and Chen Tek Yuen. They know their market, and don't care to cater to anyone who is not a part of said market.

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by originalhypa

My buddy lives on Partridge in Westside, and while it wasn't a "nice" area, I enjoyed it profusely. His neighbors were very nice, down to earth people. Going out for a bike ride in the evening was just perfect. Folks sitting on their porches sipping a cold one, guys working on their cars, I could get used to that.

But his house is now in the $400k range and climbing. So many people I talk to in their 40's are looking at Salmon Arm, Pentiction, Osoyoos, Merritt, and Kamloops as a future place to live. People who now live in $900k Walnut Grove houses and will have the money to spend. So wish me luck this summer when I head to the loops again to buy a house. I was hoping to get something in the Juniper area near the Bike Ranch. Hopefully by then the south side will have cleaned up a bit.

Actually Westsyde isn't that bad. There are a couple of nice neighbourhoods there and it's far enough away from the normal North Shore transients that you typically don't have to worry about things like break-ins or being accosted by people on street corners. Truth be told, the north side of Kamloops isn't terrible as there are lots of good pockets, but as a general rule it's not the greatest. Mind you if you want investment property, you could do worse than buying a unit in Brock or the North Shore and simply sit on it while the surrounding area gentrifies itself.

Juniper is nice. There's a new big development project going on right next to the bike park (Juniper West it's called, I believe). Seems to be decently priced and, if you pick the proper location, you can get some nice mountain views. I still think that if someone were to move to Kamloops, move onto one of the hillside homes. The view can be killer, especially from the south side of the Thompson. There have been many a day where I sat on my porch, sipping a beer, and watched lightning storms roll through the North Shore/Westsyde area and not get rained on.

Anyway, I'm adding a couple pictures from the last two houses I lived in. They also explain quite well why I don't know if I could ever move back into a city. I know there are places in the GVRD that have just as spectacular views, but they will also cost far more than these houses/lots did.




(that shot took me about a hundred attempts before I got a good one )





Hypa, next time you're in Kamloops, let me know. It's been a while

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by originalhypa

I'm seeing the same thing in Langley. Every week I get a mailer from Nu Stream realty and it's written in chinese characters. Houses that sold two years ago, are now on the market again with realtor names like Gina Ho and Chen Tek Yuen. They know their market, and don't care to cater to anyone who is not a part of said market.

My parents still live in the same house in Brookswood that they bought in '79 for $80k or so. Today's value is close to a million for the home. But because it's in a well established nieighbourhood that's nearby all the planned expansion in the Brookswood/Fernridge area, every few weeks they get cold call offers from realtors and even regular people stopping by for between $1.5 and $2m for the home. It's fucking insane.

And for the record, that neighbourhood isn't in the targeted area for redevelopment. It's staying as a 1/2 acre lot subdivided housing neighbourhood.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by originalhypa

I'm seeing the same thing in Langley. Every week I get a mailer from Nu Stream realty and it's written in chinese characters. Houses that sold two years ago, are now on the market again with realtor names like Gina Ho and Chen Tek Yuen. They know their market, and don't care to cater to anyone who is not a part of said market.

Same thing at my parents place! Just yesterday 2 realtors knock on the door giving us their cards and told us they just sold the duplex 3 house away. Want to see if we want to sell our house. Is getting annoying since there are calls every few days.