REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum


Welcome to the REVscene Automotive Forum forums.

Registration is Free!You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   REVscene Automotive Forum > Automotive Chat > Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events

Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events The off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-01-2017, 08:00 AM   #9851
I have named my kids VIC and VLS
 
Hondaracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,574
Thanked 14,966 Times in 5,970 Posts
Failed 2,061 Times in 690 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Specter View Post
I e-mailed a realtor friend a few days ago because I have a family member who is looking to buy a 1 bedroom condo and here's what he said...



I don't believe for a second that all 3000 buyers are locals wanting a place to live. It's a classic pump and dump scheme happening right now in our RE market with no end in sight.
These two units are from my old building:

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/S...olumbia-V3N4S6

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/S...olumbia-V3N4S6

We sold our unit on the 11th floor for 400 on December 30th Our unit was a wayyyyy nicer unit than these two, we had a 900sq 2 br 1.5 bath corner unit that faced south east, it had a great view of Baker, new west etc.

out unit was also decently "renovated" not a new kitchen but completely re-painted cabinets, a new counter top, tonnes of work i did in terms of chair rail, wainscotting, etc. We were on the market for almost 2 months to get 400

now that 105 unit, ground floor with a view into the parkade is going for 50k more lol..
Advertisement
__________________
Dank memes cant melt steel beams
Hondaracer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 09:00 AM   #9852
Willing to sell body for a few minutes on RS
 
quasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Cloverdale
Posts: 11,573
Thanked 3,775 Times in 1,344 Posts
Failed 83 Times in 42 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondaracer View Post
These two units are from my old building:

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/S...olumbia-V3N4S6

https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/S...olumbia-V3N4S6

We sold our unit on the 11th floor for 400 on December 30th Our unit was a wayyyyy nicer unit than these two, we had a 900sq 2 br 1.5 bath corner unit that faced south east, it had a great view of Baker, new west etc.

out unit was also decently "renovated" not a new kitchen but completely re-painted cabinets, a new counter top, tonnes of work i did in terms of chair rail, wainscotting, etc. We were on the market for almost 2 months to get 400

now that 105 unit, ground floor with a view into the parkade is going for 50k more lol..
So what you're saying is you decided to sell



__________________



“The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place... and I donīt care how tough you are, it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently, if you let it. You, me or nobody, is gonna hit as hard as life. But ain't about how hard you hit... It's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward... how much you can take, and keep moving forward. Thatīs how winning is done. Now, if you know what you worth, go out and get what you worth.” - Rocky Balboa
quasi is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 06-01-2017, 10:31 AM   #9853
Rs has made me the woman i am today!
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Langley
Posts: 4,086
Thanked 3,375 Times in 1,279 Posts
Failed 92 Times in 70 Posts
You sold around September right? A little after the tax came out and it seemed like everyone was playing the wait and see game for a few months. Pretty crappy timing I suppose.
MarkyMark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 10:55 AM   #9854
I have named my kids VIC and VLS
 
Hondaracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,574
Thanked 14,966 Times in 5,970 Posts
Failed 2,061 Times in 690 Posts
December, it was on the market since late oct and we ended up selling under asking.

We got a better mortgage rate as a result, but 50k is 50k :/
__________________
Dank memes cant melt steel beams
Hondaracer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 11:00 AM   #9855
Orgasm Donor & Alatar owned my ass twice!
 
Traum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Paradise, BC
Posts: 6,917
Thanked 6,650 Times in 2,679 Posts
Failed 253 Times in 139 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp View Post
Take one good at Winnipeg. Sure housing is super cheap there you literally buy a mansion with 400k but you don't see people flocking their way there. It sucks there. There aren't much employment. Heck their whole DT is like 2 streets and that's it.
Winnipeg has some very, very nice and friendly people. At the same time, it is often scorching hot in the summer (close to 30°C) and riddled with mosquitoes, and damn dry cold in the winter. As an interior city, of course it won't flourish or attract newcomers like Vancouver does.

As an equivalent example, why don't you compare DTES or Whalley to Shaughnessy?

Quote:
Housing only becomes a commodity when people can't even afford to rent. Which is not happening.
Metro Vancouver housing has already become a commodity when those who work here can't afford to live here. Even if we were to go with your definition of what constitute housing as commodity, do you even realize that CoV has a near zero (residential) vacancy rate? It gets easier as you move further out, but even renting is not that easy (or cheap).

Quote:
You think Vancouver housing is bad? Check out other cities around the world and you will realize our real estate is still cheap here.
This has to be the biggest BS I've heard in a while.

Vancouver housing ranked 3rd most unaffordable by international study - British Columbia - CBC News

The news article is only dated in late January 2017. That means I count 2 other cities that has more expensive housing than Vancouver does. TWO.

Next time you are about to spew your BS, please do a little fact checking first.
Traum is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 06-01-2017, 12:26 PM   #9856
I have named my kids VIC and VLS
 
Hondaracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,574
Thanked 14,966 Times in 5,970 Posts
Failed 2,061 Times in 690 Posts
the crisis was so bad that people who work here cant afford to live here, places would not be busier than ever and rental rates wouldnt be at 0%.

I've brought this up before but If Vancouver is too expensive for you, perhaps Sacaramento Cali. would suit you better?

only $750,000 for this

2016 Bidwell Way, Sacramento, CA 95818 - realtor.comŪ

or 600k for this:

1129 4th Ave, Sacramento, CA 95818 - realtor.comŪ

In a place like California where the suburbia sprawl is literally -endless- you can easily develop forever and ever and continue to build homes, and in shitty Sacramento you're getting the same prices as say, Langley, Surrey, etc.

The impact of foreign investment can be debated, but imo, the concept of "Supply and Demand" has never had a better example than in Vancouver. No where left to develop, no where left to expand, no more land to buy, Outside of climbing up the mountains of north and west van (dont worry those will be affordable homes) there is nothing left to develop but farm land..

Then you've got the anti-gentrification, anti-development granola munchers around commercial drive etc. who oppose building towers on derelict lots. How can homes ever become affordable, available, within reach, if you dont address the supply problem?

Developers are actually doing a pretty big solid that goes relatively unheard of in the media lately, building developments such as Cressey's NEON, at the foot of the granville street bridge, which is a 100% rental building owned and operated by the developer. The most expensive 2 bedroom is $1700 a month i believe and small 1 bedrooms are hovering at or below $1000 a month, pretty decent considering the location.

Vancouver is an ultra desirable place to be with world class facilities, culture, bla bla bla, people are paying the prices because they want to be here.

Even if you're on the side that it isnt a world class city, it's a hell of a lot nicer than a lot of places that are considered them.
__________________
Dank memes cant melt steel beams

Last edited by Hondaracer; 06-01-2017 at 12:50 PM.
Hondaracer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 12:43 PM   #9857
y'all better put some respeck on my name
 
Harvey Specter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 18,343
Thanked 9,386 Times in 2,408 Posts
Failed 393 Times in 159 Posts
Don't know much about Surrey RE but there's still homes in the Bolivar Park area of Surrey for $750ish. Huge lots as well.
Harvey Specter is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 06-01-2017, 12:45 PM   #9858
Ready to be Man handled by RS!
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 95
Thanked 43 Times in 20 Posts
Failed 5 Times in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Specter View Post
Don't know much about Surrey RE but there's still homes in the Bolivar Park area of Surrey for $750ish. Huge lots as well.
That would be Whalley wouldn't it?
roopi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 12:46 PM   #9859
My homepage has been set to RS
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: East Van
Posts: 2,160
Thanked 854 Times in 422 Posts
Failed 22 Times in 18 Posts
New West has reached insanity levels that were previously reserved for Vancouver and Burnaby. Was going to go look at a unit yesterday, but it already sold for 70,000 over asking. A decent 2 bedroom in New West is approx 550 to 600k as of now. You can find a few in the 500k price range, but they aren't the greatest.
Liquid_o2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 12:53 PM   #9860
y'all better put some respeck on my name
 
Harvey Specter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 18,343
Thanked 9,386 Times in 2,408 Posts
Failed 393 Times in 159 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by roopi View Post
That would be Whalley wouldn't it?
Oh, I didn't know that area was considered Whalley lol.
Harvey Specter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 12:54 PM   #9861
y'all better put some respeck on my name
 
Harvey Specter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 18,343
Thanked 9,386 Times in 2,408 Posts
Failed 393 Times in 159 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid_o2 View Post
New West has reached insanity levels that were previously reserved for Vancouver and Burnaby. Was going to go look at a unit yesterday, but it already sold for 70,000 over asking. A decent 2 bedroom in New West is approx 550 to 600k as of now. You can find a few in the 500k price range, but they aren't the greatest.
Any 2 bedroom condo/townhome in the GVA is red hot atm especially older units which had larger floor plans. It's mostly couples and families who are fueling the prices.
Harvey Specter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 01:07 PM   #9862
God of Unce
 
Armind's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ASOT
Posts: 7,828
Thanked 167 Times in 43 Posts
Failed 285 Times in 103 Posts
Speaking of Surrey...

Here's a list of all the upcoming changes, more towers coming.

https://urbansurrey.com/surrey-city-...tive-projects/
__________________
UNCE! UNCE! UNCE! UNCE! UNCE! UNCE! UNCE! UNCE! UNCE!
Armind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 01:28 PM   #9863
14 dolla balla aint got nothing on me!
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Richmond
Posts: 619
Thanked 676 Times in 228 Posts
Failed 45 Times in 27 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by roopi View Post
That would be Whalley wouldn't it?
Didn't know beggars can be choosers as well..
kr4l is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 06-01-2017, 01:50 PM   #9864
Rs has made me the woman i am today!
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Langley
Posts: 4,086
Thanked 3,375 Times in 1,279 Posts
Failed 92 Times in 70 Posts
Sad when the difference between beggers and choosers was the year they bought their place, and not the amount of money they make.

How many current homeowners would be Whalley or bust if they bought now instead of 10 years ago.
MarkyMark is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 06-01-2017, 01:55 PM   #9865
God of Unce
 
Armind's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ASOT
Posts: 7,828
Thanked 167 Times in 43 Posts
Failed 285 Times in 103 Posts
A duplex right in the fuckin middle of the new developments in Surrey central is going for 5M. $$$$$$
__________________
UNCE! UNCE! UNCE! UNCE! UNCE! UNCE! UNCE! UNCE! UNCE!
Armind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 01:55 PM   #9866
OMGWTFBBQ is a common word I say everyday
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 5,021
Thanked 2,531 Times in 1,151 Posts
Failed 81 Times in 54 Posts
https://www.zolo.ca/port-moody-real-...anie-drive/228

It's tough to find value in the condo market right now, but this seems like a good value and is under priced compared to others. Built in side income in an area where surface parking is scarce and time restricted.
Tapioca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 02:04 PM   #9867
Old School RS
 
lowside67's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Port Moody
Posts: 4,596
Thanked 4,042 Times in 1,232 Posts
Failed 129 Times in 79 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapioca View Post
https://www.zolo.ca/port-moody-real-...anie-drive/228

It's tough to find value in the condo market right now, but this seems like a good value and is under priced compared to others. Built in side income in an area where surface parking is scarce and time restricted.
Those parking spots are actually really not worth much - there are pretty much always some for rent at $50/month. That is very expensive for an 818sf unit in the oldest building in the complex, I expect that unit will sell more in the $429k range. I am not counting on our unit breaking $500k (although recent sales suggest it probably will) and we have 975sf on the ground floor with a yard.

Mark
__________________
I'm old now - boring street cars and sweet race cars.
lowside67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 02:06 PM   #9868
Head of HR....have a seat on that couch
 
fliptuner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 21,877
Thanked 15,598 Times in 4,324 Posts
Failed 284 Times in 130 Posts
It's only under priced when it sells for that much.
__________________
feedback

Originally posted by v.b.
can we stop, my pussy hurts...
Originally posted by asian_XL
fliptuner, I am gonna grab ur dick and pee in your face, then rub shit all over my face...:lol
Originally posted by Fei-Ji
haha i can taste the cum in my mouth
Originally posted by FastAnna
when I was 13 I wanted to be a video hoe so bad


RSUV #7
fliptuner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 04:18 PM   #9869
Willing to sell a family member for a few minutes on RS
 
westopher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North vancouver
Posts: 12,549
Thanked 32,163 Times in 7,478 Posts
Failed 211 Times in 159 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp View Post
Just because you are born here doesn't give you more rights than others. Don't like the fact you can't own? Make changes to your life. Buy farther away from the city, share a rental unit with friends to cut cost down, get a 2nd part time job, spend less. There is always a choice but I guess that's too much to ask.
I wasn't born here.
I can afford it.
The difference here is that I care that we have a community being a possibility. A place where teachers can afford to live. A place where kids have a hope of buying a home one day. A place where my employees don't have to live in a mold filled shithole. A place where people don't become so dejected from being underemployed to survive that good people leave.
It takes people from all socioeconomic backgrounds to make a decent place to live, otherwise, who the fuck is going to pour me my 6 dollar americano?
Again, your "I've got mine and I deserve it" attitude shines through.
There's lots of people that deserve it that won't/can't get it because they aren't as lucky as others.
There should be hope of being successful for our young people.
__________________
98 technoviolet M3/2/5
Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfever View Post
Westopher is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsy82 View Post
seems like you got a dick up your ass well..get that checked
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkwax View Post
Well.. I’d hate to be the first to say it, but Westopher is correct.
westopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 04:39 PM   #9870
Rs has made me the woman i am today!
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burnaby
Posts: 4,063
Thanked 6,789 Times in 1,652 Posts
Failed 213 Times in 86 Posts
^I called dude out in the provincial election thread because he was going on about how NDP policy fucked him...which means he's 40+, or lying.

All that shit about living frugally in the basement saving up for down-payment being the key, and how entitled pricks who drink 4 lattes a day are just bitching about things, kinda loses its persuasiveness if you're 40+, or a liar. He's yet to respond.

Anyway, to avoid fight club, I'm late 20s making decent $ for Vancouver, and I still think I'll be stretched thin if I buy a place, start a family etc. And I don't drink lattes.

I can only imagine what the 23 year olds who just got out of school with loads of student debt feel like when they can't get a job here because entry $35K positions require 5 years experience, and a 500sq/ft shoebox costs $400K, if you're lucky enough to be selected to even think of buying one.

And to those that say shit like well should've got a degree that counts, or should have gone in to trades -- wtf. As Westopher said, it takes a variety of people from different backgrounds to make a community, especially one as diverse as Vancouver. So, what, Vancouver should only be filled with electricians, plumbers and accountants that all live in some basement with 2 other people until they can save up?

It's not just choices that carve a life for a human being, it's circumstances too. And in the current RE environment, if you have shitty circumstances, then you don't have a lot of fucking choices.
inv4zn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 07:39 PM   #9871
GS8
I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
 
GS8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: The Fruit Loops
Posts: 3,622
Thanked 7,506 Times in 2,033 Posts
Failed 173 Times in 83 Posts
Growing up in Vancouver my whole life, I've watched its heart and soul slowly wither away. If it wasn't for the strong food & drink culture and the people who didn't succumb to this 'work to death, be happy' mentality, I wouldn't recognize this city anymore.

I've pretty much given up on home ownership unless something magical happens. As long as I have some kind of shelter, I won't complain. As long as I have money in the bank, I won't complain. As long as I have some kind of job, I won't complain. I've never expressed greed before hence why I'd only buy a home to live in it. Growing up middle-lower class gave me that perspective and I should be thankful.

My parents' generation had it very well. I don't have it as well. I hope the next generation doesn't have it worse. All my friends with kids worry about what future lies in front of their kids.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GS8 View Post
When I think about ewe, I touch myself
GS8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 11:45 PM   #9872
reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.
 
Mr.HappySilp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 10,645
Thanked 2,191 Times in 1,131 Posts
Failed 929 Times in 340 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traum View Post
Winnipeg has some very, very nice and friendly people. At the same time, it is often scorching hot in the summer (close to 30°C) and riddled with mosquitoes, and damn dry cold in the winter. As an interior city, of course it won't flourish or attract newcomers like Vancouver does.

As an equivalent example, why don't you compare DTES or Whalley to Shaughnessy?


Metro Vancouver housing has already become a commodity when those who work here can't afford to live here. Even if we were to go with your definition of what constitute housing as commodity, do you even realize that CoV has a near zero (residential) vacancy rate? It gets easier as you move further out, but even renting is not that easy (or cheap).


This has to be the biggest BS I've heard in a while.

Vancouver housing ranked 3rd most unaffordable by international study - British Columbia - CBC News

The news article is only dated in late January 2017. That means I count 2 other cities that has more expensive housing than Vancouver does. TWO.

Next time you are about to spew your BS, please do a little fact checking first.
Try Beijing, Hong Kong, Tokyo, San Fran, , New York, Seoul. Earning middle class income will never ever net your a an apartment let alone a house. Maybe next time you need a reality check and maybe dig a little deeper.

But hey since all you can do search the internet but haven't really travel around guess you are 100% right. That website you link did they tell you how they measure which city is the most expensive. Is it purely rate by Avg home price VS avg income? Did it take into account the avg spending as well?Did the report only compare price of central city or does it take into with rural area housing price as well?

Do you have personal experience with Vancouver or have you actually looking at/study/experience with other city real estate?
Mr.HappySilp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 11:55 PM   #9873
reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.
 
Mr.HappySilp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 10,645
Thanked 2,191 Times in 1,131 Posts
Failed 929 Times in 340 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by inv4zn View Post
^I called dude out in the provincial election thread because he was going on about how NDP policy fucked him...which means he's 40+, or lying.

All that shit about living frugally in the basement saving up for down-payment being the key, and how entitled pricks who drink 4 lattes a day are just bitching about things, kinda loses its persuasiveness if you're 40+, or a liar. He's yet to respond.

Anyway, to avoid fight club, I'm late 20s making decent $ for Vancouver, and I still think I'll be stretched thin if I buy a place, start a family etc. And I don't drink lattes.

I can only imagine what the 23 year olds who just got out of school with loads of student debt feel like when they can't get a job here because entry $35K positions require 5 years experience, and a 500sq/ft shoebox costs $400K, if you're lucky enough to be selected to even think of buying one.

And to those that say shit like well should've got a degree that counts, or should have gone in to trades -- wtf. As Westopher said, it takes a variety of people from different backgrounds to make a community, especially one as diverse as Vancouver. So, what, Vancouver should only be filled with electricians, plumbers and accountants that all live in some basement with 2 other people until they can save up?

It's not just choices that carve a life for a human being, it's circumstances too. And in the current RE environment, if you have shitty circumstances, then you don't have a lot of fucking choices.
Turing 35 actually and there are tons of people on RS who are around the same age who actually have a house or two already.

Want to get something you want? Work for it. How do all these people make money. Maybe some luck but sure as well they work hard. Can't afford to live in Vancouver then move. Maybe move to Port Coq, Langley. Far away from the Vancouver. Housing is cheap when you move out. See I hate people who complain but does nothing to change their life.

Here is something to read for though
Sean Cooper pays off mortgage in 3 years and earns online hate - Business - CBC News
He is case is rare and extreme. But guess what? He is willing to makes changes to his lifestyle. He is willing to suck it up. He is willing to work 7 days a week to get what he wants.
Mr.HappySilp is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 06-01-2017, 11:59 PM   #9874
I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
 
Matsuda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 3,829
Thanked 6,590 Times in 1,166 Posts
Failed 68 Times in 23 Posts
regarding poor build quality of new condos

__________________
artofstance
artofstance on facebook
artofstance on Instagram
artofstance on twitter
Proud member of GRAPE Great Revscene Action Photographers Enthusiasts
--------------------------------------------
2018 Volkswagen Golf R
1999 Mazda Miata *sold*
2005 Mazda 3 *sold*
2002 Volvo S40 *RIP*
1989 Volvo 740 *RIP*
Matsuda is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 06-02-2017, 12:21 AM   #9875
My dinner reheated before my turbo spooled
 
Ludepower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,738
Thanked 939 Times in 308 Posts
Failed 206 Times in 75 Posts
^

What building and developer is that. They deserved to be called out.
Ludepower is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Revscene.net cannot be held accountable for the actions of its members nor does the opinions of the members represent that of Revscene.net