Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[Tone Loc]

Luckily I have parents who are willing to give me a bit of money from when they downsize (3bed/2.5bath is too much for two empty nesters). My GF's parents have a fair amount of savings as well and are willing to chip in. But that's not for a while, she's still doing her Masters and we are both OK with renting until very late 20s.

I just turned 25, started my career this year. Making 58k/year gross. Salary cap is 82k/year after 4 years. Luckily there is ton of overtime during the winter so I'm hoping to make 20% more than those figures. Had to relocate to Toronto for this job and just finished paying off school and all my moving-related costs. Literally started saving 3 months ago. Long road ahead of me.

That being said I am saving a little change for an FK8 Type R in the near future.....

[Ch28]

Originally Posted by quasi

My first place only required 5% down, 2001 I think it was? I was 25 and my 3 bedroom townhouse cost me a massive $153,000, down payment of $7,650. I can't remember but I think we had saved about $20,000 which paid the down payment misc costs and allowed us to buy some furniture. The market was pretty flat when we bought had been for a while. Eventually we upgraded to a house which is where we're at now.

It's a completely different world now, I feel for anyone trying to get into the market now.

[adrnlnrush00]

Since we are sharing stories.

I come from a low-income immigrant family and my parents had their own struggles just putting food on the table and keeping a roof over our heads. They never did have much to give me other than what were the essentials as previously stated.

I worked entry-level customer service oriented jobs from 15-25 years old and was able to save about $11,000. This was during a time where, although I still lived at home with my parents, I managed my own expenses for everything else including car, entertainment and school. At 25, I was living in Surrey and had just finished a diploma program in financial management. Got a decent job in retail banking and was making better money. The City of Surrey had this Home Ownership Assistance Program ("HOAP", aptly named because Surrey was such a shithole in the Whalley area at the time) marketed to first time home buyers but the biggest qualifying criteria was that only new homes in the Central City Surrey area would qualify and you had to live in the new home as your principal residence. If you met the qualifying criteria then the City of Surrey will loan you $20,000 for five years interest-free and, each year, $2K would be forgiven so that you'd only pay $10K at the end of the term. Further, if at the end of the term, you still live in the same property, the City will not demand repayment until such time that the property is sold or is no longer your principal residence.

Anyways, I bought that condo in Surrey in 2005 for $145K and it completed in 2007. This was my entry into the real estate market. Since then, my wife and I had gradually moved up the property ladder from condo to townhouse to detached home in Surrey, then, townhouse in Burnaby and, finally, our detached home in Vancouver. Each time, we took the equity we had in the current home to upgrade to the next home.

It wasn't easy. Both my wife and I have good paying jobs but what really made the difference was that I went the self-employed route in 2015. Without the income potential of being self-employed I'm certain we would not have been able to afford the house that we are currently in.

Yes, I'm an 80's baby and I had my own struggles. But I'm really concerned for those who were born in the 90's. I just can't imagine being able to do the same things as a 90's baby unless I had some significant help such as from parents.

Our struggles are all relative to our time. Good luck to those of you trying to enter the market... I wish you all the good fortune you'll need.

[yray]

isn't it a pain the ass the get a mortgage by being self employed?

[GS8]

When I was growing up, I was taught that trades were blue collar and only meant for meatheads and alcoholics. When you look at what a lot of office work entails, the irony becomes delicious

I never based my 'success' on what was in my bank account / portfolio. Being able to live in the black every month in a region like this is successful enough for me. My grandparents were dirt poor, my parents were lower-middle working class and I am working class while my brother is potentially upper-working class. I say potentially because he keeps getting offers for a six figure salary job he won't take because he has two young kids he wants to raise first.

I believe his kids will be fine in their futures provided they don't shoot for the stereotypical big goals we all dreamed about as kids. Keep them realistic, expect a lot of obstacles but approach each one calmly and collectively.

[adrnlnrush00]

Originally Posted by yray

isn't it a pain the ass the get a mortgage by being self employed?

Yes, it's a pain in the ass to get a mortgage when you're self-employed. It's difficult in the best of times but even more difficult when we are in periods of strict lending guidelines like we are now.

What helped me the most is that I have a financial management background and, as a self-employed CPA, my business does not fluctuate nearly as much as other types of businesses. With my background, I was able to prepare professional looking pro-forma financial statements under pessimistic, conservative and optimistic scenarios and was able to show that my wife and I would be able to manage the mortgage payments even under a pessimistic scenario. It also helped that, historically, my business had achieved results that were consistent with conservative or better scenarios so I was able to convey that to my mortgage specialist.

All that being said, it really helped that my mortgage specialist was able to take all the information that I gave her and she conveyed my story to the risk management department in Toronto. She even got her regional VP to plead my case to risk management too.

TLDR: As a self-employed person, it's difficult to get a mortgage, but it's not impossible.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Wanted some advice from RSers.

As people know I sold my apartment and after all the commission I should have around 600k. I was going to get a 2 bedroom apartment. Talked my parents and they also live in an apartment and is feeling they actually wanted to live in a house. They suggested they could sell their place as well (roughly they should get 780k to 800k) and we can get a townhouse/Duplex together. We can get a place with 2 separate entrance and 2 kitchen etc etc/ Basically I can live downstairs and they can live upstairs.

I can see with this we can have a bigger place overall, less strata fees for both of us, the place will worth more in the long run. Since I go back to my parents place for dinner 2 to 3 times a week this would also save on travel time. I can also look after them. In the future if I have any kids they can also help take care of them.

The bad part is bad property tax will most likely go up (even though my parents are retire I can just up the place under their name). Even though I would paid 40% of the place others people might still view me as living with my parents and haven't grown up at all. Less freedom even though there are separate entrance I am pretty sure my parents would do what parents do (like asking how come I sleep so late etc etc.....)

Talk a few friends about this. Some of the older, more mature friends feel this is a actually a good choice, while the younger ones feel this is a bad move because they feel how will you tell your gf you still live at home even though you pay 40% of the place. They feel it will also be tough for a girl to live with your parents even though is separate.

Financially speaking is a good idea, also I feel if my gf is mature enough she will understand this as well, but after what some of my friends said I am not sure now.....

[Ch28]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

I can see with this we can have a bigger place overall, less strata fees for both of us, the place will worth more in the long run. Since I go back to my parents place for dinner 2 to 3 times a week this would also save on travel time. I can also look after them. In the future if I have any kids they can also help take care of them.

I say go for it. I think as Asians, we've all become accustomed to living with our parents and the benefits far outweigh the negatives. You're already spending time with them a few times a week already, so why not cut the commute and move in together?

Yeah, it sucks cause you guys will share the same roof, but anyone that gives you shit for living in the same place as your parents isn't really a good friend anyways. You're paying for almost half of the house, which is a lot more than what others can say. You lose some freedom because of their proximity to you, but if your parents are usually pretty good about giving you space then you'll be fine. You'll both have separate entrances, so even if you bring a girl back, it's not like they'll need to meet the parents before you guys 'chill'

GF and I are both looking at places right now and we've both decided we want to live relatively close to both our parents. Like you said, they'll be a huge help with taking care of the babies, and it's also nice knowing that if anything happened to them and they needed our immediate help that it won't take us 30+ minutes in traffic to get to them.

[Bonka]

$

[IGTBAR]

The last few pages of posts reminds me of the Personal Finance articles on the Financial Post where they outline the financial health of a couple or single individual. I've always loved those articles as it offers insight and benchmarks into where you (or your parents) are at compared to your potential peers.

Anyways, I'll bite:

Graduated from university debt free due to a combination of living at home, working part time and co-ops. My first full time salary job out of university in 2006 was for $36,000 and a few months after starting this job I moved out and paid $600/month for my share of a 2 bedroom apartment with a roommate. When I first started this job, I had about $5,000 to my name. I was at this job for just over 12 months and saved at least 50% of my salary - which was easy because I had no car and no debt. I was about 22/23 years old.

I left this job because an opportunity came up where I was doing what I really wanted to do and the salary jump was significant - $55,000. I was at this company for 6 years, where I worked my way up, was promoted a few times and by the time I left, I was making around $85,000.

The key thing here is that for the entire 6 years, I was living in the same apartment, paying $600/month, 10 minutes from downtown. I made a conscious effort to not subscribe to lifestyle inflation, so despite making more than double what I was making 6 years prior, with every raise and bonus, I put it immediately into savings and lived like I was still making $36,000. I still managed to have fun, go to concerts, eat out with friends and travel each year, but I watched my expenses like a hawk, read personal finance blogs before they were really a thing and invested aggressively in my retirement savings.

The result of this was that I put $150,000 down on my $360,000 condo in 2011, which is worth about $620,000 today.

I left that company 5 years ago and am now at a different company. When I joined this new company, I was making about $95,000. Five years later, I am now at about $130,000 after bonus, stock, profit sharing are taken into consideration.

When my husband and I got married, he was of a similar mindset. He was actually more frugal than I was and I have to remind him that it's ok, you can spend that $5 on a coffee and it's fine. When we met, he had his own condo which he purchased in 2009/2010 and he had put down about 50% on it as well (purchase price was $300,000). It's worth about $600,000 today.

Our next step is to liquidate one or both homes, combine some savings and upgrade to a detached before we have kids. We will have about $700,000 to $800,000 as a downpayment if we sell both condos.

Part of it is timing, yes, but a large part of it is having a budget and sticking to it. And also being picky when it comes to prospective partners. I'm not saying date for financial security (date for love and attraction obviously), but I think red flags definitely need to be raised when someone comes into a relationship with a large amount of consumer debt. Emphasis on consumer. I've seen too many couples break up when fiscal values don't align. It leads to fighting, resentment, blame-shifting and just an overall poor quality of life.

I can't stress the budget piece enough. I use YNAB and it's been a game changer. MINT and other tools is more like a system of record where it tracks your spending, but YNAB actually helps you allocate each dollar a job. I've been using it for 2 years (used Mint and spreadsheets in the past) and I wouldn't go back.

[Tone Loc]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

Talk a few friends about this. Some of the older, more mature friends feel this is a actually a good choice, while the younger ones feel this is a bad move because they feel how will you tell your gf you still live at home even though you pay 40% of the place. They feel it will also be tough for a girl to live with your parents even though is separate.

Financially speaking is a good idea, also I feel if my gf is mature enough she will understand this as well, but after what some of my friends said I am not sure now.....

I'm pretty young. But honestly if your friends are going to judge you for living at home then fuck them. They're not your friends.

Ditto for females. I don't know how old you are. But the majority of females my age judge guys for living at home while they themselves make 30k a year and waste what little income they make on designer bags and base model CLA250 leases while - surprise surprise - still living at home.

In this day and age where the cost of moving out is what it is, I don't know anybody in my age group besides myself and my girlfriend, who don't live at home. I'm 25. Majority of my friends are older (27-30) and live at home as well in order to save for a down payment, that's just how it is these days.

That being said.......

It really depends on your relationship with your parents. Personally I would never do it because mine is not that great. And my girlfriend would never do it either because hers is even worse. Hence why we moved out and live less comfortably material-wise in exchange for privacy and relaxation. I make roughly 3000-3500 net per month. Roughly 60-70% of that goes into living costs. Sometimes I think about living at home and banking 90% of all that pay. But I think of how my parents were extremely strict and over protective, not to mention helicopter parents until well into my 20s. Me and my now-gf initially bonded over how neither of us had been to a sleepover until a) I turned 19 and b) she moved out at age 20. Neither of us were allowed to go to Metrotown with our friends until 18. I could never imagine living in that type of household again.

Needless to say the dynamic you have with your family should be the deciding factor. Could you deal with seeing them literally every single day? Could your current or future partner deal with it? Especially at the start of a relationship where you guys want the privacy to do things...

[CivicBlues]

Is this the thread where I brag about how much money I make and/or how lucky I was to be born 10-20 years earlier than the poor saps that have to deal with this mess now?

Anyway my advice: live your life, experience things and don't base your entire life around shit like this. If you want to own a house, your best bet is to move out of this city and never look back. Otherwise you can start working on that multi-million dollar business idea of yours. Or you can buy a condo, townhouse, a van. Or you can live with your parents, or....(the horror) rent. You'll find a way to make things work out, trust me. I read a lot of inspiring stories (read: humblebrag), but nothing that can really be gleamed from or learned for a 22 year old fresh out of school in a heap of debt and home prices rising 15% yoy. Your experiences are yours alone and one size does not fit all.

I'm not going to post my life story but suffice to say I'm a relatively new homeowner and make a comfortable living- as does my partner. Are we any happier than when I was renting and poorer? Hell no. We were probably happier and lived life more spontaneously. Now every decision we make is now framed around what to do with the overpriced box we purchased. Which makes me sad to see a bunch of younger 20 somethings become obsessed with this. The true tragedy of this housing crisis is that it's robbed us of your youth.

Just look at it this way. In 20 years when people are all automated out of employment YOU will be the hated, entitled, and rich (but you won't feel it) millennials that sold out your children's livelihood.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by Ch28

You're already spending time with them a few times a week already, so why not cut the commute and move in together?

You lose some freedom because of their proximity to you, but if your parents are usually pretty good about giving you space then you'll be fine. You'll both have separate entrances, so even if you bring a girl back, it's not like they'll need to meet the parents before you guys 'chill'

That's the one thing I am considering. I mean after dinner hell I just want to sit on a couch and relax and even some days I just want to go home and relax after work.

As far as privacy goes. I think they respect my privacy a lot. Back when I was living with them they never went into my room even though I leave my room door unlock. Even now I give them keys and fob to my apartment whenever they are coming they would call just to make sure is ok. Is not like they come a lot too when I am not at home. Usually they would shop around metrotown and got tired and needed a place to rest up or show their friends around my place (show off I guess). It never bother me giving them the keys and fob coz I trust them.

Originally Posted by Bonka

I started paying all the household bills the moment I started my career at 19. A couple years in I realized I was making good money and went to get approved for a mortgage.

As much as you hear about the negatives of living with your parents, there are positives, and it's even more glaring when you start a family. My wife and I can run in and out of the house for errands and leave the kid with my mom for an hour with no notice. We don't take advantage of it, again with my mother's health but she is more than happy to oblige. As much as privacy always seems to be a concern, it's no different from being shoehorned with neighbours in a highrise. I have a yard, my own parking and I can do whatever the hell I want.

As far as the bill goes we haven't discuss it yet but I think it will be 50%. I still give my parents a few hundred dollars even month now. I guess maybe is for grocery since I do go back pretty often for dinner. My parents health are pretty good they still go to the park everyday to exercise and go on hikes (maybe even more healthy than me).

To be honest living in an apartment have pros and cons. Pros being very quiet. I don't hear any noise at all and I have A/C. Is central condition so heat, A/C and gas in included in the strata fee which is nice. I only pay electrically which is like less than $20 a month. The bad part is having for wait for elevators could take a few mins(even when there are 3 elevators), you have to pay strata fee even when you don't use the amenities and there are a lot of restrictions when it comes to reno. Some people that live in the apartment are also pretty bad.

Originally Posted by Tone Loc

I'm pretty young. But honestly if your friends are going to judge you for living at home then fuck them. They're not your friends.

Ditto for females. I don't know how old you are.

That being said.......

It really depends on your relationship with your parents.

I am in my mid 30s so that's setup will likely be for the next 7 to 10 years? That's one of the main reason to sell my apartment coz I want a bigger place for the future. My relationship with my parents have also been decent to good. They don't really interfere with my life at all unless they see something is horribly wrong (like not going to work 5 days in a row or all of a sudden take up smoking or gambling etc etc...). They always try to respect my privacy so it is unlikely they will even come downstairs even if we live together. Heck they have keys to my apartment now but never come unless they call and let me know they are coming.

[Acurapinoy]

Do what is best for you and your family. If living together gives a financial freedom then do it. If your friends egg you on for living with them then I'm sure they are just jealous and you dont need that negative vibes. That's just me though. Only you know what will make you happy..do it and don't look back

[Hondaracer]

Dont see how living in a duplex or even a shared single family home would be looked down upon, especially if you made some moves and built some equity to get into that situation. I'd live with my parents again, and a similar situation as you describe could be in the cards for us down the road, but things change as well.

i know we've had this conversation before but paying strata sucks, and for the most part, it sucks even more in townhouse developments because typically you get zero amenities out of it. Somone might come cut your grass once a week but usually everyones gardens are over grown, people dont keep their exteriors clean, etc.

As least in a high rise you kinda see the fruits of your payments going to upkeep of things you use ever day, and keep the building pretty.

[yray]

hows your SO and moms relationship.Not just talking about dim sum and dinner but full on living together. Maybe go on a a week trip together to test waters first?

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by Tone Loc

Ditto for females. I don't know how old you are. But the majority of females my age judge guys for living at home while they themselves make 30k a year and waste what little income they make on designer bags and base model CLA250 leases while - surprise surprise - still living at home.

Haha, this is like 80% of the girls I know. I love it when they take like a nail photo in front of the steering wheel to flex the CLA250 on IG.

[68style]

I had a 32 year old girl with no car who did makeup sales at the Bay and lived at home on my first date with her scoff at me and ask me why I hadn’t planned ahead for a family by buying at least a townhouse instead of a condo! I would have loved to see the incredulous look on my face at the time... lol

[Gerbs]

That must've been hilarious at the time.

[GS8]

Then there's Tinder which has more trainwrecks than Amtrak.

[JDMStyo]

Great stories - happy to share some of our clients but for every one complaining on an internet forum, there's the guys and gals hauling overtime somewhere on a moonlight gig to make that extra dollar.

On presales front - LINEA (Rize) is about 90% sold after one weekend and few days of public sales. $900-1000/ft for Surrey Central area high rise. Sister building to WAVE which is 3 years old.

[Hondaracer]

To think 10 years ago people were saying how crazy yaletown was at $1000/sq ft

[twitchyzero]

my agent (i'm in the market to buy) said there's listings coming up through his office

is there a conflict of interest? even if if it's a different agent but same firm?

[yray]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

To think 10 years ago people were saying how crazy yaletown was at $1000/sq ft

developers think it'll hit 2k

[Tapioca]

What's interesting about the market now is that there seems to be a greater acceptance in the white community about living in multi-generational homes. We are now seeing homes being built to accommodate multi-generational families - zoning for laneway homes outside of Vancouver proper, lock-off suites in townhouses, and so on. I remember the debate about monster homes in the 1990s - they were built to accommodate multiple generations of families.

The difference maker between owning a detached home vs a townhouse or high-end condo is child care costs. We have two kids and our child care costs are higher than our monthly mortgage payments. If we had our parents take care of our kids full time, we could probably buy something close to a million dollars and carry the costs comfortably given our equity.