Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[kula]

Originally Posted by Sw0op

why dont you go take the course and sell the house yourself then...you'll save a lot of money that way or go with the 1% brokers and watch it sit for 6 months then

yes realtors are overpaid...but in the end its a sales job and most sales job are overpaid..you get paid to talk/negotiate and get the job done....if ya dont like it..DIY

Are licensed realtors allowed to sell their own properties? A realtor once told me that they are not even allowed to represent family members for transactions due to conflict of interest....but I don't know if he's BSing me to get me to hire him.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by kula

Are licensed realtors allowed to sell their own properties? A realtor once told me that they are not even allowed to represent family members for transactions due to conflict of interest....but I don't know if he's BSing me to get me to hire him.

They can get in trouble for selling their own property.

[tr0ubl3s0m3x]

Banning foreign ownership will do nothing. What the government should do is have it where you need to show how much income tax you're paying. If you're paying nothing, you cant purchase a home here. It's not the foreign ownership, it's the foreign money.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by Sw0op

And think on the flip side she probably didn’t give a rats ass trying to maximize your sale price figuring she should half ass it since she was giving you a cut on commission but it’s okay as long as you’re saving on the sale commission right?

Everyone can sell a good place in a good location...but how would you feel to sell this $100 bill for $95 just so you can save a bit on commission

Got the price I want to sell my place at so is all good. Maybe I could get a bit more with other offers but is a risk. She was about to sell the unit at the price I wanted to sell it at so I am happy. The price is inline with with the market so is not like I sold for less than is worth.

But hey like what others have said even top realtors are willing to take a cut a take of their commission to get your business maybe you should do that too instead of complaining?

[quasi]

Originally Posted by Sw0op

why dont you go take the course and sell the house yourself then...you'll save a lot of money that way or go with the 1% brokers and watch it sit for 6 months then

yes realtors are overpaid...but in the end its a sales job and most sales job are overpaid..you get paid to talk/negotiate and get the job done....if ya dont like it..DIY

I actually thought about it just so I could get half the commission on the home I purchase, I negotiate million dollar construction projects all the time it can't be that different. I could do some of the course online in my spare time and finish the rest in class. There's a great thread on how to do it on redflagdeals, it's actually surprising how easy it is to become a realtor in Canada. If I wasn't already taking classes at night I probably would.

As far as doing it for a living I think I was a snake oil salesman in another life, I'm not about that anymore.

I should preface this with I know there are some good realtors out there who work hard and even bad ones that work hard I'm not saying it's not work. What I'm saying is the commissions being charged do not match the work being provided. The "average" rates being charged today were brought into place at a time when houses were sub 100K to 300K, they have not been adjusted to reflect today's market.

[Nabatron]

^totally agree! I mean if the realtor has a big team then I can understand them charging a chunk of change for commission. But just a single realtor with no team behind them shouldn't be charging the same amount as a realtor with a team.

[hud 91gt]

Really?^. The team can handle many properties at once. Why do they deserve more. They build the team to split the workload.

[Nabatron]

yeah not sure just rambling lol

[quasi]

Originally Posted by Sw0op

Everyone can sell a good place in a good location...but how would you feel to sell this $100 bill for $95 just so you can save a bit on commission

If the commission to sell that $100 bill was $10 and someone else offered to do it for $5 I'd still be ahead and probably alright with that.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by tr0ubl3s0m3x

Banning foreign ownership will do nothing. What the government should do is have it where you need to show how much income tax you're paying. If you're paying nothing, you cant purchase a home here. It's not the foreign ownership, it's the foreign money.

Kinda agree to this point. But we should go a bit further.

Foreign ownership is not the problem... heck, it's even not A problem.

The problem lies in the potential lucrative nature of speculating when the time and condition is right for the market.

What the government has to do, is to kill that gain.

I'd propose something along the line of taxing the shit out of any gain one has on RE if it's within 10years of ownership, and more so if it's not a principal residence. It could be gradual... say extremely heavy during first 2 years, than less and less all the way up to 10.

Even if you tax 90% on gains, it would make little to no impact to the average joes as a regular family simply don't change their house that often. Anyone who buys a house and only live in there for a year or two and then selling for profit has the potential to be speculating. Yes, there are exceptions, but as long as they aren't losing, it's fine.

When you kill any potential profit in speculating the market, the market would return to its true nature based on demand/supply.

An international student whose family can afford and think it makes sense can still buy a house if that's what they want. It's just we take away most of its profits (if any) so that profit stays local.

[Gerbs]

I was reading posts 4 years ago on this thread. I'll post some of the interesting stuff I find. However, I'm excited to see what the market will be like in the next 2 to 5 years. Seems like some condos are slowly dropping their listing prices by about 5%.

Originally Posted by yray

If CPA and CFA have such strict guidelines and training, why not RE.

I feel like if RE exams were as difficult as the CFA. We'd have like 95% less realtors. The exam requires such a breadth of knowledge in investing.

[Traum]

From reading your post, it makes me wonder how old and what life stage you're at, Hehe.

While I agree with some of your suggestions below, a 10 year window and taxes to actively discourage investment properties will create a LOT of problems.

Consider the path of a rather typical middle class person. Say you finish college / ugrad / trades school, have worked for a few years and saved up enough for a down payment. You may buy a bachelor / one bedroom suite when you're still a bachelor, or you may buy a 1 or 2 bedroom suite when you have a gf / first get married.

Now a couple of years passed -- it could be anywhere between 1 - 5 yrs, but let's say we use a 2 - 4 yrs time frame because that is typically what I have seen among my friends. The wife / gf gets preggers, and you need a new, bigger place. So you upsize to meet your changing family needs, and you want the government to penalize citizens for going through their normal trajectory in life?

Also quite common among typical middle class people is the purchasing of an investment property, and using it to generate rental income. Growing up, many of the people my parents or I know did something like that. It helps provides a supplemental income to the property owner, and it provides rental housing inventory for renters. Before rent became ridiculously expensive, this practice is hugely beneficial to both the property owners and renters. Why would anyone want to discourage that?

As is always the case since the 80's, life for the middle class is only getting harder, and yet they form the bedrock of society. Penalizing them for engaging in this type of common activities just isn't a good way to go, IMO.

Originally Posted by Hehe

The problem lies in the potential lucrative nature of speculating when the time and condition is right for the market.

What the government has to do, is to kill that gain.

I'd propose something along the line of taxing the shit out of any gain one has on RE if it's within 10years of ownership, and more so if it's not a principal residence. It could be gradual... say extremely heavy during first 2 years, than less and less all the way up to 10.

Even if you tax 90% on gains, it would make little to no impact to the average joes as a regular family simply don't change their house that often. Anyone who buys a house and only live in there for a year or two and then selling for profit has the potential to be speculating. Yes, there are exceptions, but as long as they aren't losing, it's fine.

When you kill any potential profit in speculating the market, the market would return to its true nature based on demand/supply.

An international student whose family can afford and think it makes sense can still buy a house if that's what they want. It's just we take away most of its profits (if any) so that profit stays local.

[Ch28]

Another thing to consider is that most of us are either trying to get into the housing market or looking to upgrade. In order to make that actually affordable, we'd need the market to have a huge correction. Problem with that is our parents most likely have a lot of wealth tied into their home(s), so a correction/crash would also hit their retirement as well. It's a double edged sword.

[Acurapinoy]

What would be a decent correction? I was browsing Surrey out of all places for a detached and it will cost me a minimum of 1mil for a decent home or about 900 for an older one. Personally I don't see a drastic change with value but none of us have a crystal ball. Full house rental is about 3k a month too.. fuxk that

[Acurapinoy]

Originally Posted by Ch28

We've been looking at listings for the past several months and haven't come up with something that we're in love with, so the search continues for us. However, the byproduct of seeing so many listings is coming to the realization that there are some fucking shitty realtors and some really good ones. You can generally get an idea of which one you're going to encounter when you look at a listing online and all they have are stock photos of the outside and lobby. We've also come across some listings where the RE agent obviously put a lot of though and effort into it with professional photos, 360 degree video, and a walk through. Stuff like that obviously takes time, money, and effort, so agents like that are worth their price.

Have you tried making any offers at all? And have those properties you seen sell yet?

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by Hehe

What the government has to do, is to kill that gain.

I'd propose something along the line of taxing the shit out of any gain one has on RE if it's within 10years of ownership, and more so if it's not a principal residence. It could be gradual... say extremely heavy during first 2 years, than less and less all the way up to 10.

That's killing real-estate as an investment option as a whole though. I think they just need regulations in place to ensure people are paying taxes on their rental income - interest and their capital gains on non principle residences. Otherwise RE > Stocks in terms of risk-adjusted returns cause a lot of people are avoiding the taxes.

[Ch28]

Originally Posted by Acurapinoy

Have you tried making any offers at all? And have those properties you seen sell yet?

Nah, we haven't put forth any formal offers because we haven't come up with a property that both of us absolutely love. We're upgrading from our current 1br 1ba to a 2br 2ba and it's going to be our new home for the next several years, so we want one that has all the checkmarks for both of us.

There was an open house for a townhome we saw that we didn't like because the inside was pretty run down from the previous renter. The owner rented the place for the whole 8 years that they had it. We drove past it a few weeks back and it was still on the market (good 4+ weeks)

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by Ch28

Another thing to consider is that most of us are either trying to get into the housing market or looking to upgrade. In order to make that actually affordable, we'd need the market to have a huge correction. Problem with that is our parents most likely have a lot of wealth tied into their home(s), so a correction/crash would also hit their retirement as well. It's a double edged sword.

Imo the consideration for the older generations who have zero savings outside of the value in their home shouldn’t have a bearing on keeping values in check.

I do agree with your concept and have touted that same thing in the past that a huge market correction that effectively destroys the older generations retirement and puts a massive strain on social assistance is probably worse fiscally than younger generations having to scrape tooth and nail to even rent.

However, for the most part those older generations should have done a better job saving for retirement. The general rule of thumb even 20+ years ago was a mortgage free residence and a million dollars in (fairly) liquid assets

I guarantee the majority of older families who live in east van etc are not even close to that goal

[Acurapinoy]

Im sure the older generations would want the market to get better rather than see their kids move out of town etc. But I will not blame them if they had a hard time saving especially if they had kids and a mortgage and just living life as we don't know what their jobs were and all that. But thats just me

[DA9ve]

I honestly have no issues with people who speculate. Yes it is for the wealthier who have capital but that's just how it is in this world. The wealthy simply have more chips to play on a bigger stage.

If the government were truly vested into cooling the real estate market from foreign capital, the better way would be to track where the funds are coming from.

For someone who earns and lives locally, the tax should be nominal but for those who are bringing outside capital , these "speculators/chinese/foreign investors,etc" should have to prove during tax season just exactly HOW these funds came to be (were they earned via Canadian companies/investments or ???).

I'd hate to say it but the government isn't really on our side when it comes to the housing crisis. Politicians can say all they want but when the influx of capital is dangling a carrot in front of you, would you say no ? Call me bleak or realistic, but that's just how i see it. I hear people shit talk the government this and that and complain about the markets that its out of reach bla bla bla but at the end of the day they shouldn't be relying on our government to bail anyone out.


edit:

just to comment about market corrections, yes i agree we are heading towards one where it would even the playing field (essentially heading towards a buyers market). in terms of overall prices, there really isnt a significant drop across the board (maybe the luxury detached homes out west) but everything else is pretty steady or if you were to argue a drop....maybe 10%? i would say for those looking to buy, dont wait too long on the side lines but rather just throw in an offer anyway (even a lowball). you wont know till you try and it also gives you the experience of going through "the deal" of buying a home. if you dont get shortlisted, then move on, but once you get considered, then now you enter the negotiation stage and thats when you should really do your due diligence (reading the strata, looking at pros and cons, home inspections,etc.) which are items which can scrutinize the property for a lowered cost or to back out if it really isnt for you. As Gretzky said, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."

[Hehe]

I don't agree that we'd kill the housing market as an investment even with a very harsh taxation in a decremental fashion if it's done accordingly (inflation matching, some leeway for new development.. etc).

My suggestion would not prevent people or corporations to invest into RE, but it would absolutely kill any short-term speculation in the market.

Shelter is basic human necessity for god sake. It can still be an investment, but it should NOT be a commodity to be speculating on.

My family invests extensively in RE (commercial though) so I'm not just some over-entitlement lunatic. But really... 10years lock would make little to no change in our decision making since most (I'd say all since I can't think of anything) of my family's investment are hold for 10+ years.

However, it would return the market to a much more rational one.

We don't need all joe-six-pack to be buying 2-3 condos that they are not going to live just because they think they can flip it in 2years for 30% profit. If you want to be an RE investor, focus on what matters (cashflow, cap rate... etc). If you can't do that, invest in something else.

[Ludepower]

Hold your horses.
There's been plenty of cooling measures that's already having an effect on current prices.
Dont be delusional thinking these flip flopping politicians are your saviors.

[Nabatron]

We bought our townhouse 4 years ago and we probably should have sold it couple years ago when the market was going crazy. At that time we didn't have a crystal ball, the wife and I were starting a family and thought we were going to live in the townhouse for awhile. When we noticed the market continuously climbing and with our frequent trips to Okanagan we decided this year was the time to get out of this rat race and move. The housing in Okanagan for a detached home is just a no brainer to move there.

Talking to one of my RE buddies I told him we were planning on moving. He said "oh did you try and look for any places ie detached homes around Langley area?" I said yeah for what we want it makes absolutely no sense money wise to spend that time of money on something here. He said that if we wanted a detached it would run us $850k for a fixer upper. I was like fuck that! Spending that much coin and to invest who knows another maybe 100k plus just to renovate didn't make any sense. With another child on the way and the wife wanting a back yard for the kids to play it just make sense for us to leave the lower main land. Don't get me wrong I do like it here but it gets to the point where it doesn't make sense money wise and home wise to stay here.

As someone said a few posts ago that the only way RE can fix itself is for housing to actually worth what the actual house is worth. I mean if the house is a tear down old piece of garbage but still selling for 900k just because of the land then people will just be forced to leave and move away. The rich will only be the ones to live in Vancouver while the no so middle class move out. I just don't see the market drastically dropping to the point where owning a detached house will be feasible for a lot of people.

[Acurapinoy]

Ya I don't see the prices going down too crazy myself..if it does then it will be bidding wars all over again lol. If I did have a townhouse pre-boom, I wouldn't think of upgrading even with kids. I'd probably just try to pay it off faster and enjoy (that's if I want to stay in LM). I do agree that paying almost a million for a fixer upper is nuts.

How much are the homes you are looking at the okanagan?

[Nabatron]

Anywhere from 599-under 700 just a no brainer for sure! Didn't think to myself I would want a detached home when we bought our townhouse but growing family and wanting a backyard for them things change lol