Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[320icar]

Total noob post but bear with me.

Yesterday my wife and I had the day off, went to tswassen mills to wander around and have lunch. On the way out we saw the startings if some huge developements right across the street. The 3 main groups we saw were

West Coast Estates ? TSAWWASSEN
https://www.onni.com/tsawwassenlanding/
https://tsawwassenshores.com

Websites are pretty vague with details. I do really like the area, but is that not First Nations land? I’m not sure what you call it when developers “lease” the land for like 100 years or something. Say a detached home starts at 600k, that just covers materials and building, not the land. So what happens after you pay your mortgage and want to give the house to your children?

I may be totally wrong but you guys have a lot of experience, maybe you can shed some light. Bad buy?

[Badhobz]

Yeah leaseholds are tricky since you technically don't own anything. Good for childless couples I guess but can't they just jack up your rent if they wanted to ? I remember reading some guys who have leaseholds in the UBC area protesting an increase in their yearly fee.

[HonestTea]

Originally Posted by 320icar

Total noob post but bear with me.

Yesterday my wife and I had the day off, went to tswassen mills to wander around and have lunch. On the way out we saw the startings if some huge developements right across the street. The 3 main groups we saw were

West Coast Estates ? TSAWWASSEN
https://www.onni.com/tsawwassenlanding/
https://tsawwassenshores.com

Websites are pretty vague with details. I do really like the area, but is that not First Nations land? I’m not sure what you call it when developers “lease” the land for like 100 years or something. Say a detached home starts at 600k, that just covers materials and building, not the land. So what happens after you pay your mortgage and want to give the house to your children?

I may be totally wrong but you guys have a lot of experience, maybe you can shed some light. Bad buy?

Leaseholds

[Hondaracer]

All those buildings around false creek in between science world and athletes village are all 100 year lease holds that are coming up I thought?

The thought was everyone would be booted and they’d build new high rises there but hasn’t happened yet I guess

[winson604]

Also a lot of the townhomes around Champlain are leasehold. On top of not actually owning the place one of the advantages is that the price is usually cheaper. It's sort of like leasing a car except in this case there is no pre agreed on price to buy it out when the lease is up because in this case you don't know what will happen after 100 years.

On negative to leasehold other than the obvious is once a leasehold get's close to the end banks do not like approving mortgages for them. In this instance it won't matter but there are some leaseholds around the City a.k.a False Creek who are in the sub 20 years to go mark and those would be hard to get a mortgage for.

[Great68]

Originally Posted by 320icar

Say a detached home starts at 600k, that just covers materials and building, not the land. So what happens after you pay your mortgage and want to give the house to your children?

Depends on what the lease agreement says, but usually landowner buys back structures at fair market value. Which, after 100 years of depreciation is probably 4/5ths of fuck all.

I may be totally wrong but you guys have a lot of experience, maybe you can shed some light. Bad buy?

The only real upside to leasehold is that it can get you into an area you otherwise couldn't afford to outright buy as a freehold. Everything else is a downside.
- Harder to get a mortgage for
- You'll never experience any property appreciation
- If you ever do need to sell your lease and move, it'll get much more difficult the less time left on the term
- Nothing to leave to beneficiaries

So bad buy unless you can live with the above.

[320icar]

Yeah. My wife and I rent (and are trying) and my parents have a 3 bdrm apt in Richmond. The rough plan would be to sell their place and buy a home with them (preferably with a detached suite for them). We love the island, but my dad still had a good 10 years to retirement and my mom doesn’t want to be that far from the rest of the family.

Buy a place, get that free child care from parents. Then watch them as they get older (my mom will definitely need assistance with health stuff). But we all hate Vancouver/Burnaby/Coquitlam. It’s a hard choice locally. Still far too many steps away though from purchasing a home

[Spoon]

Originally Posted by Great68

The only real upside to leasehold is that it can get you into an area you otherwise couldn't afford to outright buy as a freehold.

Probably works well for people who don't plan on having kids. It'll last them through their life time. Anyone who wants whatever value is remaining in the lease can deal with the headache after.

[JDMDreams]

I've looked at some of the Tawassen town houses too and the prices are definitely more affordable. However, based on my current work situation in Vancouver it's just to far with the tunnel and bridge to deal with. I think the new ones for sale right now has a 100 year lease or at least 70. So mortgage shouldn't be an issue as there is more than 30 years left. Basically no risk to bank cuz your mortgage will finish before the lease is up. Plus I don't think I'll live there for more than 20 years anyways before I upsize. Also there's no gst I believe or any of those speculation taxes because it's leasehold.

[twitchyzero]

https://vancouversun.com/business/co...er-up-for-sale

st paul's assessed at 784M

someone should lowball it for 0.6B, ghosts included

[Ludepower]

Future westbank luxury condo development marketed to China first for $3500 sqft. They'll be sure to crop out the surrounding area and not mention anything about ghost.

[Vansterdam]

tinsletown / international village is up for sale too

[68style]

Sell all of Vancouver off to foreign interests!!!

Even Thailand knows better than this approach............ and their government barely does any damn thing right

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by Vansterdam

tinsletown / international village is up for sale too

I am sure the owner is happy once he finds a buyer. That place just doesn't have enough footprint other than T&T, the theater and Starbucks. Even the McDonald's doesn't get much traffic.

[winson604]

Interested to feel what people think of this very common scenario.

- Parents and or Grandparents own a house in Vancouver
- Could get 1.2 - 1.5 million if sold
- Would rebuy and stay in Vancouver, townhome or condo in or around the 800 - 1 mill range

Do people feel that depending on the exact price that possible selling your land for 1.2 and trading that for a 1 million townhome/condo and only banking 200k is stupid? What if it's trading 1.5 for 800k and banking 700k? Does that sound more acceptable and wise now?

[CRS]

Originally Posted by winson604

Interested to feel what people think of this very common scenario.

- Parents and or Grandparents own a house in Vancouver
- Could get 1.2 - 1.5 million if sold
- Would rebuy and stay in Vancouver, townhome or condo in or around the 800 - 1 mill range

Do people feel that depending on the exact price that possible selling your land for 1.2 and trading that for a 1 million townhome/condo and only banking 200k is stupid? What if it's trading 1.5 for 800k and banking 700k? Does that sound more acceptable and wise now?

That's the exact same scenario. You're just choosing between option A and option B. You'll need to dive a bit deeper into why you would or wouldn't want to save the extra money. Is it the convenience of the location or building you're buying into or do you want to leave a nest egg for future generations?

[yray]

for parents or grandparents, it will be harder for them to maintain the house so buying into strata maybe worthwhile

[Traum]

Originally Posted by winson604

Interested to feel what people think of this very common scenario.

- Parents and or Grandparents own a house in Vancouver
- Could get 1.2 - 1.5 million if sold
- Would rebuy and stay in Vancouver, townhome or condo in or around the 800 - 1 mill range

Do people feel that depending on the exact price that possible selling your land for 1.2 and trading that for a 1 million townhome/condo and only banking 200k is stupid? What if it's trading 1.5 for 800k and banking 700k? Does that sound more acceptable and wise now?

IMO, it makes no sense to "downsize" to something when the monetary incentive is only in the $200k - $400k range. The various fixed costs associated with the selling and purchasing -- most notably the realtor commission -- will already eat up what... $20k+? And don't forget that once the parents move into a strata property, they'll need to pay for the monthly strata fee. Depending on the building, you might also want to keep some emergency funds around in case the building needs some sort of special repairs, and strata asks the residents to chip in.

IMO, the price difference needs to be bigger to make it worthwhile, and you can do that by either purchasing something that is further away from Vancouver, older, smaller, etc. Don't limit your search to CoV -- there are lots of places in Burnaby that is still very close to CoV, but with better prices.

[westopher]

Remember, you don’t bank the difference when you sell/buy something cheaper.
Lawyers, real estate agents, taxes all cost money, and cost a lot.

[quasi]

Originally Posted by westopher

Remember, you don’t bank the difference when you sell/buy something cheaper.
Lawyers, real estate agents, taxes all cost money, and cost a lot.

100%, I'm listing in the next two weeks. Easy 50-60 grand off the top after Realtor Commission, Lawyers, Moving expenses, Property Transfer Tax on next place. My house isn't even expensive compared to Vancouver, maybe 900k so that's about 7% off the top even if I bought a house the same price as mine.

[winson604]

No surprises in the responses. I've been trying to tell someone the same thing that it makes no sense at all in the price points they were looking at and thanks for the reminder about how much all the closing costs may be. I wasn't sure if there was another angle I was missing.

[kula]

Originally Posted by CRS

That's the exact same scenario. You're just choosing between option A and option B. You'll need to dive a bit deeper into why you would or wouldn't want to save the extra money. Is it the convenience of the location or building you're buying into or do you want to leave a nest egg for future generations?

I completely agree that you’ll need to dive deeper. The math makes sense, but one must look at the full financial picture to determine whether or not it’s a wise move. Perhaps they are moving into a property that has fewer stairs (mobility issues) or closer to transit (eventually they won’t be able to drive). Maybe they want to stay close to their kids or social circle. Heck, maybe they’ve stashed away millions in their bank account or their kids are doctors and CEOs that won’t need inheritance.

I’ve had this conversation with my parents before and downsizing from Vancouver to the suburbs to pocket more cash is completely out of the question. As a matter of fact, they said it’s more likely that I will end up there before they do.

They might dress like bums, but you’d be surprised by how wealthy some of these Chinese parents of that generation actually are.

[kr4l]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

I am sure the owner is happy once he finds a buyer. That place just doesn't have enough footprint other than T&T, the theater and Starbucks. Even the McDonald's doesn't get much traffic.

You know the owner of that whole area is one of the richest people in the world. Doubt he cares what’s in that place or how busy it is

[Harvey Specter]

Supposedly buyers are willing to walk away even if that means they lose their deposits.

Westbank just gave notice to assignment sellers. Remove MLS listing. 47 buyers that would have preferred not to close are now forced to close...

https://twitter.com/fivre604/status/...183157761?s=21

Reddit thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/c...nment_sellers/

[Ludepower]

I'm sure most of them can afford the tax and still come out ahead purchasing the condo.