Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[originalhypa]

Originally Posted by quasi

I agree, if my subject offer ever completes I intend to rent for at least a year and see what the market does.

That could be a very good idea knowing how the market is reacting. I'm doing the same in the Whistler market, hoping to upgrade to a nice house with a backyard that we could entertain in.
The market there is built upon US dollars, and has been strong for the last 6 years. But, even though Trump is talking about how great their economy is doing, there are many signs that the global slowdown, combined with the trade wars and an upcoming debt crisis is going to bring them down hard. The US feds are probably going to drop the interest rate to help drum up some money movement. But again, debt is bad....... So we'll see what happens. All I know is that I'm very happy to have some liquidity for when the right time to buy comes.

[G0rilla]

Originally Posted by 320icar

Come lowball my neighbor. They’ve had their house for sale for well over a year, seem to refuse to lower the price. As long as you don’t BLAST Chinese soap opera’s 24/7 like they do with all the windows open

RS Meet at 320i house, extra points for straight pipe haha

[westopher]

Hypa you’re living in whistler? If you don’t mind sharing, what do you do for work up there as someone who actually lives there. I have always wanted to move back, but it’s daunting as an adult that needs to do adult things and make adult money. It’s actually pretty good for me as a chef, but nothing there in healthcare that’s my wife would really be interested in. The best option for us would be to find a tiny old studio there and have it as a mid week getaway. I hope that ship that sailed away comes back to shore, but I’m not holding my breath.

[Hondaracer]

Hypa works at longhorn in the summer and runs the peak chair in the winter

[originalhypa]

Originally Posted by westopher

Hypa you’re living in whistler? If you don’t mind sharing, what do you do for work up there as someone who actually lives there. I have always wanted to move back, but it’s daunting as an adult that needs to do adult things and make adult money. It’s actually pretty good for me as a chef, but nothing there in healthcare that’s my wife would really be interested in. The best option for us would be to find a tiny old studio there and have it as a mid week getaway. I hope that ship that sailed away comes back to shore, but I’m not holding my breath.

My warehouse is still based in the lower mainland, although I set up a home office in Whistler for business purposes. With mobile devices and the ability to access my work computer while on the road, I could really do my job anywhere. That said, I'm still in the lower mainland 1-2 days a week for shipping, meetings, appointments. The wife works in a school, so she is off for the summer.

That said, my industry is on the verge of drying up, and I've been thinking about my options. The kids are growing up and their educations are paid for, so that shouldn't be an issue. I have a bit of money saved, plus I'm really not big on popping bottles and dripping cash like a prince. I'm happy with a new set of bars for my bike, or being able to buy a round for my friends. A bit of frugality should help if things go off the rails, but not for long.

So what to do?
I've been in sales for a lot of years, so that's always an option. Maybe jump in with a construction company? Or start a business that specializes in retrofitting smart homes. If I was smarter, I'd invent something. But that's hard...
My neighbour is retired and works part time for the mountain doing maintenance on their equipment. He loves the work and makes enough money to live and play up there. The fact that he is local and mature makes him a much better long term employee investment compared to someone who is only here for the season.

That said, someone of your culinary calibre could easily name your price at many of the restaurants there, as it's so hard to find good, committed people to work.

You mention that your wife is involved in health care?
One of the great things about the resort is that it's very outdoors and activity based. In other words, people get hurt here. Often.
Whether it's a skiiing or biking crash, or you fell into a lake, there really is no shortage of visitors to their emergency clinic. Plus Whistler recently announced that the hospital is being expanded soon to accommodate the growth of the town. That could be an opportunity for her. There are also a number of smaller doctors offices, physio, chiro, and other wellness clinics all over the village.

Housing costs were always high, but they really went off the rails in 2015 when the US dollar passed ours to the tune of about $1.20 : $1.00
That 20% savings for US buyers was enough to bump the prices in Whistler to the point where it was no longer affordable to Canadians. A house that I almost bought for $925k in 2015 jumped to $1.25m within a year. And that house was pretty much rotten from the inside out. Prices have stabilized recently, and there is a bit of inventory sitting there now, but like many areas, sellers still want last years sale prices.

Time will tell, I guess.

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Hypa works at longhorn in the summer and runs the peak chair in the winter

The Longhorn bosses treat me with respect. Not like my last job.

[quasi]

I know where Hypa works, i can hear him through the wall in my office someday s it's that or the music.

You may have heard me return the favor last week when I was already in a pissy mood and this guy not only blocked my parking spot but then told me I could wait. It's not like I got there after he parked either we got there at the same time he just had to backup and let me park and move right back to where he was. Lots of high volume profanity coming out of my gap.

I moved my truck up, blocked him, locked my truck and pointed at my office, told him to let me know when he was ready to leave and when I had a minute I'd move.

[originalhypa]

Now that is awesome! The complex is frustrating to say the least. Lots of traffic, and lots of attitude.

Was that you outside yesterday cutting wood?

[quasi]

Originally Posted by originalhypa

Now that is awesome! The complex is frustrating to say the least. Lots of traffic, and lots of attitude.

Was that you outside yesterday cutting wood?

No, one of our guys has been here prefabbing some framing components for a project we're working on.

[zetazeta]

Does anyone have experience buying or selling a "used" home that has never been occupied? We are looking at a new building that just finished and a handful of units are already listed. The sellers all say GST is paid and there would be no future GST payments for me but I wasn't sure. My realtor talked with their firm's lawyer and he said GST is a one time expense and wouldn't be due again.

[JDMDreams]

^ as long as it's in the contract it should be fine.

[zetazeta]

The sellers for one unit we talked to are only willing to sign saying "the seller warrants the gst for this unit has paid to the developer" and nothing else about future stuff. Realtor says that's pretty standard and should be fine.

[bobbinka]

Originally Posted by zetazeta

Does anyone have experience buying or selling a "used" home that has never been occupied? We are looking at a new building that just finished and a handful of units are already listed. The sellers all say GST is paid and there would be no future GST payments for me but I wasn't sure. My realtor talked with their firm's lawyer and he said GST is a one time expense and wouldn't be due again.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle28758483/

One luxury home in Vancouver was completed in January, 2015, and immediately put up for sale, for $6.8-million. The GST at that price would be $344,000. New Coast Realty agent Sandra Li took over the listing from another agent in August and advertised the property for several months as new and tax-exempt – or “new home with NO GST!” in the enthusiastic parlance of real estate marketing. Online photos showed pristine, empty rooms.

It was built by a small-scale developer, who also owns the house.

Last month, The Globe asked Ms. Li why she promoted it as tax free. “The house is new,” she said, “but it is one year old already.”

According to CRA rules, a new unoccupied home that’s never been sold is still subject to GST no matter how long it takes to sell it.

Two days after The Globe contacted Ms. Li, the ads suggesting the property was GST exempt were removed from real estate agents’ websites. On MLS, the house was then listed as new, but with “GST included.” In January, the property sold for $5.25-million.

Vancouver lawyer Ron Usher, who advises notaries on real estate transactions, said that if a buyer purchases a new house, tax free, they could be on the hook if and when the CRA caught on. Even if the buyer was deceived by a seller or agent, the CRA could put a lien on the property.

“The buyer would have to pay. And that’s a serious amount of money,” Mr. Usher said. “You have to be very careful about claims of GST exemption.”

Alternatively, he said, a buyer who has been misled by a listing could be in for a shock at closing if a lawyer or notary determines the transaction is taxable, an eleventh-hour change that could add hundreds of thousands of dollars to the purchase price.

....

In the 2015 case, the buyer learned the day before closing that he would have to pay $12,450 in tax on his $250,000 Kelowna-area condominium. None of the paperwork made reference to GST. The council ruled that the agent, Jason Stoesz, should have advised the buyer to seek expert advice on whether he would have to pay the GST, before the deal was made. He was given a reprimand and also fined $2,500.

https://www.rew.ca/news/ask-the-expe...unit-1.2161220

Most people don’t know this, but if the unit has been left unoccupied, it is still considered new upon resale of the unit. The federal government considers this transaction a transfer of unoccupied inventory from one developer to another, so GST would be payable upon the resale transaction.

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-age...s-gst-hst.html

And per CRA's definition of a Builder:

Builder, for the purposes of GST/HST rebates, generally includes a person who is in the business of constructing or substantially renovating houses for sale. The house may be on land owned or leased by that builder. The term "builder" may also include the following:

-a manufacturer or vendor of a new mobile home or floating home
-a person who buys an unoccupied new house for resale
-a person who acquires an interest in a house while the house is under construction or substantial renovation, and completes or engages another person to complete the construction or substantial renovation
-a person who has converted a non-residential property into a house without substantially renovating the property

[lowside67]

To confirm - if the unit has already been sold once to an end user (ie from the developer to the initial buyer) who paid GST at the time it was completed, there is no GST for any future buyers. This is true regardless of whether it was ever occupied or not.

All of the above material confirms this - but you have to read it carefully. For example, the "no matter how long it was unoccupied, you still have to pay GST" is only true when you are buying it from the DEVELOPER, therefore you are the first buyer.

The fact that the person you are buying it from will legally warrant in the contract that GST was paid should give you all the comfort you need.

-Mark

[zetazeta]

Originally Posted by lowside67

To confirm - if the unit has already been sold once to an end user (ie from the developer to the initial buyer) who paid GST at the time it was completed, there is no GST for any future buyers. This is true regardless of whether it was ever occupied or not.

All of the above material confirms this - but you have to read it carefully. For example, the "no matter how long it was unoccupied, you still have to pay GST" is only true when you are buying it from the DEVELOPER, therefore you are the first buyer.

The fact that the person you are buying it from will legally warrant in the contract that GST was paid should give you all the comfort you need.

-Mark

I'm not too sure about that..... based on what bobbinka posted ...

if the unit has been left unoccupied, it is still considered new upon resale of the unit. The federal government considers this transaction a transfer of unoccupied inventory from one developer to another, so GST would be payable upon the resale transaction.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the above basically says that if the developers sell a unit to an individual who buys it for the intent of reselling, the gov't considers this transfer of unused inventory and GST is applicable for the subsequent sale.

However, everyone in the industry I've talked to has said all the transactions (involving unoccupied units) they're aware of has been sold as used and there were never any issues....

[adrnlnrush00]

Originally Posted by zetazeta

Does anyone have experience buying or selling a "used" home that has never been occupied? We are looking at a new building that just finished and a handful of units are already listed. The sellers all say GST is paid and there would be no future GST payments for me but I wasn't sure. My realtor talked with their firm's lawyer and he said GST is a one time expense and wouldn't be due again.

Hi, give me a call at 604-721-5596 or shoot me an email at jimmy@jltcpa.ca. I'm a CPA and specialize in tax matters related to real estate transactions and have consulted several brokerage offices, notaries and lawyers on various real estate tax matters.

I'd be happy to give you some help because #RSFAMILY.


Regards,
Jimmy

[CT10]

small data point, but I bought mine 'used' from an investor that never occupied it. my realtor advised me that according to the CRA, it doesn't matter who 'owned' it first, but what matters is who moves into it first, that person will end up paying the GST. So we ended up putting a note in the subjects saying that the seller/investor was responsible for this.

Then when I was meeting with my lawyer she told me it's a good thing we put that on cause she's seen cases where the first person that occupies the unit ends up paying the GST.

[Eff-1]

In the case of our upcoming presale, I believe as soon as the unit is completed the developer will charge me GST at the time of closing. At that point the GST has been paid. Then, if I decide not to move in, but simply put the unit on the market, I would market it as 'no GST'.

Could be wrong though.

[bobbinka]

I will just point out a few things:

-While people have not heard of or seen it, it does not mean it's correct/incorrect
-While the article gave an example of people finding out last minute in the transaction, it is probably more likely that you won't find out about it for a few years (because you don't file your taxes immediately at the time of the transaction). This is also why people in the industry may not know either. By the time you get hit with it, you'll be dealing with your accountant/lawyer, not go back to your real estate agent (what use would that be, anyway?).
-whether a property is subject to GST at the time of sale depends on the circumstances of the seller. this makes it difficult for you, the buyer, to know whether they should or should not be charging GST, but if the listing clearly states unoccupied new home... then you should be prepared for the worst.
-if this was to be presented in court, and the evidence is that the property was an unoccupied new home, how will the court rule? can the argument be made that the property is a "used" home even though it's never been occupied?
-what an accountant/lawyer or RS member tells you, even if it makes sense, may not be how the courts see it.
-if the seller comes back to you years later to say they should've collected GST top, that's a civil matter between the two parties.

not exactly helpful, but these things are not always black/white. and, unfortunately, until shit goes down (ie. when you get a call 2 years later saying you should've paid GST), you'll never know if you got away with it or if it was genuinely done right.

[jing]

Seeing at least a handful of single detached houses in and around New West sell in the 800k range. Not the nicest places for obvious reasons, but still livable if you can adjust your expectations.

Really makes you think whether an $800k+ townhouse is worth it when you need to factor in another $400+ monthly in strata fees.

914 Henley St., New West
Ask $868k. Sold $810k June 6
914 HENLEY Street in New Westminster: Moody Park House for sale in "Moody Park" : MLS®# R2364263

1109 Seventh Ave., New West
Ask $899k. Sold $850k Feb 20
https://glorialoucks.com/featured/11...estminster-bc/

[twitchyzero]

decent value if you don't care about car ownership

no dedicated parking in uptown and a block away from the mall means you gotta install these

[zetazeta]

Originally Posted by bobbinka

-whether a property is subject to GST at the time of sale depends on the circumstances of the seller. this makes it difficult for you, the buyer, to know whether they should or should not be charging GST, but if the listing clearly states unoccupied new home... then you should be prepared for the worst.

Yeah, I read an article written from a CPA and she was saying that it's hard for the buyer because it is based on the seller's intentions. If their intentions were to flip it then it would be subject to tax, but if they were planning to move into the unit or have it rented out to friends/relatives but their financial situation changed thus the resale it could be ruled otherwise. The examples given by the official CRA/canada.ca sites all relate to the intentions which as a buyer I really have no way of finding out.

The GST/HST treatment boils down to the buyer’s original intention for the property when making the purchase. Where that intention and/or action supports primary residency and is not profit-oriented at the outset, it is important to document thoroughly the actions and related documentation supporting this intent in the event that the transaction comes under scrutiny with CRA.

https://www.djb.com/2019/02/gsthst-i...ondo-flipping/

[quasi]

So I posted a while back about listing my house back in April I've had a ton of action the first month, I've had 4 offers but 3 of those have been subject to sale.

So here I am 3 months later, I currently have an offer (subject to sale) but I'm not confident the other party will sell their home. I'm making one last ditched effort here offering to reduce the sale price with them if they reduce the sale price of their place the same ie: we'll drop $7,500 you drop $15K so we both take the same hit.

We've also agreed to remove the 48 hour clause making it so we cannot accept other offers this is my choice because I don't want to do anymore showings I've already done somewhere around 70 private showings not including open houses. We have two dogs that we have to get out of the house for each showing so to say it's an inconvenience is a bit of an understatement.

What I've learned, if you're going to list in this market your home better be flawless the best of all the comps. Our home is 3 floors, we replaced the floors downstairs, the upstairs floors are in good shape but the main floor needs to be replaced due to dog wear. I didn't think it was a big deal but for some it is. I also probably should have had my kitchen cabinets refinished to today's trendy color of white. I believe if I did both of those things my home would already be sold.

That said I'm not really upset about it, I don't blame my realtors they got a lot of traffic through. The market is a tough one to sell in, no doubt. Maybe this other couple sells their home and my sale goes through but probably not. Once I know for sure it isn't selling I'll start renovating, I'm actually kind of excited about that. We really wanted a bigger yard but I guess we'll have to settle with what we got at least for now. It's not all bad, we won't have to pay realtor fees, property transfer tax, moving costs, closing costs and money to upgrade our home. I have the kid registered to the high school he wanted to go to using someone else's address and instead of walking he'll have to take the bus but those are 1st world problems. I took the bus to high school and I only ended up mildly fucked up.

My realtor's have 15 listing right now and this past weekend they had 1 request for a showing on 1 of their properties (it was ours).....that tells you a little bit about today's market.

[Hondaracer]

Lol 70 showings Jesus. I thought ours was bad a few years ago having 3 open houses

The floor thing is a good point because I think for most people they have no idea whatsoever what it’s going to take to replace a floor, some might think it’s gonna cost 10-20k some may think it’s too much work period.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by quasi

So I posted a while back about listing my house back in April I've had a ton of action the first month, I've had 4 offers but 3 of those have been subject to sale.

So here I am 3 months later, I currently have an offer (subject to sale) but I'm not confident the other party will sell their home. I'm making one last ditched effort here offering to reduce the sale price with them if they reduce the sale price of their place the same ie: we'll drop $7,500 you drop $15K so we both take the same hit.

We've also agreed to remove the 48 hour clause making it so we cannot accept other offers this is my choice because I don't want to do anymore showings I've already done somewhere around 70 private showings not including open houses. We have two dogs that we have to get out of the house for each showing so to say it's an inconvenience is a bit of an understatement.

What I've learned, if you're going to list in this market your home better be flawless the best of all the comps. Our home is 3 floors, we replaced the floors downstairs, the upstairs floors are in good shape but the main floor needs to be replaced due to dog wear. I didn't think it was a big deal but for some it is. I also probably should have had my kitchen cabinets refinished to today's trendy color of white. I believe if I did both of those things my home would already be sold.

That said I'm not really upset about it, I don't blame my realtors they got a lot of traffic through. The market is a tough one to sell in, no doubt. Maybe this other couple sells their home and my sale goes through but probably not. Once I know for sure it isn't selling I'll start renovating, I'm actually kind of excited about that. We really wanted a bigger yard but I guess we'll have to settle with what we got at least for now. It's not all bad, we won't have to pay realtor fees, property transfer tax, moving costs, closing costs and money to upgrade our home. I have the kid registered to the high school he wanted to go to using someone else's address and instead of walking he'll have to take the bus but those are 1st world problems. I took the bus to high school and I only ended up mildly fucked up.

My realtor's have 15 listing right now and this past weekend they had 1 request for a showing on 1 of their properties (it was ours).....that tells you a little bit about today's market.

Why not do an open house on the weekends instead of private showings? I remember that's what I told my realtor that I do not want to do private showings unless I have no choice. It just makes my life a lot easier as I don't have to clean up the place every other day(much like how you have to clean your place and take the dog out.).

Friend is also a realtor and she is saying the same thing, market is slow but for place that are listed decently it will sell. Instead of selling/buying house she is also now into renting. To be honest I don't think i will do any reno when I sell mine place, I would rather take a hit on the price, just too much work and too messy and I live an apartment lol. All the paper work I have file, getting neighbour complain about noise even though I was within the city bylaw and having the care taker come every 10min coz some people in the apartment complain about noise is the last thing I want to deal with. Moving is such a headache and I rather avoid it. not the mention the cost to moving/selling/buying/commission/tax this thing all add up on top the property you are buying.

[Badhobz]

https://www.rew.ca/properties/R23887...t-coquitlam-bc

i rather like this one. can anyone find anything wrong with it? hows the neighborhood?