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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
I have a question for those of you that live in condos or have a better understanding of stratas and bylaws.
Our building had an emergency fire alarm inspection with a formal notice that was given to us over the weekend. We have no issues with the inspection, but what we do have an issue with was the fact that it was told to us that they're getting into all our units regardless of whether we're there or not. Usually, they'll fine you when they do inspections and you're not home. This time around, they had a locksmith on site and were using him to gain access into every unit that didn't have someone present. They claim that it's in the bylaw, but in no way did the bylaws specify that they can pretty much just break into someone's unit.
My fiancee decided to go into work a little later, because the notice said they would start inspections at 8am. Every time they've done an inspection, it would be from the top down. We live on the top floor, so we're usually one of the first units to be done. The fuckers didn't show up until after 9am, and everyone on our floor was basically in and out of the hallways wondering when they'd show up, because everyone has to go to work. It got to 9:30am and she couldn't wait anymore, so she left a note saying to call her and she'll remotely unlock the door (smart lock) for them. As she was heading to the elevator, she saw the locksmith gaining entry into someone's unit.
How legal is this?
[EDIT] This is outside of the annual fire inspection as that was already done earlier in the year.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch28
I have a question for those of you that live in condos or have a better understanding of stratas and bylaws.
Our building had an emergency fire alarm inspection with a formal notice that was given to us over the weekend. We have no issues with the inspection, but what we do have an issue with was the fact that it was told to us that they're getting into all our units regardless of whether we're there or not. Usually, they'll fine you when they do inspections and you're not home. This time around, they had a locksmith on site and were using him to gain access into every unit that didn't have someone present. They claim that it's in the bylaw, but in no way did the bylaws specify that they can pretty much just break into someone's unit.
My fiancee decided to go into work a little later, because the notice said they would start inspections at 8am. Every time they've done an inspection, it would be from the top down. We live on the top floor, so we're usually one of the first units to be done. The fuckers didn't show up until after 9am, and everyone on our floor was basically in and out of the hallways wondering when they'd show up, because everyone has to go to work. It got to 9:30am and she couldn't wait anymore, so she left a note saying to call her and she'll remotely unlock the door (smart lock) for them. As she was heading to the elevator, she saw the locksmith gaining entry into someone's unit.
How legal is this?
My understanding is that the strata is not allowed to gain access without authorization, but your specific strata bylaws might suggest otherwise?
This fairly recent article mentions that the strata should give 48 hours notice of such inspections, and that the strata is not given authority to access units through means of locksmith.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch28
I have a question for those of you that live in condos or have a better understanding of stratas and bylaws.
Our building had an emergency fire alarm inspection with a formal notice that was given to us over the weekend. We have no issues with the inspection, but what we do have an issue with was the fact that it was told to us that they're getting into all our units regardless of whether we're there or not. Usually, they'll fine you when they do inspections and you're not home. This time around, they had a locksmith on site and were using him to gain access into every unit that didn't have someone present. They claim that it's in the bylaw, but in no way did the bylaws specify that they can pretty much just break into someone's unit.
My fiancee decided to go into work a little later, because the notice said they would start inspections at 8am. Every time they've done an inspection, it would be from the top down. We live on the top floor, so we're usually one of the first units to be done. The fuckers didn't show up until after 9am, and everyone on our floor was basically in and out of the hallways wondering when they'd show up, because everyone has to go to work. It got to 9:30am and she couldn't wait anymore, so she left a note saying to call her and she'll remotely unlock the door (smart lock) for them. As she was heading to the elevator, she saw the locksmith gaining entry into someone's unit.
How legal is this?
I feel something major/dangerous might happen in the condo if the strata is willing to go this far. I would bring this up with the building manager/strata and let them know you are seeking legal advice. Unless you give them a legal doc saying they have permission (I forgot what's that call). Otherwise by law they can't enter your unit.
Because when our tech want to do install if the customer or no one is in the unit we are legally not allow to enter even if the customer give us permission over the phone or leave the door unlock. If they do you can sue them for invasion of private property. What if something is damage then who pays for it? Or missing? I would tell them show you legal doc that they are allow to do it this and when this so call policy was updated otherwise tell them you will sue their ass if they try to get a lock smith to enter your apartment without your permission.
When we did our fire inspection if anyone missed the first one then we schedule a 2nd time. If you miss both times then you get charge/fine every month till you arrange an inspection out of your own pocket. In fact our strata have stress that you/or someone needs to be there during the inspection. They won't even come in even alone even if you give them permission.
This fairly recent article mentions that the strata should give 48 hours notice of such inspections, and that the strata is not given authority to access units through means of locksmith.
I think that article is based on the 'standard' bylaws. Here's the bylaw that our building has
What I'm getting from 20(3) is that the only way strata can gain access to a unit is via court order, no?
We have nothing to hide in our unit, but it's the fact that it just feels like a complete abuse of power. I'm not going to lie, though, if I came home and found out someone locksmithed into my unit then I'd feel pretty violated.
Im interested in a unit in Metrotown, 6 years old. Owner bought last November and is now selling. Unit is in great condition but the building does not seem to be well kept. Stay away?
I think that article is based on the 'standard' bylaws. Here's the bylaw that our building has
What I'm getting from 20(3) is that the only way strata can gain access to a unit is via court order, no?
The way I read it you're required to give access for certain things per 20(1)(b), if you fail to do so 20(3) says you'll be charged for any additional costs caused by that and they will use a court order to gain access to the unit.
__________________ 1991 Toyota Celica GTFour RC // 2007 Toyota Rav4 V6 // 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maksimizer
half those dudes are hotter than ,my GF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevYouUp
reading this thread is like waiting for goku to charge up a spirit bomb in dragon ball z
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good_KarMa
OH thank god. I thought u had sex with my wife. :cry:
Did people in your Strata not read the bylaws before voting that in? That feels like an abuse of power and an invasion of privacy. This is a property you own and to be told you have to give access because we said so, feels so wrong.
Just going to chime in that in my old apartment, I believe the bylaw was like that as well.
The annual fire / smoke alarm inspection requires entry into every single unit at the building. Strata gave us the date in advance -- usually only 2 weeks notice, I think? We are asked to either be there in person, or leave your house key with a strata council member. If we don't do this, they'll get a locksmith to open your door. I don't think the locksmith thing ever took place in the years when I lived at the condo.
In an emergency situation though, strata will bust into your unit with or without a locksmith. A friend in the same building as I was somehow had an overflowing bath tub or kitchen sink, and the unit below her was having water coming down through her ceiling. Strata busted into my friend's unit, breaking the lock on the door. On top of the water damage repairs, my friend was also on the hook for fixing her own door and lock. Since she was at fault with the water thing, she didn't complain about the door thing either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch28
I have a question for those of you that live in condos or have a better understanding of stratas and bylaws.
Our building had an emergency fire alarm inspection with a formal notice that was given to us over the weekend. We have no issues with the inspection, but what we do have an issue with was the fact that it was told to us that they're getting into all our units regardless of whether we're there or not. Usually, they'll fine you when they do inspections and you're not home. This time around, they had a locksmith on site and were using him to gain access into every unit that didn't have someone present. They claim that it's in the bylaw, but in no way did the bylaws specify that they can pretty much just break into someone's unit.
My fiancee decided to go into work a little later, because the notice said they would start inspections at 8am. Every time they've done an inspection, it would be from the top down. We live on the top floor, so we're usually one of the first units to be done. The fuckers didn't show up until after 9am, and everyone on our floor was basically in and out of the hallways wondering when they'd show up, because everyone has to go to work. It got to 9:30am and she couldn't wait anymore, so she left a note saying to call her and she'll remotely unlock the door (smart lock) for them. As she was heading to the elevator, she saw the locksmith gaining entry into someone's unit.
We do a fire alarm inspection in our building every year. it's required by law. We give notice about a week in advance. We go into every unit. We have a master key. We are not going to pay the professionals we have hired to come in a second time because someone was not there. It literally takes them less than 3 minutes to do the test. If the detector is fount to be faulty they replace it in a few minutes.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traum
Just going to chime in that in my old apartment, I believe the bylaw was like that as well.
The annual fire / smoke alarm inspection requires entry into every single unit at the building. Strata gave us the date in advance -- usually only 2 weeks notice, I think? We are asked to either be there in person, or leave your house key with a strata council member. If we don't do this, they'll get a locksmith to open your door. I don't think the locksmith thing ever took place in the years when I lived at the condo.
In an emergency situation though, strata will bust into your unit with or without a locksmith. A friend in the same building as I was somehow had an overflowing bath tub or kitchen sink, and the unit below her was having water coming down through her ceiling. Strata busted into my friend's unit, breaking the lock on the door. On top of the water damage repairs, my friend was also on the hook for fixing her own door and lock. Since she was at fault with the water thing, she didn't complain about the door thing either.
I am always so scare when I go on vacation and accidents like this happens.... Everytime when I go vacation I update my caretaker with my sister/parents phone number if case something like that happens. I am wondering this time I should actually turn the breaker off and turn the water off at the main switch...... I am only gone for like 3 weeks.
I think if they give 2 weeks notice is pretty fair but given only a few days that seems unreasonable.
Did people in your Strata not read the bylaws before voting that in? That feels like an abuse of power and an invasion of privacy. This is a property you own and to be told you have to give access because we said so, feels so wrong.
I think you have to accept it as just one of the realities of living in a multi-unit dwelling.
We do a fire alarm inspection in our building every year. it's required by law. We give notice about a week in advance. We go into every unit. We have a master key. We are not going to pay the professionals we have hired to come in a second time because someone was not there. It literally takes them less than 3 minutes to do the test. If the detector is fount to be faulty they replace it in a few minutes.
I remember reading this earlier this year and it had me wondering if my place has a master key to it or if I should just hunt down the make/model of the door handle/lock and change it myself one night.
"If access is not granted then a potential bylaw-enforcement issue exists which could result in penalties or an application through the Civil Resolution Tribunal ordering access. It does not give the strata corporation the authority to retain a locksmith to enter a unit. In the event of an emergency, access may be gained without notice. However, if there is an emergency, a 911 call or emergency response protocols should be executed and the owners and tenants immediately notified."
What would happen if your wife/girlfriend/you were taking a shower and miss them knocking on the door by a few minutes and they walk on in right as you or they are getting out of the shower and see you or your spouse butt naked? I would be beyond livid and you better call the police and get them there asap before something stupid happens.
Well, either you should have received notice in advance that they need access to the unit at a certain time and have that pre-arranged so that you're not in the shower at that time, or there's some major emergency going on in the building that seeing you butt naked is probably the least of your problems.
in my old building, they'd give the notice usually quite a ways out, like maybe 3-4 weeks.
if you missed the first round, you get one more chance for free.
if you miss the second round, the 3rd round is on you.
they do not enter the unit without the occupant letting them in, and i even tried to ask housekeeping to let them in for me once and they wouldn't do it.
Well, either you should have received notice in advance that they need access to the unit at a certain time and have that pre-arranged so that you're not in the shower at that time, or there's some major emergency going on in the building that seeing you butt naked is probably the least of your problems.
I'll use my building for a base example - Fire alarm notice goes up giving 2 weeks notice and another notice a few days prior to remind people that the servicing is being done and if you can't make it then try to leave your keys with a strata member or a trusted person who can let them in for the whole 30 seconds it takes them and if not, you're on the hook to have them come back. The notice doesn't say unit 225 - Fire alarm testing 8:34am, unit 226 - Fire alarm testing 8:40 etc etc. You're given a time frame of several hours. 8am - 4pm it may be done. Are you actually going to tell someone you want a 10 minute advanced phone call so you can quickly take a shower and then call again an hour later to give another 10 minute advanced notice while you go take a dump.
Sorry but that's not going to fly with me and I can make everyones life a living hell in the building if I want to play bylaw nazi and call out everyone for everything. Letting your 6 year old ride their bike in the parkade? I'll just take a photo of that since it's in the bylaws. letting your dog walk down the hallway while not holding the leash? I'll take a photo as well.
^ how is that any different from any other thing you get a window of time for? Cable guy? You get a window. Plumber? You get a window. Deliveries? You get a window. Shower before the window or after they're done, if you're going to the bathroom stick a sign on the door. If they're doing every unit it's even easier, check if they're on your floor or one above/below and you know if they're close. And if they haven't gotten to your unit yet don't do something stupid like walk around naked.
I'm not sure what world you live in where you think scheduling that many 5 minute windows with any sort of accuracy is even vaguely possible. Even if everything went perfectly why would they want to wait around for 4 minutes between each unit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traum
A friend in the same building as I was somehow had an overflowing bath tub or kitchen sink, and the unit below her was having water coming down through her ceiling. Strata busted into my friend's unit, breaking the lock on the door. On top of the water damage repairs, my friend was also on the hook for fixing her own door and lock. Since she was at fault with the water thing, she didn't complain about the door thing either.
What alternative would there even be? If they didn't she'd be on the hook for even more damage. The people below would probably be smashing in the door themselves if the people working there refused to.
__________________ 1991 Toyota Celica GTFour RC // 2007 Toyota Rav4 V6 // 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee
1992 Toyota Celica GT-S ["sold"] \\ 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD [sold] \\ 2000 Jeep Cherokee [sold] \\ 1997 Honda Prelude [sold] \\ 1992 Jeep YJ [sold/crashed] \\ 1987 Mazda RX-7 [sold] \\ 1987 Toyota Celica GT-S [crushed]
Quote:
Originally Posted by maksimizer
half those dudes are hotter than ,my GF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevYouUp
reading this thread is like waiting for goku to charge up a spirit bomb in dragon ball z
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good_KarMa
OH thank god. I thought u had sex with my wife. :cry:
^ how is that any different from any other thing you get a window of time for? Cable guy? You get a window. Plumber? You get a window. Deliveries? You get a window. Shower before the window or after they're done, if you're going to the bathroom stick a sign on the door. If they're doing every unit it's even easier, check if they're on your floor or one above/below and you know if they're close. And if they haven't gotten to your unit yet don't do something stupid like walk around naked.
I'm not sure what world you live in where you think scheduling that many 5 minute windows with any sort of accuracy is even vaguely possible. Even if everything went perfectly why would they want to wait around for 4 minutes between each unit?
What alternative would there even be? If they didn't she'd be on the hook for even more damage. The people below would probably be smashing in the door themselves if the people working there refused to.
Last time I had the cable guy called over they gave me a window and then called me 20 minutes prior saying he's on his way. Last plumber I used sent gps tracking so I could see how far away and how long it might take to arrive. As for the several minutes between each unit, when they came they refused to walk inside with their boots on. They came in, did what they needed to do, walked outside, put their boots on and then did their paper work whatever it involved checking off a bunch of boxes. He's paid per hour. If I'm given an 8 job like that where I know I can bang it off in 6 I'll make sure it takes the full 8.
When it comes to not being stupid like being naked in my own place, I expect my privacy. Knock and I'll answer. If I don't, move on and I'll accept the fine for making the inspector come back.
"Each owner’s strata lot is their private residence, and while the strata corporation might be required to access strata lots for maintenance, or inspection under the bylaws, the owner or tenant is not obliged to provide a key. Unless there is an emergency that requires immediate access by emergency services or a person authorized by the strata corporation, no one should be permitted to access a strata lot without the consent of the owner or tenant and proper notice that defines the reason for access, as set out in the bylaws."
Again, I'm only using the fire alarms as my example, but checking to make sure an alarm works at 8:30 on a Thursday morning does NOT equal immediate access.
Another article from the same man who I used in my previous post.
Dear Condo Smarts: One of the strata council
members in my condo has told me that it is
required that I leave a key to my apartment with
the Strata Council. I understand that this can be
useful in case of an emergency, but I do not see
this 'requirement' anywhere in our by-laws, and I
feel it should be an option. And I am not happy
with where and how the keys are kept, and the
lack of a written policy as to what constitutes an
emergency. Can you tell me what my rights are
in this matter? Theo G. Victoria
Dear Theo: We have actually had an increase on
this question lately. For some reason, strata
councils believe they have a right to access a
private strata lot whenever they deem
appropriate. There are two sides to this issue,
and both raise serious concerns over personal
safety of a resident, protection of their property,
and the limitations on access to a strata lot by a
strata council or their agents. The strata
corporation has a duty to maintain and repair the
common property of the strata corporation and to
enforce their bylaws with respects to the use and
enjoyment of common property, common assets
and strata lots. This also includes the security
and safety of the building and its owners. A
strata lot owner has a duty to comply with the
bylaws and the Act and expects a reasonable use
and enjoyment of the same property, including
their strata lot, without unreasonably interfering
with the rights of other persons’ use of the
common property, a common asset or another
strata lot. The residents also anticipate, similar to
any freehold residential situation, that they are
entitled to their privacy and security. If a strata
corporation seeks to enter a strata lot, they
must, under the Standard Bylaws provide 48
hours written notice to inspect, repair or maintain
property. This also requires an owner’s consent
to access the property. If an owner is away or
does not respond, the council does not have the
authority to unlawfully enter the strata lot. They
only have a potential bylaw violation and have to
go through the same procedures of enforcing the
bylaw for access like any other bylaw: notice,
opportunity for a hearing or response from an
owner or tenant, possible fining or court order to
access the strata lot. Only in an emergency
situation, to ensure safety or to protect
significant loss or damage, may a person
authorized by the strata corporation enter a
strata lot. In most emergencies forcible entry is
used, as is often the case with fire, police
incident or water escape. In early spring we were
contacted by a 187 unit strata whose resident
manager had lost the master keys and suite keys
for the building. It was only after 3 days of
mysterious break-ins to strata lots did she finally
come forward and admit to the council she had
lost the keys. It was surprising how many strata
lot owners did not know that the strata held keys
or a master key for the new building.
The strata corporation does not have a right to
demand a key for a strata lot. Owners may
voluntarily consent to the strata holding an
additional key, but those agreements should be
in writing and include the conditions of access,
who is responsible in the event the keys are lost
or misused, where the keys are stored, who has
access to the keys, and an inclusion on the strata
insurance policy of the liability of holding these
keys. Here is a perfect example of why strata
corporations should not hold suite keys. Strata
corporations do not perform criminal record
checks on council members and as a result have
little means of screening who would have access
to strata lots. Who is going to pay for the stolen
art collection where there is no sign of forcible
entry to a strata lot?
1st year of new building: You got 3 chances/date to be home. After the 3rd chance you're on your own dime. You were able to leave the key with the concierge, but they stopped after the first year. To much liability.
2nd-3rd Year: You got 2 chances after the 2nd you're on your own dime. Fines, if not done within a certain amount of time.
This year: You get 1 chance. If you cant make that date, you're on your own dime. Fines, if not done within a certain amount of time.
I think my strata was getting sick of people not making any arrangements or even trying to get people to reschedule so they just opted for 1 day only or else your SOL.
I believe my strata did state in their notices on year 2-3 that if nothing was done they would have the right to use a locksmith.. This year they didn't mention any of that as I believe they had issues with Tenants disputing these "unauthorized entries". So now its as simple as if you can't do it on the day we set it, then you're paying for them to come back and if you don't complete it, there will be additional fines per week.
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^^ Each strata is different I guess. With my current ones we change our locks (coz people purchase the new or it was a rental unit before) So strata doesn't have master key and even if you give the keys to the care taker to let the fire inspector in they won't do it. It is written in our starta by law the owner or someone owner grants access to have to be there during fire inspection. With my old apartment the care taker used to take the keys for owner and be with the fire inspector to the unit owners who give them keys.
I remember reading this earlier this year and it had me wondering if my place has a master key to it or if I should just hunt down the make/model of the door handle/lock and change it myself one night.
"If access is not granted then a potential bylaw-enforcement issue exists which could result in penalties or an application through the Civil Resolution Tribunal ordering access. It does not give the strata corporation the authority to retain a locksmith to enter a unit. In the event of an emergency, access may be gained without notice. However, if there is an emergency, a 911 call or emergency response protocols should be executed and the owners and tenants immediately notified."
What would happen if your wife/girlfriend/you were taking a shower and miss them knocking on the door by a few minutes and they walk on in right as you or they are getting out of the shower and see you or your spouse butt naked? I would be beyond livid and you better call the police and get them there asap before something stupid happens.
We own an apartment building so it's a bit different than a Condo. If a tenant was to change the lock it would be pretty easy to spot and he would have to change it back. We also have the original keys to every unit.
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
Last time I had the cable guy called over they gave me a window and then called me 20 minutes prior saying he's on his way. Last plumber I used sent gps tracking so I could see how far away and how long it might take to arrive.
Consider me impressed, the guys I hire need to step up their game apparently. It's still pretty easy to just slap a piece of paper on the door when you need to use the can though.
__________________ 1991 Toyota Celica GTFour RC // 2007 Toyota Rav4 V6 // 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee
1992 Toyota Celica GT-S ["sold"] \\ 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD [sold] \\ 2000 Jeep Cherokee [sold] \\ 1997 Honda Prelude [sold] \\ 1992 Jeep YJ [sold/crashed] \\ 1987 Mazda RX-7 [sold] \\ 1987 Toyota Celica GT-S [crushed]
Quote:
Originally Posted by maksimizer
half those dudes are hotter than ,my GF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevYouUp
reading this thread is like waiting for goku to charge up a spirit bomb in dragon ball z
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good_KarMa
OH thank god. I thought u had sex with my wife. :cry:
To give permission for someone to enter; does that mean they have the right to hire a lock smith to enter themselves? Allowing someone to enter versus they gaining access to enter is 2 different things.
Man, y'all really bringing up whiny ass bullshit like "what if I'm taking a shit when they knock on my door"? Smh.
I don't know why it's so difficult in Vancouver. Whenever I'm in my Toronto condo, condo security just escorts contractors to each unit with a master key. They place schedules weeks in advance all over the building and even flyers under every unit's door. It works fine and no one complains.
Also, reading about a strata hiring locksmiths to get into peoples' units is just... lol.
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