Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by unit

mid 200s from two tech salaries in vancouver? seriously, where? that's definitely on the high end, and then to find a partner that makes that sort of pay as well, it's not anywhere near a typical scenario.

In hindsight, I was probably a bit brash to say that it was 'easy'. It's not average, but average people aren't buying million dollar+ homes these days unless they have the income to support the payments.

Engineers and project managers in many industries are at the low end of 100K. My industry, which is non-tech, pays those professions at that salary range. If you add in a premium for management or one of the large tech companies, you could get into the 125-140K range.

Lots of hearsay on the interwebs about tech salaries in Vancouver, including on Reddit which tends to skew towards people in tech: https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/c...salaries_100k/

My parents' house in East Vancouver (typical Vancouver special) sold to a local tech worker under the age of 40 last fall. The buyer was a former resident of the West Side and had no partner on the title when the deal closed.

All anecdotes can be taken with a grain of salt, I suppose.

[bcrdukes]

You have to be careful about factoring in things like stock options and bonuses as part of the compensation package, because that will vary year over year. Say if you don't hit your performance targets throughout the quarter, and you don't perform as expected, you won't get a bonus, or rather, you may not have a job mid-way. The same goes for stock options.

Salaries are often lower in Vancouver for tech roles mainly due to the lack of skillsets and experience on the market. That and Vancouver is not regarded as a tech hub. To hit a $120K salary, you'd have to be a very specialized or a combination of experience and tenure. I sure as hell wouldn't pay $120K to a junior level front end or back end developer in Vancouver who graduated from UBC.

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

Salaries are often lower in Vancouver for tech roles mainly due to the lack of skillsets and experience on the market. That and Vancouver is not regarded as a tech hub. To hit a $120K salary, you'd have to be a very specialized or a combination of experience and tenure. I sure as hell wouldn't pay $120K to a junior level front end or back end developer in Vancouver who graduated from UBC.

Speaking of UBC grads, at my last tech company. We hired a bunch of front/back-end developers that graduated from UBC/BCIT/Bootcamps. A lot of them asked for $70 - 80k for junior roles during the interviews. The UBC kids were all super disappointed when they found out that smaller employers only offered them $40k-45k/year for junior web developer roles lol.

It was interesting to see how the Bootcamp guys had more knowledge than the UBC grads because of how much they dedicated their time off work to study more. It's crazy how we live in a time where someone can self-study programming languages while attending a coding Bootcamp and completely switch their career path to excel in tech.

[bcrdukes]

Bootcamp kids often do better than your typical university graduates because all they do and specialize in is beating the snot out of you to be solid coders

There are a variety of factors which sepreate good/top-quality coders to your run of the mill junior web/front end dev. Come across a solid developer with DevOps experience and a portfolio to show for, you can then ask for that six figure salary. It's not easy finding that in Vancouver because not many companies here ask for that level of expertise and experience. Otherwise, if some techie who builds a Wordpress blog for a mom and pop business is asking for $120K base salary plus stock options and a bonus, they need a reality check. They'll be living with their parents for a long time.

[twitchyzero]

i blame distorted expectations of new grads because they read examples on reddit/here/redflagdeals about hitting 150k age 25

[Gerbs]

I feel like things are pretty gloomy for the new younger crowd who are looking to buy a decent place close to Vancouver. Is there anything else someone in their early 20's to mid 20's can do to set themselves up to be able to afford a place by their late 20's if they are already saving and working on improving their skills like a madman?

I'm looking at older units as a first home in hopefully 1 - 2 years. There seems to be decent-sized older 1br's close to Richmond Centre for sub $350k. I haven't looked at their building reports yet but they seem like decent starter homes if the building is in good condition. Does anyone have experience on how much it'd cost on average to renovate the kitchen and possibly bathroom?

https://bccondos.net/cedar-park-manor

[bcrdukes]

It’s possible, but they are rare, in demand, and definitely top talent (re: not the norm.)

They definitely have to be real hot shit to demand that kind of salary, and as a result, be able to afford property. They likely wouldn’t be in Vancouver to demand that kind of salary any way because very few companies will Pay that kind of premium to a local. Those who are earning that level of salary would have to be an associate of the Big Four doing large multi-year consulting gigs working long hours, or a play the role of a lead architect of some kind. And you have to be real good to get to that level. But of course, all it takes is a pandemic to strike and your salary and earning potential instantly comes zero overnight.

Excuse the typos and grammatical errors as I’m typing this on my Windows Phone 8.

[Traum]

At this point, I think the most sensible way for someone in their early 20's to be able to afford a place of their own by their late 20's is to partner up with someone, and look for a place out in the suburbs. Whether this means taking / borrowing money from the banks of Mom & Dad, or whether it means teaming up with your like-minded bf/gf/SO, it is the easiest way to get your foot into the door.

Kitchen and baths are the most $$$ and PITA renos anyone can do. If money is an issue, you either DIY assuming you have the skillz yourself, or you just use whatever is already there as is. If it is your starter home, you don't need to make it look like your summer palace.

Originally Posted by Gerbs

I feel like things are pretty gloomy for people who are looking to buy a decent place close to Vancouver. Is there anything else someone in their early 20's can do to be able to afford a place by their late 20's if they are already saving and working on improving their skills like a madman?

I'm looking at older units as a first home in hopefully 1 - 2 years. There seems to be decent-sized older 1br's close to Richmond Centre for sub $350k. I haven't looked at their building reports yet but they seem like decent starter homes if the building is in good condition. Does anyone have experience on how much it'd cost on average to renovate the kitchen and possibly bathroom?

https://bccondos.net/cedar-park-manor

[Klobbersaurus]

Got an issue, I've been looking at property and found one that i liked, now I've been working with a realtor since last year in Sept and looked at a 4 houses, 3 houses she showed us, 1 house her colleague,

A few days ago, another realtor who's a family friend showed me a place which I put an offer on and was accepted,

Do I have to tell the other realtor that I found a place with the other realtor or can I just say I'm getting out of the market

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

Shopify was planning on hiring 1000+ employees for a possible Vancouver office.

My friends that recently graduated accepted offers of $90k at EA and $82k at Deloitte. Not everyone makes the $100k+ salary that you hear about. But they think that'll change once they hit senior roles/job hop.

Here's a widely used resource for tech salaries. You can filter by location and compare the 'levels/titles' across companies.
https://www.levels.fyi
https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Soft...gineer/Canada/

100-120 New Grad in Vancouver is definitely doable if you end up at one of the big 4.
EA and KPMG/Deloitte are a bit lower as far as TC goes.

Splunk, Asana, and some other big Cali names have started moving into Van. TC is great if you're at the skill level they're looking for.

Toronto salaries are kinda misleading... they're maybe 10-15% higher but the cost of living is also a fair bit higher. Downtown core rent seems slightly higher, strata fees are 80 cents/sqft, and car ownership is really helpful even if living downtown. If you have to be in Canada though, advancement opportunities there are better.

[Jmac]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

i blame distorted expectations of new grads because they read examples on reddit/here/redflagdeals about hitting 150k age 25

My fiancée’s niece is fully convinced she’ll clear $100k easy straight out of school as a veterinary assistant.

[BIC_BAWS]

Originally Posted by Klobbersaurus

Got an issue, I've been looking at property and found one that i liked, now I've been working with a realtor since last year in Sept and looked at a 4 houses, 3 houses she showed us, 1 house her colleague,

A few days ago, another realtor who's a family friend showed me a place which I put an offer on and was accepted,

Do I have to tell the other realtor that I found a place with the other realtor or can I just say I'm getting out of the market

Did you sign any agreements? If not, then no LOL. Just courtesy to do so.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[Klobbersaurus]

Originally Posted by BIC_BAWS

Did you sign any agreements? If not, then no LOL. Just courtesy to do so.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

the only paperwork i signed with her was when i put an offer in on a house,

I guess that settles it, I'll just lie and tell her I'm out of the market for now

[Fafine]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

I feel like things are pretty gloomy for the new younger crowd who are looking to buy a decent place close to Vancouver. Is there anything else someone in their early 20's to mid 20's can do to set themselves up to be able to afford a place by their late 20's if they are already saving and working on improving their skills like a madman?

I'm looking at older units as a first home in hopefully 1 - 2 years. There seems to be decent-sized older 1br's close to Richmond Centre for sub $350k. I haven't looked at their building reports yet but they seem like decent starter homes if the building is in good condition. Does anyone have experience on how much it'd cost on average to renovate the kitchen and possibly bathroom?

https://bccondos.net/cedar-park-manor

assuming youre putting 20% down, older buildings dont really make sense in richmond

newer example, at 450k - 20% down monthly mortgage at 2.69% 30 year term 1455$ per month
https://www.rew.ca/properties/265721...type=Geography

Vs 20% down, 2.69% 30 year term $1131
https://www.rew.ca/properties/267767...type=Geography

difference of like 325 a month, i wouldnt choose to live in the older building lol.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by DA9ve

pre payment near the end makes sense however with interest rates where they are now, i wouldn't be running to the bank to prepay when its cheap to borrow.

A mortgage is a long-term investment though, the rates may be low now but if they go up later you've got a higher rate on a larger loan amount. I don't have the time to try to build a calculator in Excel to play around with how differing rates over time and extra payments affect the total paid over the lifetime of the mortgage but from my understanding the earlier you can pay extra the less you end up spending overall, even if the rate is low now.

[KayC]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

techs 120k easy?
link me job posting because I’m switching

I've been recruiting software engineers for the past 8 years in Vancouver, SF, and Seattle. My last job, I was starting up a brand new product development office here in Vancouver for a SF mid size company (Pre IPO series E). We were hiring Full Stack engineers at all levels. Keep in mind, the following below is just base salaries. Does NOT show benefits, equity, etc.

New Grads: $105,000- $120,000
2-4 years experience: $120,000 - $148,000
4 - 6 years experience: $145,000- $170,000
6+ years of experience: $170,00+

The most senior engineer in that Vancouver office was making $220k base.

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

In hindsight, I was probably a bit brash to say that it was 'easy'. It's not average, but average people aren't buying million dollar+ homes these days unless they have the income to support the payments.

Engineers and project managers in many industries are at the low end of 100K. My industry, which is non-tech, pays those professions at that salary range. If you add in a premium for management or one of the large tech companies, you could get into the 125-140K range.

I agree completely that income at $100k+ is quite attainable for professionals in a wide variety of fields.

Both my wife and I had crossed through that figure before turning 30 - she as a web developer at Lululemon, me as a banker at BMO. She has a 2 year degree from Cap College, no undergrad, I have an undergrad and a CPA.

The most junior commercial bankers were often hired straight from undergrad and would start at $65-70k salary + bonus and move up quickly from there if they performed.

-Mark

[KayC]

Originally Posted by Hehe

Tech jobs in YVR just don't pay that much.

If that was the norm, many of my friends wouldn't need to move to places like TO, Seattle or SF.

Don't get me wrong, a tech person, say a programmer still make decent income... but you'd be in the upper tier if you clear over 120k a year (on salary, not contractor or hourly paid) here in Van.

In my opinion, there are literally two markets in Vancouver right now. There are the local Canadian companies and public sector that doesn't pay that much. Then there are tons of SF companies in Vancouver that are paying almost SF rates.

[Y2K_o__o]

Originally Posted by CRS

This likely isn't correct. Canada has a tiered tax system. You're correct in saying that those making more are taxed more (as they progress through the higher brackets) but this doesn't mean that they bring home the same (or less) money.

In fact, with the tiered tax bracket:

15% on the first $48,535 of taxable income, plus
20.5% on the next $48,534 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $48,535 up to $97,069), plus
26% on the next $53,404 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $97,069 up to $150,473), plus
29% on the next $63,895 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $150,473 up to $214,368), plus
33% of taxable income over $214,368

This means that your buddy could be making another at least 50k with the same percentage of taxes taken. The money they make doing OT (at 1.5x or more?) going only to taxes is one of the most fundamentally incorrect statements that a lot of people make without actually looking into where it goes. This is like how people used to say you only use 10% of your brain and that is also fundamentally incorrect but it's catchy and sounds sort of believeable.

I would argue that the first 55k-ish is the most taxed as you have to pay EI/CPP contributions from that and they stop after you hit the max annual amount.

That's just the federal tax
You also have to pay at provincial level too. here's the BC provincial tax rate

5.06% on the first $40,707 of taxable income, +
7.7% on the next $40,709, +
10.5% on the next $12,060, +
12.29% on the next $20,030, +
14.7% on the next $40,394, +
16.8% on the amount over $153,900

so technically if one's salary is making > $154k, his marginal tax rate is going to be 45.8%.
One can argue, yes he still earns more in his pocket, but half of his incoming earnings will be taxed nearly half.
and I think that's what "his friend" was talking about instead

[quasi]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

You have to be careful about factoring in things like stock options and bonuses as part of the compensation package, because that will vary year over year. Say if you don't hit your performance targets throughout the quarter, and you don't perform as expected, you won't get a bonus, or rather, you may not have a job mid-way. The same goes for stock options.

I have to agree with this, my bonuses are based on profits for this particular region I work in and depending on the year they can range from 30% of my salary all the way down to nothing if we have some bad projects.

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by KayC

In my opinion, there are literally two markets in Vancouver right now. There are the local Canadian companies and public sector that doesn't pay that much. Then there are tons of SF companies in Vancouver that are paying almost SF rates.

those are solid offers

do vancouver workers get 10k cad and sf workers get 10k usd?

[KayC]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

those are solid offers

do vancouver workers get 10k cad and sf workers get 10k usd?

that's correct. These SF companies would pay in CAD currency, but keeping the numeric amount the same. They still get a massive discount because of the exchange rate.

[Y2K_o__o]

Originally Posted by KayC

that's correct. These SF companies would pay in CAD currency, but keeping the numeric amount the same. They still get a massive discount because of the exchange rate.

My current employer actually pays me in USD equivalent of stock options.

However, base salary here in Vancouver is comparatively lower than that in the US.

[Y2K_o__o]

Originally Posted by Jmac

My fiancée’s niece is fully convinced she’ll clear $100k easy straight out of school as a veterinary assistant.

veterinary assistant makes more than an engineer!

My university colleagues who graduated from civil / mech with 6-7 years of experience are still making roughly $80-100K only.

[CRS]

Originally Posted by Y2K_o__o

That's just the federal tax
You also have to pay at provincial level too. here's the BC provincial tax rate

5.06% on the first $40,707 of taxable income, +
7.7% on the next $40,709, +
10.5% on the next $12,060, +
12.29% on the next $20,030, +
14.7% on the next $40,394, +
16.8% on the amount over $153,900

so technically if one's salary is making > $154k, his marginal tax rate is going to be 45.8%.
One can argue, yes he still earns more in his pocket, but half of his incoming earnings will be taxed nearly half.
and I think that's what "his friend" was talking about instead

Let's for the sake of argument go with a person making $147,473 income.

Federally, they are:

$45,535 @ 15% = $6830.25
$48,534 @ 20.5% = $9949.47
$53,404 @ 26% = $13,885.04
Total taxes = $30,664.76

Provincially:
$40,707 @ 5.06% = $2059.77
$40,709 @ 7.7% = $3134.59
$12,060 @ 10.5% = $1266.30
$20,030 @ 12.29% = $2461.69
$33,967 @ 14.7% = $4993.15
Total taxes = $13,915.50

Combined provincial and federal ($30,664.76 + $13,915.50 = $44,580.26
Income: $147,473

Taxes paid in percentage for both ($44,580.26/ $147,473) is 30.23%. I don't think you're paying 45.8% marginal tax on 154k since the increase would just the next bracket up for about 7k.

This is using 2019 tax rates.

*Edit:

I'll use $154,000 since that is the number you're providing:
Federally, they are:

$45,535 @ 15% = $6830.25
$48,534 @ 20.5% = $9949.47
$53,404 @ 26% = $13,885.04
$6527 @ 29% = $1892.83

Total taxes = $32,557.59

Provincially:
$40,707 @ 5.06% = $2059.77
$40,709 @ 7.7% = $3134.59
$12,060 @ 10.5% = $1266.30
$20,030 @ 12.29% = $2461.69
$40,394 @ 14.7% = $5937.92
$100 @ 16.8% = $16.8

Total taxes = $14,877.07

Combined provincial and federal ($14,877.07 + $32,557.59) = $47,434.66
Income: $154,000

Your combined (effective) tax rate ($47,434.66/$156,000) is 30.8%. An increase of a whopping 0.57%.

*edit 2:
Whoops mixed up effective and marginal tax rate. My bad!

For those wondering, the marginal tax rate is 29% + 16.8% which is the highest possible rate.