Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

Ahh I see. So that's the game now? Build a laneway home and rent it out along with your basement, in order to afford a single family home in Vancouver?

Cool.

Sounds like a bright future.

I'm not a fan of it. I plan on/try to buy a place where I only have 1 rental as I'm not a huge fan of sharing my space with that many people. Part of the reason why I want a house is to have a double or if I'm lucky triple garage. that all goes out the drain if there is a lwh.

There are houses that I look at and it's like "cool I like it" then I see it has a lwh and it becomes a deal breaker.

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

how does that work? just a mild grade to the door? must be a big lot?

unrelated, but how come we dont see space-saving spiral staircases (indoor and outdoor) in modern builds..aside from probably tricky to move furnitures and you lose storage space underneath. Not a fancy one just cookie cutter minimalist metal one for example

Don't think a spiral staircase actually saves much space as that space is absolutely useless now. Most houses have some combination of radiant heat boiler, HRV, watertank/waterheater, washer/dryer under the stairs. Anywhere else that would be wasted space. They also tend to stack stairs as well. Understair space also makes for a great closet of random shit.

[DA9ve]

Originally Posted by Sw0op

why not?
income is income isnt it? as long as its reliable, stable, and legit right? there's risks to everything...your job..your property.....if anything having rental income is favorable in my mind as you have multiple streams of income sources...what if you lost your job due to another pandemic? or your business was forced to close for 6+ months...people still need shelter at the end of the day...

it seems as though banks are discounting the value of rental income (ie. a $1 in rental income yields less mortgage amount than $1 in regular income i beleive) so if anything happens on the rental side they're still negtively affected but probably not as much as you think

people have been doing this for like 10 years now...and this is how their wealth was built/added on thats all...10 years their mortgage is like half paid off already and we're at a lower interest rate environment now than we were back then

to add on stability. someone buying anything but SFH also run risks and headaches too. You lose your job, interest rates go up and you over extend on your borrowing, strata fees go up (as we've seen as of late), shitty strata councils, etc.

Yes, if someone was depending on 3 units to pay their 7-8k mortgage on a SFH, the risks are amplified as what others have mentioned (no rent, squatters). Couple points come to play here.
1. vetting for good tenants is a must. shit happens, people leave or choose not to pay. the issue is if you consistently rent to the same shitbags over and over then landlording isn't for you.
2. most SFH owners buffer for lost income in worse case scenarios
3. if the renters are no where to be found, there are bigger problems at stake than just real estate.
4. if you're really struggling with the payments? well I guess depending on the market, you sell at a loss or luck out with something we're experiencing right now in this market. the rule of thumb is to have a time horizon of holding at least 8-10 years.
5. There's not a lot to indicate that people aren't able to pay for these homes. Even during the pandemic, the amount of deferred mortgages was marginal at best. I'm sure as hell most people would consider defaulting as a very last resort. If someone can point out a SFH as described (2 BSMT, 1 LWH) going through a foreclosure, please let me know!

In the grand scheme of things, SFH with rental units gives so much more flexibility in terms of living situation, appreciation, repairs/upgrades, list goes on. Alternatively, I do not downplay the ease of owning a stratified property. Letting management companies manage for you as opposed to owning a SFH is well favored for lots of people. There's definitely more things to consider financially in SFH. To each their own.

albeit, over extending on a luxury home (no rental suites) or luxury condos is a different scenario all together and is in no way shape or form relatable to supafamous' scenario.

edit: I agree the recent prices are not making much sense but I guess buyers are able to ponder over their numbers to decide what makes sense and what doesn't. Also, the cliche of supply and demand is clearly at play.

[GIZZ]

There’s a house on my block, we actually looked at it before buying our place. This house has a family with 2 adult kids, they are always renting out at least 4 rooms, I heard $800 a room. It’s a big house, the maybe 3 car garage was converted to more rooms. They also rent parking for commercial trucks in their back yard, last summer they were renting space for llamas, chickens. The other half of their back yard turned into a meadow, complete with 3 foot tall grass. They have a big dog the father walks occasionally at midnight, it shits on everyone’s lawns and he doesn’t pick it up. The mother walks 2 yappy asshole 3 lbs dogs that haven’t been socialized, one bit my other neighbour. They also list the house once in a while, just trying. At least it’s at the end of the block and I don’t have to look at the run down yard and all the tenants cars on the street. I started writing this about people and their income helpers but have come to realize I really don’t like these people.

On the other hand I’m not renting out any of my outbuilding. It’s 1600 sq ft living space with 2400sq ft garage. If we don’t move I’d like to alter the suite and add onto the garage mezzanine.

[Alpine]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

I'm not a fan of it. I plan on/try to buy a place where I only have 1 rental as I'm not a huge fan of sharing my space with that many people. Part of the reason why I want a house is to have a double or if I'm lucky triple garage. that all goes out the drain if there is a lwh.

There are houses that I look at and it's like "cool I like it" then I see it has a lwh and it becomes a deal breaker.

I think rental suites are a bit like Alex Burrows, Jarkko Ruutu, or Brad Marchand (rat years). You might want them on your team but you wouldn't want the opposing team to have them lol. I have a basement rental suite and I deemed the option as a necessity from a cash flow lens when I was shopping for a house.
BUT I also understand that I am contributing to the very issue that I don't like. When some houses on the block have a rental suite, it's not a big deal. But when most houses on the block have one (and some have multiple), it starts to become very noticeable. I've noticed that there is a correlation between curb/street appeal, home maintenance, and renters. You see it on city blocks as well as in condo buildings that have a high % of renters. Our narrow city streets aren't built to handle the density and it also becomes difficult to keep up with the maintenance from all the extra wear & tear. You start to lose the sense of community/neighborhood since so many people are coming & going. Plus, once your property becomes a revenue generator I've noticed that most people start looking at the property as more of a partial business rather than just their home, and then the home maintenance starts to slide.

[quasi]

Originally Posted by Alpine

I think rental suites are a bit like Alex Burrows, Jarkko Ruutu, or Brad Marchand (rat years). You might want them on your team but you wouldn't want the opposing team to have them lol. I have a basement rental suite and I deemed the option as a necessity from a cash flow lens when I was shopping for a house.
BUT I also understand that I am contributing to the very issue that I don't like. When some houses on the block have a rental suite, it's not a big deal. But when most houses on the block have one (and some have multiple), it starts to become very noticeable. I've noticed that there is a correlation between curb/street appeal, home maintenance, and renters. You see it on city blocks as well as in condo buildings that have a high % of renters. Our narrow city streets aren't built to handle the density and it also becomes difficult to keep up with the maintenance from all the extra wear & tear. You start to lose the sense of community/neighborhood since so many people are coming & going. Plus, once your property becomes a revenue generator I've noticed that most people start looking at the property as more of a partial business rather than just their home, and then the home maintenance starts to slide.

This is one of the main reasons I sold my last house. I think we were one of the only house probably in a 6 block radius that didn't have a suite in our basement, many of the houses also had a coach house and some of the houses were investment properties so you'd have 3 different sets of renters in some of the homes.

There was like a 1 year stretch where I was never able to park in front of my house, like not even once.

When I sold the house I put a suite in it to help sell it but never rented it out. The house I have now is in a culdesac with a total of 12 houses, 10 of them the owners live in them 2 of them are rented long term entire house and not one suite in the lot. What a difference, haven't had to worry about a hood rat poking around my yard or trying to break into my vehicle, I have a driveway but if I wanted to park in front of my house I could. I don't think I could ever go back to the way I was living the 12 years prior.

[GGnoRE]

Respect to all the hustlers out there but man I could never do that. Potentially having to vet three different renters every year... collecting rent every month, attending to maintenance issues, worrying about how the renters are treating my property... I want my life to be as simplest as possible outside of my job. Our in-laws own a SFH that we could use to spawn two SFHs between us and my wife's sibling but we are happy living in our separate townhouses independently instead. Sure, it'd be nice to own a piece of land, have a backyard, driveway etc... but if I can't afford one independently, I'd be okay sharing a wall with neighbors for the rest of my life lol

[Hondaracer]

Well pretty much if you’re going to operate that way with 2-3 suites, you better be able to fix shit yourself or that arrangement isn’t for you imo.

If you’ve got to pay Somone to do every little thing and have tenants wait to replace a dimmer, or fix a leak, or replace an appliance etc. That shit is going to be a slippery slope

[twitchyzero]

charge $150 under market and put it in the contract you won’t be tending to minor shit? is that legal

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

charge $150 under market and put it in the contract you won’t be tending to minor shit? is that legal

Anything minor that in any way affects the liveability of the suite is going to be a problem under the RTA. Also - you are literally guaranteeing yourself a shit tenant with that approach, somebody who doesn't care if their fridge is broken to save $150/month?

If I ever get a rental suite, I am going to do it up nicer than average and charge the premium end of the market knowing full well it will cut the pool of applicants down but hopefully get me somebody who is more particular and selective (and therefore hopefully cares more about keeping where they live nice).

-Mark

[Jonydakiller]

Instead spending 2mil on a SFH, why not chop it and buy two 1bed condo and rent it out, and live comfortably in a TH. Thats what I did.
You can argue strata vs owning an actual land thats another convo.
If it's well managed strata like what I have it's Rancho, I don't have a thing to worry about.
Looking over at Marine Gateway, 1 bed 570sq could be had for around 500k, not bad at all.

[supafamous]

A double wide lot at Fraser/41st just went for $3.15m. I also saw a 33x122 by Victoria/33rd go for 1.525 and a 33x127 by Renfrew/1st just went for 1.66 so basically anything under 1.6m in East Van is a teardown.

A shitty builder can put up a house/laneway for as little as $700k, a solid builder does it for $800-1m so figure these new ones sell for $2.7-2.8m when they're done in 18-24 months.

Sold Date 2021-Mar-08
Sold Price $3,150,000
Asking Price (Final) $2,999,000
Asking Price (Original) $2,999,000
Size of House 2,394 sqft
Price per SqFt $1,316
Basement Unfinished
Lot Size 0.18 ac (8,052 sqft)
Lot Frontage 66 ft
Lot Depth/Size 122 ft
Age of House 89 years old
Property Taxes $6,621.52 (2020)
Ownership Interest Freehold NonStrata
Listing Date 2021-Mar-01
Days on Market 7
Assessed Value (2021) $1,822,900
Price:Assessment Ratio 1.73

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by lowside67

Anything minor that in any way affects the liveability of the suite is going to be a problem under the RTA. Also - you are literally guaranteeing yourself a shit tenant with that approach, somebody who doesn't care if their fridge is broken to save $150/month?

If I ever get a rental suite, I am going to do it up nicer than average and charge the premium end of the market knowing full well it will cut the pool of applicants down but hopefully get me somebody who is more particular and selective (and therefore hopefully cares more about keeping where they live nice).

-Mark

100% - Keep your place in good shape, charge a bit more for it and you'll get higher quality tenants. Both parties will know they're getting a deal - they get to live in something they're proud of and won't want to move and you don't have to deal with someone who will trash your place.

The extra initial effort is totally worth it as it ends up being less effort in the long run. I hear from my tenants no more than a couple times a year and usually for really, really minor stuff.

[68style]

You’re just lucky man, I know people that own brand new luxury places... homes and condos and tenants run them off their damn feet with constant annoying shit. Always something. So much so some of them gave up and just hired a property manager... some tenants won’t even change a lightbulb.

[Tapioca]

We lived in a small townhouse for several years and it was pretty good for a while. Then, when COVID hit, we saw and heard too much of our neighbours.

We took advantage of the market last summer and made the move to a detached without the need for a rental suite. It's a lot different in terms of feel and we barely say hello to our neighbours as people keep to themselves in our new neighbourhood. I personally enjoy a bit more community feel, but there is something to be said about not sharing walls. We have no regrets despite almost double the monthly mortgage payment.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

There's nothing we can do though other than move to Kelowna

Please don't, we're already beyond fucked here.

Originally Posted by GGnoRE

I'd be okay sharing a wall with neighbors for the rest of my life lol

Not to mention a townhouse is gonna have better sound isolation than a house that had a suite added after the fact.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by Jonydakiller

Instead spending 2mil on a SFH, why not chop it and buy two 1bed condo and rent it out, and live comfortably in a TH. Thats what I did.
You can argue strata vs owning an actual land thats another convo.
If it's well managed strata like what I have it's Rancho, I don't have a thing to worry about.
Looking over at Marine Gateway, 1 bed 570sq could be had for around 500k, not bad at all.

The equity you will build on those low end 1br will be nothing compared to a detached.

Also any money you put into renovations etc. Will likely go towards increasing the value of the SF home where as paying into a strata that has very little in terms of amenities and upkeep is just like flushing money down the toilet.

Some of these new places that have like a party room as the only amenity and you’re paying $400-500 a month in fees are insane. When you’re paying that much in strata you’ve gotta consider other options imo because that much extra a month could probably be used as leverage to get into somthing else imo

[68style]

Depends how long you live somewhere, I live in a condo and strata fees suck (mine aren’t that bad but in general they kinda suck) but I don’t need a pool or gym membership cuz we have one... and I also don’t need to replace my roof or paint my house or replace a hot water tank or a garage door opener etc etc

Houses cost a tonne to run too... one average roof job is equivalent to 4 years of strata payments... never mind all natural gas use is rolled up into the strata too.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by supafamous

I hinted at it but I'm totally serious that the garage in the laneway is needed to house a Porsche. I've been very, very fortunate the last 10 years with work and with some steady rental income it means I get to fly to Germany to pick up a 911 in a few years time (Wife might downgrade me to a Cayman).

Just so we get the facts straight -- dynamically, the regular 911 is a downgrade from the regular Cayman.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by 68style

Depends how long you live somewhere, I live in a condo and strata fees suck (mine aren’t that bad but in general they kinda suck) but I don’t need a pool or gym membership cuz we have one... and I also don’t need to replace my roof or paint my house or replace a hot water tank or a garage door opener etc etc

Houses cost a tonne to run too... one average roof job is equivalent to 4 years of strata payments... never mind all natural gas use is rolled up into the strata too.

The old building I lived in had a pool, sauna, weight room, racquet ball courts, and even a workshop. For a 900 sq ft 2 be we paid like $270 a month in strata

I’d say that situation and yours is the exception not the norm however

[underscore]

Originally Posted by 68style

Depends how long you live somewhere, I live in a condo and strata fees suck (mine aren’t that bad but in general they kinda suck) but I don’t need a pool or gym membership cuz we have one... and I also don’t need to replace my roof or paint my house or replace a hot water tank or a garage door opener etc etc

Houses cost a tonne to run too... one average roof job is equivalent to 4 years of strata payments... never mind all natural gas use is rolled up into the strata too.

What all gets included in strata fees typically? I know they can be steep but I'm curious how it compares to the maintenance on a house.

[ImportPsycho]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

Ahh I see. So that's the game now? Build a laneway home and rent it out along with your basement, in order to afford a single family home in Vancouver?

Cool.

Sounds like a bright future.

Sounds whole lot better than TH with legal rental suite, in abbotsford?
Apparently, demand so high they are lotterying who gets to buy presale.

http://www.diverseproperties.com/pro...nema-district/

[roastpuff]

Originally Posted by underscore

What all gets included in strata fees typically? I know they can be steep but I'm curious how it compares to the maintenance on a house.

Depends on strata, but mine (400/mo for apartment) includes:

- Gas (stove)
- Heating/Cooling (in-suite radiator fan/heat pump unit thing)
- Water (hot/cold)
- Snow removal
- Trash/recycling
- Cleaning of common areas
- Concierge service (24 hours)
- Party room
- Gym
- Garden/rooftop area

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by lowside67

Anything minor that in any way affects the liveability of the suite is going to be a problem under the RTA. Also - you are literally guaranteeing yourself a shit tenant with that approach, somebody who doesn't care if their fridge is broken to save $150/month?

If I ever get a rental suite, I am going to do it up nicer than average and charge the premium end of the market knowing full well it will cut the pool of applicants down but hopefully get me somebody who is more particular and selective (and therefore hopefully cares more about keeping where they live nice).

-Mark

a non-working fridge is not minor

it’s not about trying to save money but your sanity

you can get calls about the most minor thing like ‘shower faucet drips, also leaves accumulating on the lawn’

rather make it clear they’re responsible for the trivial things and if they neglect it it’ll be coming off security deposit

and don’t for a sec think charging a premium means you’ll be attracting quality tenants

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by ImportPsycho

Sounds whole lot better than TH with legal rental suite, in abbotsford?
Apparently, demand so high they are lotterying who gets to buy presale.

http://www.diverseproperties.com/pro...nema-district/

A rental suite, in a townhouse?

I know there are real estate investors/agents in this thread that love to propagate the idea of how this entire environment should be expected, and is realistic, but I wholeheartedly disagree. Yes, I know, market talks, yadda yadda.

The fact that a person has to juggle tenants in a basement suite and build a laneway home, just to have the luxury of owning a home anywhere in the radius of the GVRD is completely insane to me.

Born and raised in this city, if you posed that concept back in the 80's, that idea would be completely laughable. Heck, that concept would be laughable in the 2000's.

It's frankly shocking how much has changed in this city in such a short span of time, I'd love to see comparisons to other cities of this size and economy to see such parallels at such an accelerated manner.

It will definitely be condo/TH life for us, I have no intentions of ever moving to Abby/Chilliwack/Mission just to own actual land.

My friends and I have been discussing all throwing down on a few acres in the middle of buttfuck nowhere just to hold something for one day when we get old and finally leave the city.

We cry about the homelessness population in this city, if this trend continues, this issue will only continue to be exasperated.

Once again, it will really be fascinating to see how this city looks in a decade or so from now, and to what capacity the impact of this mass migration to the outer districts will hold for the other municipalities and communities.

I'll stop the doom and gloom, I suppose I just never imagined this would be the Canadian dream here in Vancouver.

[Eff-1]

amenities typically form a relatively small % of a strata's operating budget, unless you're living in something crazy like a building with a large glass bottomed pool, or bowling alley, automated car wash, etc. if it's just a standard gym and amenity room, the costs are small over time.

with new buildings the high strata fees are a result of the high cost of running a new building. a lot of these buildings are LEED/sustainable, and the operating costs are higher.

off the top of my head, the biggest costs in our strata budget are for things like elevator maintance, support staff (caretaker, property manager, etc), cleaning cleaning cleaning, utilities, landscaping, snow removal, window washing, dryer vent cleaning, fire inspections, the list goes on and on.