Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[donk.]

Originally Posted by supafamous

Well, a week after I asked this question I bought this place (subjects are still on it). The place turned out to check nearly every box my wife and I had AND it exceeded on a few things so rather than build a place (which we were wanting to do earlier in the year) or keep up our demoralising hunt we bought this. It's a 10 min walk to my daughter's daycare, elementary and high school and still close enough for my parents and in-laws to come over (and eventually live with us).

Fun fact: The microwave that it comes with costs ($1800) more than the fridge I currently own.

https://www.rew.ca/properties/347394...nue-burnaby-bc

So who is sending supa famous, supa spam mail after he moves in?

[ssjGoku69]

Originally Posted by westopher

They’re just tearing down any 2 million dollar houses to put up 9 1.5 million dollar townhouses anyways.
#housingcrisissolved

That's exactly what's happening on the other side of the elementary school in east van. There are so many 8-12 unit townhouses built on top of 2 SFH lots. There is no parking for these units so I think it just becomes a street parking free-for-all

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by van_driver

Planning to sell the place in a couple years. If the market is slow at that time, buyers will probably use the no permit excuse as a reason to knock down the price

I'm not trying to be facetious but when has the real estate market in Vancouver ever slowed down?

[yray]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

I'm not trying to be facetious but when has the real estate market in Vancouver ever slowed down?

1999

[bcrdukes]

[sonick]

Do reno permits for detached homes increase property taxes too?

I saw a listing in Port Moody where their 2020 property tax was like $4.5k but the 2021 was like $9k! What could cause such a drastic increase?

[hud 91gt]

Not the permits, but renovations themselves. Taxes are based on your assessed value. Tax calculates based on price compared to other comparable units.

[sonick]

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

Not the permits, but renovations themselves. Taxes are based on your assessed value. Tax calculates based on price compared to other comparable units.

Right thats what I meant, getting the permits for renos would register them to the property and jack up assessed value/taxes.

Another reason better off not permitting internal renos I guess.

[SSM_DC5]

Originally Posted by supafamous

Well, a week after I asked this question I bought this place (subjects are still on it). The place turned out to check nearly every box my wife and I had AND it exceeded on a few things so rather than build a place (which we were wanting to do earlier in the year) or keep up our demoralising hunt we bought this. It's a 10 min walk to my daughter's daycare, elementary and high school and still close enough for my parents and in-laws to come over (and eventually live with us).

Fun fact: The microwave that it comes with costs ($1800) more than the fridge I currently own.

https://www.rew.ca/properties/347394...nue-burnaby-bc

Revscene 200k+ income and that's it?!?

Jk congratulations!

There's another person from RS that bought a house maybe 1-2 years ago between your place and Boundary.

[JDMDreams]

I'm just curious do you guys realistically think prices will keep going up? Detached in East Van hit 3 million? In like next 10 15 years? I don't see Vancouver being a global hub like HK, NY to support it.

[hud 91gt]

Originally Posted by sonick

Right thats what I meant, getting the permits for renos would register them to the property and jack up assessed value/taxes.

Another reason better off not permitting internal renos I guess.

I think trying to avoid paying higher annual taxes is pretty silly when most people use “assessed value” when purchasing a house. Unless your plan on living their
Your entire life, I’d pay as much tax as I can! Lol

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

I'm just curious do you guys realistically think prices will keep going up? Detached in East Van hit 3 million? In like next 10 15 years? I don't see Vancouver being a global hub like HK, NY to support it.

When everywhere else is burning Vancouver is going to look pretty good.

As populations surge and with a wake up call like covid who wants to live in NY or HK? Let alone HK’s political climate, it’s fallen wayyyy off desirable. Vancouver will never enact policies to vastly overhaul their density issues. Supply and demand in one of the most desirable places on the planet with clean air, water, top tier western amenities.

The last few years have made me personally re-asses my long term goals with acquiring more property top of mind.

[hud 91gt]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

I'm just curious do you guys realistically think prices will keep going up? Detached in East Van hit 3 million? In like next 10 15 years? I don't see Vancouver being a global hub like HK, NY to support it.

Until interest rates start going up, it’s a no brainer investment for most.

Purchase home. Wait - few years. Value is now 20% higher. Bank qualifies you for HELOC for now higher value of home. Use said extra money for new DP on new property. Pushing prices even high. Rinse and repeat.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

I'm just curious do you guys realistically think prices will keep going up? Detached in East Van hit 3 million? In like next 10 15 years? I don't see Vancouver being a global hub like HK, NY to support it.

I have no idea how it got to this point as you said there’s not the money to be made here to support it, but as long as people come here in droves with money made from other places, and with the ease of remote work becoming more and more, it will attract people from all over the world. Vancouver is relatively small compared to the amount of rich people in the world so as long as the money can come from somewhere else it seems it will continue. Not to mention people are becoming conditioned to the idea of 50% of their income going to housing costs.
It should stop, but it might not. People are being allowed to borrow too much.

[Alpine]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

I'm just curious do you guys realistically think prices will keep going up? Detached in East Van hit 3 million? In like next 10 15 years? I don't see Vancouver being a global hub like HK, NY to support it.

Who knows how high it will go. We're almost at 2M for a Vancouver special in original condition on a standard lot, and that seemed unfathomable a few years ago. But on a global level, interest rates are driving people to borrow and invest in assets, driving the price of assets up and this should continue until interest rates go significantly up (something I can't see in the short term). Vancouver is a global hub in its own right. And as long as it's desirable (due to our climate, lack of government regulations/intervention, relaxed laid back reputation, beauty, etc), money from around the world will continue to arrive unless it is stopped (which is also something I can't see happening).

[Alpine]

Here's a summary I found on reddit about our global wealth situation.

"There are parts of the world that even with infinite money you can’t buy.

Fortunately in Vancouver you just need 5-10 million or so which is far from infinite.

As follows:

Political stability (~middle eastern oil barons~ our Persian friends looking at you!)

Fearful of Chinese ? (Well come on over HKers we had homes ready for u since 1997!)

Fearful of Chinese takeover? (We got one for you too Tw! Mmmm Fraser heights is good, or try Burnaby or Richmond even!).

Israeli family who don’t want to family to be in war zone? We’ll come on over ! We got Jewish community centres at Oakridge lots of room.

Geopolitically distant from war zones. (My Russian oligarchs hello sir does your son want a home here?)

Far from potential nuclear threats “deterrence” (Kim Jong… , come my fellow Koreans! We have loughheed, guildford & Coquitlam. Options to choose from!)

My fellow south Asians. (0.1% of Indian is heck of a lot of friends. Come we have Indian food, Indian politicians, and a whole city just for you! Winking Face)

How can I forget about the Chinese, (Heck one of our biggest Chains is T&T, we 0.1% of a billion is ~ btw I hear you only get 99 year leases in China, how would you like FREEHOLD!)

Chinese facing persecution? Would you like to practice yoga without worry of your organs being yoinked? Welcome welcome!

How can I forget about our rich southern pals. 2-3 of our biggest developers are American! Come on over~ tax treaties right up your ally, make those US bucks & US salaries and spend on our economy housing. Or just work in America and send your family over ! Dw we won’t go after you for Canadian “ tax residency “brackets wink wink.

Might I add I don’t think there are many western cities in The world where you can speak: Korean, Chinese, Punjabi, Hindi, and not have to learn fluent English to enjoy daily life ! We won’t force you to learn it if you don’t want to!"

[JDMDreams]

Yea cuz I think this will create a new gen of old money rich from parents owning land. As the current prices already realistically can't be supported by income. Most young people can't even afford the mortgage for a 1 bed, at $600k if you have 20% down. Same with rentals, there's no way you will break even with the rent collected. Unless rent goes up like 20 30%.

[Alpine]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

Yea cuz I think this will create a new gen of old money rich from parents owning land. As the current prices already realistically can't be supported by income. Most young people can't even afford the mortgage for a 1 bed, at $600k if you have 20% down. Same with rentals, there's no way you will break even with the rent collected. Unless rent goes up like 20 30%.

I've said this before but this really is nothing new.

There's something to be said about consumerism/individualism replacing the concept of generational wealth for modern middle-class North American (primarily) families. Many of the wealthiest families around the world grew their fortunes over multiple generations (including the wealthiest families in North America). Yet, most modern middle-class North American families are consumed with spending their wealth during their lifetimes while the upper/elite class (and other cultures) continue to accumulate for the next generation.

I feel bad for the families where every new generation has to start from scratch. Whatever wealth one accumulates in their lifetime is theirs to spend/consume, and theirs only. The next generation is completely on their own, and they should consider themselves fortunate if anything is left behind. They can't possibly compete vs. a family that passes wealth down from one generation to another. All it takes is 1 or 2 generations and the gap becomes almost insurmountable...

We learn about compound interest in school, and how one should invest as early as possible to maximize the effects of compound interest. Now imagine if you extend the compound interest term past our own retirement years, to 60, or even 90 years? The results are shocking.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

I'm just curious do you guys realistically think prices will keep going up? Detached in East Van hit 3 million? In like next 10 15 years? I don't see Vancouver being a global hub like HK, NY to support it.

Short of massive rezoning that allows significantly more density (especially duplexes, quadplexes, and townhouses) to be built across the entire lower mainland plus higher interest rates I don't see this ever coming down.

You might see small drop here and there but the trend line will always be up as there's simply not enough housing of the type that people want right now. It's either a detached home of which the supply is actually shrinking or condos. Once you outgrow a condo you're forced to find every penny you have to get into bidding wars and the losers then either move further out or live in undersized homes.

(Me, I'm a super lucky a-hole. I'm fucking Forrest Gump. I don't know how I ended up in my situation.)

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

Yea cuz I think this will create a new gen of old money rich from parents owning land. As the current prices already realistically can't be supported by income. Most young people can't even afford the mortgage for a 1 bed, at $600k if you have 20% down. Same with rentals, there's no way you will break even with the rent collected. Unless rent goes up like 20 30%.

Take this with a grain of salt, as I don't believe the numbers either, but there's probably at least some truth in it.

My parents are in the restaurant industry. She was telling me I don't actually make that much (Asian parents lol, you aren't good enough!) and with the long hours they work + tips, a lot of people break 100k take home easily. Keep in mind take home != actually taxed income because tips are a lot of time cash.

She told me her friend was taking home 7k a month but chose to spend it all on frivolous stuff instead of putting the money towards a home, and they have no retirement plans and no plans to help their son who is just entering post secondary. The 7k is the mom's single income and the husband has another income as well and with both of them in the restaurant industry, even fudging the numbers a bit, I would say they can bring home 10k a month.

10k a month dual income, if taxed properly, is ~160k income a month(spitballing, not even napkin math). So that means there are lots of "high earning" and hidden households out there that can 100% afford that 800k 2bdrm and choose not to. It's not even foreign money, just untracked income.

[PeanutButter]

I always thought all of my friends families owned their house, what I've found out is that a few of the people I know, their parents are renting and they have always been renting.

I was so shocked by this, it's crazy to think they had the biggest opportunity to buy a house for $150k, and they decided not to.

These families will never catch up.

My stretch goal is to buy two condo's that I can pass down to my children. I feel like I need to do this, otherwise they will not have the opportunity. I've talked to a few people that asked me why I feel like I need to do this. I guess it's just a cultural thing or the way my mind is set.

I know if I don't start saving and investing right now, my future generations are screwed.

[donk.]

3 mil vancouver specials by 2026, 5 mil by 2040

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

Most young people can't even afford the mortgage for a 1 bed, at $600k if you have 20% down. Same with rentals, there's no way you will break even with the rent collected. Unless rent goes up like 20 30%.

People set their standards too high

yaaaaaa i dont want to live in a 40 year old building, i want a 2 bedroom brand new 20th floor in coal harbour, so im gonna wait till prices drop

If your in your 20s, or even 30s, and all you can afford is a 400k 1 bed dump, then thats what you need to buy.

Dont like it? Go move to saskatchewan, or any 2nd tier US city where you can buy a new house for 250k

[snowball]

Originally Posted by Alpine

Here's a summary I found on reddit about our global wealth situation.

"There are parts of the world that even with infinite money you can’t buy.

Fortunately in Vancouver you just need 5-10 million or so which is far from infinite.

As follows:

Political stability (~middle eastern oil barons~ our Persian friends looking at you!)

Fearful of Chinese ? (Well come on over HKers we had homes ready for u since 1997!)

Fearful of Chinese takeover? (We got one for you too Tw! Mmmm Fraser heights is good, or try Burnaby or Richmond even!).

Israeli family who don’t want to family to be in war zone? We’ll come on over ! We got Jewish community centres at Oakridge lots of room.

Geopolitically distant from war zones. (My Russian oligarchs hello sir does your son want a home here?)

Far from potential nuclear threats “deterrence” (Kim Jong… , come my fellow Koreans! We have loughheed, guildford & Coquitlam. Options to choose from!)

My fellow south Asians. (0.1% of Indian is heck of a lot of friends. Come we have Indian food, Indian politicians, and a whole city just for you! Winking Face)

How can I forget about the Chinese, (Heck one of our biggest Chains is T&T, we 0.1% of a billion is ~ btw I hear you only get 99 year leases in China, how would you like FREEHOLD!)

Chinese facing persecution? Would you like to practice yoga without worry of your organs being yoinked? Welcome welcome!

How can I forget about our rich southern pals. 2-3 of our biggest developers are American! Come on over~ tax treaties right up your ally, make those US bucks & US salaries and spend on our economy housing. Or just work in America and send your family over ! Dw we won’t go after you for Canadian “ tax residency “brackets wink wink.

Might I add I don’t think there are many western cities in The world where you can speak: Korean, Chinese, Punjabi, Hindi, and not have to learn fluent English to enjoy daily life ! We won’t force you to learn it if you don’t want to!"

Some guy on reddit posts on every real estate thread that more supply is needed to help cool down prices.

I call BS, what will more supply mean? It means the rich will still continue to outbid the regular folk for these new properties, trade it other incoming "investors" for profit, and continue charging us rent to pay for the mortgages they don't even need.

Some people don't understand how much money some of these people have. They possess more capital and power than the top 10 bidders of every sale property in Vancouver combined.

[donk.]

Originally Posted by snowball

Some guy on reddit posts on every real estate thread that more supply is needed to help cool down prices.

Reddit is a circle jerk of 18-24 year old males living in their moms basements

More supply = less building materials = new home prices ^ = old home prices ^

[Alpine]

Originally Posted by snowball

Some guy on reddit posts on every real estate thread that more supply is needed to help cool down prices.

I call BS, what will more supply mean? It means the rich will still continue to outbid the regular folk for these new properties, trade it other incoming "investors" for profit, and continue charging us rent to pay for the mortgages they don't even need.

Some people don't understand how much money some of these people have. They possess more capital and power than the top 10 bidders of every sale property in Vancouver combined.

Yes, the only thing that can stop the market is demand side measures. But those are not coming in the foreseeable future. Short of severe demand side measures, the rich will always continue to outbid regular folk. Demand stays the same, but we have even less supply. Prices increase at an even faster pace.