Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[whitev70r]

Originally Posted by ilovebacon

New apartments are being built in Kelowna if you guys are interested. My friends and I go down there often and it seems like it's a growing city, considering how peaceful and quiet down there.

Peaceful and quiet? I got the feeling Kelowna was getting to be a shithole ... homelessness rising, super unbearably hot in the summer, so many visitors making locals want to leave - traffic a nightmare, partiers ad nauseum ...

... unless I'm wrong and those are just all headline news to keep outsiders out from truly a nice place. Like how we tell our friends from ON ... it rains here so much, don't move here man.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

I think raising rates are linked to inflation, rather than global pandemic and jobs. They will protect the dollar at all costs. Unless I am wrong, but that's how I thought monetary policy worked.

It's all of the above. They also need to protect the economy and popping the RE market is a concern as well. Evaporating wealth on the stock market is one thing, evaporating wealth in RE will have bigger ramifications as a lot of that wealth is borrowed. Not everyone is going insane with margins trading but most of the average population is stretched with mortgages.

[carsncars]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

Anyone here ever sublet their place to someone for 1 to 2 months? I'm planning on road tripping down to America for 5 - 6 weeks. Subletting would help subsidize housing down south.

Yes, but not to randoms. Maybe reach out to your work/personal network to see if anyone's interested. I work in healthcare, so often sublet my place for 2, 4 week chunks to medical students/residents on elective rotations. I don't know them personally, usually, but at least know they're come with at least a certain level of decentness.

Total randoms... probably not worth the risk.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by ilovebacon

New apartments are being built in Kelowna if you guys are interested. My friends and I go down there often and it seems like it's a growing city, considering how peaceful and quiet down there.

Ahh yes, the peace and tranquillity of “Surrey on the lake”

[underscore]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

Peaceful and quiet?

I'm not sure what's funnier, thinking Kelowna is peaceful and quiet, or thinking that it "seems like a growing city" while our real estate market is going almost as bonkers as yours is. The assessment on my crappy ass house went up 34% this year. It's now worth more than double what I paid for it in 2013.

Originally Posted by whitev70r

I got the feeling Kelowna was getting to be a shithole ... homelessness rising, super unbearably hot in the summer, so many visitors making locals want to leave - traffic a nightmare, partiers ad nauseum ...

... unless I'm wrong and those are just all headline news to keep outsiders out from truly a nice place. Like how we tell our friends from ON ... it rains here so much, don't move here man.

It's been pretty fucked for a while, but it's unlikely to get better. In the summer there's 1-3 people a week coming through my neighbourhood checking for unlocked cars. I live in a flat area that's easy to access, but if you live in a rich neighbourhood you just get bored rich kids breaking into your shit instead. The heat isn't actually an issue but the wildfire smoke every other year makes you want to stay inside anyways (and when it's not local it blows in from Russia). The tourists are unbearable, fuck tons of the worst Albertans and their jacked up brodozers clogging up our horrifically poorly planned infrastructure. Our city council is a bunch of NIMBY dickheads who want to pretend they're in charge of a much larger city so they do stupid shit like take out parking to cram in a bunch of bike lanes nobody uses or put in the worlds most pointless HOV lane. Then they stick all the addict recovery facilities close together in the one part of town where families can almost afford to live, which is terrible for the families and the addicts but great for keeping them out of the "nice" parts of town.

Oh and those new apartments they're putting in are going to be terrible. At least the ones being crammed in around my house where they're adding a few thousand units within about a 5 block half radius will be, I haven't seen what they're doing to fuck up the other parts of town. There's going to be fewer parking spaces than units to begin with, and there's no street parking, and they're sticking them in places where the roads are already clogged. Oh and they're taller than they're supposed to be. There are bylaws limiting height but apparently that doesn't matter because the developers claim it's not profitable to build unless the place is more than twice the height it's supposed to be. aka someone is paying off someone else.

/rant

To be fair to Kelowna, it's all relative to what you're used to, and I look at this place with shit coloured glasses because it has changed a lot over the years and none of those changes have been improvements. Which has made me extra salty since I'm stuck here for a looooong time.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by underscore

I'm not sure what's funnier, thinking Kelowna is peaceful and quiet, or thinking that it "seems like a growing city" while our real estate market is going almost as bonkers as yours is. The assessment on my crappy ass house went up 34% this year. It's now worth more than double what I paid for it in 2013.



It's been pretty fucked for a while, but it's unlikely to get better. In the summer there's 1-3 people a week coming through my neighbourhood checking for unlocked cars. I live in a flat area that's easy to access, but if you live in a rich neighbourhood you just get bored rich kids breaking into your shit instead. The heat isn't actually an issue but the wildfire smoke every other year makes you want to stay inside anyways (and when it's not local it blows in from Russia). The tourists are unbearable, fuck tons of the worst Albertans and their jacked up brodozers clogging up our horrifically poorly planned infrastructure. Our city council is a bunch of NIMBY dickheads who want to pretend they're in charge of a much larger city so they do stupid shit like take out parking to cram in a bunch of bike lanes nobody uses or put in the worlds most pointless HOV lane. Then they stick all the addict recovery facilities close together in the one part of town where families can almost afford to live, which is terrible for the families and the addicts but great for keeping them out of the "nice" parts of town.

Oh and those new apartments they're putting in are going to be terrible. At least the ones being crammed in around my house where they're adding a few thousand units within about a 5 block half radius will be, I haven't seen what they're doing to fuck up the other parts of town. There's going to be fewer parking spaces than units to begin with, and there's no street parking, and they're sticking them in places where the roads are already clogged. Oh and they're taller than they're supposed to be. There are bylaws limiting height but apparently that doesn't matter because the developers claim it's not profitable to build unless the place is more than twice the height it's supposed to be. aka someone is paying off someone else.

/rant

To be fair to Kelowna, it's all relative to what you're used to, and I look at this place with shit coloured glasses because it has changed a lot over the years and none of those changes have been improvements. Which has made me extra salty since I'm stuck here for a looooong time.

I don't live in Kelowna and I feel the same way. I started visiting yearly in 2014 and only stopped since covid started. Traffic has gotten worse, shits gotten more expensive, there are more tourists than ever. Just overall dealing with a lot of the same issues Vancouver is facing with weird decisions and lagging infrastructure.

[PeanutButter]

Just overheard two people talking about how one of them bought a house in 2019 for $1.5M and the other person saying how much of a great deal that is.

The guy who bought the house said his mortgage payment was just over $5k/ month and they're on a pretty tight budget right now.

It's just crazy to think that anyone looking for a house right now would jump on a detached in Vancouver for $1.5M, but to have a $5k mortgage payment.. And that's JUST mortgage.. Let alone expense like property tax, utilities, etc.

I was thinking about how much money our government spent during the last couple of years... We can't default on our payments, can we? I'm not even sure how that works

[JDMDreams]

Yea I'm not sure what's going on with the prices right now. $700k for one bed doesn't make sense, young ppl who will want those units most likely can't afford it, ppl who want to invest can't get enough returns out of them. Unless we Jack up rent? But there's too many rules and regulation controlling that. And do you want to rely on one tennant over $700k? The risk is too high.

Does anyone know if we have anything like the States where they invest in real estate? Not really commercial reits. But I've heard about fund rise. Seems like a safer bet than dumping that much money on one unit.

[Tapioca]

Every time that there has been a spike in the market like this (2005-2007 and 2015/2016), the values have never made sense at the time.

It seems to be perfect storm right now:
- Inventory for ground-oriented homes (detached and townhomes) is the lowest it has been in several years
- Low variable rates
- Workplace changes as a result of the pandemic
- Substantial salary inflation in certain industries, such as tech
- Wealth transfer from boomers/late-Xers to millennials/generation Z
- Last gasp for millennials to enter the housing market or upgrade

[Gerbs]

Someone sold a 15-year-old unit across the street from me for $610K, non-renovated, smaller sqft. At this point, I might consider listing my place for like $650K lol and go back to roommating.

Anyone ever considered moving to Calgary? I've been looking at 3 BR new build houses there for $600 - 700K. Their roads also look more fun to drive on.

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

do you want to rely on one tennant over $700k? The risk is too high.

Does anyone know if we have anything like the States where they invest in real estate? Not really commercial reits. But I've heard about fund rise. Seems like a safer bet than dumping that much money on one unit.

We have residential reits like car.un

[JDMDreams]

I'm considering this too. Like just rage quit, sell assets or rent out and move to somewhere with cheaper costs like Calgary Edmonton, Nova Scotia? And just travel, live somewhere in Asia with a lower cost of living like Thailand, Bali?

Cuz for the price of a one bed here I can buy a pretty big house in other provinces. Rent out basement? Have room for toys?

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

I'm considering this too. Like just rage quit, sell assets or rent out and move to somewhere with cheaper costs like Calgary Edmonton, Nova Scotia? And just travel, live somewhere in Asia with a lower cost of living like Thailand, Bali?

Cuz for the price of a one bed here I can buy a pretty big house in other provinces. Rent out basement? Have room for toys?

Depending on your career, it may or may not work out. I think Calgary and Edmonton also pays a bit less than Vancouver (as if it's not low enough here.....)

[westopher]

Pay is higher in lots of sectors in Calgary and edmonton. Really depends what you do.
If you aren’t interested in spending lots of time outside, edmonton is a good option. Calgary is good if you are interested in mountain living as well as a big city atmosphere.
Obviously the weather fucking sucks in both cities. Calgary is full of pricks. Edmonton is a very good city socially in comparison to Calgary and vancouver.

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

Depending on your career, it may or may not work out. I think Calgary and Edmonton also pays a bit less than Vancouver (as if it's not low enough here.....)

I just checked and it seemed like they're pretty much on par in terms of the top 10% of income earners.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1...101%2C20190101


When I checked the stats for finance and accounting it seems like they paid 10 - 20% more but you'd have to likely work in oil and gas instead of tech and real estate.

Originally Posted by westopher

Pay is higher in lots of sectors in Calgary and edmonton. Really depends what you do.
If you aren’t interested in spending lots of time outside, edmonton is a good option. Calgary is good if you are interested in mountain living as well as a big city atmosphere.
Obviously the weather fucking sucks in both cities. Calgary is full of pricks. Edmonton is a very good city socially in comparison to Calgary and vancouver.

I heard Calgary has over 300+ days of sun a year. My greatest worry is the lack of an Asian community in Edmonton or Calgary. The last time I went their asian food wasn't too good.

[westopher]

If you think sunlight and -25 is nice, I guess it’s subjective. I’ll take rain and 6 degrees over that.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

I heard Calgary has over 300+ days of sun a year. My greatest worry is the lack of an Asian community in Edmonton or Calgary. The last time I went their asian food wasn't too good.

As I understand it, Calgary has quite a strong Vietnamese population, and prior to the pandemic, there is no shortage of good Vietnamese restaurants too. On the other hand, if you are looking for Chinese / Japanese / Korean / Taiwanese food, IMO there are very few places that can come close to Vancouver.

[whitev70r]

Thanks for the update feedback on Kelowna ... I haven't been there for a few years either, since Covid and already it was terrible. So both of you confirmed the trajectory .. which is shitz. And yah, one of you mentioned the forest fire and all in addition to all the other stuff. No thanks.


How's Kamloops ... has it been tainted yet?

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

Thanks for the update feedback on Kelowna ... I haven't been there for a few years either, since Covid and already it was terrible. So both of you confirmed the trajectory .. which is shitz. And yah, one of you mentioned the forest fire and all in addition to all the other stuff. No thanks.


How's Kamloops ... has it been tainted yet?

I went to Kelowna last Sept.
As long as you stay outside of downtown Kelowna, I didn't think it was that unsafe. I walked our dog along the marina every night and only 1 night saw a bum riding a bike going through every garbage can looking for cans.
We also stayed in Peachland in April and that seemed very safe. Didn't see any homeless people.

Downtown Kelowna is a different story. The street where the BC Tree office is looks like DTES with all the homeless people and shopping carts.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

Thanks for the update feedback on Kelowna ... I haven't been there for a few years either, since Covid and already it was terrible. So both of you confirmed the trajectory .. which is shitz. And yah, one of you mentioned the forest fire and all in addition to all the other stuff. No thanks.


How's Kamloops ... has it been tainted yet?

Kamloops is just depressing af. Lol

[Liquid_o2]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

I don't think at these prices in the last 2 years have condos or town houses make sense in terms of returns. Just heard someone bought a one bed at Southgate city for $700, you will never get enough rent out of that to even cover the mortgage.

Yah pre-sales are commanding crazy prices now. Doesn't really make sense to me - but people are paying them. I don't know how many are investors right now. My wife's cousin just bought into there. People will keep going where they can afford.

But I agree. A 600k mortgage (say you put 25% down on a 800k 2 bedroom), at 3% interest is $2,900 a month. Add in $400 strata fee and say $200 month for property tax, you are looking at $3,500 a month in expenses if you don't cover utilities. Nobody is going to rent that unit for $3,500/month so that you can even break even.

[underscore]

Funny you mention BCTF, my dad used to work there. It was in a nice area. I rarely have a reason to go through downtown these days, for a downtown core realistically it's pretty nice but again, it's not as good as it used to be.

Originally Posted by westopher

If you think sunlight and -25 is nice, I guess it’s subjective. I’ll take rain and 6 degrees over that.

-25 isn't that bad, but the wind... fuck I hate wind.

[Fafine]

wtf? https://vancouver.craigslist.org/bnc...424475942.html

[Liquid_o2]

I stand corrected.

[6thGear.]

DT Kelowna gets progressively worse everytime we go. Last time my wife and I went pre pandemic we just avoided DT and went straight to wine country.

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by Fafine

wtf? https://vancouver.craigslist.org/bnc...424475942.html

dude c'mon, there's coffee pods