Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[VR6GTI]

Originally Posted by PeanutButter

Just overheard two people talking about how one of them bought a house in 2019 for $1.5M and the other person saying how much of a great deal that is.

The guy who bought the house said his mortgage payment was just over $5k/ month and they're on a pretty tight budget right now.

It's just crazy to think that anyone looking for a house right now would jump on a detached in Vancouver for $1.5M, but to have a $5k mortgage payment.. And that's JUST mortgage.. Let alone expense like property tax, utilities, etc.

I was thinking about how much money our government spent during the last couple of years... We can't default on our payments, can we? I'm not even sure how that works

5k+ mortgages are probably pretty standard these days with prices the way they are

[westopher]

How many people are making the 250k+ household income for that to make sense?

[JDMDreams]

Most detached owners will rent the basement back out so they should get at least about $1500 back a month for a proper unit.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by westopher

How many people are making the 250k+ household income for that to make sense?

We are keeping it together at 200k income. I'd like to be 250k as well, but that takes time. I guess our mortgage is not quite 5k, a few hundred short, it would be if the rates go up by 1.5% though.

[PeanutButter]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

Most detached owners will rent the basement back out so they should get at least about $1500 back a month for a proper unit.

*$855 a month after owing taxes =(
(43% marginal tax rate)

I know a lot of people don't claim their rental income on their taxes, but for the people that do, having a mortgage helper isn't as glamorous as people make it out to be.

[PeanutButter]

Also, how does the CRA not catch more people who don't claim rental income? I know people who have not been claiming rental income EVER, this is like 40 years of not claiming rental income.

It seems pretty easy.

If I was a manager there, I would hire a programmer to create an algorithm that would compile all tax returns from a house and if the last names didn't match, they would be flagged. I would then look at the tax returns of the homeowners and see if there were rental income claimed on their taxes. If not, instant audit of the homeowner.

Sounds like an easy way to get hundreds of millions in rental revenue overnight.

[supafamous]

The stress test has made it harder to borrow as much as before - $300k+ only gets you a 1.6m mortgage which works out to ~$5500/mo for those folks. As long as they're not making payments on a couple $100k cars or have 3 kids in daycare that's pretty affordable for that kind of earner. Add in their option to rent out a suite or two and they're living very comfortably.

That said, that's not a lot of people and even they need to come up with at least a 20% downpayment and if you want a newer detached home you're talking about a 1-1.5m downpayment which is NUTS.

[G0rilla]

Originally Posted by PeanutButter

Also, how does the CRA not catch more people who don't claim rental income? I know people who have not been claiming rental income EVER, this is like 40 years of not claiming rental income.

It seems pretty easy.

If I was a manager there, I would hire a programmer to create an algorithm that would compile all tax returns from a house and if the last names didn't match, they would be flagged. I would then look at the tax returns of the homeowners and see if there were rental income claimed on their taxes. If not, instant audit of the homeowner.

Sounds like an easy way to get hundreds of millions in rental revenue overnight.

Nah CRA too busy auditing for your T2200 employee expense and tuition tax credits to go after these homeowners

[Alpine]

Originally Posted by supafamous

That said, that's not a lot of people and even they need to come up with at least a 20% downpayment and if you want a newer detached home you're talking about a 1-1.5m downpayment which is NUTS.

Not so nuts in Vancouver, or for people that purchased real estate 10 years ago. Even those that were fortunate to buy into a condo 4-5 years ago are up 300-400k in equity. Next-gen is screwed though, without support from someone already in the market...

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by PeanutButter

Also, how does the CRA not catch more people who don't claim rental income? I know people who have not been claiming rental income EVER, this is like 40 years of not claiming rental income.

It seems pretty easy.

If I was a manager there, I would hire a programmer to create an algorithm that would compile all tax returns from a house and if the last names didn't match, they would be flagged. I would then look at the tax returns of the homeowners and see if there were rental income claimed on their taxes. If not, instant audit of the homeowner.

Sounds like an easy way to get hundreds of millions in rental revenue overnight.

CRA only audits about 30k people a year out of about 20m+ taxpayers so it's not worth looking at rental income within a principal residence and I suspect it's one of those "grand bargains" where they don't want to mess with a political problem of housing being so expensive that people need to rent part of it out to afford it. Imagine kicking up a storm about that and just 10% of landlords stop renting because it's not worth the trouble.

There's also a lot of write offs available (property tax, mortgage interest, upkeep) that someone could easily come up with ways to write-off most of the rental income. Whether you declare it or not the additional taxes you pay wind up to be pretty similar.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Alpine

Not so nuts in Vancouver, or for people that purchased real estate 10 years ago. Even those that were fortunate to buy into a condo 4-5 years ago are up 300-400k in equity. Next-gen is screwed though, without support from someone already in the market...

That's still (relatively) a small slice of folks that requires a bit of luck (or a lot of it) - I bought my condo in 2006 for $189k and it's now assessed at $487k (it's in the Joyce area). My brother paid $210k for his and it's assessed at $558k (also Joyce).

I traded up 6 years ago and sold for ~$305k and got about $150k of equity out and this past year I sold my duplex and got ~$800k out of it - that's 15 years of home ownership with a number of lump sum payments to get there. Getting to a $1-1.5m downpayment was possible for me but I wasn't going to trade off my retirement plans for it - if I did I'd definitely be looking at retiring at 65+.

But yeah, younger folks are screwed. People under 35 have no hope of making it in this market.

[whitev70r]

Originally Posted by supafamous

That's still (relatively) a small slice of folks that requires a bit of luck (or a lot of it) - I bought my condo in 2006 for $189k and it's now assessed at $487k (it's in the Joyce area). My brother paid $210k for his and it's assessed at $558k (also Joyce).

I traded up 6 years ago and sold for ~$305k and got about $150k of equity out and this past year I sold my duplex and got ~$800k out of it - that's 15 years of home ownership with a number of lump sum payments to get there. Getting to a $1-1.5m downpayment was possible for me but I wasn't going to trade off my retirement plans for it - if I did I'd definitely be looking at retiring at 65+.

But yeah, younger folks are screwed. People under 35 have no hope of making it in this market.

May or may not. Stories in 8-10 yrs will just be like:
Bought a condo in 2022 for $750K with the help of my parents. In 2030, assessed at $1.5M ... got $750K equity out of it

Same story with higher numbers, that's all.

[westopher]

You get huge influxes of equity, but you’ll still need double the mortgage you would have 10 years ago with 20% more pay if everything is going relatively well for you.
That’s not my idea of sustainable.
Not to mention kids will still be getting out of post secondary into 50k jobs and now be expected to save 80k a year in order to get a down payment unless your parents pay for it.

[quasi]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

I'm considering this too. Like just rage quit, sell assets or rent out and move to somewhere with cheaper costs like Calgary Edmonton, Nova Scotia? And just travel, live somewhere in Asia with a lower cost of living like Thailand, Bali?

Cuz for the price of a one bed here I can buy a pretty big house in other provinces. Rent out basement? Have room for toys?

Funny, I had the same conversation with my wife last month. Son has 2-1/2 years of high school left, I could move to Calgary and keep my job as we have an office there, pay cash for a home, put a bunch of money in the bank and my wife would have no problem finding a job.

I have family there as well, the issue I have is I really don't like snow, despise it actually. I'm originally from the Prairies so I know what shitty winters are like, Calgary isn't as cold as Sask. but it isn't the lower mainland either.

I might look at it after the boy graduates but I think it will be hard to convince myself to leave here.

[Euro7r]

I can't remember if it was here where the question that was brought up, if you have kids, how much down-payment will you help your kids when they buy their first place. I think my answer still stands firm now, they can live at home for free with me as long as they want LOL.

Some may argue you rather have your kids suffer or don't love them. I think those are bullshit reasons why anyone should pass on money to their kids. My parents started off with nothing, I was given nothing, the kids should expect nothing. Free rent is already money in their pockets.

[Hondaracer]

No kids, no money to put aside, easy. Lol

Peeps on here should be making a will and power of attorney if you guys don’t have one already. It’s a bit of a headache so sooner you do it the better.

[JDMDreams]

But it's the fact that I will have much lower housing costs, ie if you want a detached here you will never retire, Vs you can pretty much afford to pay cash ie in Calgary with the equity you have, plus have extra cash lying around to invest. Or just carry a mortgage and invest all the equity you have built up. Even doing that means you have a smaller MTG than Van, = more cash flow + freedom to do other things.

Originally Posted by quasi

Funny, I had the same conversation with my wife last month. Son has 2-1/2 years of high school left, I could move to Calgary and keep my job as we have an office there, pay cash for a home, put a bunch of money in the bank and my wife would have no problem finding a job.

I have family there as well, the issue I have is I really don't like snow, despise it actually. I'm originally from the Prairies so I know what shitty winters are like, Calgary isn't as cold as Sask. but it isn't the lower mainland either.

I might look at it after the boy graduates but I think it will be hard to convince myself to leave here.

[whitev70r]

Originally Posted by quasi

Funny, I had the same conversation with my wife last month. Son has 2-1/2 years of high school left, I could move to Calgary and keep my job as we have an office there, pay cash for a home, put a bunch of money in the bank and my wife would have no problem finding a job.

I have family there as well, the issue I have is I really don't like snow, despise it actually. I'm originally from the Prairies so I know what shitty winters are like, Calgary isn't as cold as Sask. but it isn't the lower mainland either.

I might look at it after the boy graduates but I think it will be hard to convince myself to leave here.

That and all the cray crays in Alberta.

[whitev70r]

Originally Posted by Euro7r

I can't remember if it was here where the question that was brought up, if you have kids, how much down-payment will you help your kids when they buy their first place. I think my answer still stands firm now, they can live at home for free with me as long as they want LOL.

Some may argue you rather have your kids suffer or don't love them. I think those are bullshit reasons why anyone should pass on money to their kids. My parents started off with nothing, I was given nothing, the kids should expect nothing. Free rent is already money in their pockets.

Yah, we talked about it in this thread probably 4-6 pages ago?

Having said all that, the other lottery you can win is if your parents has a home here in Vancouver. Even if it is split 2-3 ways. The real estate equity has to go somewhere ... like the saying goes, 'You can't take it to heaven with you."

So you either win the lottery and bought something here for $200K 25-30 years ago. Or, you win the genetic lottery and your parents own something here. You'll just get it when you're like 55-65. Circle of life.

If neither, you're shit out of luck. There is always the VGH Hospital Millionaire lottery ..

[The Producer]

we're going through end of life care right now for my grandma

an entire industry designed to extract as much generational wealth out of families as possible.

never count on this coming your way

[68style]

Originally Posted by The Producer

we're going through end of life care right now for my grandma

an entire industry designed to extract as much generational wealth out of families as possible.

never count on this coming your way

Sorry for this time for your family.

I was really mad/upset when my grandma passed away very suddenly and unexpectedly while in St. Paul's... possibly due to some negligence on their part... but in retrospect hearing other people's stories it might be best handled like a band-aid... quick is less painful in the long term for everyone involved.

[The Producer]

na - don't be sorry about it - she's pretty cool about it actually

just be prepared to drop 10k+ a month in care costs. It's a very quick way to burn down a lifetime of savings and equity. Not everyone w relatively healthy parents in an old vancouver special is going to be a millionaire when they are gone.

[68style]

It's every part of it too... after they pass... funeral planning is worse than wedding planning, suddenly the costs for everything are insane... nevermind the funderal homes are so predatory under a guise of caring... I remember going with my poor dad and thank goodness my Grandma had already bought a family plot ages ago (that's a whole other story) but he started feeling like he had to honour her with an elaborate $15,000 casket and shit like that. It's like dad... it's going straight into a fire.

It's endless really... what an industry.

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by PeanutButter

*$855 a month after owing taxes =(
(43% marginal tax rate)

I know a lot of people don't claim their rental income on their taxes, but for the people that do, having a mortgage helper isn't as glamorous as people make it out to be.

I don't know enough people who claim rental income in condos or houses. Even when I contracted some work at a property management company, < 80% of owners asked for an annual statement of account. Which in my eyes makes it seem like they don't even report the income to begin with.

If that's the case then earning a 2-3% ROI on rent alone is worth it since it's like 4 - 6% ROI pre-tax.

Originally Posted by supafamous

That's still (relatively) a small slice of folks that requires a bit of luck (or a lot of it) - I bought my condo in 2006 for $189k and it's now assessed at $487k (it's in the Joyce area). My brother paid $210k for his and it's assessed at $558k (also Joyce).

I traded up 6 years ago and sold for ~$305k and got about $150k of equity out and this past year I sold my duplex and got ~$800k out of it - that's 15 years of home ownership with a number of lump sum payments to get there. Getting to a $1-1.5m downpayment was possible for me but I wasn't going to trade off my retirement plans for it - if I did I'd definitely be looking at retiring at 65+.

But yeah, younger folks are screwed. People under 35 have no hope of making it in this market.

Just got into first home at Joyce for $530K, I feel as though I don't have any hope in ever upgrading. Any equity I gain in the market, the 2BR + TH's also go up in equal amounts. It's actually pretty doomy and gloomy. Not sure what to do but it probably stresses me out everyday.

[6thGear.]

Originally Posted by The Producer

na - don't be sorry about it - she's pretty cool about it actually

just be prepared to drop 10k+ a month in care costs. It's a very quick way to burn down a lifetime of savings and equity. Not everyone w relatively healthy parents in an old vancouver special is going to be a millionaire when they are gone.

My dad recently got diagnosed with Dementia. 10K care cost is pretty bang on. I think we were looking at $3k each kid (there's 3 of us). That's a huge undertaking factor in each of our own living costs.

Originally Posted by 68style

It's every part of it too... after they pass... funeral planning is worse than wedding planning, suddenly the costs for everything are insane... nevermind the funderal homes are so predatory under a guise of caring... I remember going with my poor dad and thank goodness my Grandma had already bought a family plot ages ago (that's a whole other story) but he started feeling like he had to honour her with an elaborate $15,000 casket and shit like that. It's like dad... it's going straight into a fire.

It's endless really... what an industry.

My mom wanted to be buried next to her parents site at Fraser & 41st cemetary, they wanted something like $20k/ plot. This was 8-10 years ago. My parents ended up settling at some South Surrey Cemetery near 152nd exit off HWY 99. They paid like $6K each plot and ended up buying like 6 plots to include us kids/SO.

Originally Posted by Gerbs

I don't know enough people who claim rental income in condos or houses. Even when I contracted some work at a property management company, < 80% of owners asked for an annual statement of account. Which in my eyes makes it seem like they don't even report the income to begin with.

If that's the case then earning a 2-3% ROI on rent alone is worth it since it's like 4 - 6% ROI pre-tax.

My friends who rent out there legal suite basements don't claim, however to pull mortgages they had to claim their condo rental