Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[68style]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

Just got into first home at Joyce for $530K, I feel as though I don't have any hope in ever upgrading. Any equity I gain in the market, the 2BR + TH's also go up in equal amounts. It's actually pretty doomy and gloomy. Not sure what to do but it probably stresses me out everyday.

Not even equal amounts... equal PERCENTAGES... which is even more depressing because it's worse for you on the bottom end.

Like for me I bought in my neighbourhood at $365k for a condo when townhouses were $650k... now townhousea are $1M and condo is $530k... so yah mine went up 50% and so did the townhouses... but in actual dollars needed to pay for it, mine went up less than $200k but the townhouses went up almost $400k...

The dollar amounts are not tenable mortgage wise for moving up despite the percentage gains being almost identical.

That said, I wouldn't stress about it... you can't control the market, you can kind of control what you earn so attack that if you want to... but if that also isn't possible, then I have found just being appreciative of my situation relative to others worked for me and just understanding that the amount of space around me isn't what defines the size of my life/happiness.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by 68style

It's every part of it too... after they pass... funeral planning is worse than wedding planning, suddenly the costs for everything are insane... nevermind the funderal homes are so predatory under a guise of caring... I remember going with my poor dad and thank goodness my Grandma had already bought a family plot ages ago (that's a whole other story) but he started feeling like he had to honour her with an elaborate $15,000 casket and shit like that. It's like dad... it's going straight into a fire.

It's endless really... what an industry.

https://www.costco.ca/CatalogSearch?...keyword=casket

I love me some Costco caskets starting at 1099.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by 68style

Not even equal amounts... equal PERCENTAGES... which is even more depressing because it's worse for you on the bottom end.

Like for me I bought in my neighbourhood at $365k for a condo when townhouses were $650k... now townhousea are $1M and condo is $530k... so yah mine went up 50% and so did the townhouses... but in actual dollars needed to pay for it, mine went up less than $200k but the townhouses went up almost $400k.

The math is really ugly if you work backwards with the idea that you'll have a paid off home by retirement age. Basically you need to be in your "forever" home by age 40 to make that work and a $1.5m mortgage is over $6k/mo at that point so by age 40 your family needs to make about 250k minimum to make it work, more to be realistic since this is when you save for retirement. This is a dead dream for most people unless they get that big inheritance from mom/dad (and figure mom/dad don't pass till you're in your fifties).

Even getting into a nice duplex (1500-2000sf) is really hard by 40 - that's a 1-1.2m mortgage in most cases and $4k/mo in payments (figure $180k income or more to make it work).

Only the very lucky - the folks who got into high demand jobs like tech will experience salary increases that line up with housing price increases. The rest will get their 2-3% and that's it.

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by 68style

That said, I wouldn't stress about it... you can't control the market, you can kind of control what you earn so attack that if you want to... but if that also isn't possible, then I have found just being appreciative of my situation relative to others worked for me and just understanding that the amount of space around me isn't what defines the size of my life/happiness.

I think my coping mechanism now is to increase earnings as much as I can while sacking away as much into investments without sacrificing day to day life too much. Plan is to retire early with enough passive income to live in a decent 1BR. No major plans for kids unless I inherit a bigger space or fall into a exec position in 10 years where I can make $250 - 300K+.

The math of calculating how much I need to earn, save and invest to upgrade to a detached or TH causes too much daily stress. Once you achieve that $300K+ downpayment, you're signing onto a $4-6K/ month mortgage for 25 years.

Rather retire earlier in a smaller place.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by 68style

It's every part of it too... after they pass... funeral planning is worse than wedding planning, suddenly the costs for everything are insane... nevermind the funderal homes are so predatory under a guise of caring... I remember going with my poor dad and thank goodness my Grandma had already bought a family plot ages ago (that's a whole other story) but he started feeling like he had to honour her with an elaborate $15,000 casket and shit like that. It's like dad... it's going straight into a fire.

It's endless really... what an industry.

That's real estate as well, the plot to bury yourself or your family in. Dead ppl real estate has been going up just as quickly as living real estate.

My parents had a rude awakening when my grandma had her first stroke and bought plots at Oceanview for her and themselves. The purchase included the basic necessities(pickup, casket, and services) as well so it's not something we have to worry about.
The problem we have now is my wife's parents. My wife was amazed at how far my parents thought ahead (mainly my mom) but however this topic is taboo in her household. Her mom can be super hard to deal with and would counter with "what do you want me to die already?" which just shuts down all manner of discussion.

We are 35, but I feel like we need to start thinking about it as well.

Originally Posted by supafamous

The math is really ugly if you work backwards with the idea that you'll have a paid off home by retirement age. Basically you need to be in your "forever" home by age 40 to make that work and a $1.5m mortgage is over $6k/mo at that point so by age 40 your family needs to make about 250k minimum to make it work, more to be realistic since this is when you save for retirement. This is a dead dream for most people unless they get that big inheritance from mom/dad (and figure mom/dad don't pass till you're in your fifties).

Even getting into a nice duplex (1500-2000sf) is really hard by 40 - that's a 1-1.2m mortgage in most cases and $4k/mo in payments (figure $180k income or more to make it work).

Only the very lucky - the folks who got into high demand jobs like tech will experience salary increases that line up with housing price increases. The rest will get their 2-3% and that's it.

A lot of people treat the house as a retirement fund. Retire, sell it, cash out, buy something smaller. With that in mind their goal is not really to pay it off but rather carry enough equity until end of life, and maybe have some left for the kids.

My parents did that, and a lot of my parents' friends are doing that. There's also the reality of maintaining a large SFH in Vancouver, it's hard on a 65-80 yr old. The stairs are also a safety concern.

And on your note about being in tech. It was a field I purposely chose based on outlook and personal preference. I'm glad I did because I am making more now than I would have ever thought when I started a decade ago. Top average earners in 2012 barely broke 100k. Top average is closing in on 200k now.

[Great68]

I've just resigned myself to accepting my starter home as being my forever home. I'm on track to have my mortgage paid off in my early 50's, I really have no desire to double it at this point.
Of course, I like my location and I hate change and moving, so that's not necessarily a bad thing.
The only other serious consideration, and I've mentioned this before, is joining and going in on something substantially bigger with the mother in law.. But it would have to be something with significant property size (I want a shop with a hoist :P) Properties like that are very few and far between right now.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

Just got into first home at Joyce for $530K, I feel as though I don't have any hope in ever upgrading. Any equity I gain in the market, the 2BR + TH's also go up in equal amounts. It's actually pretty doomy and gloomy. Not sure what to do but it probably stresses me out everyday.

If you really want a garage bad enough, you could probably squeeze into a 2 bedroom narrow townhouse in the far flung suburbs in 3-5 years, especially once you job hop and get that ~20% raise.

People who are buying 2+ bedroom homes these days are dual-income households. It shouldn't be too hard to find a like-minded partner who earns 6-figures and has a property of their own if you have the same. People tend to partner up with others like themselves.

[6thGear.]

Originally Posted by Great68

I've just resigned myself to accepting my starter home as being my forever home. I'm on track to have my mortgage paid off in my early 50's, I really have no desire to double it at this point.
Of course, I like my location and I hate change and moving, so that's not necessarily a bad thing.
The only other serious consideration, and I've mentioned this before, is joining and going in on something substantially bigger with the mother in law.. But it would have to be something with significant property size (I want a shop with a hoist :P) Properties like that are very few and far between right now.

4 biggest major factors in people buying/selling

Upsizing due to growing family/living with in laws/parents/etc
Downsizing once everyone moves out
Divorce cause well...its divorce
Death (widowed)

Funny how we come across clients who buy and say they'll never move only to contact us 2-3 years later because of the aforementioned. I'd didnt' lump job change in cause most people here aren't willing to relocate outside of GVRD for work

[KayC]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

And on your note about being in tech. It was a field I purposely chose based on outlook and personal preference. I'm glad I did because I am making more now than I would have ever thought when I started a decade ago. Top average earners in 2012 barely broke 100k. Top average is closing in on 200k now.

I am in tech and it's nuts seeing how far the market has come just within the pandemic period. With remote work breaking down geography barriers, we are now seeing SF/ Sillicon valley wages in Vancouver. Tons of SF companies are hiring in Vancouver because it's technically still a cheaper labour market, even if you pay engineers here 200k because of the exchange rate. Like you said, I am starting to see some people hitting 200k to 300k base salaries. That doesn't even include their equity and other perks as well.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by KayC

I am in tech and it's nuts seeing how far the market has come just within the pandemic period. With remote work breaking down geography barriers, we are now seeing SF/ Sillicon valley wages in Vancouver. Tons of SF companies are hiring in Vancouver because it's technically still a cheaper labour market, even if you pay engineers here 200k because of the exchange rate. Like you said, I am starting to see some people hitting 200k to 300k base salaries. That doesn't even include their equity and other perks as well.

It's not that high yet, and we definitely aren't seeing SF/SV salaries (or I'm an underachiever). I can't say I'm the best in the field, merely above average so the top top earners aren't something I'll touch. But even average growth has been amazing. I am about to double my salary from 4 years ago, and that's kind of insane.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by KayC

I am in tech and it's nuts seeing how far the market has come just within the pandemic period. With remote work breaking down geography barriers, we are now seeing SF/ Sillicon valley wages in Vancouver. Tons of SF companies are hiring in Vancouver because it's technically still a cheaper labour market, even if you pay engineers here 200k because of the exchange rate. Like you said, I am starting to see some people hitting 200k to 300k base salaries. That doesn't even include their equity and other perks as well.

It's pretty wild. I like to say, "I haven't gotten any better but they keep wanting to pay me more for it". I'm casually expecting a 15-20% bump this year - it's crazy.

I really like my current gig and it pays fairly well yet I know I could easily double or triple my money if I went looking for a SF remote job. In the past I had to move but now it's totally an option to make a SF salary and live here.

Years ago, my wife's friend got her one of these piggy banks. It paid off.

[donk.]

Originally Posted by PeanutButter

*$855 a month after owing taxes =(
(43% marginal tax rate)

I know a lot of people don't claim their rental income on their taxes, but for the people that do, having a mortgage helper isn't as glamorous as people make it out to be.

Am I missing something here?

Wouldn't it be 1500 minus partial mortgage interest/taxes/expenses etc? (Depending how the house is "split")

Then marginal tax rate applied

If this was a condo, bought at 20% down, used as a 100% rental, there would be almost no tax left to be paid.

[donk.]

Originally Posted by KayC

. Like you said, I am starting to see some people hitting 200k to 300k base salaries. That doesn't even include their equity and other perks as well.

Anyone else in the wrong trade?
I need to stop fixing toilets and go to school



Then I can also join the cool kids in the latest pic of your whip thread and not feel poor

[Teriyaki]

Originally Posted by donk.

Am I missing something here?

Wouldn't it be 1500 minus partial mortgage interest/taxes/expenses etc? (Depending how the house is "split")

Then marginal tax rate applied

If this was a condo, bought at 20% down, used as a 100% rental, there would be almost no tax left to be paid.

This. Scandalous to say "they're paying zerp taxes on rental income!" as if the entirety of the rental income is straight going into their pocket. Minus all the cost and the offsetting credits and I don't imagine there be too much left over for them to tax. Not to say the system is perfect, but I don't think there's a massive goldmine in going after mis-reported rental income as it might seem at first glance.

[yray]

Originally Posted by donk.

fixing toilets

I think you're in the right trade

Isn't every plumbing job min. $100 per call.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by donk.

Anyone else in the wrong trade?
I need to stop fixing toilets and go to school



Then I can also join the cool kids in the latest pic of your whip thread and not feel poor

https://www.levels.fyi/comp.html?tra...an%20francisco

Sort by total comp and you'll see it takes a while to get down to the poor people who only make $300k/yr. Those people are probably embarrassed to tell their parents what they do.

[donk.]

Jesus Christ, the shittiest jobs are like 100k a year....
Is tech that thirsty for staff? I kept hearing years ago that it's mostly low end pay, and very few pay well.

Maybe I'm confusing tech with IT engineering, or whatever other categories there are, all of that is way beyond me

enters shitter fitter into search bar

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by donk.

Jesus Christ, the shittiest jobs are like 100k a year....
Is tech that thirsty for staff? I kept hearing years ago that it's mostly low end pay, and very few pay well.

Maybe I'm confusing tech with IT engineering, or whatever other categories there are, all of that is way beyond me

enters shitter fitter into search bar

You can be terrible at your job in tech and make 6 figures. It's incredible.

Here's the Canadian salaries for devs: https://www.levels.fyi/comp.html?tra...ada&country=43

Even Product Managers and Designers make good money pretty easily.

[underscore]

Is there anything you can be meh at that doesn't require a degree?

[68style]

BRB enrolling in CDI

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by donk.

Jesus Christ, the shittiest jobs are like 100k a year....
Is tech that thirsty for staff? I kept hearing years ago that it's mostly low end pay, and very few pay well.

Maybe I'm confusing tech with IT engineering, or whatever other categories there are, all of that is way beyond me

enters shitter fitter into search bar

You hear us talk about the better side of things because KayC and I are both established in the industry with many years of experience. No one tells you how hard it is now to break into the industry, and you'd have to grind for a few years just like everywhere else.

A junior at Amazon in Vancouver might make close to 100k, but it's 60k base salary and the rest in stock and other BS, the stock only vests at 1, 2, and 3 year tenure, and that's if you make it and stick around for that long. That's Amazon. A lot of smaller companies will give you shit offers. They don't mind going through a new batch of junior devs every few years and that's how they roll.

If you are lucky and your parents paid for your education or bought RESPs, great. Otherwise you are trying to eke a living off of 60k a year, minus taxes, and paying student loans at the same time.

[68style]

That's only bad in Vancouver though... $62k is the average salary in Canada... meaning half the population makes less than that, many people A LOT less.

Not really eking out an existence haha

[bobbinka]

Originally Posted by 68style

That's only bad in Vancouver though... $62k is the average salary in Canada... meaning half the population makes less than that, many people A LOT less.

Not really eking out an existence haha

average =/= half, so it's likely even worse

[supafamous]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ngs-in-canada/

Median income in Canada is $38k. This is probably polluted by part timers to some degree as full time minimum wage should get you $30k/yr.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...usehold_income

Median household in Van is around $80k.

Median is the midpoint of all data points which works better here as average is skewed by the super rich.

[68style]

I was looking at pre-tax since that was what was being discussed... net of course is much lower because we are... not American hahaha