Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[Gerbs]

Kind of annoying how I just bought my first-home last year and the first-time home buying incentives won't be applicable to me anymore. Felt like I sacrificed a lot of experiences and lifestyle to purchase in my 20's in the current market. The proposed increase in credits and first-time home buyers TFSA would've been really helpful and I'm sure it'll help the younger high income earners break into 1BR condos.

But the market is so fucked for everyone in their 20's and 30's that I want everyone to get as much help as they can get even if I don't qualify for any incentives anymore.

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

^^ yea, if I was a seller then I just wouldn't sell, this won't create more supply, or you have to offer even higher to get your offer looked at.

What about the ppl that has to sell inorder to buy?

I also don't understand why we are trying to lower demand when the issue residents in the city are trying to all buy but can't afford to. That seems like it's clearly a supply issue, we have a ton of people who are ready to buy their first home around $400 - 700K but there's just not enough decent options out there to do so. Which is crazy because these people are usually in the top 10 - 20% of individual earners in Canada.

[JDMDreams]

^^^ no more going out with bitches or type r. These accounts you still have to put your own money in lol it's not like the gov is a charity. They just created a new account for you to put your imaginary money in.

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

^^^ no more going out with bitches or type r.

I'm keeping my type R and bitches


But on a real note, your dating life is severely nerfed if you don't move out in your 20's, but you're also financially crippled if you do unless you get a real good roommate situation. Moving out is also financially impossible for almost 80% of the people, unless you have that sweet Bank of M&D which I argue, take it if you can. Life is financially hard.

[bobbinka]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

But on a real note, your dating life is severely nerfed without moving out in your 20's. But to do so is nearly impossible for 80% of the people, unless you have that sweet help which I argue, take it if you can. Life is financially hard.

Did you not learn anything from the other thread? U-Haul and mattress from Costco.

https://www.revscene.net/forums/7172...ml#post9060149

Originally Posted by Gerbs

Kind of annoying how I just bought my first-home last year and the first-time home buying incentives won't be applicable to me anymore. Felt like I sacrificed a lot of experiences and lifestyle to purchase in my 20's in the current market. The proposed increase in credits and first-time home buyers TFSA would've been really helpful and I'm sure it'll help the younger high income earners break into 1BR condos.

Same boat, but prices are also higher today, so maybe still better off having bought last year

[donk.]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

^ it sounds really weird, why not just increase the first time home buyer amount from $35000 why do they have to create a whole new thing if it's tax deductible.

Because if it goes through, there will be another 500 people sitting in an office, pushing pencils and mashing keyboards to file your paperwork. Then the gov can brag about how it created more jobs, and justify increasing taxes

[donk.]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

Kind of annoying how I just bought my first-home last year and the first-time home buying incentives won't be applicable to me anymore. Felt like I sacrificed a lot of experiences and lifestyle to purchase in my 20's in the current market.

Or maybe if that incentive if was introduced last year, you would actually have a harder time buying a place

More people with more access to funds = higher available down payments = higher bids

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by donk.

Or maybe if that incentive if was introduced last year, you would actually have a harder time buying a place

More people with more access to funds = higher available down payments = higher bids

Maybe, there's a lot of variables. I don't think anyone was ready to buy during COVID either due to uncertainty.

I think if I didn't buy and redeposited my down payment back into equities in late 2020. I'd be pretty even from home equity now vs market. Either way, still can't get a 2BR but at least I have 2 2.6M+ parking stalls.

[Traum]

I think a lot of critics have already mentioned this -- the ban on foreign ownership will not help much.

There are too many loopholes that can be used to bypass the ban. Another problem is, when it happens, it is really foreign capital being used to buy the properties, not the properties being bought by foreigners. Let's say rich mommy and daddy wants to move their money off shore, and they have a PR daughter here. Bank of mommy and daddy transfers the said money to PR daughter, and boom~ Properties are bought, and the ban avoided.

Also, if I am understanding the supply problem correctly, one reason there isn't enough supply is because there is a shortage of trade workers to work in construction. If the federal gov wants to accelerate the builds, cutting red tape alone isn't good enough. They need more people working in construction.

[Gh0st]

Foreign ban for 2 years.. interesting. In 2024 there will be “pent up” demand from foreign nationals waiting to enter the Canadian RE market then boom mega spike in prices. The desire to life in metro Vancouver won’t go away.

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by 6thGear.

Maybe if this bmw owner knows how to park and fold his mirror in then he won't have an issue parking in that tight spot

Originally Posted by ImportPsycho

That's my thought exactly.
I don't know about regulations but look at the gap between front wheel and column, looks like it could fit.

sure it fits but is it usable daily? y’all contortionists without parents or kids?
imagine paying 1M for a bedroom and be asked to ride the train or drive kei car as if this is in shinjuku
a freaking cx5 which is people often complain as being too small is already TYTE in these stalls

I’m glad someone’s making noise on a problem getting worse with every build

[Teriyaki]

Thinking about the equation a little more, the overriding concepts of the market here is that

1. There is simply not enough supply across the board. Short of creating more land, this problem will persist and not easily solvable.
2. The means of "banning or taxing" foreign ownership thus far have been wholly ineffective, including this new proposed new ban.
2b. Foreign money will continue to flow in for a multitude of reasons, owing mainly to that YVR is actually quite a desirable place to live. We can surmise generally speaking that the price elasticity of foreign money is much more inelastic than the demand of "local buyers".

I had a thought. What if we implemented a discount, or taxation system similar to what ICBC employed in the past few decades. Everyone starts with a certain price premium, call it a tax or whatever. Set it at say 30-40% or something ( pulling this out of thin air just for discussion purposes ). The number should be sizable, but not outrageous that it would turn off 99% of all potential off-shore money and immigrants.

This is the start line, and you qualify for a incremental discount every year you fulfill certain subset of conditions ( is a resident of BC, paying income taxes, etc ). So a new immigrant, or foreign investor, or student. You pay the full premium in your first year. This premium money is funneled back into the system to pay for subsidized co-op housing (I'm thinking housing plans not too dissimilar to those found in cities like Hong Kong and Japan where you own property with subsidies, and its much more restrictive on how you can sell etc. Its not social housing like our broken system where you literally have to be homeless or make minimum wage to qualify and can never see appreciable RE gains ) and funding transit and road infrastructure.

After X amount of years as tax-paying resident, you reach maximum discount (like ICBC) and have paid your dues and are able to purchase your next property at market value etc. Feel like something like this puts local buyers and foreign buyers together at the table while feeding social benefits at the lower end which really is another issue altogether.

What do you guys think, am I completely out to lunch on something like this. Realize it would likely never happen, just be interesting to discuss pie in the sky ideas.

Or hell, just flat tax non-resident purchases with ZERO if's and or buts might achieve the same thing but same thing. Likely would never happen...

[The Producer]

Originally Posted by Traum

I think a lot of critics have already mentioned this -- the ban on foreign ownership will not help much.

There are too many loopholes that can be used to bypass the ban. Another problem is, when it happens, it is really foreign capital being used to buy the properties, not the properties being bought by foreigners. Let's say rich mommy and daddy wants to move their money off shore, and they have a PR daughter here. Bank of mommy and daddy transfers the said money to PR daughter, and boom~ Properties are bought, and the ban avoided.

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2022/04...-corporations/

“Perhaps these foreign homebuyers don’t understand how easy it is to set up an anonymous shell corporation in Canada. Perhaps they stubbornly refuse to spend the extra ten minutes it would take to do so. Perhaps they just don’t like the word ‘shell’,” Trudeau explained. “But rest assured, for this incredibly tiny fraction of international homebuyers, the party is over.”

beaverton is a treasure

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

I also don't understand why we are trying to lower demand when the issue residents in the city are trying to all buy but can't afford to. That seems like it's clearly a supply issue, we have a ton of people who are ready to buy their first home around $400 - 700K but there's just not enough decent options out there to do so. Which is crazy because these people are usually in the top 10 - 20% of individual earners in Canada.

There's a significant perception among non-home owners that "toxic demand" (i.e. investors/REIT/foreigners) is driving the market upwards, out of step with "fundamentals". If you spend enough time on Twitter and Reddit, there is a significant enough voting bloc that is probably willing to throw their support behind xenophobic candidates if it means having those candidates do something to stop real estate appreciation. So, obviously, the Liberals had to do something to show, on the surface, that they're doing something about "toxic demand".

The reality is far muddier than simple solutions would suggest. Most people under the age of 40 still aspire to own detached houses. It's not foreigners or REITs buying these homes up - it's locals with a combination of wealth and high-incomes who are buying them. Someone I went to school with just purchased a $2.4M+ detached home in the suburbs. My sister-in-law and her husband just purchased a detached home in the same price range as well.

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

sure it fits but is it usable daily? y’all contortionists without parents or kids?
imagine paying 1M for a bedroom and be asked to ride the train or drive kei car as if this is in shinjuku
a freaking cx5 which is people often complain as being too small is already TYTE in these stalls

I’m glad someone’s making noise on a problem getting worse with every build

Everyone should drive a 2 seater, it makes condo parking a lot easier. Not to mention no need to drive your parents or kids because your condo is too small to have a family.

Originally Posted by Tapioca

The reality is far muddier than simple solutions would suggest. Most people under the age of 40 still aspire to own detached houses. It's not foreigners or REITs buying these homes up - it's locals with a combination of wealth and high-incomes who are buying them. Someone I went to school with just purchased a $2.4M+ detached home in the suburbs. My sister-in-law and her husband just purchased a detached home in the same price range as well.

I wonder what they do for a living to purchase a $2.4M+ home.

I've ran the math almost every day on the future projections on mine and SO's future earnings after 10+ years of experience. I think we'd be able to squeeze out at max leverage a house of like $1.7 - $2M if we don't account for rental income from the basement suite. So if we got a gift of around $300 - 600K from parent's house equity. Technically we could fall into that category that also picks up a $2.4M detached. But by then the $2.4M detached will likely be $3M lol.

[Hondaracer]

Tapioca = inside agent for the foreign buyers association

Lol jk

[hud 91gt]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

Everyone should drive a 2 seater, it makes condo parking a lot easier. Not to mention no need to drive your parents or kids because your condo is too small to have a family.



I wonder what they do for a living to purchase a $2.4M+ home.

I've ran the math almost every day on the future projections on mine and SO's future earnings after 10+ years of experience. I think we'd be able to squeeze out at max leverage a house of like $1.7 - $2M if we don't account for rental income from the basement suite. So if we got a gift of around $300 - 600K from parent's house equity. Technically we could fall into that category that also picks up a $2.4M detached. But by then the $2.4M detached will likely be $3M lol.

A majority of people buying detached housing have been in the market for years.

I can’t say I know of anyones first time home purchase being in the 1.5+ range.

[JDMDreams]

Selling your paid off house for $1.5 then rebuy at $2.5 isn't a huge stretch. Assuming you had investments over all those years + decent income + potential rental income on top.

Obviously it's not your gen z fresh out of school complaining they can't afford anything while drinking $8 Starbucks

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

Everyone should drive a 2 seater, it makes condo parking a lot easier. Not to mention no need to drive your parents or kids because your condo is too small to have a family.



I wonder what they do for a living to purchase a $2.4M+ home.

I've ran the math almost every day on the future projections on mine and SO's future earnings after 10+ years of experience. I think we'd be able to squeeze out at max leverage a house of like $1.7 - $2M if we don't account for rental income from the basement suite. So if we got a gift of around $300 - 600K from parent's house equity. Technically we could fall into that category that also picks up a $2.4M detached. But by then the $2.4M detached will likely be $3M lol.

You need to be making 300k with a very sizable down payment.

We had a down of 700k and barely eked by to buy a 2m house last year with 200k income and a kid. Market value judging from comparables are like 2.4-2.8m now. We would have needed significantly more income to close a house worth 400k more.

[SSM_DC5]

Supafamous, how much you buy your duplex for? I feel like this one is priced a little less and it's 11 yrs old VS your new build. The market is nuts and you've already made gains in the what? 6 months of ownership?

https://www.rew.ca/properties/397256...erty_click=map

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

I wonder what they do for a living to purchase a $2.4M+ home.

- 2 doctors
- 2 tech salaries

Yeah, we're talking like top 5% of income earners in Canada, but very few detached homes turn over each year relative to other property types, particularly in the Lower Mainland where they are an endangered species.

Like-minded people from similar socio-economic backgrounds are the ones who are buying those coveted detached homes.

[bcrdukes]

Revscene salaries are more like 1% of income earners.

[Hondaracer]

Revscene is kind of in the demographic of people who could own a home. Those like 88 and prior births are probably in the best position in terms of education, experience, and potentially inheritance or help from aging parents

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by SSM_DC5

Supafamous, how much you buy your duplex for? I feel like this one is priced a little less and it's 11 yrs old VS your new build. The market is nuts and you've already made gains in the what? 6 months of ownership?

https://www.rew.ca/properties/397256...erty_click=map

That's crazy. Mine is detached (3000sf) and I paid 2.26m (and GST). I'm a 10 min walk from that duplex.

This one is close to me as well, price seemed ambitious but who knows right?

https://www.rew.ca/properties/393856...rty_click=map#

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

- 2 doctors
- 2 tech salaries

Yeah, we're talking like top 5% of income earners in Canada, but very few detached homes turn over each year relative to other property types, particularly in the Lower Mainland where they are an endangered species.

Like-minded people from similar socio-economic backgrounds are the ones who are buying those coveted detached homes.

Even 2 tech salaries (or doctors) makes that tough b/c of the size of the downpayment. Saving 20% for a 2.4m home is really hard even for high earners (unless they bought in early or got a gift) - it's not like they hit high income till they are in well into their 30's.

re: 5% of income earners - I think it's even smaller than that. I think $300k household puts you into the top 2-3%

[mikemhg]

I worked for a lobbying firm for the construction industry and our propaganda pushed forward by the likes of Rich Coleman, Chris Gardner, and Jordan Bateman were always "We need more supply!!!"

That's a total lie and a misnomer, I'll tell you right now. We can't build our way out of this problem, supply is definitely an issue, but it's not the primary one.

https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-...-by-investors/

If new supply is simply gobbled up by the investor class, that doesn't fix any affordability or housing issues, not even in the slightest. If we're ever going to address this problem, we must enact strict restrictions on speculation and investment, along with government intervention in ensuring the development of accessible and affordable housing (something the Federal government has lagged behind for decades now).

Anything less are simple moral platitudes by the Trudeau government. I'll give them credit, at least they're trying, which I suppose is better then nothing.