Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[Traum]

Originally Posted by SSM_DC5

Has using inflation as a benchmark for wage increases worked in the past for any union?

Prior to this unprecedented collective bargaining outcome with the BCGEU, the only time I remember when a regular union was able to negotiate a favourable CBA with the BC gov is waaaay back before the 2010 Winter Olympics when Gordon Campbell negotiated in good faith because he wanted a smooth lead up to the Olympics and not run into any delays. Ever since that time, the BC Liberals have been major dickheads when it comes to collective bargaining, or the economy was bad enough that the gov at the time was able to use it as a convenient excuse to maintain a 0 - 2% wage increase. My mom was a BCGEU employee, and I remember her having at least 2 CBAs where there were some years with 0% wage increase, and some years with 0.5% - 1% wage increase.

The only other successful collective bargaining that I remember were the BCNU because they can literally grab the province's balls by threatening job action.

I don't think people are being greedy if they want to see purchasing power keep pace with inflation. However, I also think that the general trend for salaries is -- unless you work in a selected few fields where there is high growth / strong demand, your purchasing power will only continue to get eroded. It is an unfortunate byproduct of the ever-worsening income disparity.

[Hondaracer]

Join a union so you can get paid less than industry average and have worse job security

[Gerbs]

8.3% actual vs 8.1% expected US CPI

Prep for the priced in Oct 2022 increase, still have awhile to go. Inflation is so spooky for companies. Expenses are forecasted to increase 8ish% but sales need to follow but there's also a recession and lower demand

[donk.]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Join a union so you can get paid less than industry average and have worse job security

If there's anything I learned in trades, is that this statement is inaccurate

Electrical, HVAC, plumbing, pipe fitting, etc, all private companies pay you as least as possible until you bark for a raise / know what you are worth

Knowing what I know now, I would have went right into a union 8 years ago (pay wise)

[Hondaracer]

Well yea those unionized companies are the ones that get the massive jobs, 2-3 year high rise projects etc. they aren’t so readily available as say, residential construction etc.

Skilled trades are one thing, unionized jobs where your skills are what the company trained you for are somthing else.

If you think it’s hard to make a profit when your electrician is also your plumber, EI builders etc. try and hire unionized people to build a custom home or a town house development, it doesn’t happen lol

[quasi]

Originally Posted by donk.

If there's anything I learned in trades, is that this statement is inaccurate

Electrical, HVAC, plumbing, pipe fitting, etc, all private companies pay you as least as possible until you bark for a raise / know what you are worth

Knowing what I know now, I would have went right into a union 8 years ago (pay wise)

In the US or on the east coast this is even more true I believe. The west coast, at least in the industry I'm in Unions are pretty weak and don't have much of the work, at the end of the day it's almost always lowest bid unless games are played which does happen. That might be different in other trades, I'm not sure.

The know your worth thing is pretty key, you have to know it and demand it because most companies aren't going to just offer it up without a fight. I intend to go and get mine in the next 2-3 weeks, been dreading it a little only because I know if I don't get what I think I'm worth it's going to sour the relationship for sure, this is only the second construction company I've worked for 30 years in the industry and I don't want to leave but if I don't get what I know I'm worth and what I've already been offered by other companies I'll probably have no choice.

[Gh0st]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Join a union so you can get paid less than industry average and have worse job security

Explain how joining a union provides worse job security.

[smoothie.]

unions are the best

[sonick]

Originally Posted by Gh0st

Explain how joining a union provides worse job security.

DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH BRO

[Great68]

Originally Posted by Gh0st

Explain how joining a union provides worse job security.

Well one example: Say you're in a trade union (IBEW, UA etc) and work dries up with the company you're working for. You simply get sent back to the union hall and then could be working for whoever the hall sends you to next. If it's really slow you could be sitting around for a while, while those with higher seniority get the first call.

And you're forbidden from ever working with a non-union company, so you can't look there for work if you need it otherwise you'll get booted from the union.

And despite what people may think, the cream does rise to the top and there are ways to get those good workers to stay regardless of their seniority levels (so shitty workers can't always bank on their seniority to get them work)

[Hondaracer]

^
And that’s a best case scenario.

I’m not going to get into it as it could bite me in the ass but both my union and a friend who works for the VSB, both of them are laughable thinking you have any more protection than you would with a private company.

[PeanutButter]

Originally Posted by supafamous

$7k is about as much I'm comfortable paying a month but it's not the end of the world yet. We are building out our rental suites right now and will have that coming online by Jan or so which will give us a lot of breathing room. There's no short term impact but it does affect my bigger picture plans like retirement though.

If it hits $10k/mo though you'll see me sticking stuff into my butt on OnlyFans.

Do you feel like renting out your units aren't even worth it?

I have a suite that gets $1600 a month, but after taxes it's like $900 take home. I'm not even sure if $900 a month extra is even worth the hassle of having tenants.

Then again, it sounds like you have multiple suites and probably a bigger house. Our main living area is about 1200 sq/ft. It would be nice to have more space as our family is growing. Once our two kids get older, we would need the space for sure.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by PeanutButter

Do you feel like renting out your units aren't even worth it?

I have a suite that gets $1600 a month, but after taxes it's like $900 take home. I'm not even sure if $900 a month extra is even worth the hassle of having tenants.

Then again, it sounds like you have multiple suites and probably a bigger house. Our main living area is about 1200 sq/ft. It would be nice to have more space as our family is growing. Once our two kids get older, we would need the space for sure.

How many hours would you have to work at your job to make $900 a month?

[68style]

Originally Posted by Manic!

How many hours would you have to work at your job to make $900 a month?

I think what os getting at a lot of people is that they could make more than $x a month investing the cash that the property represents assuming that real estate prices are not going to continue to increase.

A lot of peope I know are considering this first world conundrum right now.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by PeanutButter

Do you feel like renting out your units aren't even worth it?

I have a suite that gets $1600 a month, but after taxes it's like $900 take home. I'm not even sure if $900 a month extra is even worth the hassle of having tenants.

Then again, it sounds like you have multiple suites and probably a bigger house. Our main living area is about 1200 sq/ft. It would be nice to have more space as our family is growing. Once our two kids get older, we would need the space for sure.

I have a 3000sf house and the rentals take up about 1200sf of it so it's not an inconvenience for us in terms of space since we're just a 3 person household (we retain 4 bedrooms and 3 baths). One of the suites is a separate building so we weren't going to use it anyways (one day it'll be my man cave). I was in your situation just a year ago though - had 1200sf to ourselves and rented out 600sf for $1350/mo and during early COVID our tenant moved out and we kept the space for a while and it was nice to stretch out in the suite.

We debated only renting one suite out and keeping the other one but with the rates the way they are we're going to rent out both for now - we're going to give AirBnB a try for one of the suites so we have flexibility. We'll see how much of a hassle it is though. If rates come back down in a couple years or my income goes up some more then I'd definitely take the space back.

We've generally had really good luck with our tenants - very low maintenance and tidy people that we got along with so we haven't soured on the dealing with them.

re: taxes - are you taking advantage of all the write-offs available to you? Interest, insurance, etc. The gap should be a lot closer for you if you have a sizeable mortgage. In my case I could write off up to 40% of my mortgage interest which is going to be substantial at the start of a mortgage (there can be a price to be paid later when you sell though). My interest next year will probably be in the $45-60k range (hahahah! cries) and writing off 40% of that offsets a lot of the rental income, add in insurance, operating costs etc and I'm not paying too much in taxes.

[rb]

A bit of an odd question to ask in this thread but does any RS baller own/operate a multi-res? if so, have a few questions mainly to due with financing. We can talk through PM. thanks

[Hondaracer]

Supafamous how many nights a month do you think you’ll have to rent out the Airbnb to get close to a regular full-time tenant?

Previously when I looked it was going to be like 20+ days a month for me to come out ahead VS a regular tenant. I’m sure you’ve done your research or are willing to take less for the flexibility. My next door Neighbor who knows nothing about Airbnb or how it works had this grand plan to make “5 thousand a month” Airbnbing his whole home. Then I showed him comparables in the neighborhood lol… in east van during the shoulder seasons you can rent brand new 5 bedroom homes for like 10-12k for 3 months in some cases

[TOS'd]

Where is the best place to look for short-term rentals in Vancouver? I'm looking for something for 2 months roughly. Ideally 2bd 2ba + parking or bigger.

[sdubfid]

Originally Posted by PeanutButter

Do you feel like renting out your units aren't even worth it?

I have a suite that gets $1600 a month, but after taxes it's like $900 take home. I'm not even sure if $900 a month extra is even worth the hassle of having tenants.

Then again, it sounds like you have multiple suites and probably a bigger house. Our main living area is about 1200 sq/ft. It would be nice to have more space as our family is growing. Once our two kids get older, we would need the space for sure.

There are many variables missing here if you are looking at it from a financial standpoint. If it’s a lifestyle question then we can’t answer that.

Make a list of all the expenses, down payment, square footage of the suite vs house.

As an example I have a place that cashflows $450 a month. Doesn’t seem like much but considering only a $20000 down payment then it’s like a 25% return yearly and that doesn’t include appreciation or paying down the principal.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Supafamous how many nights a month do you think you’ll have to rent out the Airbnb to get close to a regular full-time tenant?

Previously when I looked it was going to be like 20+ days a month for me to come out ahead VS a regular tenant. I’m sure you’ve done your research or are willing to take less for the flexibility. My next door Neighbor who knows nothing about Airbnb or how it works had this grand plan to make “5 thousand a month” Airbnbing his whole home. Then I showed him comparables in the neighborhood lol… in east van during the shoulder seasons you can rent brand new 5 bedroom homes for like 10-12k for 3 months in some cases

It looks like in my neck of the woods (Central Park) that I'll come out ahead at ~15 days/mo. Around Metrotown new 1 bedroom AirBnBs go for $200/night and seem fairly booked up - I can't charge that much though. I think I need to net $1500-2000/mo to make it worth the extra hassle.

For what it's worth, rental rates have gone bananas around this part of town in the past year - it's easily up 25-30% in a year. It's crazy.

[Special K]

It’s an interesting spiral in the rental market.

High inflation - increase interest rates - increase rent to cover mortgage - higher inflation. Repeat.

Onto the topic of rentals…

If you have enough equity for downpayment (most difficult part), an E. Van detached with 1bd, 2bd, and 2bd laneway will generate $1200+1800+2200 = $5200 (estimates). Before taxes, $5200 is enough cash flow to service a $1-1.2M mortgage at 2-3%. Add another $300k-600k mortgage is not unrealistic depending on salaries. Owner lives on the main floor or if lucky, top 2 floors. I believe that’s why we are seeing prices shoot up to $2.5-3M for 3 level + laneway houses in 2021.


Take a $1.3M 3bd townhouse. Mortgage at $800k is about $3500/month at 2-3% rates. Plus $300-500 strata.

Would you want to pay for a townhouse for $4k/month or net $4k/month detached?

[donk.]

Originally Posted by Special K

It’s an interesting spiral in the rental market.

High inflation - increase interest rates - increase rent to cover mortgage - higher inflation. Repeat.

I don't think people with higher mortgage payments, are pushing that cost onto the tenants. Only new leases, and that's only because the market is demanding high rents

Moreso all those people that wanted to buy, but could not, and are now finding a place to rent

Ex. Pre rate hikes > Skyrocketing purchase prices due to cheap rates

Ex. Post rate hikes > Severe buying power reduction, while the market is "still" high

Then add in everything else
-High rental demand
-Maybe a bunch of rental homes were sold and new owners are occupying them
-During covid construction slowed down new builds > less older inventory > less rentals available
-After covid, all these labour and part shortages are not helping with new builds / inventory
-immigration back to normal?

I think the rental market will continue to rise, while the purchasing market drops, until 2008 hits that is...

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Special K

It’s an interesting spiral in the rental market.

High inflation - increase interest rates - increase rent to cover mortgage - higher inflation. Repeat.

I don't think higher interest rates/inflation are driving rental prices higher though - the supply just sucks ass. Even doing research on what's a fair price to charge for my rental is hard b/c there's so few listings out there right now.

Along the Joyce to Metrotown corridor there's a total of only 70 rentals of any kind available on FB and there's a LOT of housing along that corridor. There's another 15 around 29th Avenue while the Gilmore/Brentwood/Holdom stretch has only 28 units up for rent. That's just ridiculously low considering how many apartment buildings are in those areas (I count at least 60 via Google Maps - figure 30 stories each at 6 units/floor...)

Originally Posted by Special K

Onto the topic of rentals…

If you have enough equity for downpayment (most difficult part), an E. Van detached with 1bd, 2bd, and 2bd laneway will generate $1200+1800+2200 = $5200 (estimates). Before taxes, $5200 is enough cash flow to service a $1-1.2M mortgage at 2-3%. Add another $300k-600k mortgage is not unrealistic depending on salaries. Owner lives on the main floor or if lucky, top 2 floors. I believe that’s why we are seeing prices shoot up to $2.5-3M for 3 level + laneway houses in 2021.

Take a $1.3M 3bd townhouse. Mortgage at $800k is about $3500/month at 2-3% rates. Plus $300-500 strata.

Would you want to pay for a townhouse for $4k/month or net $4k/month detached?

Yup, detached or duplexes with a suite are where it's at if one can find the downpayment - you can easily come out spending less on a home as long as you don't mind being a landlord. As always, the poor and working class get screwed.

[Special K]

In summer 2021, I saw a 2010 built 33x100 house near 33rd between Fraser and Knight.

Approx rent:
Main 2 floors - $3500
1bd suite - $1000
2bd suite - $1500
Laneway - $1500
Total cash flow $7500.

Asking was $2.5M and sat for 2-3 months in a super hot market. Owner probably was is in no rush to sell with a cash cow like that.

Inside was in pretty horrible condition. Tenants didn’t care and have pets.


Imagine scaling to 2+ houses like that. Rich gets richer.

[PeanutButter]

Originally Posted by Manic!

How many hours would you have to work at your job to make $900 a month?

My salary is all over the place, some days I could make $900 a day, but I don't work every day. I work about 30 hours a week, so it's really variable. Last month I made $7k, before that I made 10k, before that I made 13k (all gross).


@supafamous, you're right i'm not accounting for my right offs, I just went $1600 - 43%(tax) to get $900. So i'm probably making more than $900 with the write-offs.

I did about $15k in renovations for the downstairs that I still haven't claimed on my taxes yet because I was told if I do that, that will affect my capital gains when I sell in the future? I need to talk to an accountant about that before I claim those renovations.