Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by multicartual

>hits bong<


I don't even want to reproduce if it would mean I have to live in East Van with the unwashed masses
!

[iEatClams]

Vancouver is a city of haves and have-nots.

I count my blessings so to speak because I work in the real estate industry and thus have been better off financially for it. But my brother and friends work in IT and accountings fields and they aren't having as much success as I am. Am I smarter than them?, absolutely not. Luckily for me I am in a more analytical role where a downtown in housing prices wont negatively affect me too much. But point is that many people are struggling in this town as wages are relatively low and there's not many opportunities.

While the ones that were in early in real estate made a killing, be it realtors, developers etc. But that's changing quickly as prices are at a peak and everyone including their grandma is now in a real estate related (realtors, mortgage brokers, developer etc). and most of these new guys are too green and will get slaughtered.

[4444]

Originally Posted by quasi

As far as I can remember it's always been expensive relative to the rest of the Country.

Ok, not what I was saying. Expensive versus rent/income.

What Toronto does compared to Vancouver is irrelevant

[iEatClams]

Interesting article on chinese money in Vancouver.

Housing in Vancouver: The B.C. bolthole | The Economist

PROPERTY speculation in Vancouver has a new meaning these days: wondering what exactly is driving up prices in the least affordable housing market in North America (see chart). The average sale price of a single-family detached home is now around C$1m ($920,000). Over the past five years, Vancouver homes worth C$1m-2m have doubled in value, according to tax-assessment records.


That puts property beyond the reach of most local residents. A Vancouver family earned a paltry $68,970 total median income in 2011, putting them 23rd out of the 28 major cities in Canada. Although Canadian consumers are taking on more debt, credit growth cannot explain the price-to-income multiples in Vancouver. The likely culprit is an influx of foreign, and especially Chinese, capital, as people move money from the mainland to a safe and pretty spot.

But exactly how much of Vancouver’s property market is being fuelled by foreigners, and how rapidly they might disappear, is uncertain. Although there are data on investor immigrants—those who have at least $800,000 to invest in order to fast track their application to get Canadian citizenship—there isn’t information on where they are investing their money or how much goes into property.

So analysts have had to look for patterns themselves. One study monitored electricity bills as a way of figuring out how many high-end city-centre condominiums sit empty most of the year. That analysis led to the conclusion that foreign investors own 8 out of every 100 apartments in pricey areas in downtown Vancouver. Another survey tracked where municipal assessments of property values were sent and found that less than 1% was mailed overseas to China. Yet another report counted mainland Chinese-sounding names on sales records for luxury homes that were priced at C$3m and more: 74% of the buyers ticked this box.

Another option is to look at macro-level data. Robin Wiebe of the Conference Board of Canada, a research outfit, has charted the links between China’s economic health and the local housing market in Vancouver, and found significant correlations between China’s real GDP growth and growth in housing prices. Urban planner Andy Yan, who sits on the city’s planning committee, says that understanding the impact of foreign investors on real estate is like searching for the Higgs particle. “Everyone knows it’s there, but it’s proving it that’s the problem. We know it’s not wage growth; and it isn’t the economy here. All we know is that in Vancouver, real estate has been de-coupled from the local economy.”

If so, prices may soon drop back. The number of investor immigrants has dropped since 2012; earlier this year, the Canadian government axed the programme entirely. That should soon give analysts more clues to the mystery of the Vancouver housing market.

all I know is prices so far have gone up this year.

I'm more curious as to how the condo market will play out with all the condos coming into completion (false creek/ metrotown / brentwood / richmond) in the next year.

[GS8]

BC Butthole is more like it

I mean it DOES sit in the lower area of the province

[Shark Tank]

2 most expensive properties in Vancouver

CONDO:
3101 277 THURLOW Street in Vancouver: Coal Harbour Condo for sale in "THREE HARBOUR GREEN" (Vancouver West) : MLS(r) # V1027628

HOUSE:
Home for Sale - 3838 CYPRESS ST # 1 & 2, Vancouver, BC V6J 3P3 - MLS® ID V1018083

The 2 places have been on the market for awhile. Surprised they havent been scooped from a chinese billionaire power couple

[Harvey Specter]

^
Always nice to go through a list of overpriced homes in and over hyped neighborhoods.

[Adrenaline Rush]

An interesting article in the Sun by Peter McMartin today..

Pete McMartin: Not all doom and gloom for Metro Vancouver housing

Yes, I know, Vancouver, it’s very expensive. I’ve heard.

I’ve heard nothing else. Stratospheric home prices. A city of homeowners who are hanging on to their houses by their fingernails, and who are saddled with enormous mortgages that impoverish them. A generation of the young that will never, ever be able to afford a home in the Metro area. A global city where only the very rich can afford to live, who are displacing the native-born who will now be forced to live in the, ugh, hinterland.

Can we all now take a deep breath here?

Can I offer a slightly alternative, and contrarian, view?

It’s this:

Despite the cost of homes in Metro Vancouver, and despite the volatility of its market, there remains a surprisingly sizable and stable core of homeowners who can easily afford their monthly mortgage payments or, even more significantly, who own their homes mortgage-free.

Yet in most of the media stories about housing prices in Vancouver and Metro Vancouver, these homeowners are rarely mentioned, as if they weren’t worthy of mention or if their presence didn’t reflect the true picture of the housing market here.

The opposite is true. Their exclusion distorts the overall picture, and offers only a depressing picture of the housing profile. It isn’t all doom and gloom.

For example:

According to Statistics Canada’s 2011 National Housing Survey, almost 48 per cent of “owner households” in the city of Vancouver do not have a mortgage. Nada. Nothing.

For all of Metro Vancouver — which would include the city plus the suburbs — the percentage of mortgage-free owner households falls to 41 per cent, which is understandable, given that many of suburban homeowners are younger, first-time buyers who have had to assume mortgages.

Still, that almost half of all homeowners in the city proper are entirely unburdened by a mortgage seems, to me, to be a significant housing fact that deserves mention. It rarely is. Yet in one of the world’s most expensive housing markets, here is a very large, secure and stable core of homeowners where affordability is not an immediate concern for them, if ever.

What about those homeowners who do carry mortgages?

Much has been made of the image of homeowners pouring all their earnings into huge mortgage payments. Story after story insists that to own a home and to carry a mortgage is to invite impoverishment.

Yet again, the numbers suggest otherwise.

According to the survey, 29 per cent of owner households in the city of Vancouver spend more than 30 per cent of total household income on all related shelter costs — costs which include mortgages, taxes and utility bills. That’s a significant enough figure in itself, and by no means would I attempt to diminish the significance of it, especially to those homeowners who do struggle to pay their mortgages, but it is nowhere near the majority. For the majority, household costs would seem to be manageable.

As for the Metro Vancouver area, the percentage of homeowner households that spend more than 30 per cent of total household income on all related shelter costs is even less, at 27.6 per cent. That lower figure is likely a result of cheaper housing in the suburbs.

The real burden when it comes to household costs — if I’m interpreting the numbers correctly — is borne by those who rent.


It could be the result of a tight rental market, or possibly their lower household incomes on average, but in Vancouver, 46 per cent of tenant households spend 30 per cent or more of total household income on shelter costs. In Metro Vancouver, it’s a little lower at 45 per cent. Those numbers are significant, and if ever there were an argument for home ownership over renting, that’s it.

As for those members of the younger generation never being able to afford to live in Vancouver and Metro Vancouver, well, markets are fluid, demographics are everything and, as far as I’m aware, people still die and pass on inheritances to their children. In the case of the Vancouver housing market, those inheritances will be very sizable.

Will those children be able to live in the neighbourhoods in which their parents raised them? Maybe, maybe not, but when is anyone ever guaranteed that, especially in a city as desirable to live in as Vancouver?

But odds are they’ll be able to afford a home.

They can count themselves lucky.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline Rush

It could be the result of a tight rental market, or possibly their lower household incomes on average, but in Vancouver, 46 per cent of tenant households spend 30 per cent or more of total household income on shelter costs. In Metro Vancouver, it’s a little lower at 45 per cent. Those numbers are significant, and if ever there were an argument for home ownership over renting, that’s it.

If you can consider this an argument to own over rent, you really don't understand that once you purchase a home, your income doesn't automatically multiply x10. Renters spend more % of their income on rent because of an obviously lower median income of the average renter than the average homeowner. I used to think I was bad at math in high school/university, but every time I read something like that I feel like I could be the minister of finance.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Shark Tank

The 2 places have been on the market for awhile. Surprised they havent been scooped from a chinese billionaire power couple

Just because they are rich doesn't mean they abandon their Chinese principles--gota hunt for the deal still

[Gululu]

brentwood mall tower 1 sells out in 4 hours.
First Brentwood mall tower sells out in hours - Burnaby NewsLeader



Although I'm not a fan of condos, but it Looks like a healthy condo market to me. Demand is strong. People were camping in tents the day before. 280 units All sold out by 3pm, sales started only at 11am. Can't say I'm surprised, north burnaby has been desirable. Close to sfu, skytrain, etc.

[Harvey Specter]

I believe long term condos will be a good investment. More and more people can't afford to buy homes, hell some can't even afford to buy condos because they can't come up with the down payment so they're renting. The thing with condos is it's all about the area and the building. Downtown is a no brainier if you're looking for a good investment with a nice monthly return but even in DT the monthly rent varies quite a bit depending on the area. If you're in and around YT than you'll get a nice rental income and you won't have issues renting. other parts it's harder to rent.

I own a few units right now in DT, my goal is own at least 10 rental units within the next 5 years and expand outside of DT into Richmond, Burnaby and other parts of Vancouver.

[multicartual]

A big part of why Vancouver is so expensive is everyone is looking to make money from renters


New system of serfs and lords!

[Ludepower]

market will dip or stay stale. there's no crash.
worry about how much you make instead.

[Shark Tank]

Originally Posted by multicartual

A big part of why Vancouver is so expensive is everyone is looking to make money from renters


New system of serfs and lords!

No everyone wants to live in downtown. Supply & demand simple economics 101. Most people dont want to live in the suburbs. Downtown = Stanley Park, Top Sushi, Rogers Arena, BC Place, Nightclubs, Concerts, City Vibe, Shopping (Gucci,LV,Hermes)

Average prices
Condo's in downtown = $900K CDN - Millions
Burnaby/Richmond/Everywhere else = $500K-700K CDN

[bing]

Originally Posted by Shark Tank

No everyone wants to live in downtown. Supply & demand simple economics 101. Most people dont want to live in the suburbs. Downtown = Stanley Park, Top Sushi, Rogers Arena, BC Place, Nightclubs, Concerts, City Vibe, Shopping (Gucci,LV,Hermes)

Average prices
Condo's in downtown = $900K CDN - Millions
Burnaby/Richmond/Everywhere else = $500K-700K CDN

That would depend on the area, number of rooms, sq ft of unit, etc.

Not everything DT is Yaletown pricing. I know for a fact you can find 2BR townhomes for 8-900k.

[godwin]

Well some people like you like to spend it on hookers and blow, while others like to spend it on real estate.. Democracy and Free society at work!

Originally Posted by multicartual

New system of serfs and lords!

[Hondaracer]

was kind of tempted by the brentwood towers but not enough dough to toss around for dat risk

Also Surrey market is pretty much a joke and i lol @ all these people who talk about their shitty condos and low rises in whalley etc. going up in value, the market is so fucking saturated people are selling at big time losses just to get out.

me and my parents own a couple places in the central city/whalley area, we got these units at basically 15-20% BELOW pre-sale value [knowing the builder/developer, buying the show suites, etc.] fast forward 5 years and my parents are just looking to GTFO of their low rise there because it's a fucking hell hole for renters, parties all night long, shady people, a shit hole, couldnt pay me to live there. We've gone through 4 renters in the last 5 years and finally said fuck it, we need to get out

Pricing at 199 we are taking a 10k hair cut on our initial investment 5 years later and there is still little interest [decent unit too, relatively speaking]

[xpl0sive]

Originally Posted by riff raff

I believe long term condos will be a good investment. More and more people can't afford to buy homes, hell some can't even afford to buy condos because they can't come up with the down payment so they're renting. The thing with condos is it's all about the area and the building. Downtown is a no brainier if you're looking for a good investment with a nice monthly return but even in DT the monthly rent varies quite a bit depending on the area. If you're in and around YT than you'll get a nice rental income and you won't have issues renting. other parts it's harder to rent.

I own a few units right now in DT, my goal is own at least 10 rental units within the next 5 years and expand outside of DT into Richmond, Burnaby and other parts of Vancouver.

I don't see how you could be getting a "nice monthly return" owning and renting apartments downtown. The only way is if you bought them cheap or put a huge down payment down. I had two apartments, one on Richards and another on West Georgia. Both were two bedroom, furnished units. the mortgage + strata fees, utilities, etc, were about $2500/month. I was renting them out for $2,800/month. Having to deal with new tenants, dirty students, doing constant repairs was not worth $300/month for me. The down payments I put down on those places would easily make me that kind of return just sitting in GIC's. So I sold both units, broke even on the West Georgia one and made about $25k on the Richards one. I just don't see it being profitable to buy to rent in the current market...

[Harvey Specter]

Originally Posted by xpl0sive

I don't see how you could be getting a "nice monthly return" owning and renting apartments downtown. The only way is if you bought them cheap or put a huge down payment down. I had two apartments, one on Richards and another on West Georgia. Both were two bedroom, furnished units. the mortgage + strata fees, utilities, etc, were about $2500/month. I was renting them out for $2,800/month. Having to deal with new tenants, dirty students, doing constant repairs was not worth $300/month for me. The down payments I put down on those places would easily make me that kind of return just sitting in GIC's. So I sold both units, broke even on the West Georgia one and made about $25k on the Richards one. I just don't see it being profitable to buy to rent in the current market...

Your first problem was buying two bedroom units. I wouldn't think of ever buying a two bedroom in today's market for investment purposes. Two bedrooms are too expensive, a lot of units are on the market which tend to sit and you can never get enough rent to cover your costs.

All the units are own are one bedrooms and in buildings with low strata. I never furnish my units because it's not worth it and honestly you don't get much in return if it is furnished. I don't touch renters who are students and I look for tenants who want to sign a year+ lease. Yes you're going to get bad tenants but that's part of the game.

I keep things within my means. I have a set price rang and I look for units in buildings where I already own units because I know the strata and comps. I'm not in the market to buy a unit and flip in a year or two, I'm looking long term.

[iEatClams]

It really depends on the price that you bought it too. I have a property that I bought in 2010, prices were much cheaper then and also I was able to have 35 year amortization do to the mortgage rules back then.

If I buy the same property (detached SFD) today I wont be able to have positive cashflow because prices are much higher.

Its tough to make money in the condo market today as it's becoming saturated with soo much supply. Sure there are some deals out there but majority isnt. My brothers condo has someone listing their unit for $5K less than the price they bought it 15 months ago.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Don't even rent to students especially Chinese International Students (sorry if this is bias).

I went to several apartments that's for sale all rented to Chinese Students (mostly International) and they simply trash the place. One unit there are 4 giant bags of garbages laying in kitchen, the stove and the kitchen walls, the stink looks like it was never ever clean (the Stove have so much junk sticking on it I am surprise they can use it to cook), washroom was never clean (you could see green dots on the titles in the bathroom) the toliets smells like shit hole, the hardwood floor destroy. The whole place smells like shit. I am just shock how does one live in this shit hole let alone a couple with a dog.........

I also have friends who came from China and although not as messy but I still found some things they do a bit unhealthy or dirty.

The area is very important for apartments. Need to buy near skytrains yet not so close so it is not so loud. Also one bedroom + den seems to be the hot seller and rent the most money per sq ft. Also if it is possible purchase an extra parking spot if you could. Even if you don't drive or only have one car, you can rent the other parking spot for at least $200 per month and more depending on the area. Some apartments don't even allow/offer parking to studios because there isn't enough parking spot........ I think there is a bylaw how many parking spots you can have per apartment or something like that. Last when I purchase my apartment they don't even allow/offer the option for any unit under 10th floor a parking.......

[Harvey Specter]

Never buy a unit in a building with units rented to international students.

The oldest trick in the book for international students is to lie and say it's only them + their bf/gf. A few weeks after moving in they'll start moving in their friends and your tiny 500 sq/ft unit might have 8 people living in it. It's happen to people I know.

And you're correct; one bedrooms + parking spot and the right area are selling like hot cakes right now. I was looking at a unit on Seymour St. a couple months back, it was priced for $349,000, around 540 sq/ft, rented out with someone paying $1600/month with a parking spot. It was sold within 24 hours, all cash offer and buyer was from Italy. And new buildings in DT are asking for $35k+ for parking spots and you'll be lucky to even get one if you're just buying a one bedroom.

[Mr.HappySilp]

^^ A few areas in Burnaby the city is turning into a Mega condo city. Metrotown, Brentwood area are two. There is also Lougheedmall and Oakridge. Is nice a few steps to shopping and skytrain but way too overcrowded. I could only image how populated these areas will get once all the apartments are built.

[multicartual]

Landlords are going to live far away from all of the condos they rent because they will turn into inner-city ghettos eventually