Good/Reputable Mechanic?!
 

Hey Revscene,

I don't know if this is the right place to post this, (if it isn't please forgive me) but...
I have a 2004 Acura TL, recently a mouse chewed the wire on my knock sensor. CEL light came on, starting throwing codes so I went to a dealer to get it checked out during my last oil change. Quoted me $247 +tax at Vancouver Honda for labour and parts. But when I got it fixed today, the invoice came out to about $590, it isn't even that hard!! As the knock sensor itself cost only $60-70, 1hr labour shouldn't have been that much :suspicious:. The only reason I go to the dealer is that they are surely covered under my used car warranty (FCPP). But I realized that warranty shit is also a scam as well now, since the service guy said that it won't be covered cause it's not a "natural" failure, because a mouse chewed it blah blah blah. I just hate how they think everyone is so stupid, and how they try to milk us of our money, it's really not fair. I really hate it, really do.. My dad thinks that Acuras aren't reliable now, and are expensive to repair but I disagree because they're still Hondas at heart. He wants to sell it now, and buy a Kia or an Echo or something :cry:. But aside from that, is there a good mechanic for Honda/Acura or just japanese cars that has good labour prices and does good work, with good service as well? Do you guys think there is something wrong here? How can $247 estimate become $600?! *Sigh* I really don't want to sell it because of these stupid reasons, I really love my TL :(

The extra charges aren't just for 1 hour of labour. Look at your invoice, it will give you a breakdown of the charges.

Regarding the warranty, it is not a scam. Warranties are for repairs due to mechanical failure. You said the problem was due to chewed wires. If you get into an accident are you going to try and claim that under your warranty? Of course not.

Check our sponsor forum or do a search. This mechanic question has been asked a thousand times.

You need to read your invoice and see what else was done. This is a fairly common issue when the weather starts getting cold, and mice look for warm spots to hide. We normally charge .5hrs for diag once we have pulled the code and seen what it was. Then its normally 1.5hrs to replace, plus about $12? for the wire. Sometimes the sensor has to be replaced as well, as it can break pretty easy when trying to remove to connector (it gets brittle from the heat) All this normally adds up to about the $247 that you were quoted.

This is never covered under warranty, the dealer will never get paid back by the warranty company, therefor they cannot do it for you for free. Its called a business not a charity.

shouldn't they have called you to confirm the extra work they were going to do before doubling the quote?

I wouldv charged you 20 bucks to re-wire your o2 sensor for you,

never, ever,

take your car to a dealership, or a shop,

Take it as a lesson learned, next time ask for help on here first before taking it somewhere

pulling a code, about 0.5hrs
electrical diag, about 1.0hrs dependant on the code.
fix due to conclusion from diag, dependant, but if its the o2, depending if its pre cat or post cat (upstream from cat converter or downstream from cat converter), dependant on bank 1 or bank 2 (if the manifold is based off of a 4cyl, 6cyl, 8, or even 10cyl)

usually if a customer is going ahead with the fix, the actually fix itself is less due to diag processess.


advisor should have requested xxx amount of time needed for diag, then called or requested/suggested/provided quote if its a certain suspected item.

eg, brakes, if ur brakes are squealing or the warning light is on, should give a quote of 0.5hr or less (dependant on car) to inspect the brakes. then provide a quote for either fronts, rears, or both, expecting if it should happen to be the brakes, what to expect. you can then decide on the spot how much to be expecting.

a good shop would provide you with numbers, measurements, and you can always request to see the parts that were deemed needed replacing.

the problem with check engine lights is it can be anything. from a loose fuel cap, straight to one of many sensors in the engine getting triggered. hence why the diag time. a cel code only points you in the direction, doesnt tell you what exact problem is. the diag time goes to testing each suspected item. with the computers in the cars these days, can be the sensor, can be the wires, can be the computer that controls it all. can even be something else all together causing that sensor/wire/control unit to trigger.

1/2 hour book time for pulling a code? Didn't realize a 30 second job could be billed for so much
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50 dollar code reader vs 40,000 dollar snap on scan tool, thats the difference. shops dont use car doctors like the infomercial says.

code readers are like compasses. scan tools like gps.

however if you feel up to it, use the code reader, and start doing your research. if you fuck up, the dealership/shops are there.

KNOCK sensor, where did you get O2 sensor from?

The knock sensor is located under the intake manifold, between the heads. You are supposed to removed the manifold to change it. IF you have small hands, and are lucky on the angle, you can get away with removing the power steering pump and a couple brackets and sliding your hand in. But if the sensor breaks, you have now wasted your time and need to take the manifold off anyways

Yes, I have checked the invoice and it says that it was "parts + labour" only, that's what I don't get? They quoted me $247 but made the bill to $590? They didn't even tell us they were going to do extra labour.. And my warranty plan brochure says that the knock sensor is covered but the service guy kept saying the company won't pay for it? Too much stress............ Should just go to a small mechanic shop, this warranty stuff is bullshit.. I understand it's a business and all but I have paid over $2000 for this warranty, can I not get atleast a small reimbursement of said amount back, what's the point of buying the warranty then? Not even an accident or anything, knock sensor just went out since it was chewed, don't see how that's "un-natural", I can't control these things, not like I sent the mouse myself in there to chew the wires so I can get $300 back? WTF..
Edit: They quoted me this price AFTER diag (which I paid $80 for already), at the oil change, was a P0325 I think

That's how dealerships operate, learn this fact better now than later.

I went in for warranty work one time and a service manager tried to convince me that the failure happened outside of "normal parameters" and that warranty could not cover it so he wanted to charge me 2k +
I told him to fuck off and the only reason I'm there is because it's a known issue confirmed by Nissan and covered by warranty, I'm not an idiot.
They reluctantly did the work after seeing they couldn't sucker me, but afterwards they tried to sell me a transmission flush, saying my fluids were very dirty and due for a change..... I had just gotten my tranny flush 2 months prior and it was squeaky clean, but they were just trying to milk whatever they could out of me, hated the fact I got free warranty work done.

Anyway the point of the story is, that this type of behavior is not only acceptable but encouraged at MOST dealerships, the sooner everyone stops being naive to this fact the sooner we just might get some proper business ethics from these dealers for once.

Did your knock sensor stop working because of a failure within the part? No
A mouse chewed the wire, that's no different than if I had just reached in and wrecked it myself.

Just because you didn't do it yourself, doesn't mean the part failed, the part was wrecked

If a bear breaks in and destroys your seats, is warranty going to cover it? No
If your seats have issues with seams failing or something will warranty cover it? Yes, because they made the seats, and now its failing

ah sorry, my bad,

I wouldv charged 40 bucks to re-wire the knock sensor.

Never get the warranty man, thats how they make all their money.

When you buy a new car, expect it to last 10 years at least, when doing all the proper maintenance.

the warranty usually lasts 10 years, and nothing goes wrong if you do all your maintenance.

but maintenance isnt covered under warranty,

see where im going with this?

dealership will claim wear and tear instead

That's just fucked up man.Did you complain to Nissan Canada about this,cause I would have.

Which Nissan stealership was this,just so I know to never deal with them and advise others not the deal with them either.

Let me guess, 2005-2009 Nissan Pathfinder, transmission problems?

Wow dude, thats fucked up.. Atleast you talked them out of it though, and stood your ground. I don't know how exactly I am going to dispute this, cause my dad doesn't even have $600 to spare at the moment! Really should raise awareness to it, who said dealers are better than smaller shops? I hate them... Shit thanks Glove, I'll definitely let you know next time man. The time they sell the warranty, they're so pushy about it "It's a great thing to fall back on so you know you're safe if something 'big' breaks" like seriously if it's as good a car you make it out to be, this "something big" shouldn't "break" when maintenance is done properly.. Or "You can't buy it after this, it is a one time thing" yeah right just checked FCPP and it said you can purchase anytime as it is a used car, guess life is just trial and error.. I hope people learn from this at the very least, the world is filled with liars and scumbags

Your retarded for thinking warranty covers mouse damage.
You can claim comprehensive from your insurance in instances like these.

Are honest mechanics really that rare? I had a bmw mechanic tell me today that brake pads and rotors always have to be replaced together for bmw's. Fucking thieves.

oem textar pads are hard compounds. ever wonder why bmw brakes feel so much grabbier than others? if you dont believe, take a look at your rotors yourself. look at the edge. if there is an edge build up, you might as well replace the rotors because to machine them will cost just as much, and they may not even last thru your new set of brake pads.

brake pads hit the wear sensor at about 3mm remain. request to see the rotor measurement and the pad measurement. i forgot the actual rotor measurement thickness. but it has always been reconmended to have the brake rotors changed at the same time as the pads on bmw's due to the hard pad compount and soft rotor = best combo for braking.

you can get away with machining rotors on japanese vehicles when it comes time to change the pads.

on the brake subject, i've gotten away with machining some rotors on my parents' BMW's.

On my own car, I always like to replace the rotors and pads everytime. It helps reduce warped rotors, and noises.

I tell this to customers all the time. I give them the choice. Ofcourse if the rotors are major warped and/or have a deep dish on them, they cannot be turned.

New rotors are about the same price as getting them machined these days.

BMW rotors do have to be changed with pads along with the sensor when you trigger the light to come on, its common knowledge to people who repair cars on a regular basis. Yes, you could try machining a BMW rotor and you will end up have a paper thin disc by the time you are able to get it straight, it will just end up warping really easily, especially if living in HILLY Vancouver. If a mechanic is paid flat rate, he actually gains MORE money from selling you "machining rotors" than he would if he sold you new rotors (labour vs mark up on parts).

Honest mechanics are around, it's uneducated people who assumes that the world is out to rip them off that creates a negative stigma with in this trade or people who buy cars that they cannot really afford or maintain.

To the OP: Warranty is to WARRANT against manufacturers DEFECTS, if you had bought the car new from ACURA, Acura Canada wont cover you in your case because it isn't a defective part, the wires were never meant to withstand an ass chewing from rodents. You need to read in a dictionary what the term "warranty" means and also read the limitations on your specific warranty before you purchased it. As for the labour + parts, the labour could go up because of rusted bolts. If the shop was already in the middle of repairing your vehicle and ran into this problem, they aren't going to ask for authorization, a courtesy would be to notify you that labor charges are going up, but unless you would want them to stop repairing it, and return the car to you unfinished and be stuck with the labour costs up till then it can go up.

It is also your job to be an informed customer, ask what did he charge you specifically, with individual cost break downs.

Driving a car is a privilege and can costs a lot, your TL is reliable as long as you maintain it properly but sometimes SHIT HAPPENS, no vehicle is bullet proof, and when you drive a higher end luxury car, expect parts to cost more, and labour to cost more because the engines are bigger and more complex

usually but not always