Lyoness? scam? yay or nay?

[Graeme S]

While technically MLM is not a pyramid scheme, the structure is still extremely triangular. Structurally it is disadvantageous to enter anywhere except at the top, and it is essentially like swimming upstream unless you have a a series of people who will both buy into your program and your product(s).

Sure, "your success is entirely up to you", but the structure works against you. I remember when I was full of youth and asked "If these products are so good, how come people aren't selling them in stores?" To this I was told "We don't want to give an advantage to anyone who's already got money or a location--that would mean new people can't enter the market."

Sounds like a reasonable answer, except for the fact that you end up relying entirely on individual networking and you burn through a LOT of people that way. Like people have said, you basically have to sell your soul in order to make it work. I was told once by the man who would have been my "upline" (the guy above you in quixtar/amway speak),

The people who won't help you are not the kind of people you want to be spending your time with. If they won't help you succeed, they're just dragging you down.

This kind of attitude is not uncommon, and is to an extent quite cultish. The meetings which they encourage/pushy/insist/force you to attend are basically "hey guys, look at this guy who you've never met before who says he's successful somewhere else and has been doing this since the beginning, you could be like him!" and are giant circlejerks on sales techniques and pump-you-up motivational speeches.

>Don't be afraid to approach people at bus stops
>If you're standing somewhere and someone else is too, why not talk them up?
>You only know so many people--cold contacts are your best chance at success
>The people who really want it, work hard for it. Will you be one of those, or just another joe doing whatever you do now.



A lot of the stuff they do (while legal) is questionable in my mind. it's true, do what you want and if you think you can be successful hey--power to you. But if you want to work on your own with your expenses (including marketing) paid for out of your pocket, real estate might be a better choice. I mean, at least those guys don't have to meet you at a Timmy's with a buddy to try and recruit you.

[blee123]

just read this whole thread just now, I rmb someone from Usana health sciences tried to recruit me into joining this pyramid scheme. I rejected them in person but they still tried to invite me to dinner saying they will explain everything in detail to me.

anyone get recruited to Usana before? Are they still around doing the same thing?

[MTV Cribs]

My aunt joined that and then ended up signing my mom and uncle up. When I found out I told them to quite that shit. They company took $200 every month from my mom's credit card then sent her small bottles of vitamins. You can buy big bottles of the same vitamins at Costco for $50. Usana is big rip off

[JDMTrueLove]

When I look at this website, I see what could be a legit company which gets a percentage of money or shares in a company for merchanting online through social networking for the company, in this case this lloyness has 24,000 merchants and like 3,200 online merchants...


Basically what I'm trying to say is... Could someone shed some light on this for me? I do research and I will research it, but it's always nice to get someone's own words to. So what is a pyrmaid scheme, and what makes this website one?

Thanks guys

[DanHibiki]

my friend's rich uncle recruited my friends and I into a pyramid scheme when we were in first year. We didn't really know what they were at the time and his uncle offered to personally give us our money back if it doesn't work out.

needless to say it was a disaster trying to get people to join. Funniest part was when we got an e-mail from the company saying the CEO has gone missing LOL. AKA, ran to Hawaii with all our money lol. Ofcourse our friends uncle honored the agreement and paid us all back so we didn't lose anything.

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by JDMTrueLove

Basically what I'm trying to say is... Could someone shed some light on this for me? I do research and I will research it, but it's always nice to get someone's own words to. So what is a pyrmaid scheme, and what makes this website one?

Thanks guys

OK, a traditional pyramid scheme really has no product, the top guy is there to take the money and run and uses shills to help along the way to convince people to part with their cash. The whole thing is set up as a total, non legitimate business purposefully to defraud people.

A multi-level marketing system has a legit(want to quote that, but they do actually have a product, the legitimacy of which is debatable) product, sold through a marketing system of multiple layers in the shape of a pyramid.

People throw the word scheme in there, because its really, in my mind, just a more legit form of the old scam. Throw a legit product in there, and people will sign on that much faster. If your products were so good, you'd sell them in Wal-Mart. Multi-level marketing is NOT illegal. You can debate its morality though.

[Benz_05TSX]

I was recently approached by a Lynoess member randomly too, everything sounds good when he did the presentation. But really, the cash back is only 1% of the purchase from those big retailers. I am surprised Vivid Racing and Canadian Tire is part if this. But unless you make a big purchase, that 1% is nothing.

I have been approached by almost all these companies and know so much about them, I love going to presentations and question those people to try and break them down. I love the look on their faces when they have no answers to my questions.. lol.

But recently I went to another presentation (company name not mentioned), I found them VERY VERY Unethical. I was basically the ONLY university graduate there in a room full of high school kids and high school graduates. Their message sent that night was saying how going to post secondary is useless (which in some degree I do admit it's true) and instead of working at minimum wage or going to school, you should join one of these companies. In 3-5 years, you will be making 50k annual and if you work hard, you can make over 10k/month and even become a millionaire. Therefore, post-secondary education is useless, working as a regular joe is stupid, and you should start being smart and invest into a business. I was somewhat devastated after the presentation

[mas604]

Lately I've been hearing about World Wide Dreambuilders...it sound quite similar to the ones mentioned. Anyone know anything about them?

[GLOW]

nope but if a company has the word "dreambuilder" in it, i'd immediately be suspicious

[Gee.Tee.Ar]

Anybody have experiences with Primerica? Buddy of mine joined it and wants to have a "work related" meeting.

[Presto]

^^^

Tell him to quit before he loses all his friends because he's trying to recruit them.

[falcon]

Add "Empower Network" to this long list.

[falcon]

Originally Posted by blee123

just read this whole thread just now, I rmb someone from Usana health sciences tried to recruit me into joining this pyramid scheme. I rejected them in person but they still tried to invite me to dinner saying they will explain everything in detail to me.

anyone get recruited to Usana before? Are they still around doing the same thing?

My parents were actually pretty big into it from years ago, and still use the vitamins. They are VERY good vitamins. From the bunch of people they signed up years and years ago they still get cheques every month for a few hundred bucks.

[Graeme S]

Vitamins are vitamins are vitamins. Your body processes it exactly the same once it's in supplement form.

[TypeRNammer]

Monavie

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by Gee.Tee.Ar

Anybody have experiences with Primerica? Buddy of mine joined it and wants to have a "work related" meeting.

Never going to buy insurance from a barista/mechanic/farmer...so no. Plus, the meeting i went to...they are all losers. Like, i dont want to hang around with you type losets. Exploit maybe, but no xmas party.

[SkippyLang]

For anyone interested in going into the Amway business, here is my story:

Recently a friend of mine started recruiting me into the Amway business. Though the strategy they use now is that they don't want to affiliate themselves with Amway and always say that "Amway just provides us (IBO) with the products. I could care less about who they are." Perhaps they're doing this because they know Amway has a bad rep in most people's minds. World Wide Dreambuilders (WWBD) is the training program that IBO's take part in once they're in the business, where you get audio tapes, use a communication system called Kate (from communiKate) where IBO's send inspirational messages to each other with their uplines and are passed to crosslines.

I've been listening to various presentations and meetings, paid for a $70 dinner/banquet at the Hilton where a few Diamond couples and Platinums (basically people who are doing extremely well in the business) talked about their success, flaunting their riches. Some of the IBO's that are more relateable to many of the people at the banquet do make this opportunity seem very possible. One IBO that kept on being touted is 18 years old and is now making, supposedly, over $60,000 per year after being in the business for 2 years. The end message that they try to enforce is that Amway isn't a quick-rich scheme, but takes a lot of hard work, yet they say it only takes 15-20 hours of a week, and it takes commitment. They also talk say quite constantly that the business works, but if you fail, i.e. not get the results, it's due to you not working hard enough, putting enough effort in. There is not minimum amount of products you need to buy per month to keep yourself in the business, unlike Usana I think. If you can sell a load of products to others, you don't have to spend any yourself, but it's tough. The mentor who I was speaking to did just that, recently retired at 23 years old.

The way the business attracts people is of course the promises of riches and dreams, many of which you never thought about until they start talking about it and then you start to embed them into your thoughts. Over the past few months I've been wrangling whether to join or not join. Based on the responses on this thread and many others, it would be a resounding no. But seeing people my age (under 25) doing well, I keep thinking maybe I can do it too.

/rant

[tiger_handheld]

^ it works well...for the guy(s) who go int early. You met a diamond / platinum couple gross'ing 60k. Imagine what the founder is raking in while lounging in the pool. he/she is getting residual commission from shmuks like you who have to spend their own dime from their day job to meet the quota.

[Gridlock]

There was an article I read years ago about one of the platinums in amway or something about what really went on behind the scenes.

The short story was, he was flat ass broke.

Always had been, ever since he quit to do it full time. And, I believe it.

First, its super easy to pretend to be rich. It's called 'home equity' and 'credit'. Use one to secure the other, and spend it baby.

Second, he couldn't be successful in pulling others into his upline, without showing that he, himself was successful. And in the back of his head, he was hoping to pull enough in to dig out of the hole.

He declared and lost what was left.

NEVER, and I mean never believe the show that is put on in front of you. You pull the curtains back and you can have a sea of red ink, being driven around in a brand new car.

[Infiniti]

FHTM is another one..Someone I work with just tried to recruit me today. Before we met up he refused to elaborate at all about this so called "business proposition" he wanted to show me. We meet up and joining us is some guy who works for this FHTM company. Anyways he shows me this powerpoint presentation and spends a half hour explaining the business. Within the first minute of sitting down and hearing his first question "so would you like to make an extra bit of money?"...I knew I got duped into listening to one of these schmuck pyramid/MLM company pitches. I spent the rest of time anxiously awaiting the end of this waste of time.

Im now in the position where I want to either keep my mouth shut about this or bring it up to my co worker and tell him that he's entering no man's land with all this BS!

[El Bastardo]

Originally Posted by Infiniti

Im now in the position where I want to either keep my mouth shut about this or bring it up to my co worker and tell him that he's entering no man's land with all this BS!

"We work together so lets keep it civil. I don't want any part of this. But some food for thought: If these types of organizations were so successful don't you think Warren Buffet or Donald Trump would be investing in them all of the time? "

[Ronin]

I wouldn't do business with anyone that wears a pink shirt from the '70s.

[Gridlock]

So when do they pull the noobs aside and teach them the ways of duping friends and family?

Ok, here are the steps to getting meetings with your friends and family:

1. never ever tell them what the great biz opportunity is
2. amaze them with the promises of incredible wealth. Downplay the fact that you too, will be back at work on Monday
3. don't adlib...stick with script, "you simply create a down-line and build business intelligence throughout the non-pyramidal isocelian transferrance. Then you simply pick your final four, create an alliance and vote as a group to win survivor" See? explains itself.
4. answer questions with a pivot to talking points. The answer to any and all logic is either "freedom" or "wealth"
5. Do you own a white board? you need a white board. Shit's not cool until its on a white board.

[Stormspirit]

2-3 years ago, my friend brought some guy in a suit to Silver Tower Restaurant while i was eating and he put down a piece of paper and started drawing pyramids and telling me how me and my friends can earn huge bucks.

If u had such a good idea, why would u need the poor me to join in and pay to get these vitamins every month which I can sell or give away, but mainly I'm in it to recruit people to be under me so I can soak their cash just like how the recruiter would soak mine when I pay up.

Last week, I was invited to Lyoness seminar at Radisson Hotel. I had no idea it was lyoness and i didn't look it up before going in , i just thought it was a new business recruiting investors. I mean its free so why not go and see what's up?

Turns out they show us videos of how successful Lyoness is in Europe. Half of the video was bunch of Lyoness investors sitting in a GM place thingy in europe chanting and celebrating their success.

Then they introduced 2 Austria "millionaries" who has dat weird accent that u can barely tell what they're saying. The austria dude started drawing on the board more pyramid alikes, instead downwards, side ways. BTW, their target market is the 40s + . 8/10 people in there were 40+ . Easy to fool? I'm guessing.

Afterwards, I was really confused about all the math because it just wouldn't work out, but when we asked a couple questions about the whole money matrix behind it. The presentor just said " o don't worry about that part, the systems got it all covered." Then he proceeds to tell us , o yea I started last year and now I'm retiring next year. In the first month, out of 40 people, he sold 7 gold premiums . Each gold premium = 3.8k . Not sure if true.

I go home, google lyoness, first thing that comes up is scam. Many people who defended it in forums, youtube, etc.. from a year ago stopped posting.. either they went super balling that they don't care anymore or simply they lost their money in a ship hole.

BTW, to my friends who told me to join Usauna 2-3 years ago, where are they now?? I look them up on facebook, none of them driving ferraris or buying anything big. Don't think that went too well, maybe u can keep eating those vitamins LOL.

[KardsbyKeith]

I have signed up with Lyoness and I treat it like a shopping club.

I refuse to get involved in anything that can not be explained clearly to an 8 year old. If any system is so complicated that an 8 year old can not grasp the concept the chances are only a select few get any monetary rewards.

It is FREE to sign up, I get cash back into my bank account every week when I buy my groceries, go out to eat in restaurants, buy clothing, gifts for my wife, family and friends.

I get cash back when I buy gas for my car, take a vacation or travel for business.

Did I mention, it’s FREE. You do not need to spend or invest any money in Lyoness to get cash back.

Lyoness is fairly new in Canada, so right now… today we do not have a lot of merchants that give us cash back, but we are getting new ones every day. Some of our merchants include The Bay, Home Outfitters, Canadian Tire, Great Canadian Superstore, Earl’s, Milestones, Swiss Chalet, Montana’s, Petro-Canada, Budget Car Rental, Hotels.com, NitroLube, Radisson Hotels, RIU Hotels, Shopper’s Drugs.

The cash back to you varies merchant to merchant from about 2% to the highest I have seen is 8%.

You can shop on line or in person. If you are shopping in person you first need to buy the merchant’s gift cards from Lyoness, which is a learning curve, but you get the cash back into your bank account when you purchase the gift cards.

The fine print…..
…. Lyoness will only make a deposit to you bank account when you hit $10.00 in cash back.

…. When you sign up a friend…. for FREE… you get 0.5% of whatever they spend… when you friend signs up another friend for FREE… you also get 0.5% of what that friend spends.

…. It only goes that deep. You, all of you friends and all of your friends - friends. When your friends – friends sign their friends up…. again for FREE, you get nothing.

No one is going to get rich doing this; however if one chooses to sign up all their friends and encourages their friends to do the same and one chooses to leave all the cash back in their bank account… at the end of a year you may find enough cash to take a nice vacation.