Terrible car/motorcycle accident - Burrard and 2nd

[Kidnapman]

Originally Posted by Glove

new rider?
just got bike?
600?

Honda Shadow

[Gh0stRider]

rip

[124Y]

Sucks to hear. RIP

[boostfever]

Originally Posted by Jah Dean

I love how everyone starts assuming who's fault it is when they weren't there and have no eyewitness accounts to back up their theories. And imo it doesn't matter who's fault it was because two people lost their lives so let it be and let ICBC deal with it.

couldn't agree more. really sucks that two people died. i was thinking about this accident pretty much all day today. they cleared up the area around 3pm.

[Prolowtone]

Originally Posted by dangonay

Just found out a guy from work was on his 600 going to work right behind the other bike and saw the whole thing. Was with the police for a couple hours giving his statement. He's pretty shook up after what he saw. He's also a new rider and just got his bike. Other guys pushed his bike up to the shop as he couldn't ride.
Posted via RS Mobile

Yeah, I would find it hard to hop on a bike directly after that happening in front of me as well RIP.

[dangonay]

What I've noticed over the years is the difference in responses to kids dying smashing their high-end exotics, drunk drivers killing themselves or bike riders.

IMO it seems more often people want to give riders a "pass" when there's an accident and blame it on the "cager". We all know riding a bike is more dangerous and that people in other vehicles often change lanes or cut off riders because they don't pay attention.

Of all the motorcycle accidents (fatalities) I looked at with Transport Canada the majority of them were the faut of the rider, and the most common causes were excessive speed or failing to negotiate a turn (lots of riders, especially new ones, don't understand how to lean into a turn). Very often the two go together.

This is why I stated in my first post that I have a hard time giving sympathy. I've always taken the stance that if you do something grossly negligent and kill yourself, too bad. Who I feel sad for is the passenger, as it always seems to be the passengers that pay for the drivers stupidity.

[KO7]

Originally Posted by hopalong

I retired from riding 5 years ago. Too many close calls. Too many idiot drivers out there. For riders it doesn't matter if the accident is their fault or not, the rider will always come out in the losing end no matter what. RIP

+1
I couldn't face the risks day in and day out anymore. What sealed it for me was seeing two of my mentors (husband and wife, both very experienced) get into fatal accidents a year apart from each other. Her funeral was one of the last days I ever rode.

[Marco911]

Originally Posted by dangonay

I don't think they'll fault the BMW driver. I posted before about an accident where I changed lanes and was hit by a speeding car. Initially they assigned blame to me but later changed it to the speeding driver. I shoulder checked and the road was clear. I also looked in my mirror and there was another car but he was at least 10 car lengths behind. By the time I changed lanes he caught up to me. The reason I didn't get blamed is because it's unreasonable to expect a person to be able to judge the speed of an approaching car that could be going way over the limit. I checked and my lane was clear - the reason for the accident was the excessive speed of the other driver that caused him to close the gap faster than any reasonable person would expect.

A couple of things that I disagree with here:

1) Shoulder checking. With properly adjusted mirrors, (I don't see the side of my car) shoulder checking is unnecessary and dangerous. There is a lot that can happen in front of you for the time it takes you to do a shoulder check, and regain your reference points when you look forward once again.

2) I find the excuse that one should not be required to judge the closing speed of a vehicle to be lacking. That won't fly in Germany, where closing speeds could be extremely quick. If you change lanes into a faster vehicle in Germany, you would be found at fault.

[dn53]

looks like a cbr 929, anyone else think so? my guess is he was fucking flying. c'mon man early in the morning, with a passenger, in a totally busy area..

[broken_arrow]

RIP

A lot of bikers do drive too damn fast though... Just today, I was driving in the right lane in a 50 zone (going about 60) with a bike behind me. I turned into the left lane to overtake some slower moving cars (I was going about 65 at that point) and all of a sudden the biker started riding my ass like there is no tomorrow and revving. As I was about to overtake the last car and move back into the right lane (to let the biker pass), he decided to jump the right lane before me and went on to blow by me at 100+ (guesstimate) in a 50! WTF!? I almost merged into him when he jumped into the right lane. This kind of behaviour is irresponsible and dangerous and many bikers act in this way IMO.

Once again, I am not pointing fingers or making any accusations, just ranting to let off some steam...

[dangonay]

Originally Posted by Marco911

A couple of things that I disagree with here:

1) Shoulder checking. With properly adjusted mirrors, (I don't see the side of my car) shoulder checking is unnecessary and dangerous. There is a lot that can happen in front of you for the time it takes you to do a shoulder check, and regain your reference points when you look forward once again.

2) I find the excuse that one should not be required to judge the closing speed of a vehicle to be lacking. That won't fly in Germany, where closing speeds could be extremely quick. If you change lanes into a faster vehicle in Germany, you would be found at fault.

I ride and shoulder check because a bike can fit into a blind spot where a car would be easily visible with mirrors. If you are travelling around a curve or merging then the angle of the lane you're in compared to the lane you're moving to changes the size and location of your blind spot. Are you going to have continually adjusting mirrors to compensate for all driving conditions? Shoulder checking is not something I do every single time - like any good driver I adjust based on conditions and if in doubt I check.

The laws and driving habits in Germany are different than here, so they don't apply.

[xilley]

RIP.. =(

[vantrip]

RIP to the rider and passenger.

Unfortunately we have too many ghost-rider wanna be types driving way to fast, cutting in/out of traffic. Riders need to slow down a lot in this city.

[vafanculo]

Originally Posted by Marco911

A couple of things that I disagree with here:

1) Shoulder checking. With properly adjusted mirrors, (I don't see the side of my car) shoulder checking is unnecessary and dangerous. There is a lot that can happen in front of you for the time it takes you to do a shoulder check, and regain your reference points when you look forward once again.

2) I find the excuse that one should not be required to judge the closing speed of a vehicle to be lacking. That won't fly in Germany, where closing speeds could be extremely quick. If you change lanes into a faster vehicle in Germany, you would be found at fault.

1) Seriously? Shoulder checking is the most important thing, imo. You know how many times I've shoulder checked before changing lanes and said to myself 'glad I did that' as I see a car. Just the other day, some ass wipe hit me cause he merged into my lane without shoulder checking, and was going too slow (in relation to your number '2' point).

You can adjust your mirrors, sure. But that won't be 100 percent accurate as your shoulder check. Are you going to stop shoulder checking all together if you drive one of those cars that have blind spot sensors? People get too lazy on the road and rely on mirrors, and other gadgets when they don't have to.

2) I agree.
Posted via RS Mobile

[gripenM]

if you adjust your mirrors so that the side mirrors and rear view mirror
become a continuation/complete picture without overlapping,
you'll have eliminated blind spots,
by the time the car disappears in the mirrors,
it would be right beside you

Originally Posted by vafanculo

1) Seriously? Shoulder checking is the most important thing, imo. You know how many times I've shoulder checked before changing lanes and said to myself 'glad I did that' as I see a car. Just the other day, some ass wipe hit me cause he merged into my lane without shoulder checking, and was going too slow (in relation to your number '2' point).

You can adjust your mirrors, sure. But that won't be 100 percent accurate as your shoulder check. Are you going to stop shoulder checking all together if you drive one of those cars that have blind spot sensors? People get too lazy on the road and rely on mirrors, and other gadgets when they don't have to.

2) I agree.
Posted via RS Mobile

[aznkev03]

Originally Posted by gripenM

if you adjust your mirrors so that the side mirrors and rear view mirror
become a continuation/complete picture without overlapping,
you'll have eliminated blind spots,
by the time the car disappears in the mirrors,
it would be right beside you

I drive a fairly small car (civic) and have my mirrors adjusted in this way. While it works flawlessly with cars, you could easily still miss anything smaller (ped/cyclist/rider). I still shoulder check.

Shoulder checking should not take that much attention away from the road. It's just a quick glance at your blind spot, not a scan of the entire area beside/behind your car, as you can see those spots in your mirrors
Posted via RS Mobile

[FerrariEnzo]

When shoulder checking, your not turning your head a full 180degrees, if you are, then your doing it wrong.
Your eyes are also fully to the position that you intend to look at, so you head it is around 90degrees..

This action shouldnt take more then 2 secs... if it does, then you are doing something wrong..

Adjusting the mirrors would work on cars with a large horizontal side mirror.. some cars have a shorter horizontal side mirror..

Please get the small convex mirrors if you are lazy to shoulder check... Those are better then just the side mirrors themselves.

Originally Posted by Marco911

A couple of things that I disagree with here:

1) Shoulder checking. With properly adjusted mirrors, (I don't see the side of my car) shoulder checking is unnecessary and dangerous. There is a lot that can happen in front of you for the time it takes you to do a shoulder check, and regain your reference points when you look forward once again.

2) I find the excuse that one should not be required to judge the closing speed of a vehicle to be lacking. That won't fly in Germany, where closing speeds could be extremely quick. If you change lanes into a faster vehicle in Germany, you would be found at fault.

IF your saying that shoulder checking is dangerous, then how about those people who lean the hell forward to look in their side mirrors? Is that not dangerous, their eyes are of the road and focused on the side mirror..

I hate these people who does that.. they think they have room but its actually very tight.. I can see their ugly face in my view also..

[gripenM]

actually works quite well even with smaller mirrors such as these



and all it takes is a quick glance without moving your head,

but i still do turn my head 45 degrees to make sure no one's beside me
although i can still see out of the corner of my eye with my head straight forward

takes a little while to get used to having your mirrors angled outwards so much, but after a while, feels completely natural

Originally Posted by FerrariEnzo

When shoulder checking, your not turning your head a full 180degrees, if you are, then your doing it wrong.
Your eyes are also fully to the position that you intend to look at, so you head it is around 90degrees..

This action shouldnt take more then 2 secs... if it does, then you are doing something wrong..

Adjusting the mirrors would work on cars with a large horizontal side mirror.. some cars have a shorter horizontal side mirror..

Please get the small convex mirrors if you are lazy to shoulder check... Those are better then just the side mirrors themselves.




IF your saying that shoulder checking is dangerous, then how about those people who lean the hell forward to look in their side mirrors? Is that not dangerous, their eyes are of the road and focused on the side mirror..

I hate these people who does that.. they think they have room but its actually very tight.. I can see their ugly face in my view also..

[achiam]

Originally Posted by tofu1413

the bike was probably going quite fast... i mean that E31 7 series is a two ton monster...

Definitely. Even if the car was at fault and pulled out too fast, a bike going 50-65km/hr would not have demolished the side of the bimmer like that AND pushed it some distance. I'd guesstimate it was going faster than 80 or 90 KPH.

[Marco911]

Originally Posted by dangonay

I ride and shoulder check because a bike can fit into a blind spot where a car would be easily visible with mirrors. If you are travelling around a curve or merging then the angle of the lane you're in compared to the lane you're moving to changes the size and location of your blind spot. Are you going to have continually adjusting mirrors to compensate for all driving conditions? Shoulder checking is not something I do every single time - like any good driver I adjust based on conditions and if in doubt I check.

The laws and driving habits in Germany are different than here, so they don't apply.

Shoulder checking - I am going to reiterate my position that people who find they need to shoulder check because of blind spots do not have properly adjusted mirrors. Taking your eyes off the road to shoulder check is equivalent to taking your eyes off the road to glance at your phone. If you keep your eye on the side mirror, and move your head laterally toward the center of the car, you can get an even wider view, while STILL keeping a view of what is ahead of you. The only time I have been in an at-fault accident was over 15 years ago, and because I shoulder checked while changing lanes in a curve. The driver in the vehicle ahead of me was signalling and I assumed he was turning right at the next intersection. Instead he was signalling to turn into his driveway on a main street (Capilano Road). By the time I had looked forward, he had slowed down considerably vs. the speed of traffic in the lane. If I had only looked in my mirrors and kept my peripheral view on the traffic ahead of me, I would not have rear-ended him. I accepted fault and responsibility for that collision because I took my eyes off the road (to shoulder check!)

At 60 km/h, if it takes one second to shoulder-check, your vehicle has travelled about 4-5 car lengths, without you looking at the road. That's more than enough for you to miss seeing the vehicle in front of you slam on his brakes.

Changing lanes into a car travelling faster than you - I find the excuse that the laws and habits in Germany are different than here to be lacking. There is clearly a "best practice" approach to driving no matter where you are. The fact that you were not found at fault by ICBC does not mean one whit if your actions and decision to change lanes clearly contributed to the collision. You got away with it - fine, but don't tell me that you really don't think you made a driving error.

[dangonay]

^ I've never had an at fault accident in over 1,000,000 km's driven in my life. I've been shoulder checking since I was 14 when I got my learner's. Maybe the problem isn't shoulder checking, but doing it at an inappropriate time, which it appears is exactly what you did in your accident.

You're assuming much about my accident. It wasn't ICBC as I was living in Sask at the time. It also wasn't on the highway which is what you're implying by using Germany and high closing speeds in your example. It was a two lane road in the city with a 50 km/h speed limit. After measuring the skid marks from the other vehicle (luckily ABS wasn't common back then) and his impact with me it was determined he was going at least 100km/h and likely faster.

The bottom line is the insurance adjusters and the police came to the conclusion it was the other guys fault. That's two separate agencies that came to the same conclusion. The police charged him with dangerous driving and SGI found him liable for the accident.

Why are you trying to imply a case you know nothing about and was decided based on the evidence was somehow decided wrong?

[E.D.C.5]

RIP

[asr]

RIP

[!e.lo_]

I by chance got to talk to one of the paramedics that showed up to that scene.
He told me it was pretty bad. Then of other stories that were horrific. Be aware as a rider. Be safe.

RIP

[CP.AR]

Originally Posted by FerrariEnzo

When shoulder checking, your not turning your head a full 180degrees, if you are, then your doing it wrong.
Your eyes are also fully to the position that you intend to look at, so you head it is around 90degrees..

This action shouldnt take more then 2 secs... if it does, then you are doing something wrong..

Adjusting the mirrors would work on cars with a large horizontal side mirror.. some cars have a shorter horizontal side mirror..

Please get the small convex mirrors if you are lazy to shoulder check... Those are better then just the side mirrors themselves.




IF your saying that shoulder checking is dangerous, then how about those people who lean the hell forward to look in their side mirrors? Is that not dangerous, their eyes are of the road and focused on the side mirror..

I hate these people who does that.. they think they have room but its actually very tight.. I can see their ugly face in my view also..

This,
But those little mirrors are only SUPPLEMENTS to your on road situational awareness. ALWAYS shoulder check