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-   Vancouver Auto Chat (https://www.revscene.net/forums/vancouver-auto-chat_173/)
-   -   DOUBLE Fatal accident on Lions Gate Bridge (https://www.revscene.net/forums/677267-double-fatal-accident-lions-gate-bridge.html)

SumAznGuy 11-30-2012 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by canali (Post 8094929)
darthchilli, it's in the news the last few days....do google search
I think he means what exactly happened. How did they spin out when they should have been going in a straight line across the bridge.

XplicitLuder 11-30-2012 12:09 PM
Most likely hydroplaned?

And aren't they still trying to figure out if DUI had anything to do wit it? Been at work and dunno if they said it yet.
Considering I see a couple of "can't believe we just blazed" comments on my fb , maybe they were under the influence?
Posted via RS Mobile

vafanculo 11-30-2012 12:11 PM
How is that bridge a train wreck waiting to happen? Unless it was due to a human error where there was green lights facing both N/S bound, driving on that bridge is no different than driving on a highway.

Seriously. It's no ones fault but the driver of the car. They aren't lying when they say speed kills. Imagine if he was driving the speed limit.. My money is on that this thread wouldn't have been created.

I'm just glad it was a bus he slammed into, and not a van carrying a family.
Posted via RS Mobile

snails 11-30-2012 12:14 PM
SUV Hydroplane Wreck Caught on Tape Part 1 - YouTube

simple video of hydroplaning

Tim Budong 11-30-2012 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by canali (Post 8094929)
darthchilli, this tragedy has been in the news the last few days....see any of the local papers.
richmond now, van sun, province.

but don't blame it on the bridge ....

westopher is bang on.
"There is nothing confusing about it. Green means drive in that lane, yellow means get the fuck over, things are switching, flashing red means really get the fuck over right now, and red means stay the fuck out of this lane. Its the simplest concept in driving, and anyone who thinks its confusing shouldn't drive. Sorry to hear about the people involved. Its a stupid way to go, and thankfully more serious injuries and deaths weren't caused by such a massive collision."
i know what happened, i live by the bridge and i work with someone that knows them

Im curious what happens to the middle lane at night.

subordinate 11-30-2012 01:00 PM
I'm putting my money on that, this wasn't the only time they were driving under the influence. The driver was living on the edge IMO. Unfortunately, this was only a matter of time.

anti_rice 11-30-2012 01:41 PM
just want to add one more thing regarding the bridge and people wanting 'barriers'. The bridge is 50km/h just like any regular road in Greater Vancouver. There's no barriers on regular roads so why does a bridge need one? I just hate how drivers think as soon as they get onto a bridge the speed limit increases by 30km when in actuality it doesn't. Look at Oak st bridge. It's 60km/h, but when you get on it drivers automatically speed up to 80km+. This goes for all bridges in the lowermainland. Drivers need to treat a bridge just like a regular road. Are people afraid the bridge will collapse behind them if they don't get over fast enough?

vafanculo 11-30-2012 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anti_rice (Post 8095003)
just want to add one more thing regarding the bridge and people wanting 'barriers'. The bridge is 50km/h just like any regular road in Greater Vancouver. There's no barriers on regular roads so why does a bridge need one? I just hate how drivers think as soon as they get onto a bridge the speed limit increases by 30km when in actuality it doesn't. Look at Oak st bridge. It's 60km/h, but when you get on it drivers automatically speed up to 80km+. This goes for all bridges in the lowermainland. Drivers need to treat a bridge just like a regular road. Are people afraid the bridge will collapse behind them if they don't get over fast enough?
Its because they know there's no room for a speedtrap mid bridge
Posted via RS Mobile

4444 11-30-2012 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anti_rice (Post 8095003)
just want to add one more thing regarding the bridge and people wanting 'barriers'. The bridge is 50km/h just like any regular road in Greater Vancouver. There's no barriers on regular roads so why does a bridge need one? I just hate how drivers think as soon as they get onto a bridge the speed limit increases by 30km when in actuality it doesn't. Look at Oak st bridge. It's 60km/h, but when you get on it drivers automatically speed up to 80km+. This goes for all bridges in the lowermainland. Drivers need to treat a bridge just like a regular road. Are people afraid the bridge will collapse behind them if they don't get over fast enough?
but it's not a regular road, regular roads have traffic lights and intersections, the lions gate is an extremely straight road with no stops in it, so 80km/h is a totally reasonable speed to go over it at

80km/h is only 50mph for fuck's sake - hardly high speed (consider that the rest of the world drives at 50mph on many non motorway roads)

InvisibleSoul 11-30-2012 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgill (Post 8094058)
Those new West Van buses just went into service within the last month or so, looks like they did their job protecting the driver. RIP to those involved, but thankful no one else was killed.
I think probably even if it was a 1960's bus, the bus driver would be fine.

inv4zn 11-30-2012 02:11 PM
^I'm pretty sure any vehicle from the 1960's would not be ok.

imp_squared 11-30-2012 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4444 (Post 8095011)
but it's not a regular road, regular roads have traffic lights and intersections, the lions gate is an extremely straight road with no stops in it, so 80km/h is a totally reasonable speed to go over it at

80km/h is only 50mph for fuck's sake - hardly high speed (consider that the rest of the world drives at 50mph on many non motorway roads)
you are an idiot!! It is not how fast you can go on the road. It is the amount of time and distance needed to stop your car going at 80km/h!!

Stopping distances for cars - Road Safety Authority Rules of the Road

twitchyzero 11-30-2012 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRDood (Post 8094743)
Interesting... :suspicious:

City of Richmond BC - RCMP News Releases

If the article referenced Jowin Lau is the same person. And he is a drug trafficker... Well :fuckthatshit:
Posted via RS Mobile
Quote:
Originally Posted by jc95 (Post 8094744)
yeah should be him
he was 18 at the time (dec 2009) and now is 2012 so 21.
RIP Skinny Pete & Badger

InvisibleSoul 11-30-2012 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by inv4zn (Post 8095031)
^I'm pretty sure any vehicle from the 1960's would not be ok.

Vw Bus Crash Test - YouTube
This comparison is wrong on so many levels that I hardly know where to begin.

1.) VW Bus is not a real bus
2.) Hitting a wall is not even close to the same as hitting a car

What I was getting at is that a small car should basically bounce off a big bus because of the huge difference in momentum. Even in a much older bus with far fewer safety measures, just from that fact alone, I think the bus driver would be okay.

anti_rice 11-30-2012 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4444 (Post 8095011)
but it's not a regular road, regular roads have traffic lights and intersections, the lions gate is an extremely straight road with no stops in it, so 80km/h is a totally reasonable speed to go over it at

80km/h is only 50mph for fuck's sake - hardly high speed (consider that the rest of the world drives at 50mph on many non motorway roads)
First of all there's no reason to compare this city's roadways to others. you have to factor in the lane width, blind corners and hills etc.

secondly if you look at roads that are over 70km/h there are barriers or island seperating traffic. eg: marine dr east of boundary. Marine dr just outside UBC. etc. yes people can go 80km/h but the bridge wasn't design or engineered for people to be travelling that fast. It is not reasonable speed and hence what happened on wednesday night. The city doesn't just randomly put up speed signs with 50km/h on it because they ran out of 80km/h ones. They spend hundreds and thousands of dollars to calculate what's a safe speed.
School zones are 30km.h and they are straight roads. why don't u go speed thru at 60km cuz to me it seems like u think it sounds reasonable right?

JaeF 11-30-2012 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil@rise (Post 8094821)
I see the majority of you understand or see the point I'm trying to convey and a good portion of you question my timing as a matter of respect decorum etc.
When is a good time to have a hard nosed approach on the subject? In a week or two when people have calmed down almost forgotten and the bodys are in the ground?
Some of you may think that a better approach but the best way to make an impact and in this case get these guys to slow down is to shock them with reality while its fresh, very fresh.
Its very apparent to me after reading this whole thread just how many associate and make what they believe valid excuses for this type of disregard for personal and public safety. "Its a new car rip it up" or "its a new car they handle well". Hence my approach.
If my asshole bluntness can get thru to one person then I've done my due diligence. I think I've gotten thru to a few more then one.
These two were idiots for endangering the lives of dozens of people. The fact they payed the ultimate price does not change that fact.
The words that come out of your mouth are foul. One mistake does not reflect the person in whole, accidents happen. Of course you can say they're idiots, since you don't know them. Their deaths are meaningless to you. However, no one here is asking for your "asshole bluntness". If you want to teach the ignorant then please do so on another thread. Talking about it here and using two people that recently passed as your example, well personally I think it is uncalled for.

4444 11-30-2012 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anti_rice (Post 8095048)
First of all there's no reason to compare this city's roadways to others. you have to factor in the lane width, blind corners and hills etc.

secondly if you look at roads that are over 70km/h there are barriers or island seperating traffic. eg: marine dr east of boundary. Marine dr just outside UBC. etc. yes people can go 80km/h but the bridge wasn't design or engineered for people to be travelling that fast. It is not reasonable speed and hence what happened on wednesday night. The city doesn't just randomly put up speed signs with 50km/h on it because they ran out of 80km/h ones. They spend hundreds and thousands of dollars to calculate what's a safe speed.
School zones are 30km.h and they are straight roads. why don't u go speed thru at 60km cuz to me it seems like u think it sounds reasonable right?
comparing a school zone to a bridge with zero intersections or pedestrians (they are separated) is just so stupid it doesn't deserve comment.

and comparing to other cities is totally reasonable, you probably think vancouver is the bee's knees, but from an infrastructure standpoint, vancouver is absolute junk

4444 11-30-2012 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by imp_squared (Post 8095039)
you are an idiot!! It is not how fast you can go on the road. It is the amount of time and distance needed to stop your car going at 80km/h!!

Stopping distances for cars - Road Safety Authority Rules of the Road
name calling - mature

and you have just proven my point - given that there are no intersections on the bridge, and with everyone going at approx 80km/h, you're just hunky dory - if you're on a road with pedestrians, intersections, etc. you would need to stop quickly (hence a lower speed limit), on a completely straight road with no possibility of interaction with anything other than the traffic in front of you would warrant a higher speed limit

FerrariEnzo 11-30-2012 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4444 (Post 8095011)
but it's not a regular road, regular roads have traffic lights and intersections, the lions gate is an extremely straight road with no stops in it, so 80km/h is a totally reasonable speed to go over it at

80km/h is only 50mph for fuck's sake - hardly high speed (consider that the rest of the world drives at 50mph on many non motorway roads)
that dumb... speeding is speeding.. just because its a straight road doesnt mean you need to speed... thats call being careless


Quote:
Originally Posted by 4444 (Post 8095060)
name calling - mature

and you have just proven my point - given that there are no intersections on the bridge, and with everyone going at approx 80km/h, you're just hunky dory - if you're on a road with pedestrians, intersections, etc. you would need to stop quickly (hence a lower speed limit), on a completely straight road with no possibility of interaction with anything other than the traffic in front of you would warrant a higher speed limit
There are ONCOMING traffic to account for... you need to beable to react if someone else is a bad driver.... 2 cars speeding on the bridge, one losses control... both are in trouble because the time needed to slowed and react...
In the heat of the moment, most normal drivers do not react fast enough..

inv4zn 11-30-2012 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InvisibleSoul (Post 8095046)
This comparison is wrong on so many levels that I hardly know where to begin.

1.) VW Bus is not a real bus
2.) Hitting a wall is not even close to the same as hitting a car

What I was getting at is that a small car should basically bounce off a big bus because of the huge difference in momentum. Even in a much older bus with far fewer safety measures, just from that fact alone, I think the bus driver would be okay.
It was meant to be taken humorously, and not a direct comparison :okay:

A bus is basically a box, and the A pillars on a bus - especially one from the 60's, and even today - are weak, as they are structual columns. It would actually fare better hitting a wall, then the front end of a car, which is for all intents and purposes, pointy.

It's not all to do with momentum, as momentum is just speed times weight. So even if the bus is twice as heavy, if the car is going twice the speed, they carry equal momentum. Add that to structural rigidity and every other real-world physics aspect, and the bus driver is actually quite lucky. From the pictures it looks like the car struck the left side of the bus, which was extremely lucky.

Had it been a head-on collision, the bus driver would most likely be far worse off.

But that's not really the point, is it lol :concentrate:

racerman88 11-30-2012 03:03 PM
RIP to the victims.
It's a reminder for us to slow down given the weather conditions.

InvisibleSoul 11-30-2012 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by inv4zn (Post 8095065)
A bus is basically a box, and the A pillars on a bus - especially one from the 60's, and even today - are weak, as they are structual columns. It would actually fare better hitting a wall, then the front end of a car, which is for all intents and purposes, pointy.
If the car had no give just like the wall, then I would agree.

Quote:
It's not all to do with momentum, as momentum is just speed times weight. So even if the bus is twice as heavy, if the car is going twice the speed, they carry equal momentum. Add that to structural rigidity and every other real-world physics aspect, and the bus driver is actually quite lucky. From the pictures it looks like the car struck the left side of the bus, which was extremely lucky.
Yes, I know momentum is mass times velocity. The problem is the bus is not just twice as heavy. I think the bus in the crash is a Nova LFS, and the weight is over 40000lbs. Add the 15 people on the bus, and you're looking at about 42000lbs. The Mazda6 weighs 3600lbs, and with the two guys, say 3900lbs. That means the bus had more than 10x the mass. Even if the car was going twice the speed of the bus, the bus still has more than 5x the momentum of the car.

I still like the chances of the driver of a 1960s bus being fine in this collision.

dvst8 11-30-2012 03:15 PM
Tragic ending for these young guys. So much more life to live. My condolences to the families and friends. Times will be tough.

I agree with Phil@Rise for the most part but I don't think they are idiots. They did make a young 'idiot' mistake (new ride, lifes good, must go fast!). We all did. I know this might be harsh but if they made it out of this accident, I am pretty sure they would also agree with Phil and would be apologizing to everyone involved in this situation especially their parents. Life is full of lessons. Learn from it before its too late. Drive safe everyone

wstce92 11-30-2012 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthchilli (Post 8094961)
i know what happened, i live by the bridge and i work with someone that knows them

Im curious what happens to the middle lane at night.
I live downtown, but my parents live in West Van, so lots of experience with the Lions Gate.
At night, sometimes they have the middle lane unused, sometimes arbitrarily (it seems) assigned to north bound or south bound.
It blows when they have the middle lane unused, cause you always have some asshole going 20km/hr and a bunch of stupider assholes overtaking with the middle.

Hondaracer 11-30-2012 04:03 PM
any smart driver driving lions gate at night empty or not, regardless of the middle lane configuration would be hugging the outer lane, it's common sense that most in Vancouver dont have.


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