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12-17-2012, 12:03 PM
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#1 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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| Hybrid buses get worse fuel efficiency than conventional diesel buses.
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12-17-2012, 12:12 PM
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#2 | | Wanna have a threesome?
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It doesn't say anywhere in the article the hybrid buses have poorer fuel efficiency than diesel buses.
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12-17-2012, 12:14 PM
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#3 | | Zionism gets my shell hard and slimy
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Originally Posted by MindBomber  It doesn't say anywhere in the article the hybrid buses have poorer fuel efficiency than diesel buses. | Four years after buying more than 170 hybrid buses, each costing more than regular diesel buses
"There is no doubt that they have been underperforming. We thought we'd get a lot more fuel efficiency out of these hybrid
i think thats what they meant... the gains arnt worth the price.
but i get what you mean, this title is misleading
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12-17-2012, 12:52 PM
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#4 | | I subscribe to the Fight Club ONLY
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I'm willing to bet that part of the "problem" here has to do with the much more extreme temperatures in Ottawa and Toronto.. Regardless of the underlying technology, batteries do not do well in the cold and under high temperatures. And in Ontario, there is plenty of those more extreme temperatures.
Also, from the sound of it, it seems like some of their hybrid buses were running on the expressways and stuff. As we all know, hybrids tend to do best under stop and go traffic conditions.
In Metro Vancouver, these hybrid buses could still work very well. Naturally (from what I understand), our trolleybuses are even more efficient and cleaner than the hybrid buses.
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12-17-2012, 01:17 PM
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#5 | | RS.net, helping ugly ppl have sex since 2001
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Yeah, nowhere in the article says "hybrid buses get worse fuel efficiency than conventional diesel buses". It simply says that the hybrid buses are underperforming and the maintenance on hybrid buses will be more costly than diesel buses. So they are considering converting them to diesel buses since that is more financially efficient.
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12-17-2012, 03:24 PM
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#6 | | I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
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i think timpo came to that conclusion because the city has ended up spending $1million more than they previously had on diesel fuel costs Quote:
Each hybrid bus costs anywhere from $100,000 to $150,000 more than regular diesel buses. The city made the investment because it hoped to save on fuel costs.
Instead, the city spent $1 million more on diesel fuel than it expected to last year, Deans said. It also cost more than $7 million to replace the batteries on some hybrid buses last year.
In light of the underperformance, the city's draft budget for 2013 includes $550,000 for a pilot project to rip out the hybrid electric/diesel engines and replace them with regular diesel engines.
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12-17-2012, 03:35 PM
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#7 | | Captain Happy Bubble is my Homeboy
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Hybrid bus is a lot like a hybrid car, you really have to be doing a serious amount of driving to offset the premium price tag, nonetheless they should do a few trial of this bus in lower mainland, the newer diesel busses are fine but the old one's are crazy noisy
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12-17-2012, 04:51 PM
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#8 | | Performance Moderator
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LOL what did they expect? Even hybrid cars are a waste of time from both angles. People who buy them wanting to save money on gas are operating on the false rationale that they are saving a few hundred bucks a year on gas by spending tens of thousands of dollars on something (nevermind taxes and delivery charges).............. and people who do it for the environment aren't understanding all the materials to build the car came from the same place as every other car plus they'll be dumping like 40kg of lithium batteries somewhere within the next 10 years.
You're spending more money to save money and polluting in a different way... plus you get a shitty looking slow-ass car as a result. Lose-Lose.
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12-17-2012, 05:04 PM
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#9 | | OMGWTFBBQ is a common word I say everyday
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Originally Posted by 68style LOL what did they expect? Even hybrid cars are a waste of time from both angles. People who buy them wanting to save money on gas are operating on the false rationale that they are saving a few hundred bucks a year on gas by spending tens of thousands of dollars on something (nevermind taxes and delivery charges).............. and people who do it for the environment aren't understanding all the materials to build the car came from the same place as every other car plus they'll be dumping like 40kg of lithium batteries somewhere within the next 10 years.
You're spending more money to save money and polluting in a different way... plus you get a shitty looking slow-ass car as a result. Lose-Lose. | This, EXACTLY. If you're so worried about gas mileage and the environment, Buy one of those Jetta TDI's which gets like 50 million KM's to the tank!
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12-17-2012, 05:25 PM
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#10 | | Better safe than Surrey
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Having "Hybrid Powered" on the side of a commercial vehicle is just a PR stunt used by corporations.
OCT were very misinformed if they intend to be saving money by purchasing a Hybrid. Our spec team was told from the manufacture (International) that "Hybrids cost more, way more, than the potential cost savings."
Ask Coke how their Frieghtliner Hybrids are...
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Last edited by OTG-ZR2; 12-17-2012 at 05:31 PM.
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12-17-2012, 07:27 PM
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#11 | | Wanna have a threesome?
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Originally Posted by StylinRed i think timpo came to that conclusion because the city has ended up spending $1million more than they previously had on diesel fuel costs | No, the city did not spend $1 million more on fuel than in previous budgets.
The city spent $1 million dollars more than expected on fuel.
The fuel costs were higher than expected because the fleet primarily operates outside of optimal conditions for a hybrid, and thus the diesel engines are running continuously. The issue here isn't the buses being hybrids, it's the OTC making poor purchasing decisions for the type of routes they run. Quote:
Originally Posted by OTG-ZR2 Having "Hybrid Powered" on the side of a commercial vehicle is just a PR stunt used by corporations.
OCT were very misinformed if they intend to be saving money by purchasing a Hybrid. Our spec team was told from the manufacture (International) that "Hybrids cost more, way more, than the potential cost savings."
Ask Coke how their Frieghtliner Hybrids are... | The article demonstrates that optimal conditions are needed for a hybird commerical vehicle to be economically viable, not that it's impossible for one to be.
A bus operating at low speed, stopping constantly, may very well meet those optimal conditions. If OTC was misinformed, so was Translink, because they're also considering converting a portion of the fleet to hybrids for potential fuel savings.
Last edited by MindBomber; 12-17-2012 at 07:39 PM.
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12-17-2012, 11:20 PM
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#12 | | Rs has made me the woman i am today!
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A lot of Translink's newer buses have "Hybrid" stickers on the window next to the front doors? How much hybrid are these?
I remember a few years.... well quite a few years ago now, Translink was running some trial buses that ran on alternative fuels like LPG, natural gas, fuel cell, hybrid, etc. They had these wild colour schemes on them. What happened to those projects?
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12-18-2012, 12:40 AM
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#13 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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ohh ok i actually completely misunderstood...for some reason i thought the hybrid bus was getting worse gas mileage than diesel bus.
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12-18-2012, 01:48 AM
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#14 | | I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
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instead of spending money to convert these, why don't they just trade them for diesel buses with places more suitable for hybrid technology, ie Vancouver. Now there's a thought
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12-18-2012, 08:47 AM
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#15 | | Banned By Establishment
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by OTG-ZR2
Ask Coke how their Frieghtliner Hybrids are...
| Whats the story there?
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12-18-2012, 10:28 AM
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#16 | | Better safe than Surrey
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There heavy, slow, and the hybrid only kicks in when they are in downtown core or shuffling around the yard. Driving anywhere in the GVRD from their Coquitlam plant they are just your regular diesel truck with allot more wiring and a cool hybrid decal on the door.
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12-18-2012, 02:35 PM
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#17 | | I am Hook'd on RS
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by 68style LOL what did they expect? Even hybrid cars are a waste of time from both angles. People who buy them wanting to save money on gas are operating on the false rationale that they are saving a few hundred bucks a year on gas by spending tens of thousands of dollars on something (nevermind taxes and delivery charges).............. and people who do it for the environment aren't understanding all the materials to build the car came from the same place as every other car plus they'll be dumping like 40kg of lithium batteries somewhere within the next 10 years.
You're spending more money to save money and polluting in a different way... plus you get a shitty looking slow-ass car as a result. Lose-Lose. | Don't forget all the weight of the batteries and motors negates most of the fuel savings they supposedly would provide. This would be especially true on a bus - something that weighs tens of thousands of pounds to begin with would need a massive battery + motor system just to get it moving. I would guess that's why they get worse mileage - the battery discharges faster than it can be charged and it and the motor become dead weight.
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12-18-2012, 07:11 PM
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#18 | | Rs has made me the woman i am today!
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I've spoken to a bus driver before regarding the performance of the hybrid NFI D60s vs the traditional Cummins powered D60s.
The bus driver mentioned that the hybrid buses are a pain to drive because they simply don't have any "oomph" in comparison to their diesel counterparts, causing the drivers to always have their foot flat on the accelerator.
Though, regardless of which bus it seems like their left foot is always slammed down on the gas 
EDIT: correction - right foot 
Last edited by Akinari; 12-18-2012 at 07:25 PM.
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12-18-2012, 07:15 PM
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#19 | | Head Moderator
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...left foot on the gas...?  | |
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12-18-2012, 07:25 PM
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#20 | | Rs has made me the woman i am today!
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Originally Posted by Lomac ...left foot on the gas...? | lol, I thought something looked off | |
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12-18-2012, 08:51 PM
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#21 | | Prince of the Apes
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hybrid vehicles are NOT here to stay.. buying one is just a waste of money because it costs less to buy another then it does to get new batteries after they die. They shouldn't even be here to begin with.
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12-18-2012, 08:59 PM
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#22 | | Hacked RS to become a mod
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Originally Posted by vantrip Hybrid bus is a lot like a hybrid car, it's just a marketing scheme to get guilt ridden people to spend way more than they should on something, because they think they are doing the world a favour. | Fixed
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12-18-2012, 09:10 PM
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#23 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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Originally Posted by bloodmack hybrid vehicles are NOT here to stay.. buying one is just a waste of money because it costs less to buy another then it does to get new batteries after they die. They shouldn't even be here to begin with. | Porsche and Honda must be idiots then making the new 918 and the new NSX
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12-18-2012, 11:11 PM
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#24 | | Rs has made me the woman i am today!
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Originally Posted by twitchyzero Porsche and Honda must be idiots then making the new 918 and the new NSX | I'm sure the 918 and NSX will be significantly more advanced than say, a simple Prius, because if they weren't, I'd be worried.
Doesn't the NSX run on a more electric-based system anyway? Four motors, one at each wheel was it? Some kind of electric assisted AWD crossover system of sorts.
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12-18-2012, 11:59 PM
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#25 | | The Lone Wanderator
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IIRC translink was doing research on Hybrid and CNG busses and had purchased a limited number of each. If I remember correctly, they determined that CNG may be worth it, but Hybrids wouldn't.
I still don't understand why Translink doesn't start phasing out the trolleybusses. I get the nostalgia value and all that jazz, but with the additional maintenance costs for the busses, lines and all that jazz, I don't see why it wouldn't be cheaper to move everyone to diesel.
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